The Sandbox

[James48843]

Hello.

We're working behind the scenes to create a new website and a new organization.

The organization will be a real, organized, nationwide group to lobby for, and support, the rights of TSP shareholders.

It's independent of what agency you work for.

It's independent of what grade or pay system you are in, whether you are represented by an existing union, or not represented at all.

It's ONLY for those who are TSP Shareholders, and it will become a voice for TSP Shareholders everywhere. All 3.8 million of them.

Imagine this-

A nationwide cyber organization that can make ten thousand phones ring in the TSP Board's office in one day. To tell them not to change the TSP trading limits.


And a nationwide cyber organization to conduct real-time, on-line polls, to ask TSP members WHAT THEY THINK about proposals BEFORE they are adopted by the board.


And a nationwide "think tank" to discuss different ideas on how to make the TSP work better for ALL of us, collaborating on-line, discussing pros and cons, coming to consensus, and voting, and be able to bring new ideas directly to the board that decides, and present to them OUR ideas on making things work better.

THAT is democracy, folks.

The power of one, magnified by the number of people who participate in the TSP (Estimated 3.8 million).

And we need your help to do this.

First, we have reserved a web domain name, and are working on setting it up now. It will be up within a few days.

But we need help.

Can you create internet .gif graphics?

Can you help edit into proper english some writing?

Are you talented in helping streamline and editing documents, so they are clearer and make more sense?

Are you a good "people person", who can help get the word out on something new JUST for TSP Shareholders?

Are you good at managing e-mail lists to help us get the word out?

An Organizer?

A rabelrouzer?

(Can you be the spelling police? )



Then we need you.



Here is how I see it:

This can be a sandbox thread to help create some of the inital data for the website. We can jointly collaborate on this thread, and then refine the ideas. then, when we've got a good product- with consensus, we are ready to move it to the new site, distribute the workload among a number of founding members, and we can build something. Something big. Something really, really important to the futures of a LOT of people.

Anybody willing to help?

[James48843]

TSP today issued a new web page with FAQ's about trading restrictions.

http://tsp.gov/faq/faq14.html

Take a look, and post, in this thread, challenges to the information they are publishing.

Let's take a close look at what they are saying, and then, ONE FACT AT A TIME, develop a counter to their arguments.

Clip and paste in this thread, the items you think do not match up to the facts they have published elsewhere.

The goal is to get the information out here, and collaborate on a response. We're going to develop a counter-punch in the information war.

We hold the high ground- we are morally right. Remember, 83% of Federal Employees in the poll do NOT want trading restricted.

Fees, maybe. But not restrictions.

We need FACTS to win over hearts and minds.

But we need eveyone's brain power to collaborate on this.

Please help. Just pick one line out, mull it over, then give us data, hard data, that counters what they are putting out.

[James48843]

Note: We have learned that TSP Thrift Board Chair Greg Long is a member of TSPTALK, and is watching everything here, and has been for some time.

Greg, first of all, Welcome.

Secondly, sir, let's talk.

Will you please PM me, because I would like to call and talk to you about a number of alternatives that we have worked up that would provide the same needs you have, but also protect our member's needs. I've left you a voice mail on your work phone, giving you my cell and my home phone number, and I would like to speak with you. PM me, and I'll give you the numbers via PM.

Thanks

[James48843]

Here is what RAE found in his first review of the TSP's new FAQ page:



Re: TSP board to limit interfund transfers
Quote:
Originally Posted by James48843
Note:

Today, the TSP site put up some new FAQ's in an effort to make people think they are right. I challenge everyone to go over there, see what they have printed, and then let's collaborate on an appropriate counter-position, knocking down their data, fact by fact.

Here is the link:

http://tsp.gov/faq/faq14.html

We're going to go over to the "sandbox" to collaborate on what they have said here, and pick the facts out that we have a good leg to challenge.

RAE:

I just reviewed the FAQ's, and I think they are playing games with the numbers. I'm not an accountant, though, and we need someone with that kind of background to go through this and pick apart their arguments. For example, here is one question and answer in their FAQ sheet:
____________________________________________ __________

Q8. The TSP's expense ratio was only 3 basis points (.03%) in 2006. Why does the TSP need to limit trading when expenses are already low?

A. Transaction costs are investment expenses that reduce investment income before deductions for administrative expenses and are not included in the administrative expense ratio. (See the Thrift Savings Plan Statement of Changes in Net Assets Available for Plan Benefits portion of the Plan’s financial statement.) Transaction costs of $13.8 million reduced the I Fund return by 8 basis points (or .08%) in 2006; net administrative expenses only reduced participants’ returns by 3 basis points (.03%) in 2006.

Frequent trading also increases the cash the investment manager must hold to meet redemptions, which leads to a greater chance of differences in performance from the indexes tracked by the funds. It is the goal of the TSP to keep this "tracking error" as low as possible since the funds are designed to mimic their respective indexes.
___________________________________________ ____________

This does not make sense to me. It seems to me that transactions costs must be part of the overall administrative expense ratio. If they weren't, mutual funds could charge investors all sorts of "transaction costs", while quoting a low administrative expense ratio, to attract more investors. I doubt that the SEC would permit that. If you read the FRTIB meeting minutes from Sept, Oct, and previous months, the only thing they normally discuss is the admin. expense ratio...i.e., what is the trend in number of basis points for managing the TSP. So, if there are all these additional "transaction costs" that are suddenly so important to them, why have we heard nothing about it until now?

They say in response to another question that "99% of TSP members" will not be affected by the new IFT restrictions. If that is true (and I don't doubt that it is, since most folks I know pay very little attention to their TSP accounts), then what they are saying is that frequent trading by 1% of TSP members is causing a huge problem!. That is simply not plausible, and their numbers don't prove their case.

The trend in basis points is down, folks.....currently ONE BASIS POINT for managing TSP as a whole (Oct. 07 meeting minutes).

[Show-me]

Spit ball'n here.

"There are alternatives to reduce the cost of market impact and Fair Valuation that are hindering BGI from executing our interfund transfer efficiently through the market."

[James48843]

Spit ball'n here.

"There are alternatives to reduce the cost of market impact and Fair Valuation that are hindering BGI from executing our interfund transfer efficiently through the market."

Great point- but can we say it in english that Joe Snuffy can understand?

[Show-me]

O'man, I'll work on it.

I just hit a bunch of articles and a few MB with this.

My brokerage account does not allow me to day trade unless I have a margin account. My decision to IFT in my TSP account has to be before 12 ET and it is based on analysis of market data, charts, Fed speak, etc. If you do NOT want to be active in you retirement account that is fine, but do not restrict me in maximizing my return or at least trying to. Other alternatives are available, we just need to persuade the FRTIB and ETAC. Market impact and Fair Valuation are the underlying problems cause by the contractual requirement of BGI to settle our trade by the end of the day even though they take up to 3 days to settle trades with the market. Large moves when the market is volatile causes BGI to delay complete payment of those large trades diluting the fund return also, so it is not JUST frequent trading of the I fund, but the shell game that BGI has to play by buying futures contracts because the contractual requirements to settle IFT daily even thought they are restricted to a 3 day settlement wait. Visit www.tspshareholder.org for more information.

[Miss_Piggy]

OK Folks- we need your help. ........

This link appears to provide infinite resources for determining one’s Legal Rights as a Participant in a 401k plan and also the Responsibilities of the Plans’ Fiduciaries.
http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/publications/wyskapr.html

Also informative about ERISA compliances > http://www.401keasy.com/404c/404cans.html

[nnuut]

O'man, I'll work on it.

I just hit a bunch of articles and a few MB with this.

My brokerage account does not allow me to day trade unless I have a margin account. My decision to IFT in my TSP account has to be before 12 ET and it is based on analysis of market data, charts, Fed speak, etc. If you do NOT want to be active in you retirement account that is fine, but do not restrict me in maximizing my return or at least trying to. Other alternatives are available, we just need to persuade the FRTIB and ETAC. Market impact and Fair Valuation are the underlying problems cause by the contractual requirement of BGI to settle our trade by the end of the day even though they take up to 3 days to settle trades with the market. Large moves when the market is volatile causes BGI to delay complete payment of those large trades diluting the fund return also, so it is not JUST frequent trading of the I fund, but the shell game that BGI has to play by buying futures contracts because the contractual requirements to settle IFT daily even thought they are restricted to a 3 day settlement wait. Visit www.tspshareholder.org for more information.

IN other words we are saying the the TSP Doesn't know how to handle our money? I really think this is the problem.

[wv-girl]

Question... isn't a three day hold standard for all stock trades? It shouldn't be used as an excuse by TSP as to rising costs. Methinks Barclays is trying to grab our attention on the wrong issues. Yes, they are making outreagous(sp) FV's, but I still think that they are doing that to cover up their mistakes by trading at different times during the day and getting caught in the markets up and down swings. They say they only trade at certain times but I don't believe that. Anyone else think this way?

Debbie

[Spaf]

nnuut,
It's always been a problem!
TSP (FERS) members are treated like mushrooms!
i.e., Go see how big the G-Fund is, compared to other funds.
If we didn't have this problem "T" would not have had to create this web site.
and you wouldn't have a "coffee mug".......
Spaf

IN other words we are saying the the TSP Doesn't know how to handle our money? I really think this is the problem.

[Miss_Piggy]

Have people seen these GAO reports?

Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board: Many Responsibilities and Investment Policies Set by Congress GAO-07-611 June 21, 2007
Summary (HTML) Highlights Page (PDF) Full Report (PDF, 27 pages) Accessible Text


Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board: Due Diligence Over Administrative Expenses Should Continue and Be Broadened GAO-07-541 May 14, 2007
Summary (HTML) Highlights Page (PDF) Full Report (PDF, 35 pages) Accessible Text

Click or Ctr+click to link to documents

If doesn’t work for some reason, go to http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/keyword.php
and enter “TSP”