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Thread: TSP board to limit interfund transfers

  1. #13

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Faustus View Post
    Oh, for the love of Mike (Causey). I agree, they are pushing the L-funds. I simply cannot believe it costs that much to shift funds around when it is all being performed by computer.
    Agree. If the L Funds rebalance daily (I'm assuming they do), then how do they justify the expenses associated these funds, e.g., what is the difference between our changing our TSP allocations and the rebalancing of the L funds?

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  3. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    canonsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    207

    Wink Re: TSP board to limit interfund transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by FUTURESTRADER View Post
    well..I was planning on maxing out a loan and dumping it into selling s&p options anyway...3.5% a month the past 6 months, and don't worry about it every day. Thank you TSP board
    i love it---go futurestrader we must stay a step ahead

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  5. #15

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Any lawyers? What's our recourse here....?

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  7. #16

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by presskh View Post
    Agree. If the L Funds rebalance daily (I'm assuming they do), then how do they justify the expenses associated these funds, e.g., what is the difference between our changing our TSP allocations and the rebalancing of the L funds?

    This is THE salient question!

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  9. #17

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Crass action deserves class action.

    Who's in?....I'm calling EAP for my free legal advice...wooT!

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  11. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Occoquan, VA
    Posts
    2,423

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Very unfortunate, this! No surprise it's mostly I transactions when that's the only fund out there that's made more than 7 percent earnings, this year, and that includes the L funds. L funds were invented to avoid the lost money in the as happend in the 2000-2002 account fiascos, however I would point out that the current L funds have not been in effect during a downturn, until now. How can we trust such a new system as the L's? They did well in the upturn, yes, but that's not the time our accounts need help.

    The other choice is trying to do it yourself, with you in the driver's seat, and in this time of roller coaster markets, that means lots of corrections. Again during the 2000-2002 fiasco, if I remember, we were very limited in how many times we could change our IFT's and that was one of the reasons a lot of people lost their shirts.

    So we are talking about trying to turn the coaster 2X a month and hope you did the second one right, or use a L fund that we haven't seen work during a downturn. I"m sure the L funds have been tested using past trends, but I haven't seen the data so I'm leery.
    "All the prophets of Doom, Can always find room, In a world full of worry and fear..." - Protest Song, Monty Python


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  13. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Almost Heaven
    Posts
    1,939

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Those L funds are just a retirement horizon based allocation. They don't do anything special for an upturn nor a downturn. They don't do anything for capital preservation nor do they do anything for gain. They simply rebalance EVERY DAY (rebalancing = day-trading, no?) you get closer to 2010, 2020, 2030, 2040. They are not reactive, they simply do what they do regardless of what the markets are doing.

    If I am wrong, someone please correct me -- I'm never offended trust me!

    Twice a month??? Let's see... the trading curbs are removed on the exchanges now and yet we are gonna try and get the most for our retirement (since they sold the old system down the river long before I became a fed) based on two guesses a month?

    More ranting to come --- I'm just more than a little ticked off right now to actually be hearing more about this. We should ask the TSP board for the balance sheets right now!!!
    Which one of you nuts has got any guts? -- Randle P. McMurphy
    ... stupidity will always find a way. -- Nnuut

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  15. #20

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    6,999

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemEng View Post

    The board overseeing the Thrift Savings Plan is taking aim at day traders by restricting the ability of plan participants to shift money between funds to only twice a month.
    ...3,000 of the 3.8 million TSP enrollees are frequently shifting billions of dollars from plan to plan, sometimes on a daily basis.

    Board chairman Andrew Saul said the practice amounts to day trading. The board said the excessive transfers are hurting TSP by driving up transaction expenses from $2.2 million in 2004 to more than $15 million in 2006.

    ...
    Chief Investment Officer Tracey Ray said the problem has grown in recent years and is getting worse. Investors traded nearly twice as much money during the first 10 months of 2007 as was traded in all of 2006, she said.

    For example, Ray said on Oct. 19, about 2,000 participants moved $295 million into the I Fund’s international stocks. Those 2,000 participants then shifted their money out of the I Fund five days later. Most of the daily trading involves the I Fund, Ray said.
    Wait a second....3,000 into 3.8 million = .07% of investors using TSP on a daily basis. But that percentage of account holders caused 13 million dollars in trade costs increases?

    3,000 traders are moving 2 billion dollars (from the plural "billions" in the article) are moved almost daily? One question I have is which ones of you guys are doing this for fun? I have no where near that kind of money to influence that much volume.

    And now I have to ask, who negotiated a contract where trading increases at that level? I figured we were getting a fair transaction price from Barclay's? I cannot see the numbers adding up here. Some people on this site must be making millions.

    This is sheer craziness. I want representation on this matter. Are we kidding ourselves? Our money our rights. I say we start a movement, "the .07%" ers! I call to the PEOPLE! I CALL TO THE INVESTOR! I CALL TO YOU!
    THIS IS WHERE I WOULD PUT SOMETHING TO REPRESENT MY THINKING, BUT THEN THEY SHOW UP!
    Tracker =
    Check my position

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  17. #21

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    I know some have disagreed, but I keep saying they should charge a small fee per transaction. Don't tie our hands behind our backs. Charge a fee and let us do what we do.

    The amounts they are talking about are such a miniscule percentage but they are using the dollar figures to make it look shocking. Fees went from 2.2 million to 15 million? How much has the total TSP balance grown in that time?
    Tom
    Market Commentary | My Blog | TSP Talk Plus | |

    I am not a Registered Investment Advisor and this is not investment advice. Please do your own due diligence.

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  19. #22

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    rockville, md
    Posts
    1,667

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    $2 billion/ 3,000 accounts is $66,666 avg account size. That's reasonable

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  21. #23

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    $2,000,000,000/3,000 = $666,666 not $66,000

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  23. #24

    Default Re: TSP board limits frequent fund transfers

    The board said the excessive transfers are hurting TSP by driving up transaction expenses from $2.2 million in 2004 to more than $15 million in 2006.
    3.8 million TSP enrollees
    $15 million to serve 3 million people for a year?! This is a problem? That's $5 dollars a year per person. That's an incredibly cheap service they want to take from us.

    $666k average, I see I have some catching up to do. I would like to see some details backing these numbers up, they seem to be pulled out of the, umm, ahhhh, air.

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