View Poll Results: are you a member of a union?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • dues paying union member

    9 25.71%
  • collective bargaining position but elect not to join union

    8 22.86%
  • federal worker in a series not covered by a union

    5 14.29%
  • federal manager not allowed to join a union

    3 8.57%
  • retired/no longer employed by federal government

    10 28.57%
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Results 37 to 47 of 47

Thread: federal unions

  1. #37

    Default Re: federal unions

    Quote Originally Posted by nnuut View Post
    Yeah sure, remember Ross Perot and the then Vice President arguing on TV when Perot warned the Inventor of the internet and Bill Clinton that there would be a GREAT SUCKING SOUND at the Border of JOBS GOING SOUTH? It damn well was Clint and AL. That was followed by GATT and other American job killers. SWOOOSH!!!!!! Where are Levis and tens of thousands of then American Made products being made now? NOT HERE!!!
    Oh but there were great jobs here. Unfortunately they went to that swelling mass of immigrant labor that invaded our country. Hey, it's a free market right? And they are willing to work for a lot less than us. It beats making Levis in Mexico.
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  3. #38

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    Default Re: federal unions

    [Re: getting out of the union because they didn't yada yada yada...] In the same sense that no one candidate for any political office will agree 100% with our personal beliefs--yet we vote; so too is it with a union. A union is not a separate entity. Workers are the union, and the will of the workers, not a minority report, ought to prevail.

    Even so, the minority still benefits from the union: wages, job security, working conditions, etc. I suspect it is only when we all are working at walmart that this will be obvious to the masses. To not realize this and not paying for YOUR union is akin to cutting off the next generation of workers noses' to spite your face. For most will have retired by the time the effects of receiving union benefits for free will result in fewer/weakened benefits. The next generation can then thank them for that. Btw, those workers received benefits/wages/working-conditions on the backs of the previous generations.

    Even intelligent managers realize the benefits the unions--the organized workers bring: for higher paid workers directly results in higher paid managers. I've found that anti-union/worker managers tend to be narcissistic in thinking that they are God's gift to the workforce and have, in no way, benefited from the blood, sweat, and tears of those who've fought for the rights of the basic worker throughout history.

    Smart managers also realize that there are bad apples amongst their ranks and like any police force, military, government; there needs to be rules/regulations/laws in place to protect the rank and file from potential abuse--as evidenced by history. Btw, managers have rules in place to protect them from "upper management."

    The National Labor Relations Board and associated laws were created not by democrats or republicans, but by both because of the atrocities of management during the time when management could legally do whatever they wanted--pretty much. To now erase those rights shows a lack of understanding of human nature with respect to "power" over other individuals; of history with respect to labor struggles; and of what will inevitably follow.

    History is forgotten/never-learned. History repeats.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...elations_Board

    ______________
    Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    Last edited by userque; 04-07-2015 at 07:59 AM. Reason: typos, added last paragraph/sentence. Added first sentence for clarity.
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  5. #39

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    Default Re: federal unions

    I have seen ultra-bad irrational powermad managers come down on employees they'd targeted. People everyone else respected and trusted. Thank the Lord for the union in those situations, recordkeeping of the incidents as they piled up against various targeted employees, turned over to the union rep and then to higher-level management, who weren't in position to directly observe the incidents for themselves. The information compiled by the employees and passed to management via the union, documenting mismanagement multiple episodes, gave higher-level management the documentation they needed to remove the powermad incompetant dictator from supervisory position into a non-supervisory position or else out of the agency via retirement or other venues. Yes, sometimes the track record of a bad supervisor has continued over long careers through multiple states, offices, moving up in the ranks or laterally as a supervisor before it finally finally catches up with them, with the help of a union rep. It's sad that so many people suffered under that person until enough momentum was achieved to get the documentation necessary on the behaviors for higher management to finally acknowledge and rectify longstanding errors in judgement on who they raised to supervisory position power.
    "life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards" - soren kierkegaard

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  7. #40

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    Default Re: federal unions

    All democracies are based on the proposition that power is very dangerous and that it is extremely important not to let any one person or small group have too much power for too long a time. I think that is true for Unions and Governments as well. Our Politicians are a small group (we could argue that ), have we given them to MUCH power for to long. There was a time when Unions had a lot of power, and to a smaller degree still do, but squandered that power when greed and corruption of a few gave them a bad rap. I do not dislike Unions. Peoples ideologies are not all the same. How do I justify paying dues to an organization who in turn will donate money to a candidate that I do not identify with. Or do I just trust that they have my best interest at heart, highly doubtful. Obviously this is why there is a big push on one side to unionize everything (more campaign $) and more push against it on the other side (less campaign $). Some will argue that it gives you a voice, I will argue it gives someone a bunch of numbers behind one voice and I have no say in who they are aligning themselves with.
    I have no doubt my TSPTALK Brothers and Sisters on the Left and Right are very adamant about there views and beliefs. This is an interesting topic.
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  9. #41

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    Default Re: federal unions

    Unions cannot legally donate union dues to candidates/politicians. They have a separate fund for that whereby members must voluntarily donate to. Mis-information and crack kills.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkFE View Post
    All democracies are based on the proposition that power is very dangerous and that it is extremely important not to let any one person or small group have too much power for too long a time. I think that is true for Unions and Governments as well. Our Politicians are a small group (we could argue that ), have we given them to MUCH power for to long. There was a time when Unions had a lot of power, and to a smaller degree still do, but squandered that power when greed and corruption of a few gave them a bad rap. I do not dislike Unions. Peoples ideologies are not all the same. How do I justify paying dues to an organization who in turn will donate money to a candidate that I do not identify with. Or do I just trust that they have my best interest at heart, highly doubtful. Obviously this is why there is a big push on one side to unionize everything (more campaign $) and more push against it on the other side (less campaign $). Some will argue that it gives you a voice, I will argue it gives someone a bunch of numbers behind one voice and I have no say in who they are aligning themselves with.
    I have no doubt my TSPTALK Brothers and Sisters on the Left and Right are very adamant about there views and beliefs. This is an interesting topic.
    Last edited by userque; 04-07-2015 at 10:08 AM. Reason: added "/politicians"
    [COLOR=#0000ff][FONT=comic sans ms][I]"In the land of idiots, the moron is King."--Unknown[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]

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  11. #42

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    Default Re: federal unions

    Quote Originally Posted by userque View Post
    Mis-information and crack kills.
    I don't write the stuff. This seems to be a good source of info used in these forums regularly.
    Union dues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Union dues may be used to support a wide variety of programs or activities, including: Paying the salaries and/or benefits of full-time or part-time union leaders and/or staff; union governance; legal representation; legislative lobbying; political campaigns; pension, health, welfare, and safety funds; and/or the union strike fund.
    In Dog Beers I've only had two.

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  13. #43

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    Default Re: federal unions

    I hear ya. It can get confusing.

    The Use of Labor Union Dues for Political Purposes: A Legal Analysis

    EDIT: It should be noted that I am/was referring to FEDERAL employee unions with regard to political donations.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkFE View Post
    I don't write the stuff. This seems to be a good source of info used in these forums regularly.
    Union dues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Union dues may be used to support a wide variety of programs or activities, including: Paying the salaries and/or benefits of full-time or part-time union leaders and/or staff; union governance; legal representation; legislative lobbying; political campaigns; pension, health, welfare, and safety funds; and/or the union strike fund.
    Last edited by userque; 04-07-2015 at 10:40 AM.
    [COLOR=#0000ff][FONT=comic sans ms][I]"In the land of idiots, the moron is King."--Unknown[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]

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  15. #44

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    Default Re: federal unions

    I was speaking of Unions in general.
    BTW, I am also opposed to Big Corp political spending as well.
    In Dog Beers I've only had two.

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  17. #45

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    Default Re: federal unions

    Supply and Demand controls the workforce as well as prices. When qualified employees are low they are payed more to attract them to the companies that are offering jobs. The employers are willing to negotiate with unions because they can get the employees to provide the products at higher prices to assure profit. When the prices drop due to global competition it is impossible to pay more and offer more benefits and make a profit so wages and benefits flounder. The unions have been failing due to global competition having a lower cost of business. So now the workers are being replaced by machines that only cost the businesses routine maintenance. I'm sure you can figure out what needs to be done.




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  19. #46

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    Default Re: federal unions

    Take them out before they take us out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeC-lGnajT0
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  20.  
  21. #47

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    Default Re: federal unions

    Quote Originally Posted by burrocrat View Post
    Taxpayers foot bill for union work, lawmakers seek changes | Fox News



    i'm curious, how many here are dues paying union members? covered by a collective bargaining unit but don't pay dues? in a series not represented by a union?
    I had to go back to the first post to see what this was supposed to be about.
    Lots of interesting replies including one that said the poster thought Feds could not belong to a union. No time to search back for that but someone should look in to it.
    I deal with two unions primarily. There are others covering contractors but that is nothing pertinent to this thread.
    One union deals with general schedule employees and seems to be mostly concerned with square footage of work spaces.
    The union I am covered by with a collective bargaining agreement which is discussed every year came to be “my” union due to some ancient thing about equivalency pay for craft trades.
    The deal is that the union appointed by some federal law finds out how much equivalent trades in for profit industry are being paid as well as what benefits they are getting and tracks pay increases they get.
    The history as I understand it is that the feds couldn’t hire or keep trades people at the old WG-05 rates and employees were leaving to get better jobs and no one was applying for the jobs advertised. Some GS-99 figured out that the reason was because they were paying nothing for these technical jobs.
    When I accepted the job I automatically became a union member and was not required to pay dues. I chose to pay the dues.
    Currently, in my agency, union reps are allowed to discuss union business while in pay status but do not get travel pay or per-diem if attending union functions off job site. They may actually be entitled to them but choose not to due to ongoing conflicts and BS. My rep used annual leave to attend the last out of town union meeting.
    It may not be the same where you are but here pay and benefits for my series depend on negotiations of the bargaining agreement contract each year. The article lead me to believe it applies to employees who are GS or SES. I looked around and couldn’t find any person using 100% of their time for union business.
    It appears once again that waste has been identified and all are being painted with the broad brush.
    PO

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