Gulf of Mexico BP Oil Well

[wwwtractor]

An oily sheen covered a roughly 400-square-mile section of the Gulf on Sunday, an area larger than the five boroughs of New York. The slick lies about 70 miles south of the Mississippi and Alabama coastline, said the U.S. Coast Guard. Meanwhile, efforts to shut off the well have been unsuccessful. The leak, which was discovered Saturday through information from underwater cameras, is still gushing 1,000 barrels a day from the seafloor.

[nnuut]

BAD NEWS!! Watch out for that Oil SLICK!!!:worried:

[Buster]

I would of thought it would have been automatic..



Poor weather conditions offshore hampered cleanup efforts on Saturday. Authorities have approved a plan to use submersible remote-operated vehicles in an effort to activate a "blowout preventer" on the sea floor, Coast Guard (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/U_S_Coast_Guard/) Senior Chief Petty Officer Mike O'Berry said in a statement Sunday.
A blowout preventer is a large valve at the top of a well. Activating it will stop the flow of oil, O'Berry said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/25/oil.rig.explosion/?hpt=T2

[James48843]

Guess not.

What were you telling me the other day Buster? That they have technology now that prevents this kind of thing?

Guess we'll have to wait and see how much oil gets dumped into the Gulf of Mexico before they are able to do something to stop it.


Drill, Baby Drill has a very high price, indeed.

[Buster]

Guess not.

What were you telling me the other day Buster? That they have technology now that prevents this kind of thing?

Guess we'll have to wait and see how much oil gets dumped into the Gulf of Mexico before they are able to do something to stop it.


Drill, Baby Drill has a very high price, indeed.
LIFE has a high price in general if you choose to live in better than primitive conditions...The very fact you are typing on a keyboard and using a computer tells me you are enjoying the benefits of OIL...

Don't act all cocky and like you told us so...

And yes, I did tell everyone, not just you, there was devices (call it technology if you want to) to prevent this...Guns have safeties too, Planes have Stall indicators too, Car have Brakes, seat belts, air bags too..do they ALWAYS WORK...NO!

Appearently you chose not read this....


Authorities have approved a plan to use submersible remote-operated vehicles in an effort to activate a "blowout preventer" on the sea floor, Coast Guard (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/U_S_Coast_Guard/) Senior Chief Petty Officer Mike O'Berry said in a statement Sunday.
A blowout preventer is a large valve at the top of a well. Activating it will stop the flow of oil

[Silverbird]

Not BP again! So sloppy. :rolleyes: If I remember properly, recent Alaska fiasco and crappy solar panels. BP = we are so beyond petrolem we don't watch our existing business!

[Buster]

Not BP again! So sloppy. :rolleyes: If I remember properly, recent Alaska fiasco and crappy solar panels. BP = we are so beyond petrolem we don't watch our existing business!
Run by the same people that run the coal mines in WV?

I don't think it's anything like that..


Simply..Feces Occurs

[Silverbird]

Actually, they are trying to move away from coal, and recently dissed it as messy. But they really are the wrong messenger given their mishaps.

[Bullitt]

This is an absolute disaster.

This is so symbolic of the problems in America, but people are too dumb to take the 5 seconds from their pathetic twitter and facebook ridden lives to understand it. Instead of caring, Americans are more concerned with 'dire economic times' even though we're in an alleged bull market. Markets gapping down are more important than a slow oil leak that has it's eyes set on the Exxon Valdez record because at the end of the day the ONLY thing that matters at all to our leaders is the stock market. If it's going up (like today it was up 2.5-3% even though it finished down) the economy must truly be in good shape and everybody should be making money.

I guess we'll have to wait 10 years to really know the effects and I'm sure by that time BP or Transocean or whoever the patsy is, will do nothing more than write a small check (that will be mitigated after appeals) from their earnings when gasoline is at $5 a gallon.

[Frixxxx]

This is an absolute disaster.

This is so symbolic of the problems in America, but people are too dumb to take the 5 seconds from their pathetic twitter and facebook ridden lives to understand it.

This is where I think you are not quite right.....People know what to do, we are smart. The problem is we are powerless to do anything except plead with those in charge. Those in charge need to be reminded. It is not Joe Smith or Mary Jane's fault, it is ours as a collective.

What is the fix? Do we turn off oil usage? Do we just drill in other countries?

James and I said in week one of this catastrophe - to get independent experts involved to start overseeing the process to stop the insanity. I even told my congressman Hon. Calvert to get more experts 3 freaking weeks ago. The regulations need to be enforced AND reworked now that there is known fallacies in the system.

Then focus on GETTING OFF OF OIL as our fuel of choice.:mad:

[Steadygain]

This is an absolute disaster.

I guess we'll have to wait 10 years to really know the effects.

Actually that's kind of funny - cause a lot of people believe that.

I'll bring the data in tomorrow and share some details. You'd be amazed at what happens -- at least 30 years later.




What totally blows my mind -- is why on earth BP did NOT do the 'American Thing' and declare bankrupty (sp) goosh :rolleyes: - that would have been way easier.

Then they could have simply said, 'Accidents will happen'.


Anyway - no use crying over spilt milk. But I'll bring what 7,000 scientists recently found with the Exxon Valdese spill and everyone can get a clue.

Gulf is just a small part though -- the worst is yet to come.

Well later all --- I'm really out ;)

[Viva_La_Migra]

Then focus on GETTING OFF OF OIL as our fuel of choice.:mad:
That is exactly what this administration has been waiting for...a call to get us off the oil and on to the "green" options of his cronies.

I like green options, but until those options are more commercially viable, we need to keep oil flowing. Preferable in pipes leading into ships, or through a pipeline, and not directly into the environment.

[James48843]

...The problem is we are powerless to do anything except plead with those in charge. Those in charge need to be reminded. It is not Joe Smith or Mary Jane's fault, it is ours as a collective.

What is the fix? Do we turn off oil usage? Do we just drill in other countries?
...

Then focus on GETTING OFF OF OIL as our fuel of choice.:mad:

There IS a solution. It's here TODAY. It's here NOW. It can be done over the next couple of years, IF we have the organization and desire to truly change as a society.



9473


This week we passed the 2,300 pump mark on the number of E85 pumps in this country.

http://e85prices.com

We have the technology TODAY to create and replace ALL of the oil we currently import, OR all of the oil we drill offshore.


9473

The first commercially functioning municipal waste to ethanol plant opened three weeks ago in Iowa.

We have enough corn now to replace almost a third of our gasoline, IF everyone who had a flex-fuel vehicle actually had a pump close by and used it. We could begin NEXT YEAR with an "open fuel standard", to require ALL new cars to be E85 capable. It would add about $100 to the price of a new car.

We can make ethanol from corn. From sugar cane (http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/role-for-ag-in-advanced-biofuels/1837573.aspx). From sugar beets. From municipal waste (http://domesticfuel.com/2010/05/06/plant-makes-fuel-from-waste-and-fiber/). From switchgrass (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/cnw/article.jsp?content=20100525_092502_1_cnw_cnw). From wood chips now.

We are working on ethanol from Algea now, and it's expected to be commercially viable within a couple years.

What we need is the political will to make it so. Just go ask Brazil, who moved from a gasoline and oil importing nation, to an exporting one, because they required cars to use ethanol.

[Buster]

There IS a solution. It's here TODAY. It's here NOW. It can be done over the next couple of years, IF we have the organization and desire to truly change as a society.



9473



This week we passed the 2,300 pump mark on the number of E85 pumps in this country.




http://e85prices.com




We have the technology TODAY to create and replace ALL of the oil we currently import, OR all of the oil we drill offshore.





9473





The first commercially functioning municipal waste to ethanol plant opened three weeks ago in Iowa.




We have enough corn now to replace almost a third of our gasoline, IF everyone who had a flex-fuel vehicle actually had a pump close by and used it. We could begin NEXT YEAR with an "open fuel standard", to require ALL new cars to be E85 capable. It would add about $100 to the price of a new car.




We can make ethanol from corn. From sugar cane (http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/role-for-ag-in-advanced-biofuels/1837573.aspx). From sugar beets. From municipal waste (http://domesticfuel.com/2010/05/06/plant-makes-fuel-from-waste-and-fiber/). From switchgrass (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/cnw/article.jsp?content=20100525_092502_1_cnw_cnw). From wood chips now.




We are working on ethanol from Algea now, and it's expected to be commercially viable within a couple years.




What we need is the political will to make it so. Just go ask Brazil, who moved from a gasoline and oil importing nation, to an exporting one, because they required cars to use ethanol.




I'm all for it...Maybe my next generation of cars will be able to use it..we'll see.

[Steadygain]

This is an absolute disaster.

I guess we'll have to wait 10 years to really know the effects

Maybe things aren't nearly as 'BAD' as it seems.

Last summer, 20 years after the Exxon spill of 11 million gallons of crude into Prince William Sound, scientists took 9,000 samples from holes dug along the impacted shoreline.

They found OIL in:
A. Less than 1/4th
B. 1/4th
C. 1/3rd
D. 1/2 or more

The OIL that was found:
A. Is no longer a threat to any life form and things are on the mend.
B. Is associated with breakdown products that will continue to enter the food chain for years to come.

31 species of Wildlife were impacted by the spill, and 20 years later:
A. 7/8ths have fully recovered
B. 3/4ths have fully recovered
C. 1/3rd have fully recovered
D. 1/4th at best have fully recovered

Wildlife that was once hugely abundant:
A. 20 years later are filling the Sound again
B. 20 years later remain absent from the Sound.

Well this is a good place to start.

Reflect on these and let me know what you think is true.

To honestly understand the Gulf Oil Spill - which now has an OIL cloud bigger than the State of Maryland and Delaware combined.

I'd have to cover the Wildlife Species in the Gulf and along the coasts and in the Marshs. Would have to explain how the currents move and interact in that region with the rest of the Ocean.

Would have to explain the LONG TERM consequences of what would happen with even LOW-LEVEL contamination on species such as bluefin tuna, bottlenose dolphins, sperm whales, and manatees --

and all the more on 'humans' who may consume tainted food.

Anyone know where the 'Greatest Coastal Wetland System in America' is ?

[Frixxxx]

We are working on ethanol from Algea now, and it's expected to be commercially viable within a couple years.




What we need is the political will to make it so. Just go ask Brazil, who moved from a gasoline and oil importing nation, to an exporting one, because they required cars to use ethanol.



James, once again, the people of the United States ARE the political movement. We are a nation of the people by the people.

If we as a society make it so, then we win. I would give anything to run my motorcycle on ethanol. But pay some farmers to start growing Beets, and stop paying them to grow nothing.:mad:

[alevin]

Rested acres are rested for more than one reason, not just to prevent overproduction of a particular crop and support crop prices.

crop rotation for soil nutrition, Frixxx. Can't keep growing the same crop on the same acres every year, unless use massive inputs of fossil-fuel based fertilizer.

Other thing is the Dust Bowl happened because too much marginal land in the wrong climate regions got put under the plow and drought led to massive losses of topsoil due to lack of vegetation.

Sometimes acres are fallowed because the soil needs to store up soil moisture for more than one year before it can grow a crop again-dryland farming.

[Steadygain]

The problem is we are powerless to do anything except plead with those in charge.
This is the most important underlying TRUTH

Those in charge need to be reminded. It is not Joe Smith or Mary Jane's fault, it is ours as a collective.
I will PROVE - you WRONG - the collective are powerless ;)

What is the fix? Do we turn off oil usage? Do we just drill in other countries?
I'll tell you somethings you don't know yet.



That is exactly what this administration has been waiting for...a call to get us off the oil and on to the "green" options of his cronies.

Then let's make this a Political Discussion and I will gladly bring out the FACTS. :D




J
James, once again, the people of the United States ARE the political movement. We are a nation of the people by the people.
I'll stick with the Subject of OIL and Natural Gas -- :p




Rested acres are rested for more than one reason, not just to prevent overproduction of a particular crop and support crop prices.

Sometimes acres are fallowed because the soil needs to store up soil moisture for more than one year before it can grow a crop again-dryland farming.

'Rested acres' -- Excellent Point.

I'll start with the 44 million acres of Federal Public Lands that are now leased to energy companies - overseen by the Bureau of Land Management.

Will PROVE what ONE Administration can do if they want to do it.

[Bullitt]

Not once did I say we need to fix the problem. Instead I said we need to understand it. Get the facts to humans from elementary school to grad school in hopes of people taking steps to understand the problem and work towards a fix sooner than later. You can't fix what you can't understand.

Steady, I saw a show a few years back on the 20th anniversary and from what I remember, the oil company report said the oil was gone and independent researchers said it will take centuries to go away. I also remember that the initial lawsuit was something hundred million dollars against Exxon and it was mitigated to some hundred thousand. I know Killer Whales have not recovered.

If humans learn anything from this, I'll be amazed. The same things are happening now as before; everybody would rather point the finger at somebody else to make somebody else the bad guy while the man in the mirror looks like the good shepherd.

On a positive note, there is probably a kid somewhere in this world sleeping through middle school math who has an answer to our alternative energy problems. I'm thinking that whatever we will be using in 50 years for energy hasn't even been thought of yet. Since we brought it up, I do not believe ethanol is the answer in the long term.

[Frixxxx]

Not once did I say we need to fix the problem. Instead I said we need to understand it.

Roger!:cool:

[Steadygain]

Last summer, 20 years after the Exxon spill of 11 million gallons of crude into Prince William Sound, scientists took 9,000 samples from holes dug along the impacted shoreline.

They found OIL in:
D. 1/2 or more

The OIL that was found:
B. Is associated with breakdown products that will continue to enter the food chain for years to come.

31 species of Wildlife were impacted by the spill, and 20 years later:
C. 1/3rd have fully recovered

Wildlife that was once hugely abundant:
B. 20 years later remain absent from the Sound.




Not once did I say we need to fix the problem. Instead I said we need to understand it. Get the facts to humans from elementary school to grad school in hopes of people taking steps to understand the problem and work towards a fix sooner than later. You can't fix what you can't understand.

You and I are on the same page brother -- we really are. We also need to realize that the 'Problem' is way beyond the Gulf.

Steady, I saw a show a few years back on the 20th anniversary

Bullitt, People have pretty much been convinced throughout the years that they could fill the streams and oceans to the highest extent, kill off the animals, do whatever they feel like doing to all the land -- and the Earth could not be damaged. There would be NO consequence to 'our collective health'.

If humans learn anything from this, I'll be amazed.
Fortunately this is the most wonderful aspect of our present period of history -- Humans can now no longer ignore the FACTS.

Yet look over the posts and you'll find that if a Dem. is President - it means 'Global Warming' is totally garbage -- ;)

The same things are happening now as before; everybody would rather point the finger at somebody else to make somebody else the bad guy while the man in the mirror looks like the good shepherd.

AMEN Brother !!! Very well put.

Since we brought it up, I do not believe ethanol is the answer in the long term.

They fought with all their might to put in an ethanol plant near where I live. Our community -- proved that even though they claimed to be a 'Green Company' and would do everything possible to conserve and protect the environment.

We PROVED what happens with the 'Fresh Water' they use and the extent by which they use it. You talk about an 'uproar'.

Local politicians didn't like 'us' coming against them in such big numbers and 'WE' shot them down. Our water is good and the company went somewhere else. :D:D

[Steadygain]

Why do I even care ?? Because I care a whole lot about our country and what is happening to the land, water, and all involved.

First – what is really going on and WHO is responsible?

Are you familiar with the ‘Halliburton loophole’?

This is something Congress inserted into LAW at the request of a former Halliburton Executive, then Vice President of the tried and true Holy and Perfect United States of America (Dick Cheney) in 2005. Now get this folks, cause it shows the Power of ONE Man over the entire country. This makes the Energy Companies able to drill as never before because it totally exempts them from provisions of the Safe Drinking Water Act.

Now that may shock some of you – but here it’s important to remember that not only is Dick Cheney a Republican (which means he is the purest of the pure and therefore is not capable of doing anything that could possibly be wrong for our country) but he is also big in the Tea Party.

So here it’s important to know that many ‘gas drillers’ found it next to impossible to work in a way that LEGALLY operated within the provisions of the Safe Drinking Water Act. The 2005 Energy Bill also EXEMPTED ‘drillers’ from storm water runoff provisions of the Clean Water Act.

It makes us wonder, ‘How do Republicans respond to keeping the LEGAL sacred and vital essential aspects of our LIFE and HEALTH – ‘LEGAL’?
To answer this question – Congress also provided EXEMPTIONS from provisions of the Clear Air Act, the National Environmental Policy Act, the Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act. The last of which allows gas companies to AVOID REPORTING their toxic emissions to the Environmental Protection Agency’s Toxics Release Inventory.

The Gas Companies pump chemicals into the ground under high pressure to fracture rock formations. Hydraulic fracturing fluids contain a TOXIC cocktail of petroleum distillates – benzene, toluene, and other CARCINOGENS. Fractured formations are then dewatered to get the gas.

Over a quarter of drilling permits – which is well over 6,000 – approved on Bureau of Land Management lands between 2006 and 2008 were granted under a special ‘Categorical Exclusion’ RULE that ELIMATES the need for lengthy environmental review.

Information is all available through the National Wildlife Federation in which I am a long standing member and supporter.

[Silverbird]

BP: We're bringing oil to American shores (tm)
[satire T shirt]
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/25/smallbusiness/bp_parody_products/index.htm

[James48843]

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/25/nation/la-na-oil-spill-subsidies-20100525

"Oil companies have a rich history of U.S. subsidies
Some say the Gulf of Mexico catastrophe can be linked to Congress' policy of oil-friendly tax breaks and financial benefits.

May 25, 2010|
By Kim Geiger and Tom Hamburger,
Tribune Washington Bureau

Reporting from Washington — It was close to 2 a.m. when Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) and others on a House-Senate conference committee saw just how much clout the oil industry had when it came to winning special tax breaks and other financial benefits from Congress.

At issue was the 2005 Energy Policy Act — the largest energy bill in years. The committee chairman, Rep. Joe L. Barton (R- Texas), a friend of the industry, had saved some big issues for the end: billions of dollars in tax and royalty relief to encourage drilling for oil and gas in the Gulf of Mexico and other offshore areas. There was even a $50-million annual earmark to support technical research for the industry.

At the time, drilling was already proceeding at a brisk pace, and industry profits were setting records. "With all the money they are making," Markey said to his top energy aide, who recalled the scene, "why does the government need to subsidize their work and their research?"

That point of view did not prevail. The bleary-eyed lawmakers wanted no part of Markey's amendments. The bill was eventually passed in both houses with bipartisan support. Notably, then- Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois voted in favor.

Today, Markey and other critics complain that these policies have cost the U.S. Treasury tens of billions in lost revenue, and led to a reckless search for oil in fragile environments like the deep floor of the Gulf of Mexico. He and others say the unfolding catastrophe at the Deepwater Horizon rig, which exploded April 20 in a disaster that killed 11, can be directly linked to oil-friendly legislation over the last two decades.

...

But there is little disagreement that the industry received significant federal support for such deep-water drilling. Since the government began aggressively issuing offshore drilling permits under President Reagan, the industry has received tens of billions of dollars in tax breaks and subsidies, including exemptions from royalty payments — the fees due when a company extracts resources from U.S. government property.

The royalty waiver program was established by Congress in 1995, when oil was selling for about $18 a barrel and drilling in deep water was seen as unprofitable without a subsidy. Today, oil sells for about $70 a barrel, but the subsidy continues.

The Government Accountability Office estimates that the deep-water waiver program could cost the Treasury $55 billion or more in lost revenue over the life of the leases, depending on the price of oil and gas and the performances of the wells.

Congress had originally intended to provide royalty relief only when oil prices were especially low. But an Interior Department error in the drafting of contracts in the 1990s led the industry to argue against pegging the relief to oil prices.

Oil companies won a lawsuit last year requiring the government to pay back $2.1 billion in royalties from previous years, including about $240 million to BP.

...

"No reputable economist believes that increasing the amount of [offshore] drilling we do will have any real impact on energy prices," said Rep. Nick J. Rahall II (D-W.Va.), chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, in a hearing last year as he called for the end of some of the royalty waiver programs and for a more cautious approach to drilling.

In addition, several analysts say, billions more have been lost to the Treasury through another form of subsidy — favorable packaging of federal leases sold by the Interior Department."


(More to this article at the link above.)

[Steadygain]

Now I know most of you are probably thinking how can all this be happening and who would allow such a thing to happen?
Well for years and years – at least prior to the recent Bush Administration – only about 1% of OIL and GAS leases on public lands were contested in court. So what caused the change?
During the Bush Administration – Orders were given to expedite drilling; which forced the Bureau of Land Management to lease the lands to energy – development companies.
Probably the worst method of extracting OIL is in situ extraction for ‘shale oil’. In 1982 a huge problem occurred and the Regan administration deemed shale-oil production unfeasible and cancelled it.
Bush revived it by granting research and development in Colorado and Utah – giving 5 parcels covering 7 square mile each. The oil companies are buying water rights needed for wildlife, livestock, and human consumption. To develop shale oil commercially companies would need 400,000 acre-feet of water, more than Denver consumes annually.
So whatever -- Bush was Mr. Oil and business is business and let's not forget how that Halliburton Executive raked in the Business with the Iraq War.

http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/Media-Center/News-by-Topic/Wildlife/2010/05-24-10-Permits-Still-Flowing-for-Riskier-and-Deeper-Wells.aspx


But what about Obama -- Steady -- oh surely he's not like Bush. :rolleyes:

Well on the Surface -- he'll probably come off pretty good
In his radio address Saturday, President Barack Obama decried the "cozy" relationship between oil companies and the agencies that regulate them. The president also promised that "no permits for drilling new wells will go forward until the 30-day safety and environmental review I requested is complete."
What's going on in 'Real Life' that they don't tell us ??

But today, the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html) reports that "federal regulators have granted at least 19 environmental waivers for gulf drilling projects and at least 17 drilling permits, most of which were for types of work like that on the Deepwater Horizon shortly before it exploded, pouring a ceaseless current of oil into the Gulf of Mexico."

So what can we do -- probably Nothing

Mmmmm - well we can be grateful for the 6 to 12 new positions put in place to serve the President's wife -- for at least 1.5 Million annually

And I guess we can be grateful that all kind of political clowns and representatives went to China to bow down and be submissive.

But most of all we can be grateful for a President that openly and strongly stands for a State like AZ -- that really spends a lot of time making sure they are doing everything they can to do the right thing.

Otherwise he could look like a wimp and let foreign political clowns come in and give them a platform to blast the good and decent people the country really does have.

OK - -off my soap box

BTW - Was going to elaborate on what's happening with the Gulf Oil spill but it's to extensive and way to sad to talk about.

[Steadygain]

The Government Accountability Office estimates that the deep-water waiver program could cost the Treasury $55 billion or more in lost revenue

This is in all honestly what makes me so furious about the way these political clowns act. They think it all comes down to money and like everyone should be thrilled -- we're getting so many $ Billion.

So how about we simply say 'No Boats or Ships' in the Gulf period - because we don't want to spread the garbage all over the ships and let it go anywhere else.

Mmmm how much would that cost to totally shut down all shipping involved along the coast?

Most of the real -- serious and most devastating consequences don't have a 'dollar amount'. How can you put a dollar amount on wiping out waters generation after generation have enjoyed.

There are enormous industries associated with LA alone - so we've just wiped out everything they've known for ages.

Then Mr. BP CEO/Exec has an interview last night and is talking about what Silverbird ;):) (heart going pitter patty and fanning myself) just mentioned -- 'the oil coming to the shores' :rolleyes: and he says 'Well we now have reports of OIL flowing up on the shores of TX, LA, GA, FL (sounded like 5 or 6 States) -- now all of this is brand new and the first time it's happened in all these places. And he says but all that oil has been tested and had 'Nothing to do with them'.

Whatever -- if the Politicians and the Higher Ups could get in the same trouble as me and have to deal with whatever kind of consequences I'd have to deal with -- I would honestly feel a lot better -- but what makes me mad as hell is that all these Major Heartless Criminals never get touched. Along those lines I feel the same way with these Priests messing with kids. Why can't we just publicly hang them?

OK -- emergency mediation -- breath in silk -- blow out bubbles

[Steadygain]

The people of the United States ARE the political movement. We are a nation of the people by the people.

If we as a society make it so, then we win.

Frixxxx,
My brother and friend -- I hope I didn't come across as being argumentative with you (or anyone esle) yesterday.


The people of the United States ARE the political movement. We are a nation of the people by the people.

I (with undeniable bias) believe the United States is the greatest country in the world. I have always known incredible abundance and freedoms far beyond the world population. Have always believed that if we live 'right' and work hard to achieve our dreams and goals that nothing is out of our reach --- and for me personally that was a living reality.

So the 'Belief' that 'we' - the NATION - are the political movement has been deeply ingrained and reinforced by almost everyone throughout my life.

We are a NATION 'by the people and for the people' was what I had been taught from essentially the first moment.

I NOW feel this 'Belief' must have it's origin during the 'Conquering Years' - as the United States was increasing being discovered, settled, and more and more was taken until everything was theirs.

That would give this BELIEF a far deeper and more sacred and significant meaning and back then would have undoubtedly been associated with a much greater character of 'unity'.

But things have totally changed and nothing is anything like it use to be. As Corporations and Industries came to power the FOCUS shifted to MONEY and ECONOMIC GROWTH. PEOPLE never dreamed their endless dedication and committment to spur PROGRESS would in the long run make them worth LESS and LESS as the Corporations and Industries became increasingly powerful.

We are a NATION 'by the people and for the people'.

I would say if anyone honestly looked at how everything has been throughout our lifetime (here I mean every single person) we would have to acknowledge the world is nothing like we thought it was. The Corporations and Industries have long been in control and anything and everything that makes them stronger and more powerful and more wealthy Dominates Society. They have taken anything and everything they want and the Land and Water and the Environment are nothing but their property to use in any manner they want. The Politicians are in place -- and have been in place -- way more for Corporate and Industrial Interests before anything else. This is the System we HAVE and both Parties are EQUALLY Guilty.

If we as a society make it so, then we win

The only way that could be possible - is if all of us were on the same page and seriously let TRUTH override our 'Political Belief' that one party (or another) is going to change things.

WE - as a SOCIETY - would have to make the LAND and WATER and the areas we LIVE our priority and REFUSE to allow Corporations or Industries to destory what belongs to us.

Then, and only then, could we win.

[Warrenlm]

New proposal being discussed on CNBC from someone that all BP executives should have to give up their salaries and bonuses. Now that will help. One commenter with tongue in cheek said they should also have to stand in Time Square naked.

[James48843]

Nearshore map forecast- 72 hours.

9487



Offshore trajectory extended range forecast, next 72 hours:

9488

[Buster]

YELLOWSTONE SUPERVOLCANO GETTING READY TO BLOW ITS CORK

Posted by geologist Christopher C. Sanders on January 1, 2009.
"I am advising all State officials around Yellowstone National Park for a potential State of Emergency. In the last week over 252 earthquakes have been observed by the USGS. We have a 3D view on the movement of magma rising underground. We have all of the pre warning signs of a major eruption from a super volcano. - I want everyone to leave Yellowstone National Park and for 200 miles around the volcano caldera."

Want something to worry about?...When this happens, there will be nothing left on Earth to worry about, especially an oil spill..

http://www.earthmountainview.com/yellowstone/yellowstone.htm

[PessOptimist]

Geez, Buster can't you hold this eruption off till the end of July? We have had a family/friend vacation planned to Yellowstone for a long time. Schedule it for early evening so we can all be sitting around enjoying the day and have time to say :wow look at th..."

I think we had this conversation before.

James48843, am I wrong in believing you are enjoying this ecological disaster in the Gulf of Mexico?

[XL-entLady]

YELLOWSTONE SUPERVOLCANO GETTING READY TO BLOW ITS CORK

Posted by geologist Christopher C. Sanders on January 1, 2009.
"I am advising all State officials around Yellowstone National Park for a potential State of Emergency. In the last week over 252 earthquakes have been observed by the USGS. We have a 3D view on the movement of magma rising underground. We have all of the pre warning signs of a major eruption from a super volcano. - I want everyone to leave Yellowstone National Park and for 200 miles around the volcano caldera."

Want something to worry about?...When this happens, there will be nothing left on Earth to worry about, especially an oil spill..

http://www.earthmountainview.com/yellowstone/yellowstone.htm


"An unqualified geologist is in a bit of trouble with the United States Geological Survey after issuing an bogus evacuation warning for the area surrounding Yellowstone National Park.

On Jan. 1, Christopher C. Sanders posted a YouTube video and web announcement warning everyone within a 200-mile radius of Yellowstone's volcanic caldera to evacuate, and used a USGS logo to do so. He was apparently spooked by the large number of small Yellowstone earthquakes in recent days.

The only problem? The USGS has seen no data suggesting a supervolcanic eruption is on the way and is/was not issuing any sort of warning."

http://blog.powelltribune.com/2009/01/email-interview-christopher-sanders-and.html

The National Park Service is my agency. So I knew this guy was bogus. Yea, super volcano is real. But the likelyhood it will blow is like asteroid hitting the earth. The oil spill is already being proven as the worst ecological disaster of modern times. I'm not worried. I'm sick over the devastation.

[Steadygain]

"An unqualified geologist is in a bit of trouble with the United States Geological Survey after issuing an bogus evacuation warning for the area surrounding Yellowstone National Park.

The National Park Service is my agency.

Then you have my heart and soul.

So I knew this guy was bogus. Yea, super volcano is real. But the likelyhood it will blow is like asteroid hitting the earth. The oil spill is already being proven as the worst ecological disaster of modern times. I'm not worried. I'm sick over the devastation.

Lady, you are such a sweetheart. ;):)

My dear wonderful friend,
The Yellowstone Supervolcano -- along with numerous other aspects of our planet have been extensively researched. Perhaps the most important feature is understanding how 'Cycles' are hugely built into the design of our Living Planet.

We can not change the cycle by which the Yellowstone Supervolcano has its existence and its long standing nature; anymore than we can change the cycle by which 'Earthquates' are designed with 'faults' which have long been known.

The Yellowstone Supervolcano is 'overdue' and anyone who has taken the time to honestly and objectively -- deeply study the Earth and learn the facinating designs by which it exists knows this.

Here the important -- perhaps most important thing to realize -- is that when any event becomes known -- The MEDIA (under direction of Government and Higher Authority) will always do everything possible to cover the TRUTH and put the population at ease.

Example -- Gulf Oil Spill -- 42,000 gallons a day. Followed by my post of saying -- what a crock. Followed by another post saying it would take at least 260 days to even get anywhere near the Exxon Spill and how 'we are better able to deal with this'.

Buster, we don't know what we happen. One day at a time my friend and make the most of each day.

[Buster]

.

James48843, am I wrong in believing you are enjoying this ecological disaster in the Gulf of Mexico?
That's was my point;)


Buster, we don't know what we happen
Steady (Mr.hart) watch this video to the end..and please try to speak coherently.
cZJEhlIefxA

[CountryBoy]

That's was my point;)


Steady (Mr.hart) watch this video to the end..and please try to speak coherently.
cZJEhlIefxA


I get the same feeling, to much enthusiam.

[James48843]

James48843, am I wrong in believing you are enjoying this ecological disaster in the Gulf of Mexico?

There is no joy in any of this.

There is only ecological disaster.

Death. Pollution. Harm.

Can we learn from what has happened?

Can we change so that it never happens again?

The Santa Barbara oil disaster of 1969 dumped 200,000 gallons of oil into the ocean over a period of 19 days. It awakened the nation to the hazards of off-shore drilling, and, as a result, there were changes to our policies. The EPA was created to help reduce pollution in our nation. If Santa Barbara hadn't happened, I don't know if we would even have an EPA today.

This accident is far, far larger and potentially more devastating than Santa Barbara ever was. The well is now gushing, by some estimates, a million and a half gallons PER DAY. And it's been going on for more than a month. And, if the current "top kick" plan fails, could continue to go on for months. MONTHS.

No, there is no joy in Mudville.

[Steadygain]

Steady (Mr.hart) watch this video to the end..and please try to speak coherently.


I can't watch it and don't want to see this message of how 'I'm violating - this and that - restrictions and such'.

Always 'fear' they're going to think I'm trying to get on a porn site or something so I hate it when that happens.

Buster,
This is something I've already studied on a pretty extensive level and all the facts are there and can not be dismissed or under appreciated. Yes it will be by far the most serious Natural Disaster our country has known so far.

Well I'll be busy most of this morning and the afternoon will also be packed. So won't have much time to get back.

Asking me to speak coherently -- is like telling a baby who hasn't even learned to crawl -- to get up and run across the football field.

[Warrenlm]

Never fear, CNN is on the job. Latest news was an interview with a cleanup worker who said he was awakened at 3am without notice and told to report. He said it was quite disturbing. The CNN reporter clarified that the worker had been awakened to attend a class on cleanup. The reporter said she would press BP to find out why he was awakened at 3am without notice. .....You just can't make it up.

[Warrenlm]

Update on Antoine's being awakened. He was being awakened to go to Grand Isle before BOs visit. It turned out that he did not like being awakened and the bus ride and decided after getting on the bus that he was not being paid enough and quit. I guess we need to press on with that unemployment benefits extension. Dumb CNN did not even make that connection.

Different subject.
Has anyone noticed that the individual people who have the monkey on their back to actually make a decision on something, from when to turn a wheel to big things, are continually besieged and belittled by individuals whose major, and apparently sole talent is to think of things to ask about?

[DAWG51]

As a resident of the Gulfcoast - Here is a bright perspective.
The amount of Deep Horizon oil leaked into the Gulf of Mexico over the past 85 days is equivalent to approximately 1 gallon of oil in 3 billion gallons of seawater. (Assuming 60,000 barrels of oil spilled per day). This equates to 1 ounce of oil distributed among 937 In-ground, residential grade swimming pools.

Obviously, the oil is not equally distributed throughout the Gulf of Mexico and this does not help the beaches, marshes and fisheries that are already soiled. But, it makes one wonder if a small hurricane or tropical depression (Bonnie) might provide some nice mixing/dilution.

Looking at nasty oil on the beach is depressing. Pondering these type of perspectives makes me feel good. :)

[Buster]

As a resident of the Gulfcoast - Here is a bright perspective.
The amount of Deep Horizon oil leaked into the Gulf of Mexico over the past 85 days is equivalent to approximately 1 gallon of oil in 3 billion gallons of seawater. (Assuming 60,000 barrels of oil spilled per day). This equates to 1 ounce of oil distributed among 937 In-ground, residential grade swimming pools.

Obviously, the oil is not equally distributed throughout the Gulf of Mexico and this does not help the beaches, marshes and fisheries that are already soiled. But, it makes one wonder if a small hurricane or tropical depression (Bonnie) might provide some nice mixing/dilution.

Looking at nasty oil on the beach is depressing. Pondering these type of perspectives makes me feel good. :)

I appreciate your perspective....One scientist/environmentalist was saying the other night, that the oil if it could stay at sea longer would eventually dissipate and most likely if it reached the shores, would be as tar balls/patties and those are much more manageable than a slick...But On a less liberal, less crisis mongering network..they were saying that plane fly overs and search vessels cannot not find but a few and very little patches of oil remaining in the Gulf as sea...Hope that is a positive sign as well.

[Buster]

Sorry for the fact that your gloom and doom Kool-aid sales are down...:laugh:

BUT....
The Louisiana Oil fouled marshes are coming back..better than ever


http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/100480654.html

[Buster]

Microbes are eating BP oil without using up oxygen

"WASHINGTON – Government scientists (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_sc/us_sci_gulf_spill_where_s_the_oil#) studying the BP disaster are reporting the best possible outcome: Microbes are consuming the oil in the Gulf without depleting the oxygen in the water and creating "dead zones" where fish cannot survive.
Outside scientists said this so far vindicates the difficult and much-debated decision by BP and the government to use massive amounts of chemical dispersants (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_sc/us_sci_gulf_spill_where_s_the_oil#) deep underwater to break up the oil before it reached the surface.
Oxygen levels in some places where the BP oil spilled are down by 20 percent, but that is not nearly low enough to create dead zones, according to the 95-page report released Tuesday.
In an unusual move, BP released 771,000 gallons of chemical dispersant (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_sc/us_sci_gulf_spill_where_s_the_oil#) about a mile deep, right at the spewing wellhead instead of on the surface, to break down the oil into tiny droplets.
The idea was to make it easier for oil-eating microbes to do their job. But the risk was that the microbes would use up the oxygen in the water. So BP had to perform a delicate balancing act"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_sc/us_sci_gulf_spill_where_s_the_oil

[Steel_Magnolia]

Scientists find 'dramatic' damage to marine life near BP spill site

November 6, 2010


Scientists have found evidence of "dramatic" damage to deep-sea coral near the site of the Gulf oil disaster, with one biologist describing it as a shocking find that "slapped you in the face."...http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/06/gulf.coral.damage/index.html?hpt=C1

[Steadygain]

I think to the largest degree it feels like I'm reading a 'Fantasy Story' - mmm -- more like a 'Romance Novel -- with warmth and glitter'.

In the Story -- wholly spread by the Media which gives the grounding to all our beliefs... :)

The USA is the Knight in Shining Armor -- always and forever doing good and serving the interests of the people, our planet, and the environment.

GB is the 'evil' that snuck in to destory things -- so the US immediately turns everything into a 'money thing' -- forever and ever stretching the 'facts' against the foreign Nation and 'making them pay'.

Meanwhile -- the recent VP (oopps :o) who raked in a fortune with the Iraq War. Well -- sugar and dumplings -- it turns out that his company (ahhh I believe that starts with an 'H') --

Do you mean the same 'H' Loophole -- that made it possible to ignore and bypass many laws meant for our safety (water, land, air)...

Yes - I do -- but please allow me to continue....;)

Well it turns out that 'independent tests' show the concrete they used are most centrally the basis behind the whole disaster....

What :mad: That means not only were we responsible -- but we might have to pay...

Now calm down little fella --- ain't no way that's going to happen. It wouldn't look good.

The 'Image' and the 'Perception that grounds our Beliefs' are everything.

Therefore: The extent by which the 'Chemicals Used' and their adverse effects on the environment. The manner by which life (the food chain) will be damaged for at least the next 30 to 50 years .....

Sorry -- need to run --- 'emergency' ......

[Birchtree]

I like my HAL and will continue to hold it and accumulate more.

[Steadygain]

Sorry all --- but my job comes first .... emergency done.

Anyway -- with my spare me the BS and give me the 'Facts' lifestyle that I prefer to maintain...

I'd rather gather my information from the people who are most likely to give the 'Facts' to the highest degree... and whose lives are most sincerely dedicated to the 'Facts'....

So I turn more to the 'Environmental Agencies'
..............................'Sceintists'
..............................'Independent LAB analysis - free of bias'

I dare to go to the sources -- that defy the 'fantasy dream world' and make me deal with reality.

But it's weird -- because in doing that you find another 'spill' never made the press. You find the extent by which so many details remain hidden.

No problem Bro -- Making money -- and having a willingness to invest in companies most likely to give 'profits' is 100% the opposite of:

Human Rights concerns
Environmental concerns
and everything else

I'm simply expressing 'true environmental concerns' related to Oil (and all connected with the BP spill)

[nnuut]

From what I have read the damage they are seeing is minuscule compared to the estimated damage that would have happened to the shore and under water environment had they not used the chemical dispersants. Logic demands that an oil spill of this magnitude Will Harm the environment, I think we got off easy.:cool:

[Buster]

Panel: Dollars did not trump safety in Gulf spill




WASHINGTON – The presidential commission investigating the BP Gulf oil spill challenged claims in Congress that the oil company and others sacrificed safety to cuts cost. In preliminary findings issued Monday, the panel's investigators supported many of BP's own conclusions about what led to the disaster.
The panel's chief investigator, Fred H. Bartlit Jr., announced 13 principal findings, many of which seemed to track with investigations of the blowout, including BP's. Bartlit said he agreed with "about 90 percent" of the company's own conclusions.
Under commission procedures, Bartlit presented the findings to the seven-member panel.
One determination in particular challenges the narrative that has dominated the headlines and Democratic probes in Congress since the April 20 incident killed 11 and unleashed more than 200 million gallons of crude into the Gulf of Mexico: that BP made perilous choices to save money.
"We see no instance where a decision-making person or group of people sat there aware of safety risks, aware of costs and opted to give up safety for costs," Bartlit said. "We do not say everything done was perfectly safe. We're saying that people have said people traded safety for dollars. We studied the hell out of this. We welcome anybody who gives us something we missed."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101108/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_investigation

[Birchtree]

I'm glad I had the courage to track BP to the bottom around $27.86 - I have a sweet profit at this time and will continue to buy all the way back to $60. Selling today for $43.

[Steadygain]

From what I have read the damage they are seeing is minuscule compared to the estimated damage that would have happened to the shore and under water environment had they not used the chemical dispersants.

Logic demands that an oil spill of this magnitude Will Harm the environment, I think we got off easy.:cool:

My friend - honestly - I think considering the enormity of all that has happened and all that continues to happen 'we' are very fortunate things are not a whole lot worse.

I can gather some of the information regarding the 'Chemical Dispersants' and why the USA quickly put an halt to their use.

My only point to begin with - was in regards to the true environmental damage that highly exceeds what our 'media' would ever in any manner be allowed to be aired.

I'm simply reflecting on the 40,000 barrels a day (and my immediate post about the absurity of that LOW number) - and how obviously is was used to quell the fears.

The Bottom Line is 'The Damage was Minuscule' - mainly because it had to be projected that way for 'Political and Economic' reasons. All the more even if one of the highest US Politicians 'ever' - if it is found his company was mostly at fault -- there is 'no way' that will be aired.

Man I just live in the world and observe -- that's all. Simply telling it like it is.





Panel: Dollars did not trump safety in Gulf spill


I'm not out to argue against the American media and all it's designed to convince us.

I believe the 'dollars spent' were most designed to throw it under the carpet and get everyones' focus on the matter being 'over.



I'm glad I had the courage to track BP to the bottom around $27.86 - I have a sweet profit at this time and will continue to buy all the way back to $60. Selling today for $43.

:D:D I'm glad you're my big brother.

Big MONEY is made by paying attention

[nnuut]

Steady I followed this thing very closely, but what the heck, what do I know. I only call it like I see it, and that's how I see it. Where did all of the Oil go?:)

[Steadygain]

Steady I followed this thing very closely, but what the heck, what do I know. I only call it like I see it, and that's how I see it. Where did all of the Oil go?:)

We're cool Norm.

The truth is -- and I really mean this -- the truth for me began when I started doing my own research on Iran. What's totally flipped out is that I hated JC as much as Birch - and 100% for Military reasons.

What's all the more amazing is that my view of Iranians was identical to what that little scoundral expresses about another native population. What I knew back then was there was no way they'd ever get by with what they did and then saying a bunch of crap to boot. So it consumed everything I lived for and everything I did. Then JC pulls the plug.

So I left mad as hell -- I mean I could hardly see straight -- because I didn't get a chance to rid the world of hundreds of thousands. :D;) When I began deeply searching -- for everything I could find -- it was wholly to justify and 'support what I believed through and through'.

What I found was soooooo incredibly 'humbling' -- and all the more when I had to acknowledge the extent by which GB and the USA took everything and made them 'slaves'. When I saw the extent by which the CIA disrupted their country - for 'our benefit'. When I came to find how much more deeply their roots have gone for thousands of years beyond anything we as 'Americans' could remotely touch. When you look at 'The PEOPLE' and not a Politician or 'Religious Leader' - it's deeply humbling.

The TRUTH is they had every right to want 'The foreigners' OUT.

Now if we could insert -- Bach and Mozart ... Joplin too

When it comes to the Gulf Oil Spill - and to almost everything that has already happended and there is nothing we can do to take it back.

I say there is largely no use crying over 'spilt milk'.

In the same light I believe it is time to stop blaming Bush, Obama, or whoever the hell --

-- Deal with the issues at Hand and get things right.

-- When it come to matters like 'Gulf Oil' bring out the FACTS and let everyone know the TRUTH. When it comes to what is really going on in Afganistan - or wherever - no matter how 'horrible the truth may be' - bring it all out -- own up to it -- deal with it and move on to making the 'world' and all the more the USA a better place.

[Steadygain]

Hey ya' ll

Please take anything I say with a 'grain of salt' ....

...I'm NOT trying to lay a 'heavy trip' on anyone ...:o:sick:


...I'm just trying to figure out how we got to where we are .... and hope I can make my own little corner a litte better


Well have a good one :cool:

[WorkFE]

...I'm just trying to figure out how we got to where we are ....

The Lord and a sprinkle of evolution:D

[burrocrat]

The Lord and a sprinkle of evolution:D

ha! i didn't think you could say that on tv. i got a sprinkle of evolution right here... no offense lord.

[Steadygain]

The Lord and a sprinkle of evolution:D

Amazingly -- I think this is in fact the most basic underlying TRUTH and if only we (as in everyone on the planet) could see it and know it.

The Lord brought all things into being: With that knowledge we (as in every person to live) should be so deeply grounded in the Native American mindset that it's central to all the ways we interact with the Earth and with one another.

If only people could have known how deeply sacred our planet has been and more fully understood it as a Living Entity - a more 'Spiritual Life' from which every LIFE has its grounding and by which all LIFE is maintained.

If everyone could have started - and been grounded with the deepness of this underlying truth - and we from the depths of our hearts and lives strived to pay honor and respect to our Planet -- then the core problem behind most of our problems could not exist.

Instead we let Corporations and Companies from the Super Power Nations go throughout the entire planet and take anything and everything of value and left only waste and destruction behind.

and a sprinkle of evolution: With that knowledge we (as in every person to live) should be so deeply grounded in the mindset that we are totally 100% EQUAL that it's central to all the ways we interact with the Earth and with one another.

If the Vietnamese - the Chinese - the Koreans - the Japanese - the Germans - the Mexicans - are in any manner 'different' from one another then it is nothing more than 'evolutionary changes' -- AND it has nothing to do with White Anglo Saxon Protestants - having any trace of being 'Superior' ....

...simply because our 'evolutionary' characteristics are different and give us a tinge of being distinct.

The FACTS ARE - we are the newest breed - and the newest Nation. How can we then possibly believe that by virtue of our 'genetic roots' we have a 'God Given Right' to go to any other Nation and regard them in the lowest possible manner??

Thank You !!! I love it when something can be reduced to something very basic and be the 'Ultimate Truth'.