For feds, more get 6-figure salaries

[tsptalk]

For feds, more get 6-figure salaries
Average pay $30,000 over private sector

"The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.

"Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted."

For feds, more get 6-figure salaries (http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20091211/1afedpay11_st.art.htm?loc=interstitialskip)

[peterson82]

Interesting, but I know that in the Coast Guard the average age of a civilian employee is close to 49. Since 45-55 is when people generally earn the most in their careers, I would not be surprised or alarmed by an average of 71k.

[nnuut]

NSPS!!!:blink:?

[fabijo]

Interesting, but I know that in the Coast Guard the average age of a civilian employee is close to 49. Since 45-55 is when people generally earn the most in their careers, I would not be surprised or alarmed by an average of 71k.

That's an interesting point I never considered. I wonder what the statistics are on the average age-group represented by the federal work force.

[Bullitt]

This is the world we created. I hear how PO'd people on this MB and at my workplace are about a "mere 2% raise" and it's no wonder there's political pressure to raise wages. Watch out for the thundering herd- Lots of PhD's and MBA's are out there looking for jobs.


When the Federal Aviation Administration chief's salary rose, nearly 1,700 employees' had their salaries lifted above $170,000, too. I feel for you FAA guys. I can only imagine how many SOP's and terrible policies were created by those 1700 employees in an attempt to quantify their wages.

[clester]

That's an interesting point I never considered. I wonder what the statistics are on the average age-group represented by the federal work force.

there is a large group at my workplace born about 1960. Me too :)

[clester]

This is the world we created. I hear how PO'd people on this MB and at my workplace are about a "mere 2% raise" and it's no wonder there's political pressure to raise wages. Watch out for the thundering herd- Lots of PhD's and MBA's are out there looking for jobs.

I feel for you FAA guys. I can only imagine how many SOP's and terrible policies were created by those 1700 employees in an attempt to quantify their wages.

We controllers got screwed the last 3 years! :(

but thing are lookin' up

[nnuut]

Guarantee you if they looked at the BOP or DOD that the numbers would be way down from an average of $71,000, Politicians and bureaucrats in DC are running up the numbers!! Numbers don't tell the whole story, and they use it to generally say that Federal Workers are making WAY too much money!!!!!!! Sure glad I'm retiring this month!! We need to write Glenn Beck and straighten him out!!:nuts:

[James48843]

This is the world we created. I hear how PO'd people on this MB and at my workplace are about a "mere 2% raise" and it's no wonder there's political pressure to raise wages. Watch out for the thundering herd- Lots of PhD's and MBA's are out there looking for jobs.

I feel for you FAA guys. I can only imagine how many SOP's and terrible policies were created by those 1700 employees in an attempt to quantify their wages.

I wanted to check the stats on this- so here they are. You mention FAA people. FAA's biggest single location of employees is WASHINGTON D.C. And while those FAA people in the field make far, far less, the ones in the glass house in the FAA's D.C. headquarters building pull down huge salaries, much higher even that others in D.C.

There are a LOT of FAA employees in the DC headquarters building who make six figures or more:

According to data on the http://php.app.com/fed_employees/search.php website, in 2008, the FAA within Washington D.C. boundaries had the greatest concentration of highly paid federal employees in the government.



This is 2008 data for base pay:

98 FAA employees in Washington DC earned the maximum $172,200. That includes some familiar names. Gerald Lavey, Ventris Gibson, Mel Harris are all on the 172,200 list.

110 earned above $170,000

401 earned above $150,000 a year.

623 earned $140,000 a year or more.

970 earned $130,000 a year or more.

1,476 earned $120,000 a year or more.

1,953 earned $110,000 a year or more.

And 2,361, or 69% of FAA Washington D.C. employees earned $100,000 a year or more.

There are 3,379 total employees work for the FAA in Washington DC.

[nnuut]

Guarantee you if they looked at the BOP or DOD that the numbers would be way down from an average of $71,000, Politicians and bureaucrats in DC are running up the numbers!! Numbers don't tell the whole story, and they use it to generally say that Federal Workers are making WAY too much money!!!!!!! Sure glad I'm retiring this month!! We need to write Glenn Beck and straighten him out!!:nuts:
I did just that, sent an email and got a machine answer, saying he tries to read them all but he gets 4,000 a week, ??? or was that a day?:suspicious:

[CountryBoy]

NSPS!!!:blink:?

At least in our office NSPS it had a big impact. About 25% of the office had stepped out, so NSPS really bumped us up by a big amount. but going back to the GS grade scale, our raises are suppose to be smaller until the GS rates catches up. So it'll all come out in the wash and NSPS is a real hassle and even more open to playing favs.

Also someone mentioned age, I can't speak for anyone else, but our district is pretty top heavy in the 50+ age group. That's getting up there in earning ability, plus most of the folks have a college degree, either a 2 or 4 year.

I would like to see what the educational level is amongst Feds as compared to the rest of the country. I would bet the Feds are better educated.

Move the jobs outta DC and put them out in the flyover states, that would eventually lower costs. The cost of living in the DC Area is way to high, which is a big driver in salaries.

When I came from private industry to the Fed's, it took over 4 years for my salary to catch, but bennies and standard of living were better. It's a trade-off we all make.

[Bullitt]

Move the jobs outta DC and put them...

...out in the trenches delivering those ridiculous piles of coupons and Walmart fliers that go right into my recycling bin.

Re: Cost of living. Another political decision intended to make Americans feel richer. The chart on Real Wages says it all.

Wage growth, currently running at about 3% YoY and declining quickly, stinks. In fact, only twice in the last 45 years has there been real wage growth (i.e., in excess of the inflation rate)for more than a year or so: once, in the post-war economic golden era of the 1960s and early 1970s; and again during the tech boom of the 1990s. Here is a graph showing that entire 45 years history (as long as the series exists), comparing wages (in orange) with CPI inflation (in blue):

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff90/AvaBrendan/cpivswages.png
As you can easily see, real wage growth essentially stagnated in 1974, and ever since the Reagan revolution, almost all growth from productivity has been vacuumed up by the very top of the income scale.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/21/733001/-No-Sustained-Economic-Growth-without-Real-Wage-Growth

[tsptalk]

Average pay $30,000 over private sector

It makes sense that the average pay would be much higher than the private sector. It is because there are no burger flippers, waitresses, or fruit pickers, etc., in gov't positions There are a lot of high tech positions, and specialized kowledge positions. Maybe a better comparison would be gov't salaries vs. an insurance company or other companies doing business like banks, IBM, etc.

[fedgolfer]

One of the largest drivers in recent avg fed salaries is due to most secretarial/admin assistants getting outsourced/contracted... they are no longer GS'ers even though several clerical types remain. In my Department & agency, the entry level clerical GS jobs are all but eliminated. There are very few GS6's and lower versus just a few years ago. In our latest Congressional Justification, I think the average grade was a GS13.

[nnuut]

The numbers really shouldn't be that high, but they can make the numbers look anyway they want.:suspicious: Next OBAMA will call for a reduction in Federal Worker's salary!!:nuts: 7627

[JOVARN]

Look at the DVA, there you will find thousands making 100K and much more. When you look at the Average age of the VA nursing staff the longevity pay based on the GS yearly increase alone easily places many over the 100K mark. In the late 90s the VA Nurse leadership convinced the Undersecretary that nurses should have a BS degree even though 80% of all nurses practicing nation wide only had a 2 year degree. That measure alone over the next few years will ensure that hundreds if not thousands more will make over 100K and the sad fact is many of them will never place a hand on a Patient they are administrative “clip board” nurses. If you stay at the bedside and serve the hospitalized patient your salary will be caped at much less then 100K.
JOVARN, Bedside Nurse.
All in cash waiting for the next shoe to drop

[fabijo]

In the late 90s the VA Nurse leadership convinced the Undersecretary that nurses should have a BS degree even though 80% of all nurses practicing nation wide only had a 2 year degree. That measure alone over the next few years will ensure that hundreds if not thousands more will make over 100K

So, getting a BS gives someone 100k? Is that true?

[burrocrat]

So, getting a BS gives someone 100k? Is that true?

Not true at my department and agency, i am well educated with applicable life/previous career experience and it got me nothing. I started with the feds in 2002 doing technical work as a full-time temporary employee and did that for 3 years, no insurance, benefits or perks.

Moved to another state due to work availability and family reasons, had to start over, temp employee again.

Finally moved into a permanent position 3 years ago, the health insurance and retirement benefits made it a no-brainer, best option at the time. Unfortunately, superiors determined my previous education and experience did not apply to my new postition, although i beg to differ and have recieved several awards acknowledging my contributions to the team for the very same skills and efforts.

I'm currently a GS7 mid-step and can only imagine a six figure salary. But i have managed to purchase and own my home free and clear no mortgage, no car payment, eliminated all credit card debt, i don't buy nothing on borrow. Nothing fancy but quite peaceful, raise much of our own food, kid can walk down to the creek and go fishing after school, all of it only a few blocks from work, school, home. No 7-11 to hang out back with the gangsters, besides the neighbors would tell me as soon as it happened.

Opportunities for advancement are there, but mostly require relocation, a huge increase in cost of living, and a serious decrease in quality of life.

I've come to the realization that low stress and happiness are correlated to your distance from a walmart and to your proximity to dirt roads. I pull out of my driveway onto a gravel road and the nearest mega-marts are 60 miles one way, 100 miles the other.

Not many places left like that. I would like a bigger income, but I count my blessings every day.

[CountryBoy]

Not true at my department and agency, i am well educated with applicable life/previous career experience and it got me nothing. I started with the feds in 2002 doing technical work as a full-time temporary employee and did that for 3 years, no insurance, benefits or perks.

Moved to another state due to work availability and family reasons, had to start over, temp employee again.

Finally moved into a permanent position 3 years ago, the health insurance and retirement benefits made it a no-brainer, best option at the time. Unfortunately, superiors determined my previous education and experience did not apply to my new postition, although i beg to differ and have recieved several awards acknowledging my contributions to the team for the very same skills and efforts.

I'm currently a GS7 mid-step and can only imagine a six figure salary. But i have managed to purchase and own my home free and clear no mortgage, no car payment, eliminated all credit card debt, i don't buy nothing on borrow. Nothing fancy but quite peaceful, raise much of our own food, kid can walk down to the creek and go fishing after school, all of it only a few blocks from work, school, home. No 7-11 to hang out back with the gangsters, besides the neighbors would tell me as soon as it happened.

Opportunities for advancement are there, but mostly require relocation, a huge increase in cost of living, and a serious decrease in quality of life.

I've come to the realization that low stress and happiness are correlated to your distance from a walmart and to your proximity to dirt roads. I pull out of my driveway onto a gravel road and the nearest mega-marts are 60 miles one way, 100 miles the other.

Not many places left like that. I would like a bigger income, but I count my blessings every day.

Burrocrat,

What you have is worth more in happiness, peace of mind and quality of life, that no amt. of money could bring. Way to go. :D

CB

[alevin]

Burro, well done! B.S. only got my foot in the door at 5-level. Even with an M.S., 20 years later, I'm not at the $100K, well below that mark. Part of it was life choices. I have a paid-off home and vehicle here, am finally able to get down with the serious retirement savings and choose not to move into a significantly higher housing/cost-of-living area just to get the next grade-and end up with a huge new mortgage and a real commute. what benefit would that be? Seriously. Unless I see the financial benefit with no real downgrade in preferred low-key lifestyle, why go for a new job? Only reason to relocate otherwise would be for location or family, wouldn't need the pay raise if cost-of-living/housing/lifestyle possibilities were comparable.

[FAB1]

I pull out of my driveway onto a gravel road and the nearest mega-marts are 60 miles one way, 100 miles the other.

:confused: - Approx. just where you? North Dakota...Montana? What agency / position (im a bit jealous, want a new neighbor?)
:cool:

[burrocrat]

Approx. just where you? North Dakota...Montana? What agency / position (im a bit jealous, want a new neighbor?)

when you see any news report with a map that shows just how bad unemployment, housing foreclosures, state budgets, crime, etc. are, look for the lighter shaded areas, that's the spot. "put the debt down and step away from the coast".

just bring your own culture and relationship, it's pretty slim pickins out here, but that's what trips to the city are for right? actually just the opposite on the relationship end, lots of hearty choices, pack it on like expecting a long, cold winter or something (and not often wrong about that), it's all good.

most folks wear more than one hat and plenty of work to be found, especially if you count farming/ranching on the side, fills the freezer nicely too. just keep your head down and your mouth shut at first, it can take a while to assimilate, and don't ever mis-deal or mis-lead. bonus is you just don't hear much complaining, that doesn't get the job done, and those type that don't really want to be here don't stick around long anyway.

If you don't know much about agriculture but don't mind pitching in, you'll learn real fast. try USDA - NRCS, FSA, or ARS, jobs in nearly every county in the U.S.

come on in the prairie's fine.

[fabijo]

Sounds like good ol' living. I want it. I'll tell my kids they are Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn.

[Silverbird]

The workforce is getting older, at least where I work. Very few people under the age of 50. Many have reached their terminus pay. Very few people in their forties, and almost no one younger than that.

In addition, there's no such thing as an office secretary anymore - the pay is below the poverty line so good luck getting someone. They usually last about a month then are out to the private sector. When we had our last "early retirement" offer about 5 years ago, almost all of the experienced secretaries left, which was rather hard on people who couldn't type. :toung: What is left of the secretarial pool now does budgeting and adminitrative/editting work, which pays much better - and they are mostly as old as the general workforce so they are also close to their terminus pay, if not already there.

Mail delivery, cleaning, computer tech, and other lower wage jobs are all contracted out.

[ChemEng]

Hitting $100k is pretty common in the area of DoD where I work. (I'm still not there, but very close!). I'm guessing 2-3 more years until I cross that threshold.

As a point of comparison, I am 30 year old with these credentials (and associated relevant progressive work experience):
BS Chemical Engineering
MBA
Registered Professional Engineer
Lean Six Sigma Black Belt
Working on PhD in Applied Math

[burrocrat]

... choose not to move into a significantly higher housing/cost-of-living area just to get the next grade ... what benefit ... downgrade in preferred low-key lifestyle ...

well it's a lifestyle and financial trade off, but i've seen some do it temporarily after kids are stable on their own before retirement to pump up the high-three. probably a net-zero financially with additional rent/lease and expenses in the short-term, but then retire back to home turf with a bigger retirement benefit, might pay off over the long term. i'm a long way from those type of considerations.

[burrocrat]

Hitting $100k is pretty common in the area of DoD where I work. (I'm still not there, but very close!). I'm guessing 2-3 more years until I cross that threshold.

As a point of comparison, I am 30 year old with these credentials (and associated relevant progressive work experience):
BS Chemical Engineering
MBA
Registered Professional Engineer
Lean Six Sigma Black Belt
Working on PhD in Applied Math

Wow, sounds like you're off to a great start, and have earned it, hang in there and you're in great shape. I sometimes wonder if i wasted, oh twenty years, in other pursuits, but's it's who i am and i wouldn't change the past, still working on improving the future though.

More than one way to skin a cat, just don't try herding them, learned that the hard way, a few times.

[ChemEng]

More than one way to skin a cat, just don't try herding them, learned that the hard way, a few times.
I just bought a motorcycle (Honda VTX 1300R for those interested). I intend to invest a growing amount of time in its saddle in the near and far future. The cost of future credentials is too high relative to their potential gains compared to feeling of a good ride on a warm day through country roads...

[alevin]

I just bought a motorcycle (Honda VTX 1300R for those interested). I intend to invest a growing amount of time in its saddle in the near and far future. The cost of future credentials is too high relative to their potential gains compared to feeling of a good ride on a warm day through country roads...

Ah, you're young yet. Plenty of time still to get your priorities all messed up. :toung: Very pretty bike, I was thinking about buying an electric bicycle for commuting for awhile when gas prices went so high last year. They're expensive tho! ;)

[CountryBoy]

Groups claim data on federal employees' salaries is misleading

According to federal workforce advocates, the numbers are misleading. "The data presented by USA Today is incomplete in many ways," Jessica Klement, legislative director for the Federal Managers Association, wrote in an e-mail. She said the data did not indicate how or why federal employees earned those salaries, and taken in context, the figures aren't as alarming as they seem at first glance.

"The USA Today article also disappoints by failing to recognize the growth in the number of highly paid political appointees and senior managers at the federal level and the far greater degree of professional jobs performed by the men and women of the federal workforce when contrasted with the private sector," Kelley said in a statement.


http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=44246&printerfriendlyvers=1

[alevin]

too bad they don't rebut by way of USA News editorial, so that the same readership has opportunity to get the "rest of the story". Who reads govexec except feds? Not John Q. public.