Gold as Currency?

[tsptalk]

Utah Considers Return to Gold, Silver Coins (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/03/utah-considers-return-gold-silver-coins/)

"It's been nearly 80 years since the U.S. stopped using gold coins as legal currency, and nearly 40 since the world abandoned the gold standard, but the precious metal could be making a comeback in the United States -- beginning in Utah."

[James48843]

Interesting question.

Does Utah have the legal authority to coin it's own money?

Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution seems to leave that power soley to the federal government, and specifically to CONGRESS, not the executive branch, either.



Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/glossary.html#IMPOST) and Excises (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/glossary.html#EXCISE), to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/glossary.html#WELFARE) of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/glossary.html#IMPOST) and Excises (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/glossary.html#EXCISE) shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


Seems to me that if Utah decided to create it's own gold currency (watch out- Glenn Beck will be pitching that idea soon!) that they could run into a Constitutional issue.

[RealMoneyIssues]

I don't think it is that straight forward:
http://www.theconservativeshepherd.com/east-coast-state-explores-alternative-to-american-currency
http://www.truthistreason.net/virginia-offers-hr-577-and-alternative-currency-to-protect-itself-from-likely-federal-reserve-meltdown

I also read another article earlier this year (but I can't find it) that there are a growing number of local stores that are PREFERING currencies other than the USD (like, along the Canadian border).

Those dang right-wing Mormons... always trying to start trouble... ;)

[tsptalk]

Interesting question.

Does Utah have the legal authority to coin it's own money?
It says they plan to use coins issued by the federal gov't. Is that the same as coining their own? Sorry if that is a dumb question. It could be a matter of symantics, I just wasn't sure of the distinction between coining your own and using fed gold coins.


The Utah House was to vote as early as Thursday on legislation that would recognize gold and silver coins issued by the federal government as legal currency in the state.

[RealMoneyIssues]

That is true in this case, but there are parts of this country that are either using their own currency, foreign currency, or falling back on the good 'ole barter system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States

[James48843]

It says they plan to use coins issued by the federal gov't. Is that the same as coining their own? Sorry if that is a dumb question. It could be a matter of symantics, I just wasn't sure of the distinction between coining your own and using fed gold coins.

That might be tough to do. According to the U.S. Mint's website, they aren't making American Eagle gold coins and fractional value gold coins anymore.

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&categoryId=13238&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10191&top_category=10191



American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coins

Production of United States Mint American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coins continues to be temporarily suspended because of unprecedented demand for American Eagle Gold Bullion Coins. Until recently, all available gold bullion blanks were being allocated to the American Eagle Bullion Coin Program, as the United States Mint is required by Public Law 99-185 to produce these coins “in quantities sufficient to meet public demand . . . .”

Although the demand for precious metal coins remains high, lower demand for bullion orders in August and September allowed the United States Mint to meet public demand and shift some capacity to produce numismatic 2010 American Eagle Gold Proof Coins.

However, due to the continued, sustained demand for American Eagle Gold Bullion Coins, 2010-dated American Eagle One Ounce Gold Uncirculated coins will not be produced. American Eagle Uncirculated Fractional Coins were discontinued after the 2008 program year.



http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/index.cfm?action=american_eagles

Without any new production coins being made, you'd be limited to those already out there, which certainly would up the value of them, I would think.

[Rogue]

I think this undermines the rest of us. Screw Utah.

[nnuut]

I doubt there is enough gold to cover our 14 TRILLION Deficit.



The total value of all gold ever mined would exceed US$5.3 trillion at that valuation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

[burrocrat]

they are proposing to use U.S. coinage right? legal tender if i'm not mistaken?

i'll just take my pay in a $20 gold eagle then thanks, and pay taxes on the $20 of legal tender i just recieved? man that gonna do great things for my tax returns then, puts me in one of the free categories where i get money back.

i'll convert portions of remainder to local currency when i feel a need to scratch that ole consumer itch.

plus i'll probably get to meet wesley snipes.

[nnuut]

How big would a 5 cent gold coin be?

[burrocrat]

How big would a 5 cent gold coin be?

big enough.

[Show-me]

The origianal $50 gold coin was a ounce coin and a troy oz. is 31.1 grams.

LOL, a $50 dollar gold piece by todays standard will weigh 1 gram and be about the size of a finger nail. I know because I have some.

Gold could be a monetary standard again but the ugly sister SILVER is what has the greatest potently because the common man can not afford gold any more.

One estimate put the total gold mined in the world at 5.3 billion troy ounces with 1 billion troy ounces of world wide unmined reserves.

5.3 billion troy oz. X $1433=$7,594,900,000,000 or $7.6 trillion of gold in the world. That will not cover our debt, good one Nnuut.

Total U.S. Dollar money supply is estimated to be $8.3 trillion in 2009 and that does not count the currency of the rest of the world or outstanding debt.

So if we go to a One World Order with a one currency gold standard what will the price of gold and silver be? LOL

By the way there is 5 times more gold than silver in the world. Silver is more abundant in the earth but there is less of it that has been mined.

Check out this article.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/206897-the-historical-gold-silver-ratio-and-why-it-s-time-to-buy-silver

[Show-me]

O, and buy silver.

I contacted Sunshine Minting this week to buy some Sunshine Bars direct and they responded back that they no longer sell to the public because they can't keep up with demand and they would not take orders until at least July of this year.

By the way they make the blanks for the U.S. Mint. :nuts:

[nnuut]

Yeah that would be a little too small to count.

[Show-me]

A modern U.S. nickle weight 5 grams that's $250 in gold. A dime weighs 2.268, that is $113. A copper/zinc penny weighs 2.5 grams or $125.

The gold coins would have to be smaller because gold is more dense than copper, nickle, and zinc.

[nnuut]

DUST!!!!!!!!!!

[burrocrat]

DUST!!!!!!!!!!

no, not dust, rust, love shack baby.

if either goes much higher the better investment is in rocks and sticks 'cause that's what we'll be beatin each other with for the bread, man.

when you're hungry nothing else matters.

[JTH]

A modern U.S. nickle weight 5 grams that's $250 in gold. A dime weighs 2.268, that is $113. A copper/zinc penny weighs 2.5 grams or $125.

The gold coins would have to be smaller because gold is more dense than copper, nickle, and zinc.

+1 Hey I like gold as much as the next guy, but I'll take a box of bullets too. Gold only has value because we assign it. Bullets have universal value & utility. Copper, brass, lead, all good stuff packed neatly and always at the ready.

Gold does have one HUGE advantage. The feds can't tax what they don't know you have.

[Show-me]

Just remember we are here to make money and a major article came out this week stating that the citizens of CHINA, the country that has 1 billion more people that the USA, are starting to buy the crap out of gold and silver to hedge their developing wealth/saving against INFLATION and their COMMUNIST TASK MASTERS. The citizens of China are getting wiser every day and the are starting to see they will be the number one economic engine in the entire world and inflation will run away on them sooner than later.

Now on the wealth side, when you start to become middle class and you are out with your friends you like to show off your wealth.......BLING! And, silver is the most affordable bling they can buy.

Did I mention the 1.3 billion people in India are buying the metals for the same reason?

Supply and Demand folks, and it ain't about us, the US, anymore.



China shifted to a net importer of silver from a net exporter in 2007. Industrial demand in the country has been strong and continues to expand, supporting future growth in silver consumption. While it's true that investment demand for has been robust, we believe the uptrend shown in the chart below represents only industrial and jewelry figures according to the ways that China's Customs collects data. The backdrop suggests that China's demand for silver has been strong and has room to expand further.


Read more: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/118383/20110303/a-look-at-china-s-demand-for-silver.htm#ixzz1FiwKLdRo




Deutsche Bank digs into the world of silver and gold and comes up with some interesting tidbits to support two chief themes:

Gold and silver are likely to keep moving higher.
Silver is likely to keep outperforming gold.
A big reason: individuals have started to migrate more to silver, given that it is a less expensive way to hedge against extreme deflation/inflation/currency scenarios than gold. DB says American Eagle silver sales totaled 38 million ounces over the last 12 months and the first two months of 2011 indicate annualized sales of 54 million ounces.
High demand has led to “backwardation” in the silver market, which tends to indicate tighter supply of silver than usual.


http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/03/04/deutsche-bank-silver-will-keep-streaking/



China’s net imports of silver quadrupled in 2010, to 122.6 million ounces, roughly 13.7% of global production.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Daily-Reckoning/2011/0228/How-much-more-demand-can-silver-handle

[Show-me]

And, I am buying common caliber ammo too for my personal safety and use.

[nnuut]

We can't use Gold, Platinum, copper or aluminum for currency they all are too expensive and zinc leaves a bad taste in your mouth so what else, how about sea shells, or some kind of plastic cards made from OIL? :cool:

10714

[James48843]

On Yap Island, they used stones for currency-

http://www.visit-micronesia.fm/image/photo_picture/gallery_yap/64.jpg

they even put in on their license plates:

http://www.janeresture.com/fedmic/yap1.JPG

http://www.janeresture.com/fedmic/yap.htm





Hey, brother, can you spare a dime?

http://www.janeresture.com/fedmic/yapmon2.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4yT0KAMyo