So I made my 2nd IFT....

[Nate]

This is my first post with any financial reference.
Im in the Army and upon signing up, my money went automatically into the G fund where I made no changes. It made me $1.60 my first statement. I wasnt impressed and wondered why I didnt just open a savings account.
I was scheduled to head for Iraq, reviewed the TSP funds, looked for high-risk with high up/down fluctuations. Went 100% IFT from G into the I fund. During the deployment, it did what I expected. Fluctuated. I bought in between Oct & Dec 2009. I fund shares then were around mid 17's-18's. (Im guessing these numbers represent dollar amounts per share :cheesy:.)
Currently, I funds are sitting at mid 19's. My latest statement says im up a couple hundred $'s/or like 7%. (I've currently only got like $1600 in TSP)
I funds havent been much into the 20's since 2005 (or 07, i forget), so i decided to pull 100% out and put it back into the G fund temporarily.
My thinking is over the next few months the I fund will fall again, probably back into the 17's or 18's....maybe lower. When it does, I can pull back out of the G, and buy back into the I fund while its down.
The reason for this post. Im no investor. Was this IFT a correct logic? Is this how money is made, or am I just way off? Im curious to hear peoples thoughts on whether I made a "normal" transaction/decision?

[Birchtree]

You can use your monthly contribution to dollar cost average into the I fund allowing you to accumulate shares in either direction. If the I fund goes back to $17 you buy down monthly until you reach that level - but it may go up instead and you still buy only you'll accumulate fewer shares. My rule has always been - learn before you churn. The market arena takes no prisoners - but DCAing does allow you to hedge. You'll have to work many years to build a base that will allow you to make money - so study as you go and learn.

[tsptalk]

Dollar cost averaging is a good plan, as Birchtree says, but it works best with a buy and hold strategy, not a market timing strategy.

Timing the market is difficult, even for those who watch things closely. I would say to either buy and hold with DCA until you have time to learn a little more and time to follow your account more closely. Or follow someone (like a member on the autotracker), follow a system, or follow a service, and follow them verbatim - meaning do not deviate.

At some point you may understand more and you can start to manage your own account.

Good luck!

[turbo23dog]

A Life cycle fund is an option for those who'd rather let it run on autopilot. I'd think L2040 would be your best bet based on your age.

[Nate]

DCA is basically what I was initially doing, isnt it? A monthly set amount regularly into a partucular fund.....only deviation was the time table. I didnt have a set time table, as I didnt have a plan.

The G fund was autopilot by default upon entry to the TSP until I physically made a change. My choice to enter the I fund was solely on the decision to take a risk and maybe make some money....even of only very little. I admittingly have only as much of a clue as the concept of buy low, sell high, resulting in my decision to currently move out of the I fund.
Seems to me I bought low at 17-18, and sold high at 19. Am I incorrect?
I understand I need some sort of formal education regarding this.
Being someone that doesnt pay attention to the market, I didnt see myself as trying to time the market for tomorrow, as much as just observe trends over the past. Yes it could go up more, but if im ahead already.......
I guess I was just looking for someone to say yes, you made a profit. Quit playing around & learn before you attempt this again. lol
I thought the Army was king of the acronyms....I have to reference wikipedia to decipher what you guys are talking about :laugh:

[Birchtree]

If you want to play without penalty think about opening a Roth IRA and buy some individual stocks. Any moves within a Roth don't require any IRS paperwork and you can get free dividend reinvestment four times a year. This may offer more flexibility as well as excitement. You'll be surprised how fast a Roth can grow and how fast some stocks can move. The Roth presents more opportunity as well as risk.

[Frixxxx]

A Life cycle fund is an option for those who'd rather let it run on autopilot. I'd think L2040 would be your best bet based on your age.
L funds go against the mantra of this board.....unless it is a temporary "haven" for allocation stance in a manner that assists greatest returns.....L funds on autopilot may be nice, but it's still buy & hold:blink:!

[Nate]

One last thing...(sorry to hog the topic) I was going to save this for a correct thread. I signed into the TSP by the advice given to a group of soldiers during a financial brief....one of the hundreds of briefs we go through. Like the other ones, the person giving it gave the impression "youre stupid if you dont do it". They just neglected to give the full information (as many briefs) and did not inform the room that this was basically a government 401, and that early withdrawl has a 10-20% penalty. It was told to us that it is much smarter than a savings account, as it returns a profit. Thats it. Yes, they were correct. But did not give the full information that this is meant to be a retirement plan.
Stating this, im not sure what the future holds, if I will be picked up by the federal government after my military contract. Im not sure of many things. Not sure if I leave federal service, I can keep my money in the TSP to sit...not sure if I can continue to contribute....not sure if I will roll it over into something civilian ie: roth or 401. Initially, I only signed on under the impression it was stupid not to, and better than a savings plan. If I decide to go work for say, state level government & need to access this money after my military contract is over to help pay for a move between jobs, or whatever somes up, I will take a significant hit. Not telling you all this looking for a response, but turbo mentioned the L fund according to my age. I'd like to say that since I finally got myself into a retirement plan, (even though unexpectedly) I should stick with it. All the suggestions and help you guys give on this site is great, and I wish I had come across this sooner. Most military folk in the TSP Ive talked to have no clue what theyre doing either.

[Birchtree]

Well shucks, my friends do let friends buy and hold - so there.

Nate,

Here are some of my DCA purchases of BP Oil. This will demonstrate the strategy. My first purchase during turmoil was at $45.46 a little early and then $36.99, $31.66, $29.91, $29.73, $27.86, looking for the bottom, $33.14, $36.02, $37.01, $38.01, $39.48, $40.16, $41.05, $38.32, $42.00 and I'll be buying all the way to $60.00. I currently have a nice profit but one had to be a fool to go near this stock. They will restart their dividend in the Spring. It was a contrarian play that has worked fine - but it did take some courage to follow this puppy all the way down to $26.00. I've been doing the same strategy with MEE (Massey Energy) a coal company.

[Frixxxx]

Most military folk in the TSP Ive talked to have no clue what theyre doing either.
The important thing is to invest in your future.
TSP is a 401(g) which is 99.999999% the same thing as a 401(k). They are investment engines that have deferred tax status for IRS accounting.
No matter what your status is, a 401(g) will sit there as long as you like. If you convert to a civilian, you can convert it to your employer's 401(k) plan with no fees.
Now, if you are going to be lazy and not forget about your 401(g) then leave it until you retire in whatever fund you like. But if you are ACTIVELY caring for your nest egg and can move it to a 401(k) that you can actively trade/grow in your best interests, then do that.

THERE ARE NO PENALTIES FOR TRANSFERRING TO A 401K!!!!

However, the other transfers (ROTH IRA or into your pocket) come with penalties.

Hopefully this helps! and tsp.gov has a great handbook covering all the scenarios that can occur with your life and the status of your account!:cool:

(Birch-B&H is also a fine way to invest:toung:)

[Birchtree]

You should also mention how cost effective the TSP plan is and the military does not offer any matching. However, on any deployment the amount for contribution can reach $44K rather than $16,500. And for those lucky enough to be 50 years old there is another $5.5K available for contribution. It's a long term plan that gains in value as a money maker when the balances grow - just think how much a person can make if you own 40,000 shares of a fund - my friend that's $40K a point. Now you're talking money to be made for retirement and it's very cost effective. It just takes many years of time in grade to get to this level.

[Boghie]

Nate,

Your TSP account is 'transferable'. You will have the right to keep with the Federal brokerage (actaully Blackrock) or move it (all or part) to a new employers 401(k) or a self directed Traditional IRA. The only caveat is that you can only make the move after you quit your current employment.

The Good:
Any assets in your 401(k) [TSP] are yours. You can actually see how much mulla you have in the account. As you gain experience you can calculate how much you will be able to pull out of it during your golden years. NO politician can jigger formulas and change anything in the account. It is Al Gores 'lock box' - yuk, yuk...

The Bad:
While in the military you get no free match. Civilian slugs like myself get a 100% match to 5% of our salary contributed into the account. In other words, if I contribute 5% of my salary to my account my employer (the Federal Gubmint) dumps the same amount in. It is a good deal. We get it because the governemnt pension portion of our retirement is kinda crappy nowadays. Most employers no longer provide a pension. Thus, wheter you stay in the Army or join the '5th Civ Div' you will have some retirement assets.

The Ugly:
It is very expensive and very dumb to pull 401(k) assets out of the accout before retirement age. You can draw a loan - and that is ok. But, you should not yank out the money when you quit your job. Move the money to the new employers 401(k) - or, better yet to a self-directed 401(k).

Finally, I would recommend books by Ric Edelman and Ray Lucia. Both have very good radio shows as well. Edelman's is a two hour weekend show (http://www.ricedelman.com/cs/radio_show/radio_stations). Strongly recommended.

[Nate]

I appreciate all the help & suggestions. Currently, staying in the TSP seems the best option. I have 18 months minimum left with the Army, Its allocated automatically prior to taxes, & financially smarter for me currently. I will however look into an IRA option, if I can fit it into my budget. I did some researching and my credit union offers these options.

I reviewed others movements on the autotracker & found some interesting maneuvers. I will be researching the small cap S fund, as well as continue to monitor the I fund in the future.
I noticed S & I funds seem to follow S&P rise & fall trends. Is this obvious, or coincidence?

[tsptalk]

I noticed S & I funds seem to follow S&P rise & fall trends. Is this obvious, or coincidence?
That's typical, but when interest rates are low you might expect the small caps of the S fund to outperform, and if the dollar is falling the I-fund might outperform. That's a generalization but basically if the stock maket is rising, all of the stock funds (C,S and I) will go up.

[nnuut]

Welcome to the Message Board and best of luck with your allocations.
Be careful over there!
Norman

[Boghie]

Nate,

In 2008 and 2009 the F/C/S/I funds acted in concert. That is not normal. Those years were very 'AbbyNormal' years. This year is a bit more normal. You can watch the flow of equity assets (C/S/I) into bond assets (F) and vice versa over the year. Rather normal. You can watch assets move to equity November through March and bail out in May. Normal. Normally, your S Fund will average higher than C/I - but will fluctuate more. Normally, the F Fund will move inversely to the equities holdings. The G Fund is almost cash in the bank.

Anyway, the next move should be an equity move.

If you are not tied into the market like Gordon Gekko the best bet is to hold an allocation of funds that fits your risk. If you quiver at a daily loss of a half point don't invest much in equities - but you won't have much in retirement. If you can handle a dump of 10% in a month hold lots of equities - and, you should be eating caviar and oatmeal for breakfast in your golden years.

My guess is that you can accept risk. So here are some Edelman allocations that might suit you (I highly recommend his 'The Truth About Money' (http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Money-3rd/dp/0060566582/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288455356&sr=1-1) and his 'The Lies About Money' (http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Money-3rd/dp/0060566582/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288455356&sr=1-1)):

Normal Allocation (Normal Market)
G: 0%
F: 17%
C: 48%
S: 19%
I: 16%
Average Return: 9%
Average Risk: 11%
Risky Allocation (Expanding Market)

G: 0%
F: 0%
C: 50%
S: 30%
I: 20%
Average Return: 10%
Average Risk: 13%
Risk Adverse Allocation (Crappy Market)

G: 0%
F: 22%
C: 39%
S: 15%
I: 12%
Average Return: 8%
Average Risk: 10%
Great Depression Market Crash (2008)

G: 50%
F: 50%
C: 0%
S: 0%
I: 0%
Average Return: 2%
Average Risk: 2%

Risk is not really 'risk'. It is the normal expected variance (the standard deviation). What that means is that in a normal market with a 'Normal Allocation' you can kinda expect a 9% return - but, it can swing from a -2% return to a +20% return and still fall into expectations. You have to accept a potential expected loss of -2% in any particular year to feel comfortable in the allocation I call 'Normal'.

The big dump we had from 10/2007 through 3/2009 was a -57% in the C Fund. That is 6 standard deviations from expected. That is a crash.

Again, Edelman's 'The Lies About Money' has a very nice quiz to set you to a good allocation that you can play with as you gain experience. His website (http://www.ricedelman.com/) has something called the GPS which helps you set an allocation that fits your profile. The questions are easy to answer and take minutes.

Playing a swing trader right now will probably guarantee an Alpo/Oatmeal diet in retirement. You have to be able to read the squiggly lines on charts and look at the fundamentals of companies in an index to win at that game.

Finally, set your contributions to buying equities - even in a downturn. Maybe a 40% C, 30% S, 30% I. Very yummy in a market crash. Rubbing belly right now.

Finally, finally, finally, how reluctant are you to spending $15 on a very good book on personal financial management and spending a couple days reading it? It will net you millions. Honest. And my name is neither Ric nor Ray - although Ray Lucia's office is spitting distance (and a scary run across a busy freeway) from my humble abode.:p


I appreciate all the help & suggestions. Currently, staying in the TSP seems the best option. I have 18 months minimum left with the Army, Its allocated automatically prior to taxes, & financially smarter for me currently. I will however look into an IRA option, if I can fit it into my budget. I did some researching and my credit union offers these options.

I reviewed others movements on the autotracker & found some interesting maneuvers. I will be researching the small cap S fund, as well as continue to monitor the I fund in the future.
I noticed S & I funds seem to follow S&P rise & fall trends. Is this obvious, or coincidence?

[Nate]

Good advice. Your "very yummy in a market crash" numbers were along what i was thinking of looking into. Curious if theres any objections to your suggestions.......Turbo made a suggestion of the L2040 fund, which isnt too far off from between "crappy market", "expanding market", and "very yummy in a market crash" numbers.
Obviously, the L funds are just lazy.....but not too far off.

[Boghie]

Good advice. Your "very yummy in a market crash" numbers were along what i was thinking of looking into. Curious if theres any objections to your suggestions.......Turbo made a suggestion of the L2040 fund, which isnt too far off from between "crappy market", "expanding market", and "very yummy in a market crash" numbers.
Obviously, the L funds are just lazy.....but not too far off.

Nate, you have gotta study this stuff a bit more.

Turbo's L2040 recommendation results in (https://www.tsp.gov/investmentfunds/lfundsheet/fundPerformance_L2040.shtml):

G: 10%
F: 10%
C: 40%
S: 17%
I: 23%
Return: 8%
Risk: 10%
It is closest to my 'Normal Allocation'. Not even kinda clost to conservative or expanding. Those 2% changes are huge when compounded for years. And the risk thing matters a ton.

In the end, till you get a feel for asset allocation, the L2040 is a great place to be. The 10% in the 'G Fund' is kinda dead money for someone in their 20's - but the L2040 will self correct as time moves on. The individual funds have to be managed by you.

Also, discussion of contributions is radically different from discussion of allocation. You want the market to be cheap when you buy (contributions from your pay check). But, if you want to play with the money already in your account you can fudge your allocation based on where you think the market is going.

Regardless, start with the L2040 then pick a few folks from the AutoTracker and see if you can stomache their gains and losses. You will form your own style.

And - based on this years returns - my guess is that you won't look at the chap in position 159. Yuk, yuk... :p

Enjoy.

[Nate]

I understand, the L comment was silly. Its a "autopilot for the rest of your life" -fund.
2% isnt too far off, when comapred to the fact that I sat 100% G fund 6 months, then 100% I fund 12 months. Currently, the C & I funds are at the highest they've been since 09/2008, and the S fund is at the highest its been since 06/2008.
I want to move into these funds, but not while theyre at a 2 1/2 year peak. I feel I should wait to see what the C, S, & I funds are going to do before I move there. G fund money is money in the bank, which is why I just went 100% there, but it was not a long-term move by any means.
Gains & losses I can stomach if I know the end result is a gain. But....by not monitoring my funds, its been easy to stomach what you dont see :toung:.
I plan on buying a book before long.
I admittingly could be way off....these funds, and the market could go skyrocket. This impulsive move could have been way off by not paying attention to the economy. And I will miss out on making more money. I just feel they will go down again before they go up up & up. Then, I can stomach taking the advice given to me to go into some equities holdings.

[Boghie]

Nate,

We are still -25% from the highs in the 'C Fund'.

If you are concerned about the market you might want to move some assets to the G/F Funds. Maybe 30% - 50%.

That would leave you 50% - 70% in the equity funds if you are wrong. You will take part in some of the gains while simultaneously reducing your risk of loss.

I have personally learned my lesson in the 'G Fund'. It doesn't have enough growth power to overcome any losses in C/S/I (and, I bet, the F Fund as well). I view it as a cash holding area. Useful in a market crash, not so much any other time.

Most here will warn you off the 'F Fund' right now because inflation - or the threat of inflation - will smash it. The 'F Fund' seems kinda bubbly.

On the other hand, the equities funds seem to be returning to the norm.

What I am recommending is a more balanced approach. I wouldn't guess the market. I wouldn't swing the market. Only a few in this site effectively do it - and, they seem to have some serious experience in doing so.

Anyway, happy hunting.:toung:

[Nate]

Well, last few days spent getting the wife somewhat interested in learning. Looked at ING Direct as they are advertising a no account minimum or inactivity fees. Not sure about their trading fee's though, but may be something to drop $50 into & see how things work.
My local Barnes & Noble has a copy of Truth about Money. Probaby head about to pick something up. Unsure if this one would be better than Lies about money.
Other thing is, looked at individuals on the autotracker some more. Being a noob to all this, I have to ask out of ignorance.....Ive been given advice of considering just possibly following a random individual on the tracker. Follow his moves for perspective, or financially mock his moves.
- If say Intrepid Trader or AviatorGuy are in the top 5, with +20% returns.....why is everyone not mocking their moves to place 100% of IFT allocations (or is it contributions?) from say, the S fund on the first week, then move to the C fund on the 4th week?
This, versus Bogies maneuvers & recommendations of percentages broken down between 3 indivdiual funds......and sitting at 159th position?
Im not trying to throw anybody under the bus.....its an honest (and not smarta$$) question.
I decided on Saturday to change my contributions from 100% I fund, to Bogies "Yummy market crash" numbers of 40% C, 30% S, 30% I. Its most likely a temorary move, maybe not the best for the market, but has to be an improvement over contributions 100% I fund since 11/2009.
My TSP balance is still sitting in the G fund until I decided where to place it. Being new to all this, trying to follow posts here have been confusing as I didnt even remember until day 3 of posting here that I have 2 different maneuvers in the TSP, allocations & contrbutions.:embarrest:
Hey, I never claimed to be the sharpect tack :laugh:
I could probably speculate the answer myself. I'd just like to verify my thinking is correct. Since this may be treading dangerous waters, anyone may feel free to PM me their reply.

[Birchtree]

When it comes to investing you'll find that everyone has an opinion - some have more than one like armpits. ING now owns Sharebuilder and their costs are around $4 per trade. I know several people using it and are satisfied. Rather than buying a book you might consider taking a subscription to Barrons. It comes once a week so you don't get inundated with data. Just think about how many shares of the C fund you could have bought when it was at $8 vs $14.26. The same would be true of the I fund. In March '09 the I fund was selling at $10.29. The point is it will take time to accumulate shares and now that prices are rising it will take even longer to build a serious position. So you have plenty of time to build your TSP. I'm so fortunate that I'm not starting new because this bull market is going to be my salvation. My redemption is years of earned experience and now that I'm retired all the taps are wide open and the dollars are flowing. The Nasdaq 100 index (NDX) is printing higher highs and that can be an indicator that this recovery rally has many more years to run. Snort.

[Nate]

Well I considered your suggestion, and headed off for a simple start at browing through Barnes & noble. Ive got my wife interested in learning, and bluntly, both of us really are not familiar with economics, much less investing. We hit the both isles. Economics has a few good books, including the "for dummies". We decided to only buy 1 book, and went to the investing isle searching for something basic, bang for buck. Decided on a book called "All about stocks" (3rd ed) by Esme' Faerber. Very basic, explaining different types & styles, but concentrating on stock investing.
"The Truth about Money" kinda headed off into financial planning more than I wanted at the moment...myself (& wife) are more interested in learning "why", uncle sam's decisions affect "what" & "how", so that we may be able to benefit & make correct financial decisions the way some of you do.
For now, were reading the book, and Im watching closely at everyones "account talk" posts.
I've learned quite a bit over the last week, thanks for everyones help here, and eager to learn more. Been paying attention to Fox Business...and trying to understand this foreign language they speak :laugh:.
Most of my family & friends pay 99% less attention to politics, the economy and investments than myself.....at 35, im behind the curve.....but better late than never.

[Nate]

I dont mean to beat a dead post, but Ive had an ongoing confusion with the general TSP lingo used here.
If i understand it correct: my contribution allocation (aka allocation) tracked by the autotracker is my monthly contribution into the TSP fund.
I dont know what term is for what TSP referrs to as my account distribution. I'd assume its distribution.
I ask, because i've gotten alot of recommendations regarding allocations. Do most of you here divide up your "distribution" similar to your allocations? -Or quite differently?

For the record, the education im getting here is passed along to a friend also....a fellow soldier I've known since Basic. Shes had her funds sitting in G for the last 1-1/2 year. Were both looking into some seriously needed TSP classess offered by the Army.

[Steel_Magnolia]

I dont mean to beat a dead post, but Ive had an ongoing confusion with the general TSP lingo used here.
If i understand it correct: my contribution allocation (aka allocation) tracked by the autotracker is my monthly contribution into the TSP fund.
I dont know what term is for what TSP referrs to as my account distribution. I'd assume its distribution.
I ask, because i've gotten alot of recommendations regarding allocations. Do most of you here divide up your "distribution" similar to your allocations? -Or quite differently?

For the record, the education im getting here is passed along to a friend also....a fellow soldier I've known since Basic. Shes had her funds sitting in G for the last 1-1/2 year. Were both looking into some seriously needed TSP classess offered by the Army.
We don't talk about our monthly contributions into our accounts much and if we do they are usually referred to as "monthly contribution." What the autotracker tracks is the amount of the total TSP account (contribution and any interest earned) that is placed into each Fund (G, F, C, S and I Funds), which may be what you meant by "distribution."

Keep asking, we'll keep trying to help. If you have a question about something, someone else probably wants to know the answer too.

Maggie

[Nate]

Thanks for the quick reply & helping me not feel stupid lol.
To clarify.....like described, the autotracker lists what individual funds im contributing to monthly, as well as the percentages gained/lost.
IE: Im currently putting $X this month into 40% C fund, 30% C fund, and 30% I fund, and made X% YTD & monthly.
But, I have a balance in my TSP of $X sitting in the G fund. I guess this is where im getting confused. A screenshot may better explain.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1130.snc4/149223_1645625548019_1458313068_1662801_3788751_n. jpg

Should the autotracker reflect the G fund, even though my monthly TSP deposits dont go into the G fund?

[nasa1974]

We don't talk about our monthly contributions into our accounts much and if we do they are usually referred to as "monthly contribution." What the autotracker tracks is the amount of the total TSP account (contribution and any interest earned) that is placed into each Fund (G, F, C, S and I Funds), which may be what you meant by "distribution."

Keep asking, we'll keep trying to help. If you have a question about something, someone else probably wants to know the answer too.

Maggie

Maggie is right. The tracker does not reflect your monthly contribution to your account. The tracker is just a teaching tool. It may or may not track your real TSP account, that is up to you. For most of us we use the tracker to show how we change the % in the different funds we are in. As an example my tracker position (165) shows that I am 40%, 30% & 30% in the C, S & I funds. That does reflect the % that I have in my real account. At the beginning of the year we all start with $100,000.00 in the tracker. That way it keeps us all on the same playing field for comparision purposes. Make sense? Keep asking questions.

[Nate]

So if the tracker should reflect how we change the % of different funds we are in, I am actually able to change two different % of funds per the table below. When I registered with Tom for the tracker, my "initial" allocation is currently 40% C, 30% S, 30% I

Yet, the percentages of my "account distribution " of 2.34% C, 1.75% I, 1.76% S, and 94.15% G have monthly % gains, can be changed as well, but are not part of the autotracker?

Im only mentioning this as when Boghie gave me some ideas, he stated:
"discussion of contributions is radically different from discussion of allocation. You want the market to be cheap when you buy (contributions from your pay check). But, if you want to play with the money already in your account you can fudge your allocation based on where you think the market is going".

If I choose to follow someone on the autotracker, I assume Im following their contributions, but I dont know what their allocations may be...?...


Wait a minute Nasa....youre saying the autotracker doesnt reflect the % of what in your real account? Are you telling me these are make-believe numbers just to win a coffee mug? :laugh:

[Boghie]

Nate,

Contributions - This is the NEW money you are placing in your account every month. My current contribution of NEW money is split this way: 40% C, 30% S, 30% I. At my age (mid-40's) and at my risk tolerance (something less than BirchTree but higher than Amoeba:p) I like to use my new money to buy stock. Maybe when the stock funds (C/S/I) become overly expensive I'll buy F. But, I don't think so.

Thus, my paycheck contributions are split like this:

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=357


Allocation - This is the breakdown of assets ALREADY in your TSP account. My current allocation is: 10% F, 40% C, 10% S, 40% I. It is an odd allocation for me. I generally try to keep to something closer to the three allocations I noted previously. However, like Birch, I think that the weak dollar will positively affect the I Fund. And, the S Fund had a bigger chance to swing radically. I may accept risk, but I don't love it.

And, my overall account allocation (tracked on the AutoTracker) is split like this:

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=356


We use the AutoTracker to track allocation. Why? Because generally you will have much more money in your account than what you are putting into it with your paycheck. The allocation affects earnings much more than your contribution. But, as BirchTree stated, buying the C Fund at $7 with your contributions was sure tasty...

By the way, you found two of the folks who are quite good at swing trades. Just not my style. And, by the way, I'm not used to being mid-pack:p

[Boghie]

Nate,

I can make this real clear now that I have reread your last post.


The "account distribution" of 2.34% C, 1.75% I, 1.76% S, and 94.15% G is what is normally called ALLOCATION.
Your CONTRIBUTION is 40% C, 30% S, 30% I.


So, you kinda got the AutoTracker reversed...

But, you gained postion in our little competition because of your mistake:p. I'm going to have to report this grevious error. You might knock me out of my #128 position - yuk, yuk.

At your age - and with the amount you probably have in your account - I would recommend having nothing in the G Fund. It is completely wiping out your gains. The 'G Fund' is gaining (guaranteed) 0.01% per day. That is fine if you are a Kennedy and have lots of money in the account, but you probably have very little. Use the 'G Fund' as a cash holding till you figure out what to do with your allocation.

Finally, I would recommend reviewing how lots of folks trade and not be too concerned with current AutoTracker position. That can change rapidly. And, one style may be good this year and rather lousy next.

Finally, finally (yuk, yuk), I recommended Edelman's books BECAUSE they are financial planning books. With TSP you aren't trying to win with 'The Big Short' (http://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Inside-Doomsday-Machine/dp/0393072231/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289179767&sr=1-1), you are trying to win with a long run plan. You don't game with retirement money. You invest with retirement money.

[Nate]

Ok got it finally! So......I just enrolled with autotracker a few days ago, and I now believe my initial allocation provided to Tom is incorrect. Not so important. -But, when looking over some numbers you've suggested, I needed to fully understand "what" money should go where. ;)
Thanks a million Boghie for all your help!

[Boghie]

When you get a bit more used to the lingo start taking a peak at the blogs.

They are more in depth and can be very technical – pun intended. If you don’t get my cr@py joke, a technical trading style is very dependent on market momentum and charting. I think the swingers fall into that camp. Others take the ‘fundamental’ approach – that is, they use earnings and pricing to make their choices. Finally, others will allocate using long term analysis and kinda let it ride –reallocating when the percentages get out of whack or when their situation changes.

Then you got me.
I ain’t got a plan nor a style.
Maybe a momentum influenced allocator.
But, I know a good beer when I drink one – that’s something.

Don’t let this stuff overwhelm you…
Have some fun with it…
Happy Hunting…

[Nate]

Nate,

At your age - and with the amount you probably have in your account - I would recommend having nothing in the G Fund. It is completely wiping out your gains. The 'G Fund' is gaining (guaranteed) 0.01% per day. Use the 'G Fund' as a cash holding till you figure out what to do with your allocation. With TSP you aren't trying to win with 'The Big Short' (http://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Inside-Doomsday-Machine/dp/0393072231/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289179767&sr=1-1), you are trying to win with a long run plan. You don't game with retirement money. You invest with retirement money.

Yeah, this is why I needed to clarify what was what. I pulled out premature and seeing the error of my ways now. I had a feeling & just wanted to get in at a lower-low. Not so much worried about that anymore.


That is fine if you are a Kennedy and have lots of money in the account.

I would never be a Kennedy!
- A DuPont maybe.

[KevinD]

'The Big Short' (http://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Inside-Doomsday-Machine/dp/0393072231/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289179767&sr=1-1),

Another sample to the Kindle. 2 in one morning. :nuts: Thanks for the link. :)

[Nate]

RE: IFT's, I thought I read that a move to the G fund does not count regarding your 2 monthly IFT's. Is this true?

[Boghie]

Nate,

Your FIRST two (2) IFTs are the ones that count. It does not matter how you reallocate.

After your first two IFTs in a month you can only move assets into the 'G Fund'. Actually, you can use Squalebears '<1%' IFT reallocations to move back into equities (this technique is expained in a sticky thread on this site).

If you are planning on swinging or trading in TSP those two IFTs are the most valuable things you own...




RE: IFT's, I thought I read that a move to the G fund does not count regarding your 2 monthly IFT's. Is this true?

[burrocrat]

if on dec. 01 you move a little bit to G then that is one. if on dec. 02 you move some more to G because your fears were confirmed then that is two. and you're done. limited to G for the rest of the month. unless you left something in another fund(s), then you can do the 1% moves back from the lily pad.

it works and they'll let you do it, i tried it once for about two weeks, but i felt like a late commuter running to catch a train that wasn't going to stop anyway, yes you might catch a small bit of the coming wave, but if you are all out and now want to be in it only makes a small difference. that is the name of the game here though, small differences add up over time.

[Nate]

yeah I just called TSP to chat with them....and express my disgust for 2 per month. The guy was helpful and sympathetic, but informed me all that could be done is to write the tsp board regarding my disliking the limited IFT's. Thanks for the replies!

[Birchtree]

Nate,

Save your energy. You can always open a Roth IRA and probably should while you're young. That should be your trading vehicle while TSP is an accumulation vehicle - a fiduciary account.

[JimmyJoe]

Blaa blaa blaa. TSP = cottage industry that became a burrorcracy(sp). They all need to take drug tests.

[Nate]

So far birch i've only opened an individual account outside of tsp and trying to build up some kind of base there. Isnt a roth similar to the tsp in the sense that the contributions are pre-tax and you pay upon withdrawl?

[tsptalk]

Isnt a roth similar to the tsp in the sense that the contributions are pre-tax and you pay upon withdrawl?
That's a traditional IRA. Roth deposits are made with after tax money. Roth withdrawals are tax free.

[Nate]

ahh...thanks!

[Birchtree]

The nice thing about a Roth IRA is that you can trade into deliriumousness without any IRS paperwork. It just takes awhile to build a base to make any money - but sometimes slow money is the best money. ANF is shaking my socks off today.

[XOMek]

I've used my two IFTs for April. If I want to reallocate starting May 2, can I submit an IFT before 12:00 on Friday, Apr 29, with an effective date of May 2? I guess the question is, does this count as an April or May IFT?

[Frixxxx]

I've used my two IFTs for April. If I want to reallocate starting May 2, can I submit an IFT before 12:00 on Friday, Apr 29, with an effective date of May 2? I guess the question is, does this count as an April or May IFT?
May, as it will be effective on the 2nd.:cool:

[Scrappy]

May, as it will be effective on the 2nd.:cool:

Frixxxx,

why would an IFT in Apr before 12 not be effective for that days closing?

It is early, am I confused?

I would think XOMek couldn't make an IFT for May until after 12 on 29 Apr or before 12 on 2 May?

[Frixxxx]

Frixxxx,

why would an IFT in Apr before 12 not be effective for that days closing?

It is early, am I confused?

I would think XOMek couldn't make an IFT for May until after 12 on 29 Apr or before 12 on 2 May?
OK, here's the deal.
February 2010 - I used both IFTs in the first week. Don't ask why.
On 26 February @ 1000, I executed an IFT request. The monies wouldn't move until the 1st of March. The system accepted the transaction.
I did this. and it worked.
But TSP says:
"Interfund transfers made on the TSP website or the ThriftLine before 12 noon Eastern time are generally processed that business day. You will receive a confirmation of your interfund transaction. " - TSP Website

Since the 29th of April is on the Friday at the end of the month, it should be processed as a request and executed the following trading day ~ 2 May.

Now, here's the kicker: I have tested the IFT transfers when I have already used my 2 IFTs. If it will not let you move funds, then they fixed the system. BUT it worked for me.

So, XOMek, if you are willing to be a 2011 test the IFT system for us, then try and make an IFT on Friday and post your results.:cool:

[XOMek]

So, XOMek, if you are willing to be a 2011 test the IFT system for us, then try and make an IFT on Friday and post your results.:cool:

I was going to try and put in an IFT tomorrow morning so I'll post tomorrow (or Monday?) when I know for sure whether it worked.

If it doesn't accept an IFT does the system just shoot back an error message saying you're over the limit?

[Birchtree]

No, they send someone in size 12 jump boots to reinforce their message.

[Frixxxx]

I was going to try and put in an IFT tomorrow morning so I'll post tomorrow (or Monday?) when I know for sure whether it worked.

If it doesn't accept an IFT does the system just shoot back an error message saying you're over the limit?
If you are over the limit, then yes, it tells you immediately.:blink:

[RealMoneyIssues]

No, they send someone in size 12 jump boots to reinforce their message.

Hmmm, I fit that profile... :D

[Nate]

0415am Pacific time. IFT attempt:
You cannot transfer among the other funds until after noon eastern time on the last business day of this month.

[Sensei]

0415am Pacific time. IFT attempt:
You cannot transfer among the other funds until after noon eastern time on the last business day of this month.

Which means you won't be in the new fund until Tuesday (well, COB Monday), and the IFT would count in May. Might as well wait until Monday morning to see which direction the wind's blowing before pulling the trigger.

[Frixxxx]

So Nate,

For verification:

You used two IFTs in the month of April. On the last trading day of the month (April 29th)

You received the following error when trying to trade before 1200 EST:


You cannot transfer among the other funds until after noon eastern time on the last business day of this month.

True?

[Nate]

Roger!

Probably insignificant, but 3 IFT's actually in April:
S fund
I fund
back to G fund

This morning 0415 PST got the error message explaining I've already used my two allowed IFT's for the month.
I've got class at 0900 PST and will not be able to try again until appx 1130'ish PST

[Nate]

1320 PST my IFT went through. Class went longer than expected.

[Frixxxx]

That counts as a May IFT since it was AFTER 1200 EST.:cool: