North Korea faces anger over sinking of South's warship

[Silverbird]

North Korea is facing international condemnation after investigators blamed it for the sinking of a South Korean warship in March.

The investigation team, which included experts from America, Australia, Britain and Sweden, said it had discovered part of the torpedo on the sea floor and it carried lettering that matched a North Korean design.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10131683.stm

[tsptalk]

This is spooking markets around the world today (along with the rest of the problems). Scary situation.

N.Korea accuses South, threatens action (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100525/ts_afp/skoreankoreamilitarynaval_20100525112017)

"SEOUL (AFP) – North Korea accused South Korea's navy (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100525/ts_afp/skoreankoreamilitarynaval_20100525112017#) Tuesday of trespassing in its waters and threatened military action, further raising tensions sparked by the sinking of one of Seoul's warships in March.

"The South has announced a series of reprisals including a trade ban after a multinational investigation concluded last week that a North Korean submarine had torpedoed the Cheonan (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100525/ts_afp/skoreankoreamilitarynaval_20100525112017#) on March 26."

More (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100525/ts_afp/skoreankoreamilitarynaval_20100525112017)

[nnuut]

North Korea really needs to back off, we still owe them one Ya know! Kim Jack Creep must be really sick, they have been known to do this kind of crazy stuff when the leader is sick to show that he is still strong, that's the kind of nnuuts they are!

[Silverbird]

The problem is, it's worth it for Kim to play chicken. We don't have enough extra boots lying around to do anything in Korea except present a token force. Right now doing exercises with the South Koreans. That's a nice Kabuki pose, but as we know from the last Korean war it's not enough to be a serious attempt at striking at North Korea. Right now it's just making our position clear.

It may be Kim wants us to do something serious. Things are pretty bad in North Korea right now. I hope not.

It may be he's Kabuki posing too - but the the North's posing is getting a little old.

Notice he did not deny the story about the missle...

[CountryBoy]

I also heard that Kim Jack Creep, good name, is sick and wants to put his 26 yo son in charge and the military doesn't like it, so they are flexing their muscles. This may be a military coup in the making.

[Silverbird]

Heh, they shouldn't be picky. The other sons aren't exactly peaches. The youngest appears to be the only active one in the bunch.

[Frixxxx]

The problem is, it's worth it for Kim to play chicken. We don't have enough extra boots lying around to do anything in Korea except present a token force. Right now doing exercises with the South Koreans. That's a nice Kabuki pose, but as we know from the last Korean war it's not enough to be a serious attempt at striking at North Korea. Right now it's just making our position clear.

It may be Kim wants us to do something serious. Things are pretty bad in North Korea right now. I hope not.

It may be he's Kabuki posing too - but the the North's posing is getting a little old.

Notice he did not deny the story about the missle...
We have more than enough, China not a player this time around!:cool:

[Bullitt]

It's so soothing how the media finds ways to explain every little ebb and flow in the market. Great point Silverbird, our response is kabuki theater.

[Silverbird]

We would be in a better position to do something if we weren't already committed to two battle fronts. Ok, we are pulling out of Iraq, but we are still there!

There aren't enough boots unless we pull out of somewhere. And it's not just boots we are talking about, even knights in armor in the old days led a huge logistics chain.

The other problem is, if we win, guess what we get! Yes, our new territory, North Korea, now there's a nightmare that makes the integration of East Germany look like getting free diamonds! It's the horror story version of "the Mouse that Roared". We have no good reason to invade North Korea, that's what they want - the undivided attention of the U.S. Notice they sabre-rattle as soon as we try to ignore them.

I think a Kabuki dance is all the attention they deserve, at least from us. Oh, and of course, it shows our support of South Korea.

[Birchtree]

We have a formidable Navy in the area heavily armed. We have an active Air Force that can reach them in hours. They would be decimated in days and they know it.

[Silverbird]

Yes, but are they really worth the ammunition? Plus, it will create a refugee problem in China and South Korea that would boggle the mind. If you think Mexican immigrants are uneducated, try North Korean ignorant, it is so much worse.

[Frixxxx]

Yes, but are they really worth the ammunition? Plus, it will create a refugee problem in China and South Korea that would boggle the mind. If you think Mexican immigrants are uneducated, try North Korean ignorant, it is so much worse.
It will create a new Korean country and will allow Korea to be whole and build from within. What is scary is that now we will have an ally ON the border of China.

Kim Jong Il will die, he will not be succeeded, he will be replaced. I pray to be on the team that erases the DMZ line....I go again in August!

[nnuut]

We have a formidable Navy in the area heavily armed. We have an active Air Force that can reach them in hours. They would be decimated in days and they know it.
I said the same thing about the first war Iraq, boy did I eat my words on that one. I know you remember the War with Korea, was it easy, will the North stop hating the South, NO! Sometimes it's just better to leave the cockroaches alone, unless they start infesting another country. :cool:

[WorkFE]

Korea is a beautiful country. Really ashame they have moron leader to the north.
China sure seems to be the linch pin with alot of the diabolical countries.

[Buster]

Can China afford in today's International market to get bogged down in an issue of NK's?...I think not, because they lost a lot of the World's respect during the North Vietnam support...Granted, they are still a communist country and even with that stigma, it has taken them years to regain the standing they now have with the World's nations...they can't afford to lose their KFC contract....I'm just saying

[Silverbird]

The South does not want to re-convene with the North, the economies are too different now, as is the quality of education. What it would mean is the South having to baby-sit the entire North's economy, for at least two generations. As I said, it makes the East German integration look like West Germany acquired diamonds in comparison. East Germany is only now getting close to integration economically. And in the East, at least they were not under the impression that Khrushev, Breznev (spelling) and Stalin were divine. But that's what you have in North Korea, all good comes from the Kims.

China also doesn't want to adopt the North Korea problem child, that's one of the reasons they are keeping hands off and ignoring what their neighbor is up to. And looking solemn in press pictures with Kim, even though I think they wish they were elsewhere and those solemn looks are a cover for a grimace.

[Frixxxx]

The South does not want to re-convene with the North, the economies are too different now, as is the quality of education. What it would mean is the South having to baby-sit the entire North's economy, for at least two generations. As I said, it makes the East German integration look like West Germany acquired diamonds in comparison. East Germany is only now getting close to integration economically. And in the East, at least they were not under the impression that Khrushev, Breznev (spelling) and Stalin were divine. But that's what you have in North Korea, all good comes from the Kims.

China also doesn't want to adopt the North Korea problem child, that's one of the reasons they are keeping hands off and ignoring what their neighbor is up to. And looking solemn in press pictures with Kim, even though I think they wish they were elsewhere and those solemn looks are a cover for a grimace.
Yes, but it is happening. Deutschland is now a powerful country. They are leaders in an area that desperately needs some leadership. North Korea is not as blind as you think. They are well aware of the world, just not in practice of it.:suspicious:

[nnuut]

IF THEY DID, which they won't can you imagine the influx of illegal immigrants slipping across the border? I bet none get across it now and if they do and get caught what do you think they get, possibly 20 lashes with a CANE, boy that hurts, 10 years in jail and a free trip across the border. :worried:

[Silverbird]

Well, China was accepting them, but North Korea told them to stop doing it. Odd situation - the North cannot admit that they have a problem. Enforcement is a bit shoddy on the China side. Problem for the North Koreans, even if they do successfully sneak in, they do not qualify for anything except the most menial of jobs - if that.

[James48843]

We have a formidable Navy in the area heavily armed. We have an active Air Force that can reach them in hours. They would be decimated in days and they know it.

Our forces that remain today in Korea are nothing more than a speed bump if the North decides to cross. The only reason we have 28,000 or so left there is to be a reason to go back in. We used to have 80,000 there, then 50,000 there, then 37,000 there. Now we're down to a very small number, and they are looking at over a million under arms in the north.

The south would have to bear the brunt of the attack- all we could do in the time we had, was try and slow them down a bit as they come down. They already know our old "Inchon" response to try and cut their lines- so that probably won't work the next time as well.

No- it would get quite bad if they even had anything serious break loose. Technically, they are still in a state of war. Let's all hope it doesn't turn any hotter.

[nnuut]

Our forces that remain today in Korea are nothing more than a speed bump if the North decides to cross. The only reason we have 28,000 or so left there is to be a reason to go back in. We used to have 80,000 there, then 50,000 there, then 37,000 there. Now we're down to a very small number, and they are looking at over a million under arms in the north.

The south would have to bear the brunt of the attack- all we could do in the time we had, was try and slow them down a bit as they come down. They already know our old "Inchon" response to try and cut their lines- so that probably won't work the next time as well.

No- it would get quite bad if they even had anything serious break loose. Technically, they are still in a state of war. Let's all hope it doesn't turn any hotter.
This is true, shear numbers, like locust a million man army at that short border is SCARY! I think South Korea should give all of our military a free car with a jam up stereo. 9472

[Frixxxx]

Our forces that remain today in Korea are nothing more than a speed bump if the North decides to cross. The only reason we have 28,000 or so left there is to be a reason to go back in. We used to have 80,000 there, then 50,000 there, then 37,000 there. Now we're down to a very small number, and they are looking at over a million under arms in the north.

The south would have to bear the brunt of the attack- all we could do in the time we had, was try and slow them down a bit as they come down. They already know our old "Inchon" response to try and cut their lines- so that probably won't work the next time as well.

No- it would get quite bad if they even had anything serious break loose. Technically, they are still in a state of war. Let's all hope it doesn't turn any hotter.

We no longer fight numbers. We are way more tactical than that. Even if they started driving trucks through South Korea with no resistance, they couldn't get an hour in before 10 squadrons of fighters and bombers were rallied and dropping bombs on their vehicles. Seoul is not a rice patty anymore and believe it or not...we can SEE the borders from space. We know what they are doing. South Korean military have been trained and there numbers (#12 military) "exceed" North Korea's (#20).

You are correct - they are observing a "cease fire" right now.:cool:

[James48843]

Text from North Korea statement



The following are key points from the text of the report issued by the North's KCNA news agency.

"The Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea, accordingly, formally declares that from now on it will put into force the resolute measures to totally freeze the inter-Korean relations, totally abrogate the agreement on non-aggression between the north and the south and completely halt the inter-Korean cooperation.

"In this connection, the following measures will be taken at the first phase:

"1. All relations with the puppet authorities will be severed.
"2. There will be neither dialogue nor contact between the authorities during (South Korea (http://www.reuters.com/places/south-korea)n President) Lee Myung Bak's tenure of office.
"3. The work of the Panmunjom Red Cross liaison representatives will be completely suspended.
"4. All communication links between the north and the south will be cut off.
"5. The Consultative Office for North-South Economic Cooperation in the Kaesong Industrial Zone will be frozen and dismantled and all the personnel concerned of the south side will be expelled without delay.
"6. We will start all-out counterattack against the puppet group's 'psychological warfare against the north.'
"7. The passage of south Korean ships and airliners through the territorial waters and air of our side will be totally banned.
"8. All the issues arising in the inter-Korean relations will be handled under a wartime law.
"There is no need to show any mercy or patience for such confrontation maniacs, sycophants and traitors and wicked warmongers as the (South Korea (http://www.reuters.com/places/south-korea)n President) Lee Myung Bak group."

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64O3YU20100525

[Frixxxx]

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64O3YU20100525
Great now maybe we can cut all that oil and food aid and use it back here in the U.S.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS21834.pdf (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS21834.pdf) :mad:

[Scout333]

Does any of this sound vaguely familiar? North Korea pitches a tantrum and we give them money to encourage them to be more peaceful towards their neighbors. Sad that the North Koreans are the true victims here. Regime is spending all available resources to support military and to make their fearless leader rich. Citizens are suffering due to lack of food, medical supplies, etc. Humanitarian aid is the only thing keeping many of them alive. No good economic solution here.

[Frixxxx]

Does any of this sound vaguely familiar? North Korea pitches a tantrum and we give them money to encourage them to be more peaceful towards their neighbors. Sad that the North Koreans are the true victims here. Regime is spending all available resources to support military and to make their fearless leader rich. Citizens are suffering due to lack of food, medical supplies, etc. Humanitarian aid is the only thing keeping many of them alive. No good economic solution here.
If you only knew the extent of the atrocities over there.:mad:

[Bullitt]

Seeing that markets are up 2%, I guess Korea is no longer a threat. What a complete joke. Another failed explanation of why the stock market tanked a few days ago.

[nasa1974]

According to this morning paper, China might be willing to back UN sanctions against North Korea. Now that China has become a world player in retail and the stock market maybe it realizes that they can be hurt keeping North Korea as a close ally.

[Bullitt]

The world is saved. Nasa, I should crack open a mid-day beer after reading that news.

[nnuut]

China was just playing games before, now they are playing a different game, it is LET'S BE LIKE THE USA, was!!

[crws]

I'd second that, but then I'd need a nap.
Too much to do for that today!
Bullitt, did you get a foot on the train as it left the station?
You know that "trend is your friend thing"...
It's about time for the g.o.v. to do face time reminding folks recovery is a dynamic process...

-Reading this, you'd hardly know there was an issue in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/may/25/homeowners-remortgage-equity-rebound

"Homeowners urged to remortgage as equity levels rebound" Homeowners who bought a property between 2006 and 2008 now have sufficient equity in their homes to remortgage on to a cheaper rate, research shows


Homeowners who bought their homes between 2006 and 2008 can potentially switch to cheaper loans because the equity in their properties has substantially increased over the past year.
A combination of low interest rates – enabling homeowners to pay off more of their mortgages (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/mortgages) – and increasing house prices (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/houseprices) means that someone who bought their home in April 2006 has increased the amount of equity from 17% last year to 25%, according to analysis by HSBC (http://mortgages.hsbc.co.uk/).
Someone who bought in April 2007 has increased their equity from 6% to 16%, while someone buying in 2008 has increased their equity from 4% to 13%.
The increase means that homeowners can apply for mortgages with a lower loan-to-value (LTV), dramatically cutting the cost of their monthly repayments.
The best rate the 2006 homeowner could have applied for last year was 4.59%, but they could now apply for an ING Direct (http://www.ingdirect.co.uk/) two-year variable mortgage at 2.59% (75% LTV), resulting in savings of £152 a month.
Likewise, the cheapest mortgage the 2007 buyer could apply for in 2009 cost 7.09%, but this year they could opt for a lifetime tracker from First Direct (http://www1.firstdirect.com/1/2/) currently charging 3.99% (LTV 85%), producing a monthly saving of £281.
The 2008 homebuyer can now apply for loans with a 90% LTV ratio (there were none available in 2009). The cheapest currently available is the HSBC lifetime tracker charging 4.49%.
HSBC's head of mortgages, Martijn van der Heijden, said: "This analysis just shows how important the rebound in house prices have been for existing homeowners. Whether they have any intention to sell or not, rebuilding the equity in their homes is an essential element in gaining access to lower rates when they come to remortgage."
"So whether homeowners are concerned that the house price recovery may not continue, or just want to benefit from having access to better rates than even a year ago, now may be a good time to remortgage and capitalise on the improved level of equity they hold."
HSBC based its calculations on 25-year repayment mortgages and house prices collected by the Land Registry (http://www.landsearch.net/landregistry/?gclid=COufo_SH7aECFUOF3god7RiOKw).
House prices fell between September 2007 and April 2009, eroding deposits and equity held by homeowners in their properties. But values have risen steadily since last spring, according to the Land Registry, with the average house price rising from £152,761 to £164,288.

[crws]

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[Silverbird]

China 'will not protect' Korea ship attackers
China "will not protect" whoever sank a South Korean warship in March, Prime Minister Wen Jiabao has said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10181527.stm
[China tries a tentative Kabuki pose. Will the younger generation (pro-South Korea Business) win, or the old guard (Korean war vetrans - though some must be miffed that North Korean "history" books ignore their sacrifice)?]

[Steadygain]

China does not want to get involved and most certainly does not want the world placing N. Korea's discipline on their shoulders.

I can't fault them for that -- I mean the N. Korean leader is like super crazy and as far as I know the population knows almost nothing but waging war and preparing for war.

But have we lost our sense of humor? :worried:
I mean why is this such a big deal ? :cheesy:

Since when did we forget to go with the flow and let water run off like it does from a duck's back ??
Maybe it's time to learn a few lessons from history.

Look at Pearl Harbor for instance. Gosh when all those ships got blasted to pieces -- everyone still held their cool and all was fine.
We had the last laugh :laugh: and told Japan we get to use the loss as a Tax write off.

Boy did that make them mad :mad:


Well the nurse just told me it's time for my next dose -- later all

[mick504]

I truly believe the N. Korean leader just wants attention....it's saber rattling...and that's it. And then maybe he's got other mental problems....besides just being a jerk.

[Steadygain]

I truly believe the N. Korean leader just wants attention....it's saber rattling...and that's it.

Wow ! I'm impressed :);) Your wording shows a deeper knowledge of a long standing problem -- far beyond what most know.

I would agree my friend and undoubtedly you're right on target.

And then maybe he's got other mental problems....besides just being a jerk.

Yeah this one is a whole lot harder to fairly assess. When you consider Saddan's son, for instance, who knew he had the power to do anything and everything he could possibly imagine then maybe if you honestly stretch your imagination with a heart that has no feeling and a mind that lacks any trace of moral content -- it may be easier to understand why he did so many things to others. His father knew no limits either.

So being a dictator is bound to warp your mind to some extent and that would largely make him a jerk because he's so self centered. Maybe it takes a dictator's mind and life to shut out and ignore everything your people have to endure???

Who knows ?? But one thing is certain -- he wants everyone to believe his dream of what is TRUE and absolutely forbids anyone outside letting them know the real truth.