Why we're not Greece - yet

[Silverbird]

"....And keep in mind the nature of their fiscal problem is very different from ours. In Greece, public employee wages are a major budget issue, accounting for as much as one-quarter of federal spending. As a result, the latest austerity program would cut government salaries by about 10 percent.

By comparison, the U.S. spends about $115 billion on wages for federal civilian employees -- a tiny fraction of our $3.6 trillion budget. A 10 percent reduction in federal pay would reduce our $1.4 trillion deficit by barely $10 billion -- loose change in the fiscal sofa cushion..."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/19/news/international/taxvox_greece/index.htm

[It's not social programs the protestors are angry about, it's the nice cushy friend of a friend jobs in the Bureaucracy of Greece that they believe led to this huge debt. BTW that red italic is mine, yeek! 1/4 federal spending as employee wages!!! In this case when they say cut the bureaucracy there's plenty there to put scissors too.]

[Steadygain]

"....And keep in mind the nature of their fiscal problem is very different from ours.

OK - my delightful genius - now I'm only saying this to be kind of 'enchanting' and not 'challenging' -- but this is one I'd enjoy hashing over just a little.

Our fiscal problem is very much like theirs my dear friend and let's go over a few things.
1. We (which always means the USA) have increasingly given more and more rewards and breaks to the millions and millions who would rather find loop holes for 'free money' than live productive lives.

2. We have refused to accept the TRUTH of allowing DEBT to create increasingly horrible consequences. So just like THEM we very much live behind an empty mask of comfort.

3. We have largely been dominated by DEBT as the norm and buying beyond our means and having a huge debt has most defined 'The American way of life'.

4. We have - and still do - live in a 'Dream World' where we believe the US Government (FED - Treasury - Politicians) have the power to control the Economy. Throughout the years this appeared to be true and only with the recent crisis are we finally waking up.

In many ways our 'problems' are identical. People (a population) is so grounded into believing 'this or that' Blaming the Government is unavoidable. We have to blame someone so why bother with the details of the BANKS or whatever created the mess. But here I would have to say -- the Governments had to have been aware and reaping in some money -- cause the FED and the IMF and others see what's happening. :mad:

Which would take me to one LAST point -- the population at large are always the ones to suffer and have to pay the price. For it is the way of life my sweet and some will skate through.

In Greece, public employee wages are a major budget issue, accounting for as much as one-quarter of federal spending. As a result, the latest austerity program would cut government salaries by about 10 percent.

Whatever, in the good ole USA the Military is respondsible for way more than 25%. Now please MB - am not trying to sound like what's his name -- but in light of mounting DEBT -- it does seem more logical to cut the biggest costs.

By comparison, the U.S. spends about $115 billion on wages for federal civilian employees -- a tiny fraction of our $3.6 trillion budget. A 10 percent reduction in federal pay would reduce our $1.4 trillion deficit by barely $10 billion -- loose change in the fiscal sofa cushion..."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/19/news/international/taxvox_greece/index.htm

However, Silverbird --- before we pat ourselves on the back it would be good to acknowledge 'A Government ILL EXECUTED' by Paul C. Light. For it clearly shows how the 'Federal Government' has expanded by leaps and bounds over the years. The layers have gotten both DEEPER and far WIDER. It is not good -- my friend -- and it's getting worse and worse.

[It's not social programs the protestors are angry about, it's the nice cushy friend of a friend jobs in the Bureaucracy of Greece that they believe led to this huge debt. BTW that red italic is mine, yeek! 1/4 federal spending as employee wages!!! In this case when they say cut the bureaucracy there's plenty there to put scissors too.]

Oooh Silverbird, do you honestly think our Bureacracy is any better in terms of fundamental design and structure and faults and problems.

All that being said -- despite the immense problems our country may have WE are still the country seen as offering the most hope; the greatest chance for freedom; the best of opportunities and the one with seemingly endless potiential.

Plus - we do have the most beautiful women (said without bias and totallly from an objective point of view) - the smartest women; mmmm the ones that carry themselves in the most dazzling ways; the ones that seem to have the most extensive levels of wit, charm, intuition, insights, and other more feminine traits; the ones that simply have it together and have the most to offer. So I can't complain --- I'm glad I'm here.

[Warrenlm]

"....And keep in mind the nature of their fiscal problem is very different from ours. In Greece, public employee wages are a major budget issue, accounting for as much as one-quarter of federal spending. As a result, the latest austerity program would cut government salaries by about 10 percent.

By comparison, the U.S. spends about $115 billion on wages for federal civilian employees -- a tiny fraction of our $3.6 trillion budget. A 10 percent reduction in federal pay would reduce our $1.4 trillion deficit by barely $10 billion -- loose change in the fiscal sofa cushion..."
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/19/news/international/taxvox_greece/index.htm

[It's not social programs the protestors are angry about, it's the nice cushy friend of a friend jobs in the Bureaucracy of Greece that they believe led to this huge debt. BTW that red italic is mine, yeek! 1/4 federal spending as employee wages!!! In this case when they say cut the bureaucracy there's plenty there to put scissors too.]


Seems to me that a comparison must include all levels of government and total budgets. I would think the states' budgets are heavy with state and municipal employees. They have to execute the goodies passed out by DC.

[Silverbird]

Well that would mean also adding all the municipal workers in Greece too, that's considerable given their federal model :rolleyes:. You also have to keep in mind with size of bureaucracy, size of country matters. The U.S. and EU are more compatible in size and number of differing "states", there's no way the EU or the U.S. could micromanage at the equivalent of the state (or EU country) level, so that necessitates another layer of bureaucracy that Greece doesn't really need. And, of course, we are talking about a lot more municipalities and cities in the case of the EU and the US.

[Boghie]

Steady,

1/4 of Greece's spending is wages. The DOD does not spend all of their budget on wages. There are carriers and bombers and tanks and things as well.

I do, however, agree that the DOD should get a trim - and I work for the Marine Corps.

However, our debt is largely benefits. Those have to be cut.

My proposition is that ALL budget line items added after 1968 or so should be challenged. Some of those line items are necessary in the modern age - but, they should be able to justify themselves easily. However, much of the bloat was good times a-spendin'.

We ain't in good times.

I don't want to spend.

[Steadygain]

Steady,

I work for the Marine Corps.

I'll be going to their Museum in VA next month -- will probably take my father.

The first thing I always try to determine is if the potiential President will be a Candy ass -- cause that's the last thing I want.

I don't mind them spending on the 'Military' - I just wish they'd take a lot of the 'losers' funneling off all the free money and make them join and learn some discipline and build some character and stuff. So from my perspective it's not the 'Spending' it's how it's being used.

Anyway, don't get me wrong Boghie --- My only reason for saying anything is that 'we've' got plenty of garbage to deal with ourselves and in all likelihood a lot of their problems would have to mirrow our own.

But I fully believe that places like Japan and Greece need to be dealt with and dealt with aggressively. So making changes to straighen out a huge mess and promote accountibility is something I'm thrilled to see.