Thread: Maricar19 Account Talk

If you didn't already jump in from the sidelines earlier - i don't know that I would make any decision in or out this week. too much going on that muddies the waters of analysis.

I haven't jumped to the lilypad. Hoping for a net zero tomorrow.

Originally Posted by mmk119

If you didn't already jump in from the sidelines earlier - i don't know that I would make any decision in or out this week. too much going on that muddies the waters of analysis.

Awhile ago, I've read about maximizing your tax bracket.
I was trying to understand it and I came up with the below scenario.
Please advise if I understood it correctly.

		Taxable bracket	TAX
Gross Income	$145,000.00
less Standard deduction	$25,100.00
Taxable Income	$119,900.00
less	$19,900.00	10%	$1,990.00
less	$61,149.00	12%	$7,337.88
less	$38,851.00	22%	$8,547.22

1st Question:
Since the max for the 22% tax bracket is $91,699 ($172,750-$81051) and I only have $38,851 to account for,
does it mean I can convert anything below $52.8K from a traditional IRA to a Roth IRA without bumping up to the next bracket?
$91699-$38851 = $52,848

Roth Conversion

$52,500.00

22%

$11,550.00

The only caveat, if I am correct with my scenario, is in order to roll over the whole amount of $52K, I have to come up with the 20% automatic tax that will be deducted when I do the conversion or do i just roll over the net proceeds and have the tax considered as a distribution?
2nd Question:
What confuses me (maybe I am not fully understanding it) is I will be paying $11550 for the 22% tax and then the automatic 20% tax?
Am I being taxed twice for the $52K?

I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a rollover without the help of a tax pro after reading too many stories (mostly online posts) of people who "did the math" and ended up owing much more in taxes year end than they thought, or lost money from doing too much too soon and had to seek a professional after the fact.

Not totally addressed in your questions, but you'll want to have money in a non-retirement account to cover any possible taxes on the rollover, otherwise you'll have to rollover more than you need to cover the tax hit. Using retirement funds could easily raise your tax rate resulting in more lost money.

Have you tried a calculator to see numbers it comes up with?

https://www.schwab.com/ira/understan...ira-conversion

Originally Posted by Maricar19

What confuses me (maybe I am not fully understanding it) is I will be paying $11550 for the 22% tax and then the automatic 20% tax?
Am I being taxed twice for the $52K?

If I understand you correctly - the 20% you are talking about is the automatic 20% withholding that TSP is obligated to withhold when they distribute money from traditional IRA. That will count towards taxes paid - I believe it will show up on the tax form that TSP sends you at the end of the year so it is not being taxed twice, but perhaps not taxed enough if all of that is taxed at 22%. I agree with Bullitt that this is best done with the advice of a tax specialist/financial advisor. But I think you are thinking in the right direction. The better way to do it as i understand is to transfer it first from TSP to a traditional IRA (no 20% withholding required), then from IRA to Roth IRA where you will be taxed on the full amount converted. I am hoping to be in the 12% bracket for a few years after retirement before I start taking SS and that would be a big benefit - paying 12% vs 22% taxes on the money moved from TSP to Roth IRA. But definitely need a tax pro to help and QA.

Bullitt and flalaw97:

Thank you both for taking the time to answer my questions.

I used the calculator and it didn't seem to favor Roth conversion in any scenario that I put in.
I put incomes of $145K and $100K and put in conversions from $50K to $30K and none of these scenarios seem to favor a conversion.
The calculator responses are so different from my manual calculations - all computer scenarios seem to push me to the next bracket.
Now this makes me think that something is wrong with my understanding of "maximizing your tax bracket" - it's not that simple.

I agree with both of you that I should seek the help of a tax/financial advisor regarding Roth conversions.
It's hard to find somebody you can trust and really know what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Maricar19

Bullitt and flalaw97:

Thank you both for taking the time to answer my questions.

I used the calculator and it didn't seem to favor Roth conversion in any scenario that I put in.
I put incomes of $145K and $100K and put in conversions from $50K to $30K and none of these scenarios seem to favor a conversion.
The calculator responses are so different from my manual calculations - all computer scenarios seem to push me to the next bracket.
Now this makes me think that something is wrong with my understanding of "maximizing your tax bracket" - it's not that simple.

I agree with both of you that I should seek the help of a tax/financial advisor regarding Roth conversions.
It's hard to find somebody you can trust and really know what they are doing.

You are welcome and I appreciate all of the discussions because I am still learning alot! I think you have identified the crux - Roth conversions aren't that helpful if your income (pension, + supplement or SS + TSP withdrawals) puts you in the 22% bracket, and you don't expect to jump up to the 32% bracket down the road. I am hoping that for a year or two right after I retire (before I start collecting SS) I can survive on an income that will have me in the 12% bracket (i.e. under $81K Married filing joint) and then conversions will make sense because when my wife and I start collecting SS, we will be back into at least 22% if not 24% bracket. Get a pro to draw it out for you, given your situation and you will feel better that you explored it even if it isn't right for you.

Our September journey...Worst month so far, -$12,798 and -$10,779

Mine Spouse

$20.53	1-Sep	370.59	1-Sep
$41.07	2-Sep	1,013.96	2-Sep
$61.60	3-Sep	933.48	3-Sep
$147.16	7-Sep	217.39	7-Sep
IFT	8-Sep	(390.20)	8-Sep
$191.66	9-Sep	(862.06)	9-Sep
($4,430.92)	10-Sep	IFT	10-Sep
($3,268.14)	13-Sep	(2,108.18)	10-Sep
($7,631.64)	14-Sep	(1,436.58)	13-Sep
($2,610.75)	15-Sep	(3,395.37)	14-Sep
($5,217.29)	17-Sep	(945.37)	15-Sep
($16,219.21)	20-Sep	(2,915.60)	17-Sep
($15,282.88)	21-Sep	(8,262.19)	20-Sep
($9,097.31)	22-Sep	(7,950.13)	21-Sep
($1,700.07)	23-Sep	(4,981.16)	22-Sep
IFT	23-Sep	(1,361.94)	23-Sep
($1,395.52)	24-Sep	(1,484.99)	24-Sep
($2,273.97)	27-Sep	(1,644.93)	27-Sep
($9,401.14)	28-Sep	(7,994.91)	28-Sep
($8,990.04)	29-Sep	(8,047.87)	29-Sep
($12,727.96)	30-Sep	(10,779.13)	30-Sep

Worse month and quarter in a long time. 3rd quarter 3.29% and September 4.00%

Originally Posted by nasa1974

Worse month and quarter in a long time. 3rd quarter 3.29% and September 4.00%

For the first time in year 2021, we ended a month with a loss. From January to August, we had monthly gains.
Our year to date gains dwindled down from $63K to $50K and $26K to $15K respectively.

HOW COULD THEY ERRONEOUSLY ROLL OVER MY ROTH TSP TO SOMEBODY'S ROTH IRA ACCOUNT?

So I finally rolled over my TSP Roth to my Roth IRA. It was a long (almost a month), messy and erroneous process.
First, you complete the TSP Form 99 and have it notarized.
Second, you send it to your brokerage for them to certify that you have a receiving Roth IRA account with them.
The brokerage completes their section of the form and mails/faxes the form to TSP. TSP notifies you about the pending transaction and then electronically sends the money to your brokerage.
9/17 - Started the paper process.
9/18 - Had the form notarized and mailed it to the brokerage. Brokerage won't accept fax or upload of document.
9/26 - Received notification from TSP about the transaction
9/29 - Money was withdrawn from my TSP account
10/08- Money is pending at the brokerage. It took a week for my money to be received by the brokerage.
And when I checked it- the bad part is - it was being rolled over to my son's Roth IRA.
Tried calling my brokerage to correct the error and it was a recorded message saying that he is unavailable, and to press "0" for further assistance.
I pressed "0" and another recording saying, "We are sorry, but nobody is available to assist you."
Dang - I had no recourse but to leave a message and also send an electronic message.
I can't wait for Monday to speak to a live agent.
I can't believe the stupid mistake they made.