Air Traffic Controller Lets his Kid Talk to Pilots

[Buster]

I'm real Surprized Jim didn't post anything about this yet;



Air Traffic Controller Lets his Kid Talk to Pilots
http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinereporter/archives/196395.asp

I'm pretty sure the Dad was right there and really no one was in any real danger..the pilots all seemed to know it was a kid with his dad nearby..and went along with it....But HOLY-SH!T..Even as layed back as I am..I would know this was a major F-up on the controller's part..OUCH, may cost him his job..

[Viva_La_Migra]

I'm real Surprized Jim didn't post anything about this yet;



Air Traffic Controller Lets his Kid Talk to Pilots
http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinereporter/archives/196395.asp

I'm pretty sure the Dad was right there and really no one was in any real danger..the pilots all seemed to know it was a kid with his dad nearby..and went along with it....But HOLY-SH!T..Even as layed back as I am..I would know this was a major F-up on the controller's part..OUCH, may cost him his job..
Jim doesn't talk bad about union members. You should know that Buster!:cool:

Personally I think this is much ado about nothing. The kids were supervised and coached as to what to say to the pilots. It's not like the kids were manning the station while the dad took a smoke break! The most the controller should receive is a letter of reprimand and some additional training.

Buster, I was going to reprimand you for your use of the word SH!T since many of us now use the word Rahm in it's place, but upon further reflection, I thought better of it. One should never knowingly put Rahm after the word holy!:laugh: It's fracking sacrilegious!:nuts:

[James48843]

Nothing new there- they've been doing that at JFK Airport for over 40 years:

No9sIvwP2us
:D




from a Friend of mine:

Friday, March 05, 2010

When Daddy Let Me Drive (http://gettheflick.blogspot.com/2010/03/when-daddy-let-me-drive.html)



I can still remember the very first time my father pushed the bench seat back on the family station wagon, opened his arms to reach me clear over on the other side of the car and said, "Come on, son. You come over here and drive." The time was early '60's, before seat belts were much more than a nuisance when you sat on them.

I couldn't reach the pedals, hell, I could barely see over the dash. But I was driving and I was in heaven. I rocked the steering wheel this way and that, and remembering now it was probably only the play in the mechanism I was steering. But steer I did. Vroom, vroom!

Only I wasn't driving. My father was. And while I plowed down the highway (OK, our street) at breakneck speeds (OK, ten miles an hour) my father drove the car while I, well...I drove. And drove and drove and drove. For hours and hours (well OK, two or three minutes.)

It happened again yesterday only this time it wasn't me and it wasn't a station wagon. It was an air traffic controller from JFK, and his son was "controlling airplanes." Only he wasn't. His daddy was controlling them airplanes, folks, and his daddy could have probably controlled a dozen more without looking up from his nail file. That's why he's at JFK, sports fans. That JFK controller can fling the heavy metal without breaking a sweat and he has probably safely cared for more people by lunchtime than the average hospital cares for in a year.

Was the controller wrong to let his son parrot his words? Yes.

Was the controller jeopardizing safety? No.

Was the supervisor jeopardizing safety? No.

Did the media, the FAA and the Congress pile on this poor man? Yes.

Were rules broken? I don't know, but if they were I can't find them.

I was working at O'Hare Approach one afternoon in the late '80s when Slewball (that's what we called him because he was bald) got a pale look, cocked his head half around like the RCA dog and then went "splat!" face down on the console in front of his radar scope. His face hit that rubber mat with a sound like a sack of wet laundry hitting a tile floor. Splat.

And then I saw the supervisor calmly come over, grab Slewball's chair, wheel him out of the way and help a new controller get his headset on, get plugged in and then helped him identify and begin to separate and control Slewball's airplanes, whizzing around the sky at six miles a minute.

Slew was still in his chair drooling like a teenage boy at a Taylor Swift concert when the paramedics from the airport showed up a few minutes later. The paramedics carried ol' Slew out on a platter (OK, a stretcher) while the rest of us tried to crack jokes to calm our nerves. "Hey Slew..if you don't make it can I trade shifts with you next week before you take that dirt nap?"

JFK was like that station wagon in sixty-three. Like O'Hare in '89. And like any other time any other parent has done any other stupid thing all in the name of either educating a kid on what he possibly can do, or what he probably shouldn't do. Just like you do if you are a parent.

Could someone have pulled in front of my dad in '63? Yes.

Would it have been unsafe? No.

Would there have been a collision? No.

Was the JFK controller foolish to put his child on the frequency? Probably.

Was it unsafe? No.

In fact, in the immortal words of the FAA, "Safety was never compromised."

How can you say that, you ask? It's simple, really. Like O'Hare and my dad and your dad, that controller in New York would have dropped his kid like Enron stock at the first inkling of a hint of a notion of an anomaly. And if he got in the way the others in the room would have escorted the kid out, no gentler with him than we were with Slew or my dad was with me or your dad was with you when your feet didn't move fast enough.

Gever Tulley and Julie Spiegler have written a book entitled, "Fifty Dangerous Things You Should Let Your Child Do." Thumbing through this book is like taking a trip through the early years of practically all of us. Superglue your fingers together. Get a penny and put it on the railroad tracks. Light something with a magnifying glass. Blow something up in the microwave.

In my case (and these are not made up) there was also BB gun fights with my brothers, blowing up GI Joe with Dad's lighter fluid, building and then burning down each other's tree houses, making a wooden car with roller skates and driving it down the hill and into traffic, throwing pocket knives at each others feet to see who would flinch, shooting each other with bottle rockets on the 4th and launching tennis balls at each other by putting a small hole in the bottom of the can and filling it with the remaining Zippo lighter fluid. One match and FOOM. The ball comes out on fire sometimes and you can light your siblings t-shirt on fire if you hit it just right.

Sure, people relied on the JFK dad and he let them down. But if you listen to the pilots involved in the incident---the people who literally put their lives in this JFK controllers hands---there is no indignity. There is no, "Hey, are we safe here?" There is no challenge or question or uncertainty.

The pilots. The ones who are always the first people at the scene of an airplane crash (think about that one for a minute Eww). The pilots thought it was funny. And at no time did the pilots think they, or anyone else was in danger. And do you know why? Because at one time or another each and every one of those pilots has opened his arms to his kid, sat him on his lap, and let him fly the rented plane. And the kid flew. Horrors. He could have fallen on somebody or flown into something. Riiiiiiiight.

In the big scheme of things the firestorm that has greeted the JFK incident rivals Sarah Palin pick-pocketing swag at the Oscars, which I guess brings me to my final point.

People, people, people. The great American sport has grown weary. When are you going to stop building up idols and icons so that you can knock them down? No, the Gosslins aren't "Plus Eight." He is an ugly-ass unemployed cheater and she is a mean bitch and a basket case and together they are ruining their kid's lives. No, Tiger Woods isn't Husband of the Year. Was he as bad as Clinton? Close, but no cigar. (Think about that one for a minute, too. Eww)

We Americans have made it our blood sport to build pyramids of worship to our Gods (or maybe just big football stadiums and HDTVs) and then gather by hundreds of thousands to worship them (OK, cheer them on). And when they blink the wrong way or get a traffic ticket or get caught with a live boy or a dead girl, well, then it's off to the woodshed we go for a good old fashioned American ass whipping. You would think we would have learned by now.

Yes, the JFK controller messed up. We all know that. And let anyone who has never messed up at work cast the first letter of reprimand.

Yes, the JFK controller showed a lapse in judgment. And let anyone who has never showed bad judgment at work cast the first suspension.

Yes, the JFK controller let down his company, his family and his friends. Let anyone who has raised above the humanity of our own shortcomings fire the poor bastard.

Otherwise, let's give it a rest, will ya? The Oscars are Sunday night and somebody is sure to do something stupid or rat on Brad and Angelina or linger too long hugging Jennifer and that boat-rocker will sweep this controller and his little buddy off the news wires like they were OJ Simpson. Haven't heard much from "The Juice" lately, have we? OJ's doing his time and all is right with the world.

So give the JFK controller the benefit of the doubt to go along with the discipline he has earned, but don't swipe a lifetime of service to the American people and his family's future from the poor guy because it turned out he was human.

There, but for the grace of God, go you.

John Carr

[Frixxxx]

Nothing new there- they've been doing that at JFK Airport for over 40 years....

James,

Agreed and nice article. I listened to the tapes and read some of the transcripts and it was actually kinda "cool" that a kid could participate in an important part of their father's life. Like it was said....the pilots never stopped to say anything about talking to a kid, in fact they were told in advance about what was going to happen.

The procedure the kid participated in, turning planes over to departure, is a boring and mundane one, but necessary part of the job.

It is not like the kid was handed a firehose and told to point it at the fire while daddy got a few drinks....this story did a disservice to the ATC community.:suspicious:

And they don't need this!

A non-ATC employee - Frixxxx:cool:

[clester]

Its unfortunate that we have to play the blame game in our country. The FAA should have stood up for this guy. I am ATC and I really don't see the issue. If you trust your employees to make decisions, then you understand that this guy would never have let anything bad happen and was ready to override any bad transmissions. We do this all the time with trainees! The manager as well as the FAA higher ups should be the ones reprimanded. Gimme a break!!!!

[Elgallo]

I'm a military "BRAT", and I am sure there are others here on the MB as well that can relate.

My old man, may he rest in peace, would be put in jail today if he did now what he was doing with me when I was 8-10 years old.

By the time I started school I could break down an M1 Garrand blindfolded. Every weekend he would bring one of the Army standard arms home and I would be instructed in how to break it down and reassemble it. I remember .30 and .50 cal machineguns, recoiless rifles, bazookas, .45 cal pistols etc. No tellin waht mom would come home to! But thats not all the story.

My dad was a tank commander, and yes, I was ridin around and drivin them. The best part of his tanker gig was, I was allowed to aim and fire the big gun. Quite a rush for a young one I would say.

[Viva_La_Migra]

I'm a military "BRAT", and I am sure there are others here on the MB as well that can relate.

My old man, may he rest in peace, would be put in jail today if he did now what he was doing with me when I was 8-10 years old.

By the time I started school I could break down an M1 Garrand blindfolded. Every weekend he would bring one of the Army standard arms home and I would be instructed in how to break it down and reassemble it. I remember .30 and .50 cal machineguns, recoiless rifles, bazookas, .45 cal pistols etc. No tellin waht mom would come home to! But thats not all the story.

My dad was a tank commander, and yes, I was ridin around and drivin them. The best part of his tanker gig was, I was allowed to aim and fire the big gun. Quite a rush for a young one I would say.
So...if I told you to check your head space and timing, you'd know what I was telling you to do?:D

[Buster]

Great replies..I hope I didn't give the impression I disapproved..just that I was thinking that in this day and age, people are out for blood...I agree this thing with the ATCjr. was blown out of proportion..I hope the guy and his Sup aren't made an example of in a bad way..

[Frixxxx]

Great replies..I hope I didn't give the impression I disapproved..just that I was thinking that in this day and age, people are out for blood...I agree this thing with the ATCjr. was blown out of proportion..I hope the guy and his Sup aren't made an example of in a bad way..
Two way street brother!

One way says - Don't break the rules EVER!

Other says - Bend the rules for special occassions!

This wil blow over....:cool:

P.S. I didn't think you took a side really, just voiced concerned!

[James48843]

So...if I told you to check your head space and timing, you'd know what I was telling you to do?:D

head space?? Better check !

http://www.pica.army.mil/picatinnypublic/m2_headspacetimin/m2-poster.pdf


4FC7m0pBdMk

[WorkFE]

Elgallo,
As a DAT I can appreciate your story. My son also enjoyed many days on the range and in the Motor Pool with me. These are different times for better or worse.

[Elgallo]

"Growing up Inside the Fortress" definitly let me have certain expereiences that for the most part are not avaiable to those outside of it. I'm certain I became a better person because of these unique opportunities. I just wish now I had thanked my dad more than I did at the time for allowing me into his world.

BTW There is a book "Growing Up Inside the Fortress" which as I understand gives many insights into the world I and other "brats" grew up in. I do not recall the authors name however.


PS You bet I know what headspacing is! Semi's and F/autos do not cycle well if it's improperly set. That section from the manual brought back some lost info I have long ago forgotten.

Lock and Load Amigos!

[weatherweenie]

What I don't get is how a person can say, he was wrong to do it, and in the same breath say, safety wasn't jeopardized. If safety wasn't jeopardized, was he wrong to do it?

Also, working in an ARTCC I continually hear controllers talk about how safety is job one, that's why they pull down the salaries they do. Then, when a potential safety issue like this comes up, they downplay the safety concerns.

I heard a controller say, this is no different than a secretary telling their kid to turn the coffee maker on. REALLY?! If that's true, the controller just insulted their profession.

I think this is more like a surgeon telling their kid how, and where to make an incision. Or a lawyer giving their kid a written arguement to parrot in front of a jury.

If I was the patient, or the defendant in either instance, I wouldn't have as much faith in my outcome.

[Viva_La_Migra]

head space?? Better check !

http://www.pica.army.mil/picatinnypublic/m2_headspacetimin/m2-poster.pdf



4FC7m0pBdMk

Thanks for the spelling lesson.

[Viva_La_Migra]

What I don't get is how a person can say, he was wrong to do it, and in the same breath say, safety wasn't jeopardized. If safety wasn't jeopardized, was he wrong to do it?


Possibly, if it violated policy. I don't think safety was jeopardized, but it was probably a violation of policy.