What Happened To Global Warming, it's NOT!!

[nnuut]

What happened to global warming?
"One thing is for sure. It seems the debate about what is causing global warming is far from over. Indeed some would say it is hotting up."

By Paul Hudson
Climate correspondent, BBC News
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46521000/jpg/_46521996_000150583-1.jpg Average temperatures have not increased for over a decade

This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.
And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.
So what on Earth is going on?
Climate change sceptics, who passionately and consistently argue that man's influence on our climate is overstated, say they saw it coming.
They argue that there are natural cycles, over which we have no control, that dictate how warm the planet is. But what is the evidence for this?
During the last few decades of the 20th Century, our planet did warm quickly.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46522000/jpg/_46522743_007440016-1.jpg Recent research has ruled out solar influences on temperature increases

Sceptics argue that the warming we observed was down to the energy from the Sun increasing. After all 98% of the Earth's warmth comes from the Sun.
But research conducted two years ago, and published by the Royal Society, seemed to rule out solar influences.
The scientists' main approach was simple: to look at solar output and cosmic ray intensity over the last 30-40 years, and compare those trends with the graph for global average surface temperature.
And the results were clear. "Warming in the last 20 to 40 years can't have been caused by solar activity," said Dr Piers Forster from Leeds University, a leading contributor to this year's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).
But one solar scientist Piers Corbyn from Weatheraction, a company specialising in long range weather forecasting, disagrees.
He claims that solar charged particles impact us far more than is currently accepted, so much so he says that they are almost entirely responsible for what happens to global temperatures.
He is so excited by what he has discovered that he plans to tell the international scientific community at a conference in London at the end of the month.
If proved correct, this could revolutionise the whole subject.
Ocean cycles
What is really interesting at the moment is what is happening to our oceans. They are the Earth's great heat stores. [MORE] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm

[CapeChem]

It is in Florida...brutal hot for October

[Frixxxx]

Tue
http://img0.gmodules.com/ig/images/weather/rain.png
71° | 52°
Wed
http://img0.gmodules.com/ig/images/weather/rain.png
74° | 51°
Thu
http://img0.gmodules.com/ig/images/weather/partly_cloudy.png
85° | 52°
Fri
http://img0.gmodules.com/ig/images/weather/sunny.png
91° | 53°

Lucy, you got some splaining to do!!!!!!!!!

[nnuut]

Desi, I don't write them, I just quote them!! 6965

[Buster]

It is in Florida...brutal hot for October
Yeah but, all the Northern States got blanketed in snow this past week too...go figure:suspicious:


Light snow fell Monday afternoon in downtown Green Bay.
The earliest date for measurable snow, 0.1 inch, was Oct. 9, 1925.
The record for Oct. 12 is 2.3 inches, when that amount fell on Green Bay in 1909, said Scott Berschback, meteorologisthttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091013/GPG0101/910130571/1207/GPG01/It-s-never-too-early-for-snow-in-Wisconsin#) intern.
"It's not unprecedented," he said. On Oct. 12, 1909, several other cities had record snow.
Green Bay saw 0.1 inch of precipitation Monday.
Any snow that fell melted on contact, said Teri Egger, a meteorologist with the National Weather Servicehttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091013/GPG0101/910130571/1207/GPG01/It-s-never-too-early-for-snow-in-Wisconsin#) office in Ashwaubenon.
Some snow accumulated north of a line from Wausau to Marinette, but most of the snow was stuck to grass and did not accumulate on roads, Egger said.
The average dates for measurable snowfall for Green Bay are 0.1 inch by Nov. 11, 1 inch by Nov. 22, 3 inches by Dec. 11 and 5 inches by Jan. 5, according to the weather service.
The chance of snow is expected to last throughout much of the week.

[Buster]

And this was captured on a cell phone Yesterday over Moscow......They're coming......oooooooooweeeeeeeeeeooooooo:blink:

sHOPxVM6oIw&feature=player_embedded

[Show-me]

Unseasonably cold here in NE MO.

[nnuut]

Who said that unseasonable cold temperatures are all part of Global Warming? :confused:
Was it Big AL, probably?:cheesy:

[nnuut]

A friend and his Brother-In-Law went fly fishing to Ennis Montana, his wife said "they can't fish, it's too cold", their still there waiting!!
Something tells me that most of these guys don't know what the heck is really happening!!:nuts:

The World Meteorological Organization says cold weather does not mean that global warming has abated. WMO says people should not confuse weather with climate.

People in Europe are shivering, while people in North Asia and parts of Australia are sweltering. Scientists say these weather extremes are to be expected and neither phenomenon can be used as a case for or against global warming.

http://www.voanews.com/english/images/wmo_Michel_Jarraud_195_eng_14dec06_1.jpgMichel Jarraud Secretary-General of the World Meteorological Organization, Michel Jarraud, says people should not confuse local weather variability with climate change.

Just because people in Geneva and elsewhere in Europe are shivering does not mean global warming has stopped. He says the trend toward global warming is still there.
"I think we have to be careful not to interpret any single event as a proof of either warming or the fact that warming has stopped," he said. "When scientists look at the global warming, they take into account many, many old possible available evidence. So, we cannot explain any single phenomenon by one single cause."

Jarraud says last year was cooler than the year before, but 2008 still ranks as the 10th warmest year on record.

He says average global surface temperatures have climbed significantly since 1850, when historical weather statistics were first recorded.
"Global warming will mean that heat waves like the one we got in Western Europe in 2003 will become more frequent. But, it does not mean that the 2003 heat wave was produced by global warming ... Last year, we know that part of the relative cooling was due to the La Nina phenomena, which was moderate to strong in the first part of 2008. Then in the second part of 2008, it became closer to what we call neutral condition. Now, it is a little bit unclear what will happen this year," he said.

Jarraud says every year, somewhere in the world weather records will be broken. He says every year, exceptional weather events will take place somewhere in the world. He says people have to look at the global picture to assess whether climate change is taking place.

Scientists say human activity contributes to climate change, but they do not agree on the pace at which climate change may be unfolding.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2009-01/2009-01-14-voa5.cfm?CFID=314955919&CFTOKEN=95811378&jsessionid=66304d30f28100036fcd2a536112402d1015

[OBGibby]

"'What happened to global warming?' read the headline -- on BBC News on Oct. 9, no less. Consider it a cataclysmic event: Mainstream news organizations have begun reporting on scientific research that suggests that global warming may not be caused by man and may not be as dire and eminent as alarmists suggest. Indeed, as the BBC's climate correspondent Paul Hudson reported, the warmest year recorded globally 'was not in 2008 or 2007, but 1998.' It's true, he continued, 'For the last 11 years, we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.' ...

Western Washington University geologist Don J. Easterbrook presented research last year that suggests that the Pacific decadal oscillation (PDO) caused warmer temperatures in the 1980s and 1990s. With Pacific sea surface temperatures cooling, Easterbrook expects 30 years of global cooling. EPA analyst Alan Carlin -- an MIT-trained economist with a degree in physics -- referred to 'solar variability' and Easterbrook's work in a document that warned that politics had prompted the EPA and other countries to pay 'too little attention to the science of global warming' as partisans ignored the lack of global warming over the last 10 years. At first, the EPA buried the paper, then it permitted Carlin to post it on his personal Web site. ...

Over the years, global warming alarmists have sought to stifle debate by arguing that there was no debate. They bullied dissenters and ex-communicated non-believers from their panels. ...

For a long time, that approach worked. But after 11 years without record temperatures that had the seas spilling over the Statue of Liberty's toes, they are going to have to change tactics. They're going to have to rely on real data, not failed models, scare stories and the Big Lie that everyone who counts agrees with them." --columnist Debra Saunders (http://link.patriotpost.us/?136-1071-1071-42453-11146)

[Buster]

I'd like to someday enter into discussion the OZONE Hole debacle and the BS cause was CFC type refrigerants and underarm deodorant sprays that was/is depleting the OZONE layer, hence creating an entirely new industry to make alternative refrigerants and service procedures that ended up costing us the consumer millions more than usual in refrigeration maintenance and costs of repairs....Today, as I understand it, the SO-Called hole is smaller than it's ever been over the South pole.

Thank you Mr. Dupont...:suspicious:

http://nstarzone.com/OZONE.html

[nnuut]

Just like the 3 Word Thread, we can explain it with JUST 3!! 7003
GIVE ME MONEY!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_iQZiVD_zA

[malyla]

First, Global warming is still here. Global warming describes the effect that increasing greenhouse gases have on the atmosphere. Greenhouse gases include methane, carbon dioxide, water vapor, and nitrous oxide as the main players. The effects of these greenhouse gases can somewhat be offset by the cooling effects (from reflection of sunlight (short wave radiation) back into space) of aerosols such as sulfur emissions from coal burning power stations and volcanic emissions. Clouds can act as warming influences or cooling influences depending on the type of clouds and location of the clouds (high cirrus clouds actually act in warming the atmosphere, while cumulous clouds reflect sunlight back out of the atmosphere on a radiative balance basis). All these factors and more (albeto of land surfaces) contribute to the radiative forcing of the atmosphere. Radiative forcing measurements are a quantitative measure of global warming and describe the balance in the atmosphere between short wave sunlight penetration into the atmosphere and incident onto the surface and the long wave (heat) emission from the surface into the atmosphere.

An analogy is that the atmosphere is a transparent breathable electric blanket. As the thermostat is increased (increased greenhouse gases) the atmosphere heats up. The thermostat can be decreased by aerosols, clouds (cumulous), and high albeto reflection of sunlight back into space (acts like a mirror). Now, it’s important to point out here that this planet would not be habitable without this greenhouse effect in the atmosphere. Earth is just outside the habitable temperature orbit of the sun. Earth without a greenhouse effect in the atmosphere would be a frozen snowball in the simplest terms. Venus is in that orbit of habitability but it’s carbon dioxide atmosphere is the ultimate of a greenhouse atmosphere trapping in the long wave heat from the sun making the surface temperatures in excess of 400F (several electric blankets on high). It is this greenhouse blanket of small amounts of greenhouse gases that makes Earth comfortable for us humans.

So, is global warming real? From a quantitative measure of radiative forcing, yes it’s real. Since carbon dioxide measurements have been taken, the atmospheric concentrations have increased by ~100 ppmv which has an increased radiative forcing on the atmosphere. Other greenhouse gases have also increased while aerosols have decreased. In 1985 and 1992, two volcanic eruptions put a great deal of aerosols into the upper atmosphere which provided a cooling effect which is well documented in the science literature. To save time, I will point you to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change http://www.ipcc.ch/index.htm (http://www.ipcc.ch/index.htm) (the fifth assessment in currently inwork, so look at the AR4 Synthesis report and the working group reports if you want to get very knowledgeable to what top scientist have found) and Alan Robock’s publications and books (he wrote a book about Volcanism and the Earth’s Atmosphere) [http://envsci.rutgers.edu/~robock/] (some of you will have fun with his current research subject).

When those volcanic aerosols fell out of the atmosphere through the effects of atmospheric circulations and rain, that cooling effect was eliminated and the atmosphere heated up again (it takes 2-4 years for this to occur). So, is increasing greenhouse gases in times of low aerosol amounts in the atmosphere bad? Yes and No. The atmosphere is heating up (there is too much evidence to deny this), but this is not necessarily a bad thing depending on where you live, so what is the real issue?

The real issues are two fold: Is global warming influence by human activity? And, Who cares (why is it important)?
First, there is a great deal of peer-reviewed evidence that humans are causing the increase in greenhouse gases beyond what natural forcings will cause. All this evidence and the uncertainty definitions of ‘very likely’ can be found in the peer-reviewed and scientific community vetted documents on the IPCC website (Synthesis report is the place to start). If you want more, look at the papers referenced in the back of those documents. It’s important to read peer-reviewed papers and not popular book writers (Michael Crichton) and reporters (Roback) to learn what is real science inquiry and not popular fiction designed to sell books or influence policy through obscuration of facts.

So, who cares? The Earth has paleoclimate evidence that greenhouse gases were higher than they are now and evidence that they were must lower as well. However, when you look at life at those times you get an understanding of how much different climate was under those situations. So, global warming is important because it causes Climate Change (through warming and changes in atmospheric circulation).

Climate change is a broad term and is good or bad depending of where you live and how quickly it occurs. Gradual climate change allows time for humans and other species to adjust to the change. The Sahara desert was once wet and green about 8000 years ago, but as it gradual dried up, humans and animals moved to other areas (the fertile crescent, etc…). The Great Lakes were much smaller than they are now, but gradual climate change at the same time (8000 years ago) allowed for species to adapt. The problem with climate change is when it occurs rapidly. This disrupts societies and environments that effect life for decades or centuries. Humans have been lucky in this interglacial period since the last ice age (10-20 thousand years ago), the climate has been relatively stable (and warm), however, there have been rapid climate change events in recorded human history (the Little Ice-Age is just one event that led to the Black Death phases in Europe and the Mediterranean region and to other consequences possibly all over the world as well). When paleoclimate scientist look at past rapid climate change events and compare that to the record of extinction events, they find a correlation that is very convincing.

to be continued-

[malyla]

cont -

So, it’s rapid climate change that is the human societies concern. To avoid disruption of societies, we need to understand the processes that lead to rapid climate change so the consequences can be anticipated and managed.
Note: The Irish potato famine was credited as a result of a fungus, however, this may have been influence by a change in climate as well. However this occurred, it is a great study as to what happens when society is disrupted through some large event, i.e., human migration causes disruptions in other societies as they receive these refugees.

So, the current state of climate change science is the study of the Atmosphere and the Earth to understand where or when we may see this rapid climate change event that would cause a massive disruption of human civilizations either through drought, floods (rising sea levels), human migrations from other regions, disease, or increased hurricane activities or winter storms, to name a few. This rapid climate change (over the last 10-20 years) can already be seen in the Artic with the loss of year round sea-ice and the melting of the permafrost, plus other disruptive changes that only affect a few people and the polar bears (it’s bigger than that, just read the IPCC reports). Climate change is not a warming of the world, but a change from a decade or more mean in the record of a regions climate. Climate change allows for extremes in cold, heat, rain, drought, etc..., on a short seasonal timescale, but decadal changes (~10-100years;a human lifetime) from the previous norm, defines climate change.

A scientists has written about the concept of a ‘tipping point’ where the greenhouse gases continue to increase causing the climate system to rapidly adjust to this warming influence (see James Hansen). This is controversial as it is hard to quantify the ‘tipping point’, however, most peer-reviewed scientist agree that we can avoid some of the consequences seen in the paleoclimate record if we limit the carbon dioxide to a certain level. This requires we reduce or eliminate all CO2 emission now as it takes 50-100 years for the system to equalize. The analogy is that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is like a moving supertanker on the open ocean. If you turn off the engines (zero CO2 emissions), it will still take miles (decades in the atmosphere) for supertanker to stop (CO2 to level off). This is where policy comes into the equation.

If a government believes the science and the concept of a tipping point in climate change, then the world must stop or reduce CO2 emissions to avoid rapid climate change by leveling off the CO2 in the atmosphere decades from now. They will then implement polices to change CO2 emissions (the burning of fossil fuels) which could affect the profit margin of certain companies out there (which thinks no further than the next quarter). If a government is more concerned about the profit margins of certain companies, then they will deny the science or obscure the facts to buy time. They will not cut CO2 emissions. So, the debate is a policy debate and the interpretation of ‘what is too much’, i.e., is there a tipping point, when it comes to CO2 in the atmosphere. James Hansen's work on a tipping point uses models which allow for a lot of skepticism. It doesn't mean he's wrong, just that the debate against a tipping point has legs. More peer reviewed research is needed.

Many nations now accept that climate change is happening, but what do we do about it is open question as of yet. Many countries in Europe and the Mediterranean, as well as pacific islands have experienced the sea level rises over the last 50 years or so. The Netherlands, London, and Venice have put in place sea gates to protect the cities from high water events and it is predicted that in another 50 years, these cities will be at or below sea level. The insurance companies here in the US believe in climate change as it’s almost impossible to get housing insurance in low lying coastal regions. The risk is too great that the insurance company will have to pay out sometime in the next few decades. The only way to stop sea level rise is to stop the melting of Greenland ice and the western Antarctic land ice. Evidence is presented in the IPCC reports showing the rapid increase in the melting of these ice fields. It may be too late to stop this affect.

It’s hard for us humans to worry about 50-100 years from now, but most of us will see climate change events in our lifetime (decadal changes (think 8-12 year drought) from the climate norm). The USA with its resources and large land area will likely weather this better than many other nations. The problem comes when we have to protect ‘what is ours’ from others who have experienced loss through a rapid climate change event. This whole debate will be overrun by events if the Super-volcano erupts or a large asteroid strikes the Earth (supposedly this is what cause the extinction of the sabertooth tiger and possibly the Clovis people). There are more ways to rapid climate change events than runaway greenhouse gas emissions, but baring these rock based triggers, maybe we should look at controlling the thermostat on that transparent breathable electric blanket by decreasing our greenhouse gas emissions, if not for us, then for our children and nieces/nephews. Just a thought :)

[Buster]

THE GLOBAL WARMING HOAX



The official position of the World Natural Health Organization in regards to global warming is that there is NO GLOBAL WARMING! Global warming is nothing more than just another hoax, just like Y2K and the global freezing claims in the 1960's and 70's were. Global warming is being used to generate fear and panic. Those behind this movement are using it to control people's lives and for financial gain.
There are not a lot of individuals, groups, or organizations willing to stand up against this fraud that is being perpetuated for fear of being persecuted, harassed, and ostracized by those that support global warming the scientific and other communities. But fortunately, a few have decided to do the right this and take a stand against this evil, proving just how unscientifically sounded global warming is and exposing those who are behind it. Below, you will find links to information and articles showing the proof that global warming is nothing more than just a bunch of hot air (pun intended).
The dates that you see by each headline are the date when it was posted here. If you know if a news story, research, or information that should be posted here, please let us know what it is and please provide us with a link. The articles posted for previous years have been archived and links are provided to them, by year, at the bottom of this page.

http://www.wnho.net/global_warming.htm (http://www.wnho.net/global_warming_2007.htm)

"Virtually all of the research since 1999 has been refuting [the theory of human-caused global warming].

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3400

[malyla]

THE GLOBAL WARMING HOAX

http://www.wnho.net/global_warming.htm (http://www.wnho.net/global_warming_2007.htm)

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3400

You do know that this website is NOT associated with any United Nations or science organization. It is a website started by a bishop to promote a prolife agenda and his cures/news on health issues from a christian viewpoint. It's impossible to take this website as serious climate science research. It's just religious pundentry with an Obama hating slant. Read some good science for a change. www.ipcc.ch (http://www.ipcc.ch)

[Buster]

With all do respect and I won't even tell you what I think you SHOULD read...

So, I'm sorry for you that you are so brainwashed by the Liberal crisis mongers...Algore, et al.

I truly hope you will see the baloney of this Global Warming HOAX someday....So as to enjoy life and not feel guilty about farting once in a while..

[coolhand]

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-global-warming-activists-hate-the-idea-of-a-geo-engineering-solution-2009-10

[Valkyrie]

it is all about power, making billions for a few and world control. There are climate cycles, most of it caused by sun spots. Look at most of the record high temps that are broken today were high temps in the early 1900's sometimes late 1800's. Use your mind and see through the smoke. The Truth will set u free!

this was written in the early 1990's
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/greening.shtml

"In the process of this "greening of the world," incredible sums of money are going to be spent, whole new industries will emerge, and vast new fortunes will be made. In the last chapter of this report I will reveal the Number One Insider-favored investment in all of this, the investment that in the '90s will be what gold was in the '70s.
As I've written numerous times over the years, unless we are able to cut through illusions and false perceptions, thus grasping reality, we will fail to understand world events and the threats to our freedoms. A lessor, but applicable, consequence will be our failure as investors. "


"If the eco-movement were localized or small, we might dismiss out of hand its transformation into a religion. But itis growing rapidly worldwide, forcing itself into every political and economic discussion, with a zeal and fanaticism that can only be described as religious. Whatever your religion -- or lack of religion -- the metaphysical undertones to environmentalism, more than any other trend, should concern you. It threatens the very roots of Western civilization. The eco-cult has a theology of sin and salvation, apocalypse and millennium, god and man -- or perhaps more aptly, god(dess) and (wo)man -- some new, but most very ancient and very dark."

"Environmentalist Steven Schneider in an Australian TV interview asserted, "Right now the current price of coal, oil, and gas doesn't include the disruption it does to the environment...If we're going to ever have the right market incentives [sic] to solve the problem...we are going to have to have the right prices on energy. We've got to include environmental costs." (Quoted in Greenhouse Hokum, R.J. Long, Dominion Data, GPO Box 1467, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia 4001.) Let me assure you that when Mr. Schneider talks about "market incentives," he is not talking about privatization of the power industry or removal of subsidies and government-controlled energy prices.

What does all this mean to us? The international Herald Tribune article gives a clue. "Mr. Schultz [of the German Federal Environment office in West Berlin] noted that gasoline is available at roughly one Deutsche Mark (50 cents) per liter (0.26 gallon) in West Germany, but he said that some studies show it should be as much as 5 DM [Five times the present price! - LA] to pay for the effects of noise and air pollution, and the cost of accidents." The costs won't stop there. Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) not only power aerosol sprays, they are also the most effective refrigerant known. Chlorine produced from CFCs is the much-touted culprit behind the "ozone-hole" at the South Pole. Yet volcanoes emit 36 million tons of chlorine gas a year, while approximately only 750,000 tons per year are attributed to CFCs, or about 2 percent of the total. For their 2 percent, CFC producers are being forced to developalternatives. Du Pont, the largest producer, "estimates that retrofitting and shifting all the world's processes to alternative compounds will cost the world between $50 billion and $100 billion by the year 2000." Alternatives will cost three to five times CFCs presently used, according to Forbes magazine for October 30, 1989. "

[Buster]

What does all this mean to us? The international Herald Tribune article gives a clue. "Mr. Schultz [of the German Federal Environment office in West Berlin] noted that gasoline is available at roughly one Deutsche Mark (50 cents) per liter (0.26 gallon) in West Germany, but he said that some studies show it should be as much as 5 DM [Five times the present price! - LA] to pay for the effects of noise and air pollution, and the cost of accidents." The costs won't stop there. Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) not only power aerosol sprays, they are also the most effective refrigerant known. Chlorine produced from CFCs is the much-touted culprit behind the "ozone-hole" at the South Pole. Yet volcanoes emit 36 million tons of chlorine gas a year, while approximately only 750,000 tons per year are attributed to CFCs, or about 2 percent of the total. For their 2 percent, CFC producers are being forced to developalternatives. Du Pont, the largest producer, "estimates that retrofitting and shifting all the world's processes to alternative compounds will cost the world between $50 billion and $100 billion by the year 2000." Alternatives will cost three to five times CFCs presently used, according to Forbes magazine for October 30, 1989. "


Thank you!;)

[nnuut]

There's no cure for STUPID!! 7006

[grandma]

Dixie Lee Ray, one time Govenor of Washington State, was a marine biologist, well respected scientist, author. I found lots of her quotes on the search engines, but not the documentation where she said these. One thing she didn't believe was global warming. And if I knew where to look here at home for those saved hometown newspapers, I could give you the details. However, :notrust: to say that "all the top scientists of the nation believe in this" (global warming) is to imply a person is Not a True nor great scientist simply because he/she doesn't follow the trend - and that is outright, blatant, deception. Thank God for the guys of yore that bucked the heirochy.
http://www.argee.net/Thrawn%20Rickle/Thrawn%20Rickle%2050.htm

[malyla]

Never mind.

I do believe in questioning, but using the tools of pundentry in blogs to refute peer review scientific research is not the way to change the facts. I also know that groups will use these facts to spin their point of view whether that be going totally green or staying business as usual. Our policy makers will be the ones that have the final say on the direction we take. We could ignore the science and just continue business as usually and react to the climate changes as they happen or we can make small steps towards limiting CO2 emission which will lead to new technology, more energy independance from the middle east, and just a little more control over our enviroment. There are powerful forces for business as usual as oil is BIG business and is the worlds main energy source. Any thing that threatens that supremacy is in for a very hard fight and sometimes that fight leads to extreme behavior and comments on both sides of the issue. 'What to do' is the battleground. The science is not perfect, but it is overwelmingly showing that global warming and the climate change consequences are real. This other opinion about global warming being a hoax is just a smoke screen to cover up for no better argument about 'what do to'. I'm of two opinions on what to do: Nothing and react to the changes, however, this causes extreme reactions that I do not like or in most cases do not want to live through; or do something to limit the releasing of million year old solar energy locked up in the carbon of plants and liquidfied or compressed into oil,gas,coal for release today through the buring of this fossil fuel. We are changing the energy balance of the planet by releasing this previously trapped energy and we can continue to control this energy balance by controlling the thermostat to keep the climate comfortable for the majority of humans. It would be the first 'conscience' step in terraforming a planet for human habitation. I recommend baby steps but steps never-the-less.

[WorkFE]

Just told my boss I was shutting down the computer and turning out the light to save us money. He recommended getting rid of me would save more.:(

[OBGibby]

...enjoy life and not feel guilty about farting once in a while..

In case anyone was wondering, I have no guilt. None. I expend it every chance I get.

As far as the global warming scam goes: Man was still squatting in outhouses one hundred years ago, yet the global warming crowd wants me to believe that they know accurate temperature readings going back centuries. Think about that - we were freezing our collective asses off literally just a millisecond ago in the history of the earth, yet we have people who tells us (with a straight face, no less!) that they KNOW it was warmer now than some year "way back when."

[malyla]

In case anyone was wondering, I have no guilt. None. I expend it every chance I get.

As far as the global warming scam goes: Man was still squatting in outhouses one hundred years ago, yet the global warming crowd wants me to believe that they know accurate temperature readings going back centuries. Think about that - we were freezing our collective asses off literally just a millisecond ago in the history of the earth, yet we have people who tells us (with a straight face, no less!) that they KNOW it was warmer now than some year "way back when."


Here is a great source on the hockey-stick controversy about temperatures and the proxies for temperatures. It is also a good example of how peer review processes work in the scientific community. This process can take decades but usually is shorter (years) with modern scientific data sets and techniques.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy

At the request of the U.S. Congress, a special "Committee on Surface Temperature Reconstructions for the Past 2,000 Years" was assembled by the National Research Council's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Research_Council) Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate. The Committee consisted of 12 scientists from different disciplines and was tasked with explaining the current scientific information on the temperature record for the past two millennia, and identifying the main areas of uncertainty, the principal methodologies used, any problems with these approaches, and how central the debate is to the state of scientific knowledge on global climate change.
The panel published its report in 2006.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy#cite_note-nasreport-28) The report agreed that there were statistical shortcomings in the MBH analysis, but concluded that they were small in effect. The report summarizes its main findings as follows:[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy#cite_note-29)

The instrumentally measured warming of about 0.6 °C (1.1 °F) during the 20th century is also reflected in borehole temperature measurements, the retreat of glaciers, and other observational evidence, and can be simulated with climate models.
Large-scale surface temperature reconstructions yield a generally consistent picture of temperature trends during the preceding millennium, including relatively warm conditions centered around A.D. 1000 (identified by some as the “Medieval Warm Period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period)”) and a relatively cold period (or “Little Ice Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age)”) centered around 1700. The existence and extent of a Little Ice Age from roughly 1500 to 1850 is supported by a wide variety of evidence including ice cores, tree rings, borehole temperatures, glacier length records, and historical documents. Evidence for regional warmth during medieval times can be found in a diverse but more limited set of records including ice cores, tree rings, marine sediments, and historical sources from Europe and Asia, but the exact timing and duration of warm periods may have varied from region to region, and the magnitude and geographic extent of the warmth are uncertain.
It can be said with a high level of confidence that global mean surface temperature was higher during the last few decades of the 20th century than during any comparable period during the preceding four centuries. This statement is justified by the consistency of the evidence from a wide variety of geographically diverse proxies.
Less confidence can be placed in large-scale surface temperature reconstructions for the period from A.D. 900 to 1600. Presently available proxy evidence indicates that temperatures at many, but not all, individual locations were higher during the past 25 years than during any period of comparable length since A.D. 900. The uncertainties associated with reconstructing hemispheric mean or global mean temperatures from these data increase substantially backward in time through this period and are not yet fully quantified.
Very little confidence can be assigned to statements concerning the hemispheric mean or global mean surface temperature prior to about A.D. 900 because of sparse data coverage and because the uncertainties associated with proxy data and the methods used to analyze and combine them are larger than during more recent time periods.
In response, a group-authored post on RealClimate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealClimate), of which Mann is one of the contributors, stated, "the panel has found reason to support the key mainstream findings of past research, including points that we have highlighted previously."[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy#cite_note-30) Similarly, according to Roger A. Pielke, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_A._Pielke_(Jr)), the National Research Council publication constituted a "near-complete vindication for the work of Mann et al.";[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy#cite_note-31) Nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(journal)) reported it as "Academy affirms hockey-stick graph."[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy#cite_note-32)

[grandma]

Never mind.
I do believe in questioning, but using the tools of pundentry in blogs to refute peer review scientific research is not the way to change the facts. I also know that groups will use these facts to spin their point of view whether that be going totally green or staying business as usual. Our policy makers will be the ones that have the final say on the direction we take. We could ignore the science and just ....

First - I was not aware that the link about Gov Dixie (as she was called)was a blog -my familiarity with blogs is what I see/read on this MB. I hadn't been able to locate what I was looking for, saw that, & thought it would be an interesting introduction to her for the folks on this MB too young, or too far away from the Pacific Northwest to recognize her. So, yes, I agree that is no way to debate a point, and I apologize to you for using it. But the point that I am or she was, refuting peer review is questionable when there is, and has been, peer review on both sides of this fence. I will acknowledge that some of the scientific journals have been reluctant to print anything that is not of their editorial viewpoint. Even as she was a notable scientist in her own right. As for groups - I doubt if even Dixie's most adamant opponent would ever say she was part of any group. And during her time, she didn't need to `spin facts,' for any point-of-view.
My education is not scientifically technical, in fact, it isn't scientific at all,
but I am able to glean enough from the different (underscore DIFFERENT) news reports to determine for myself which seems the most reliable ...
... that any global warming going on is cyclical, is not caused by humans, and if enough carbon is eliminated to satisfy these scientists, humans will have to be on oxygen masks. :nuts:
That fact remains there are two camps here, two opposing ideas, both presenting information, however, one pushing scare & manipulated data.....
grandma

[Buster]

Since Wikipedia is in reality a vast and changing document the answers can only be general. The information contained in Wikipedia, like all information, depends on the knowledge or the ability of the person giving the information. Where they don't have specific knowledge of a particular subject they rely on the accuracy of their sources of information, which may be limited or, in questions of opinion, may give a somewhat biased view, (as everyone tends to do) based on the conclusions they have reached from their own viewpoint and/or study.

Another problem with Wikipedia is that it is 'consensus driven' in that the policy regarding answers relating to opinion requires a consensus view to be put. This may be the correct view, or as we all know, 'the majority is not always right.' The majority once thought the earth was the center of the universe. Thus we end up with pooled ignorance.

On matters of opinion, such as religious or moral questions, there must be due recognition that any answer will inevitably reflect either the bias of the writer of the article or the current consensus view or what the author or authors think is the current consensus view. All of these could be wrong, either in whole or in part, but will naturally be well-presented as fact and with supporting argumentation, which may or may not be spurious, if one does not have the knowledge to critique it.

In other words, as with anything, learn to check your facts, no matter how well argued.

[malyla]

I will acknowledge that some of the scientific journals have been reluctant to print anything that is not of their editorial viewpoint.

to determine for myself which seems the most reliable ...
... that any global warming going on is cyclical, is not caused by humans, and if enough carbon is eliminated to satisfy these scientists, humans will have to be on oxygen masks. :nuts:


What proof do you have on the first assertion that scientific journals are biased? The process for peer review and publication is a time consuming rigorous process not allowing for editorial viewpoint to decide the publishability of a paper. If the author can support their conclusion with valid data using the scientific method, then the paper is published. If the author can not prove their conclusion with data using a repeatable scientific method, then it will not be published. Even if it's published, it's always open for challenge causing more proof to be presented. It is VERY embarrassing to a scientist when an error that changes the results of their conclusion is found after publication as reputation is everything in the science community.
What do you have to back up your second assertion? The data is laid out, that this global warming in more than natural forcings, in the IPCC report. It's not that long and is the current state of climate change research. It even tells you where the controversies still exist and what scientists are still working on. We will not need gas masks and we can breathe a lot of CO2 and survive. So can the Earth. It's the warming that CO2 causes that changes, both short and long term, weather patterns which can affect humans and species on the ground. That's the concern.:worried:

[malyla]

Since Wikipedia is in reality a vast and changing document the answers can only be general. The information contained in Wikipedia, like all information, depends on the knowledge or the ability of the person giving the information. Where they don't have specific knowledge of a particular subject they rely on the accuracy of their sources of information, which may be limited or, in questions of opinion, may give a somewhat biased view, (as everyone tends to do) based on the conclusions they have reached from their own viewpoint and/or study.

Another problem with Wikipedia is that it is 'consensus driven' in that the policy regarding answers relating to opinion requires a consensus view to be put. This may be the correct view, or as we all know, 'the majority is not always right.' The majority once thought the earth was the center of the universe. Thus we end up with pooled ignorance.

On matters of opinion, such as religious or moral questions, there must be due recognition that any answer will inevitably reflect either the bias of the writer of the article or the current consensus view or what the author or authors think is the current consensus view. All of these could be wrong, either in whole or in part, but will naturally be well-presented as fact and with supporting argumentation, which may or may not be spurious, if one does not have the knowledge to critique it.

In other words, as with anything, learn to check your facts, no matter how well argued.

So attack the book jacket and not the information inside. Clever:toung:

[Viva_La_Migra]

Never mind.

I do believe in questioning, but using the tools of pundentry in blogs to refute peer review scientific research is not the way to change the facts. I also know that groups will use these facts to spin their point of view whether that be going totally green or staying business as usual. Our policy makers will be the ones that have the final say on the direction we take. We could ignore the science and just continue business as usually and react to the climate changes as they happen or we can make small steps towards limiting CO2 emission which will lead to new technology, more energy independance from the middle east, and just a little more control over our enviroment. There are powerful forces for business as usual as oil is BIG business and is the worlds main energy source. Any thing that threatens that supremacy is in for a very hard fight and sometimes that fight leads to extreme behavior and comments on both sides of the issue. 'What to do' is the battleground. The science is not perfect, but it is overwelmingly showing that global warming and the climate change consequences are real. This other opinion about global warming being a hoax is just a smoke screen to cover up for no better argument about 'what do to'. I'm of two opinions on what to do: Nothing and react to the changes, however, this causes extreme reactions that I do not like or in most cases do not want to live through; or do something to limit the releasing of million year old solar energy locked up in the carbon of plants and liquidfied or compressed into oil,gas,coal for release today through the buring of this fossil fuel. We are changing the energy balance of the planet by releasing this previously trapped energy and we can continue to control this energy balance by controlling the thermostat to keep the climate comfortable for the majority of humans. It would be the first 'conscience' step in terraforming a planet for human habitation. I recommend baby steps but steps never-the-less.
I believe the CO2 problem will indeed get worse as a result of man's manipulation of the environment. You will see the best example in Southern California, where water shortages are forcing municipalities to impose water rationing and are encouraging land owners to install "draught" resistant plants or fake grass in order to save water. This will cause CO2 levels to rise, because people either aren't watering their grass, or have replaced real oxygen producing plants with fake ones, and there will not be enough plants to take CO2 out of the air and release Oxygen back into the air. It's a self fulfilling prophecy caused by environmentalists.

By the way, why is there a water shortage in Southern California? Environmentalists are trying to save a sardine like fish up near Sacramento and have made it near impossible for sufficient fresh water to be sent to Southern California. There's also not enough water to go to farms, so many of the states farmers aren't growing crops, which is driving up the cost of food in the state.

Why do environmentalists hate human beings so much?

[CountryBoy]

I burned a tire this past weekend in honor of Algore. :D Seriously though some scientists have actually considered starting controlled forest fires, based on the hypothosis that the smoke would block out the suns rays and cool the earth. Climate is always changing and in 40 years scientist will be sying were entering a new ice age, like they claimed in the mid 70's.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513242,00.html (Now he can control the weather. ;)

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-3800402.html

These don't carry the scientific authority that wiki foes, but on a moments notice.

CB

[malyla]

Climate is always changing and in 40 years scientist will be sying were entering a new ice age, like they claimed in the mid 70's.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513242,00.html (Now he can control the weather. ;)
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-3800402.html
These don't carry the scientific authority that wiki does, but on a moments notice.

CB

Thanks CB. Interesting that policy makers are looking at fixing the problem (cooling the Earth) by everything other than stopping the greenhouse gas emissions. These other solutions are quicker than slowing the supertanker by eliminating the CO2 emissions, but highly technical and have unknown consequences but at least they are talking about solutions. I think we need a decade-long series of active volcanism to naturally shield the Earth from the Sun in an aerosol mirror, but I don't know how to get a volcano to erupt (Where is Goldfinger when we need him?). I hope a nuclear winter solution is taken off the table quickly with the guy who suggests it getting thrown out of the room:worried::sick:

Hey - this is my 500 post <party at my place>:nuts:

[nnuut]

Congratulations on your 500th post malyla, and a bunch or GOOD ONES they were!!:D

[grandma]

Congratulations on your 500th post malyla, and a bunch or GOOD ONES they were!!:D

ditto !!!:D

[Buster]

You really want something to worry about?....Try "the coming Ice Age"
Global warming predictions by meteorologists are based on speculative, untested, and poorly constrained computer models. But our knowledge of ice ages is based on a wide variety of reliable data, including cores from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. In this case, it would be perspicacious to listen to the geologists, not the meteorologists. By reducing our production of carbon dioxide, we risk hastening the advent of the next ice age. Even more foolhardy and dangerous is the Obama administration's announcement that they may try to cool the planet through geoengineering. Such a move in the middle of a cooling trend could provoke the irreversible onset of an ice age. It is not hyperbole to state that such a climatic change would mean the end of human civilization as we know it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_coming_ice_age.html

[malyla]

You really want something to worry about?....Try "the coming Ice Age"

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_coming_ice_age.html


This was discredited in the 1990s. If no extra greenhouse gas warming occurred, then yes, natural forcings would lead to cooling (maybe not for the same reason as the event that caused the little ice age even though they site it). BUT, the greenhouse effect has been augmented by human burning of stored solar energy and that has led to the 90% probability that the lack of sun spots will NOT lead to the cooling effects of a new ice age. It may lead to a slowdown of the climate change we have seen as of date, but, it will continue. Humans CAN affect the enviroment. The choice is to recognize this and therefore control it or just let events roll over us as we continue 'business as usual'. I love a debate, but this one is rather one sided when it come to real evidence (using conservative blogs to make a point where no clear evidence is presented has reach the tedious stage). So, enjoy your 'yelling fire in a crowded movie theater' time. One of these times you might be right and actually save some people (although how you offset that from the deaths of people trampled in the previous false alarms is debatable). G.L.

[wv-girl]

Hi All,

Been real busy lately, but came across this link earlier this evening. I didn't take the time to see if someone here has already posted, so if it has please forgive the possible double post.
Another view:

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/?p=572

[Buster]

This was discredited in the 1990s.

Funny..it mentions the Obama admin..didn't he just get elected last November?....I could of sworn he did:confused:


Global warming predictions by meteorologists are based on speculative, untested, and poorly constrained computer models. But our knowledge of ice ages is based on a wide variety of reliable data, including cores from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. In this case, it would be perspicacious to listen to the geologists, not the meteorologists. By reducing our production of carbon dioxide, we risk hastening the advent of the next ice age. Even more foolhardy and dangerous is the Obama administration's announcement that they may try to cool the planet through geoengineering. Such a move in the middle of a cooling trend could provoke the irreversible onset of an ice age. It is not hyperbole to state that such a climatic change would mean the end of human civilization as we know it.

[malyla]

Funny..it mentions the Obama admin..didn't he just get elected last November?....I swear he did:confused:

YAWN! :notrust:

Good night and good bye. If you actually read the IPCC reports or any peer reviewed papers - send me a PM and we will discuss them. I'm out of here.

[Viva_La_Migra]

YAWN! :notrust:

Good night and good bye. If you actually read the IPCC reports or any peer reviewed papers - send me a PM and we will discuss them. I'm out of here.
No comment on my thoughts of water rationing, CO2 levels, and self fulfilling prophecies in Southern California? I know I only presented my own personal opinion and didn't have any peer reviewed papers to cite, but I thought you'd have an opinion on the matter.

[CountryBoy]

Thanks CB. Interesting that policy makers are looking at fixing the problem (cooling the Earth) by everything other than stopping the greenhouse gas emissions. These other solutions are quicker than slowing the supertanker by eliminating the CO2 emissions, but highly technical and have unknown consequences but at least they are talking about solutions. I think we need a decade-long series of active volcanism to naturally shield the Earth from the Sun in an aerosol mirror, but I don't know how to get a volcano to erupt (Where is Goldfinger when we need him?). I hope a nuclear winter solution is taken off the table quickly with the guy who suggests it getting thrown out of the room:worried::sick:

Hey - this is my 500 post <party at my place>:nuts:

Congrats on the 500 malyla,

Some wacky ideas for sure. It just goes to show ya, that they have only the faintest idea on what to do. Actually Krakatoa come some validity to that. I can't wait to see what nightmare carbon sequestration in the ground will cause :blink:. I'm not sure these idiots remember their physics or chemistry. I know if it were happening near me, I'd have my water tested to obtain a baseline condition.

CB

[Show-me]

In northern Europe, the Little Ice Age kicked off with the Great Famine of 1315. Crops failed due to cold temperatures and incessant rain. Desperate and starving, parents ate their children, and people dug up corpses from graves for food. In jails, inmates instantly set upon new prisoners and ate them alive.


Wow.:worried:

[nnuut]

Wow.:worried:
I think it would have been a smart thing TO MOVE SOUTH!!! DUH!!! 7025

[Buster]

Wow.:worried:
Ah...you can believe something that was verifiable as late as this year, but yet ridiculously claimed to be discredited with no specific dates or references in the 1990's by Algorites...LOL:rolleyes:


YAWN!

[nnuut]

Their using Global warming to PROMOTE and is the first step to a single WORLD GOVERNMENT, Bill Clinton will be KING and his father Jimmy 7026 is the next in line for the throne!!:rolleyes:

[grandma]

Hi All,

Been real busy lately, but came across this link earlier this evening. I didn't take the time to see if someone here has already posted, so if it has please forgive the possible double post.
Another view:

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/?p=572
Whoa, wv-girl! That is some video ! - and is so creditable !
Is that on YouTube yet? Things like this make one so aware that simply reading/watching this information isn't an option...publicizing is necessary.
Considering this speech was just last week, I wonder how many members of Congress are even aware it was given? The World government threat
has been growing closer to `our time' with every administration for years. We all remember the threat of putting our Rangers, Troopers under UN controll. But today - gee whiz - makes me sick :sick: to think this is what our president was elected to do !!! :sick::sick: Thank you for bringing this to our attention! grandma

[Buster]

Hi All,

Been real busy lately, but came across this link earlier this evening. I didn't take the time to see if someone here has already posted, so if it has please forgive the possible double post.
Another view:

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/?p=572
WOW!...That is scary..thanks for sharing..:(

[CountryBoy]

That is scary and very credible, adds more credence to the reson that bHo got the prize from the folks in Copenhagen, quid pro quo. I have no doubt that this administration would cede US sovereignty to the UN without a second thought if it meant more power. :mad: It'll be done in such a manner that the frogs in the warming pan of water will never know what happened.

CB

[Steadygain]

You guys (gals included here) have me kind of laughing :)

and I appreciate it !!

It's funny to think that any individual --- oh my gosh -- who just happens to be a Dem -- a Black -- a Man -- whatever

That any 'Individual' on our Planet --- regardless of their 'position' would be able to change or even in the slightest degree - ULTER the course of Global Warming fully at hand.

YES -- my friends -- everyone of you laugh as much as you want; and randomly execute any individual you think honesly can change what is --- and it won't have any impact what so ever.

WE - the Human Race - have deliberately polluted and destroyed almost every aspect of HEALTH to our Planet -- and now at long last WE are ALL going to pay the price.

I predict the 'Sickness' of our Planet -- will override every other factor -- including the Markets and the Economy

I'm for the EARTH and RESPONSIBLE LIVING --

Your Friend,
Phil

[Viva_La_Migra]

You guys (gals included here) have me kind of laughing :)

and I appreciate it !!

It's funny to think that any individual --- oh my gosh -- who just happens to be a Dem -- a Black -- a Man -- whatever

That any 'Individual' on our Planet --- regardless of their 'position' would be able to change or even in the slightest degree - ULTER the course of Global Warming fully at hand.

YES -- my friends -- everyone of you laugh as much as you want; and randomly execute any individual you think honesly can change what is --- and it won't have any impact what so ever.

WE - the Human Race - have deliberately polluted and destroyed almost every aspect of HEALTH to our Planet -- and now at long last WE are ALL going to pay the price.

I predict the 'Sickness' of our Planet -- will override every other factor -- including the Markets and the Economy

I'm for the EARTH and RESPONSIBLE LIVING --

Your Friend,
Phil
If you subscribe to the concept of "manifesting", then yes one person can alter the course of global warming or climate change or whatever it's going to be called in the future. Remember, prayer is powerful!

[Buster]

If you subscribe to the concept of "manifesting", then yes one person can alter the course of global warming or climate change or whatever it's going to be called in the future. Remember, prayer is powerful!
Now that's making some sense...Just like it says on our money..http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nKh88ysnmrJQzM:http://blakeallendesign.com/wp-content/money.jpg

[wv-girl]

Now that's making some sense...Just like it says on our money..http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nKh88ysnmrJQzM:http://blakeallendesign.com/wp-content/money.jpg


Wonder whos face will be on the new world order money----that is if any is printed or minted---may just be electronic? ummm

In him/her/it we fear. Now I am getting giddy, need some sleep. Nite,nite.

[Buster]

Wonder whos face will be on the new world order money----


Maybe the word might be FACES...take your pick..
http://petetheswede.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/_45626597_g20family_getty_766.jpg

[Steadygain]

yes one person can alter the course of global warming or climate change or whatever it's going to be called in the future.

Remember, prayer is powerful!

Wow talk about a HUGE and Deligate Subject !!

There is no doubt that 'Prayer' and it's power even exceeds a Nuclear Bomb. There is nothing that we could ever posess that would exceed the Power of Prayer -- for our own LIFE and the lives of those connected with us.

BUT This in itself is the very reason why many have abandoned God altogether. Whenever we come to see God as working outside of the inevitable consequences of our actions -- we fall into despair and walk away totally defeated, angry, and disappointed.

The power of prayer will do little good if I give you a glass of poison to drink before hand; if I have explosives activated to hurt or kill you, if I do a zillion other things that 'once set in course' or something that has already transpired to cause destruction has done its damage.

Unfortunately GOD does not work like a Magician -- but gives us the freedom to do as we will. Our misconception of GOD in turn forces us into disbelief and turn against Him. It is the saddest and most tragic event I know of that can happen to any person.

So if Mankind has made every effort to destroy the Forrests, to Plow down the Mountains and fill the Valleys, to repeatedly contaminate all Rivers, Oceans, and Streams. If they collectively and repeatedly pollute and distroy the Atmosphere itself -- and do many other things that work against the Health of our Planet....

Then the very best we could do in relation to God and Prayer is pray that we would have the Ability to endure the consequences and not hold that against HIM. That we would have both the insight and the understanding that it is our Neglect -- and not HIS lack of compassion, love, and goodness -- nor all the more HIS DESIRE for our very best -- that is responsible for the horrible and worsening conditions we will have to endure.

[Buster]

For the record..I am a God believing, nondemoniational, raised Catholic, non practicing except in my own church....

A Why Question:

Why do we read and have heard that God had so much to do with DIRECTLY, early man (e.g., Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Saul, and as Jesus in mortal form, etc)..and we never hear of any one on one involvement with anyone like in the past with him today?

Just a question, I have no doubts of why I'm here and or where I'll be going..just wondering out loud as God gave me the mind to be able to do so..

[CountryBoy]

Just a thought. I'm far from a theologian, though I have attended church since a wee little one, but maybe he'll be the false prophet, with the mark, 666, though somewhere along the line I may have read where Joseph Smith spoke with God, but I could be mistaken. :o

[CapeChem]

because we label anyone who say's that they here from God as a lunatic......Or maybe we are just not listening for his voice anymore.

[Steadygain]

Why do we read and have heard that God had so much to do with DIRECTLY, early man (e.g., Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Saul, and as Jesus in mortal form, etc)..

and we never hear of any one on one involvement with anyone like in the past with him today?


The main reason is because the overwhelming bulk of Huge Spiritual Transformations are occuring in areas of the World -- outside of the USA.

That's why my daughter in Korea is heading to a place in Africa during her break in 1/10.

The GREATEST REASON by far is because the American Media does not 'waste their time' with people that really stand out as Spiritual Giants and undoubtedly Prove the Power of God in their lives by showing the thousands of lives that have been totally transformed because of them.

There are a number of people Today -- doing very huge things.

If you're interested I could recommend a few books or elaborate on some things happening today

[2EASY]

[/B]

If you're interested I could recommend a few books or elaborate on some things happening today

Yep - The Audacity of Hope by our President is a good book to read :)

[Viva_La_Migra]

because we label anyone who say's that they here from God as a lunatic......Or maybe we are just not listening for his voice anymore.
There's a great deal of truth and wisdom in your statement CapeChem. Fantastic post!

[Viva_La_Migra]

Yep - The Audacity of Hope by our President is a good book to read :)
I recommend Liberty and Tyranny, a Conservative Manifesto by Mark Levin.

[Show-me]

For the record..I am a God believing, nondemoniational, raised Catholic, non practicing except in my own church....

A Why Question:

Why do we read and have heard that God had so much to do with DIRECTLY, early man (e.g., Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Saul, and as Jesus in mortal form, etc)..and we never hear of any one on one involvement with anyone like in the past with him today?

Just a question, I have no doubts of why I'm here and or where I'll be going..just wondering out loud as God gave me the mind to be able to do so..

Are you saying that you talk to God and He talks back? :nuts:

Why not? But the public perception is that you are nuts. Why? Because they do not believe or can not or do not want to hear? Living by Gods book is hard but I learn more every day. James has taught me a lot, weather he knows it or not. Thanks James. Mainly about the lending of money. Many times we latch onto what we like and not what is Gods law.

God speaks to me daily through my conscious and dreams. It us up to me to hear and act. Free will.

[Buster]

Thank you all..Great wisdom here and good food for thought..thanks again..:)

[budnipper1]

For the record..I am a God believing, nondemoniational, raised Catholic, non practicing except in my own church....

A Why Question:

Why do we read and have heard that God had so much to do with DIRECTLY, early man (e.g., Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Saul, and as Jesus in mortal form, etc)..and we never hear of any one on one involvement with anyone like in the past with him today?

Just a question, I have no doubts of why I'm here and or where I'll be going..just wondering out loud as God gave me the mind to be able to do so..

I'm a long way short of being a preacher, but these are my thoughts:
(ps...howdy everybody. Long time since I broadcasted my 2 cents here, but I do check in now and then. Wish you all well!)

In the biblical ages of the Old Testament, God performed miracles (and spoke
directly to the apostles) to show proof of His existance and of his supreme
power. His miracles showed mankind the undeniable evidence needed for
believing that we should honor and obey his teachings. The New Testament
was completed to document these miracles, and to teach us how to believe and
develope our faith. The New Testament marked the end of the era of
miracles. God should not be expected to keep proving himself to us by
continuously performing miracles.

http://www.gospelway.com/god/miracles_duration.php (http://www.gospelway.com/god/miracles_duration.php)
/ "Conclusion: Miracles and spiritual gifts played an essential role in
God's plan. We must appreciate and understand that role. The miraculous
powers were essential to reveal the word of God, record it in the
Scriptures, and confirm it to be God's will. We need to respect and
appreciate that message. However, when the message was completed, the gifts
were no longer needed, so they ceased. To believe otherwise is to
misunderstand God's will and show a lack of respect for Scripture. Many
false doctrines have been believed and practiced as a result."/

John 20:29-31 (King James Version)
29-Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast
believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30-And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples,
which are not written in this book:

31-But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 20:29-31 (New King James Version)
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may
believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you
may have life in His name.

[Buster]

The New Testament
was completed to document these miracles, and to teach us how to believe and
develope our faith. The New Testament marked the end of the era of
miracles. God should not be expected to keep proving himself to us by
continuously performing miracles.

.Awesome reply Bud..thank you and that makes me understand even more now, the WHY...:)


PS: Welcome back, I've missed our banter..:D

[WorkFE]

(ps...howdy everybody. Long time since I broadcasted my 2 cents here, but I do check in now and then. Wish you all well!)

You can give us your 2 cents worth but these are investors so most of the people on this MB are only going to give you a penny for your thoughts.:D

[CountryBoy]

Welcome back Budnipper1. :D

And a very good response!

CB

[grandma]

Hi budnipper - it is good to see/hear from you again! However, I do have to disagree with some of your post.

/ "Conclusion: Miracles and spiritual gifts played an essential role in God's plan. We must appreciate and understand that role. The miraculous powers were essential to reveal the word of God, record it in the Scriptures, and confirm it to be God's will. We need to respect and appreciate that message. However, when the message was completed, the gifts were no longer needed, so they ceased. To believe otherwise is to misunderstand God's will and show a lack of respect for Scripture. Many false doctrines have been believed and practiced as a result."/

..and I have no doubt that there are many missionaries in So America, Asia, among other countries, who will also sincerely, emphatically disagree that miracles have ceased, that the Spiritual powers are not essential.
If these witnessed & documented events are denied, or attributed to other than the Resurrection Power, that may very well grieve the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is here, and speaks to ANYone who purposes to listen. To imply that when Paul, Peter, and the other Apostles were no longer living, that God's gifts evaporated is to ignore the History of the Church, of Christianity. This disagreement has been part of the history from the time that Paul had to go back, chasten & re-teach churches he had established.
And at what point do the writings in the NT become Scripture? If at the moment of being written, that would mean no further gifts demonstrated as each Gospel, Epistle, Revelation was completed? It was some 60 years after the Resurrection before some of these were written.
Latourette in The History of Christianity documents not only the mind & letter writing battles of the days of the Epistles, but also the sword/lance battles because of these disagreements. He takes no sides, just documents...extensive, but fascinating reading. Correction: he does side on the fact of Jesus as the Risen Messiah.

[Buster]

Grandma..I see what your are saying..there are miracles happening all the time ..Birth is one to speak of..But what I think Bud was referring to as, the cessation of direct miracles from GOD was more along the lines of, that we will not see too many more partings of the Red Sea or the raising of the dead as in Lazarus, or water into wine, or a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish to feed thousands, or Manna in the middle of the desert, as an example..;)

[Steadygain]

Budnipper -- WELCOME BACK !!

I thought your post was beautiful and Thank You !!




..and I have no doubt that there are many missionaries in So America, Asia, among other countries, who will also sincerely, emphatically disagree that miracles have ceased, that the Spiritual powers are not essential.


They are incredibly ESSENTIAL -- for they more than anything else show the Reality of God's Power over everything. It testifies that Jesus and the Spirit of God are everybit as Alive Today as when Jesus walked on the earth. Miracles have far from ceased -- and our potiential to 'participate in them' can be a daily experience. Not by our Power -- but by the Power and Presense of the Living God.

[Steadygain]

But what I think Bud was referring to as, the cessation of direct miracles from GOD was more along the lines of, that we will not see too many more partings of the Red Sea or the raising of the dead as in Lazarus, or water into wine, or a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish to feed thousands, or Manna in the middle of the desert, as an example..;)

Miracles along these lines have far from ceased my friend and it's wonderful that I can chuckle in delight when I read this. Please know that I am familar with numerous Miracles occuring today -- The Dead being brought back to Life -- and many along those lines.

[budnipper1]

Hi grandma... My belief is that the New Testament was written by the apostles to show us how God wants us to live. The old Testament is a history book which shows us where we came from and how we got here. You likely know much more than I do about the Bible. But, I've been taught that it is our responsibility to teach others, such as those underprivileged people in the countries you mentioned, about God. We are expected do this by educating them, by providing them with the Bible and helping them study and understand what it teaches. We should also show them the benefits of living accordingly, not just with our words but with how we conduct ourselves daily. Christians are not expected to perform miracles, nor do we have the power to do so, in order to convince people about the presence of God. In the New Testament, Christians are taught that a person who claims to perform miracles, or to claim that they have even witnessed such miracles, are "false prophets". As far as the exact moment in which the New Testament became the new law, I do not know. I do know that my faith and beliefs are built on what it teaches. This is likely one of those " we can agree to disagree" moments when I should get down off my pulpit. It was good to hear from you again, too.

Buster: I love you too, man! :o

WorkFE: I heard THAT! I doubt if it was even worth THAT much! :D

CountryBoy: Thankyu-thankuverymuch! :)

[CountryBoy]

Hi grandma... My belief is that the New Testament was written by the apostles to show us how God wants us to live. The old Testament is a history book which shows us where we came from and how we got here. You likely know much more than I do about the Bible. But, I've been taught that it is our responsibility to teach others, such as those underprivileged people in the countries you mentioned, about God. We are expected do this by educating them, by providing them with the Bible and helping them study and understand what it teaches. We should also show them the benefits of living accordingly, not just with our words but with how we conduct ourselves daily. Christians are not expected to perform miracles, nor do we have the power to do so, in order to convince people about the presence of God. In the New Testament, Christians are taught that a person who claims to perform miracles, or to claim that they have even witnessed such miracles, are "false prophets". As far as the exact moment in which the New Testament became the new law, I do not know. I do know that my faith and beliefs are built on what it teaches. This is likely one of those " we can agree to disagree" moments when I should get down off my pulpit. It was good to hear from you again, too.

Buster: I love you too, man! :o

WorkFE: I heard THAT! I doubt if it was even worth THAT much! :D

CountryBoy: Thankyu-thankuverymuch! :)

Budnipper,

I agree and believe the same thing, regarding the Old and New Testaments. Each of us has to find our own way and discuss religion only when asked.

CB

[grandma]

Christians are not expected to perform miracles, nor do we have the power to do so, in order to convince people about the presence of God. In the New Testament, Christians are taught that a person who claims to perform miracles, or to claim that they have even witnessed such miracles, are "false prophets".

Budnipper, I regret if anyof my post indicated that I believe, or even think, that Christians can, are able, are expected, and therefore do, perform miracles. I meant to stress that all comes from the Lord, with/thru the Holy Spirit. Limiting Him to only what is believed by a particular person/denomination is probably not the wisest thing a man can do. When missionaries who are living with, and having known personally, the folks they are telling of, of the blind seeing, the deaf hearing, the lame walking; and when short term trippers are seeing this too, I am unwilling to refute it - especially since I know the witnesses personally myself. A family of 4 who have been in middle Africa for 10 years, another family who has built a compound in the mountains of Hondurus over the past 25 years - teaching them to make/sell fishing flies, to grow their own crops, to have a coffe-bean grove....not only demonstrating God's love for each He created, but teaching, sharing: sending out their own native missionaries into Asia, etc.
:)And I do agree we can disagree, even within the congregation I worship with (interdenominational) there are these same disagreements - I just find myself compelled to make a statement in favor of the Holy Spirit when I think He is being neglected. ! Love ya - grandma:)

[nnuut]

We could use a few really GOOD miracles right now, HOW IS THE WEATHER?:laugh:

[budnipper1]

We could use a few really GOOD miracles right now, HOW IS THE WEATHER?:laugh:

It's WET in Perry County! How's it going, nnuut! It's a 'miracle' that I'm still kickin' and wasting perfectly good air! :D

[nnuut]

It's WET in Perry County! How's it going, nnuut! It's a 'miracle' that I'm still kickin' and wasting perfectly good air! :D
Hey, BN1 nice to hear from you!! Looks like we have a front coming with some thunder boomers, a little rain is good. I'm still counting down the days until I retire, getting close will submit the papers Nov. 12th!! I'm looking forward to it, just think they pay you and you don't have to get up and go to work, what a deal, but of course you know how that feels. As long as Global Warming doesn't fry us all it should be GOOD!!!:laugh: December 31st, my last day!!! 7055
Every day you're vertical is a good one!!:toung:

[budnipper1]

Hey, BN1 nice to hear from you!! Looks like we have a front coming with some thunder boomers, a little rain is good. I'm still counting down the days until I retire, getting close will submit the papers Nov. 12th!! I'm looking forward to it, just think they pay you and you don't have to get up and go to work, what a deal, but of course you know how that feels. As long as Global Warming doesn't fry us all it should be GOOD!!!:laugh: December 31st, my last day!!! 7055
Every day you're vertical is a good one!!:toung:

Glad to hear it, nnuut... being retired is where it's at! No boss, no alarm clocks, stress level = ZERO! :D I probably couldn't hold down a job now if I HAD to... lazy to the bones!

[nnuut]

Glad to hear it, nnuut... being retired is where it's at! No boss, no alarm clocks, stress level = ZERO! :D I probably couldn't hold down a job now if I HAD to... lazy to the bones!
YES SIR, I LIKE IT!!
You still floating around on the Budnipper1, or is it too cold, due to Global Warming?:D
7056

[Buster]

Right behind you guys..June 1st is my last day..I'm getting kinda nervous too, I will admit...Gulp..:worried:

[Steadygain]

Miracles have far from ceased -- and our potiential to 'participate in them' can be a daily experience. Not by our Power -- but by the Power and Presense of the Living God.

Hi Grandma :)

I'm heading home for the weekend but thought I'd share a few things. There is no doubt that your message - and mine - were very clear. It is not something people in general either want to talk about or even think about -- and that's why all the more YOU are one of the few to really know.




Each of us has to find our own way and discuss religion only when asked.

CB

Not trying to push anything on you CB -- or anyone else.

I would say all the more 'each of us has to find our own way and discuss politics only when asked.'

As a rule growing up -- you don't talk about Politics, Money, or Religion. Politics was always the first one because it was by far the one that caused the greatest arguments.

This discussion has already died -- but was innocently brought up in relation to the power of prayer.

Anyway -- have a good weekend.



I regret if any of my post

not only demonstrating God's love for each He created, but teaching, sharing: sending out their own native missionaries into Asia, etc.

I just find myself compelled to make a statement in favor of the Holy Spirit when I think He is being neglected.

I regret you have 'To Regret'

That an awkwarkness has to dominate anything remotely connected to the most important aspect of our existence - and any genuine effort to make it known is really sad.

Thanks for sharing Grandma and have a good weekend.

[nnuut]

Right behind you guys..June 1st is my last day..I'm getting kinda nervous too, I will admit...Gulp..:worried:
Like I just said "LET THE COUNT DOWN BEGIN" SHORT!!
Time until Tuesday, June 1, 2010 (Richmond time)

220 days
5284 hours
317061 minutes
19023706 seconds
Alternative version


It is 220 days, 4 hours, 21 minutes and 46 seconds until Tuesday, June 1, 2010
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcount.html

[budnipper1]

Like I just said "LET THE COUNT DOWN BEGIN" SHORT!!
Time until Tuesday, June 1, 2010 (Richmond time)

220 days
5284 hours
317061 minutes
19023706 seconds
Alternative version


It is 220 days, 4 hours, 21 minutes and 46 seconds until Tuesday, June 1, 2010
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcount.html

I'm sure you guys have a "special" calendar hanging somewhere to mark the days off. I had one at work and another one at home because it felt so good to cross off the days, I liked to do it twice! :D Here's the one that I kept:

7058

[nnuut]

I have a dry erase board on the outside of my cube at work, I post the number of total days and estimated work days. I also have it in my signature below and the Oil Slick Stuff Home Page!! I try and not think about it too much at home but am failing big time!! 68 DAYS:D:D

[burrocrat]

I'm not very religious but i do consider myself a spiritual being. here's my two cents. it's a wonder we haven't all killed each other off yet, with all that's available we still manage to get along this road together, God does work miracles, everyday.

oh, and John 10:9, that's important.

you can never do a kindness to soon, for you never know when it will be too late.

[budnipper1]

I had to downsize after I retired...the ol' Budnipper1 used too much GAS!
When Global warming really heats up, it can double as a Hot Tub! :nuts:

7059

YES SIR, I LIKE IT!!
You still floating around on the Budnipper1, or is it too cold, due to Global Warming?:D
7056

[nnuut]

BN1 YOU ARE "THE MAN"!!!!:laugh:

[alevin]

Decent photoshop there, BN1. Is that there your fish or sumbody else's? :D

[Steadygain]

Christians are not expected to perform miracles, nor do we have the power to do so, in order to convince people about the presence of God. In the New Testament, Christians are taught that a person who claims to perform miracles, or to claim that they have even witnessed such miracles, are "false prophets".



I'm not very religious but i do consider myself a spiritual being. here's my two cents. it's a wonder we haven't all killed each other off yet, with all that's available we still manage to get along this road together, God does work miracles, everyday.

oh, and John 10:9, that's important.

you can never do a kindness to soon, for you never know when it will be too late.

I would say that our Spiritual Journey - and all we have gained in our deep knowledge of God - and all the more as we come to fully know and understand what GOD is all about IS WHOLLY DEPENDENT in allowing the Spirit of Love, Life, and Truth to dominate our existence. These are wholly dependent on how deeply and richly we allow ourselves to be open and willing to letting God take control of everything to do with our existence. I am convinced that the more richly one is committed in this endeavor and the more one persists in letting God's Spirit dominate their interactions and 'all relationships' the more you will see the undeniable presense of God's Power and in their life.

In the New Testament, Christians are taught that a person who claims to perform miracles, or to claim that they have even witnessed such miracles, are "false prophets".

The New Testament is filled with the real life accounts of God working through ordinary people like you and me to work in ways to show how all of us can be transformed into something beautiful; something whole and complete. There is absolutely no mistake that the miracles which occured in connection with many 'ordinary men and women' - were wholly through the Power and Presense of God living in them; and allowing them to be vessels of His Grace and Glory. None of them ever took credit for themselves -- but humbly acknowledged God's Spirit in them. Those who bore witness to these miricles and who testified to their validity -- were only giving first hand accounts of what God had done through ordinary people.

God does work miracles, everyday.

For God is everlasting - and His Relationship with us is very much a part of our existence - whether we accept that or not.

you can never do a kindness to soon, for you never know when it will be too late

Amen - my friend - and may that kindness be a true representation of the matchless and undeniable Grace and Glory of God in us.

[Valkyrie]

In the New Testament, Christians are taught that a person who claims to perform miracles, or to claim that they have even witnessed such miracles, are "false prophets".



provide the verses that teach this.

[Steadygain]

provide the verses that teach this.

I am thrilled beyond all measure that you are asking me for such clarification.

My friend -- please know that my last post clearly reflects the genuine and most sincere convictions that the statement you are asking me to 'support' is totally the opposite of all that GOD is and all He has clearly represented in His undeniable work through the average every day men and woman that have lived since the time of Jesus.

If I would provide verses teaching anything it would be totally the opposite of what you're asking... I would without the slightest degree of reservation or uncertainty -- prove that it is HIS LIFE and HIS SPIRIT that caused numerous miricles to occur throughout the New Testament since His Death and Resurection.

Beyond that -- I would be able to show how actively His Spirit is Alive today and make known the numerous miricles resulting from the abundance of His Grace and Power.

SO -- THE QUOTE YOU GAVE -- IS NOT 'MY QUOTE' BUT TAKEN FROM A 'HUMBLE' AND 'FRIENDLY' RESPONSE TO THAT QUOTE

[Buster]

Course, I can't express myself as eloquently as Steady..But I think that maybe he was referring to these verses in a matter of the way he writes....


Matthew 24:24 "false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." We are warned that we need to test the spirits of those who would ask us to trust and follow their teachings. Not all who claim to speak for God are truly his spokesmen. ;)

John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

[Steadygain]

Course, I can't express myself as eloquently as Steady..

Thank you my friend -- I am humbled :embarrest:

There is no way anything I say could come close to His Word

But I think that maybe he was referring to these verses in a matter of the way he writes....

Matthew 24:24 "false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect."
This is as true as God's miracles - the difference is wholly centered on the activity. If they stem from anything other than God's Grace and The Power of PURE LOVE - they are meant to take from it and in so doing will be grounded in deceit and end in destruction.

We are warned that we need to test the spirits of those who would ask us to trust and follow their teachings. Not all who claim to speak for God are truly his spokesmen. ;)

Those who are will undoubtedly be supported by His Word and knowing His Word more fully will all the more give the grounding needed to test 'the spirits'. Also anyone speaking for God would have to demonstate the Grace, Love, and Mercy which God represents -- so that all things stem from God and Point to God.

John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Thanks Buster -- good job

Also excellent job of acknowledging Budnipper1 in a beautiful way

[Valkyrie]

I am thrilled beyond all measure that you are asking me for such clarification.



Don't be thrilled, I wasn't asking for clarification for I know what the Word of the Lord states. However, u seem to twist it ever so slightly in all of your writtings.
U didn't put the statement in quotes indicating that u didn't write it and why I was asking for proof of those statements. I went back and now see it was budnipper that wrote it and that person can now respond.

[Steadygain]

Don't be thrilled,
This could be taken as 'Negative' - sometime meant as an attack or to be offensive

Well hopefully if you re-read what I wrote you will see that in no way did I mean to offend you.

I am always thrilled to expand on what God means to me and how I view His Word and when you asked the question with my name in reference to the question - I saw that as a wonderful opportunity to all the more make my views known.



I wasn't asking for clarification for I know what the Word of the Lord states.
This could also be viewed as a 'Negative' - more of a challenge

My response was not meant to offend you -- but only to express my deepest heartfelt convictions. If somehow I have made you hostile -- or angry -- it was not my intention.

'Provide the verses that teach this' -- sounded like you wanted clarification and since my name was highlighted I felt it was important to 'clarify'.


However, u seem to twist it ever so slightly in all of your writtings.
This is most certainly a 'Negative' and all the more emphasizes my previous views of your expressions.

PLEASE - I beg of you -- Please show me in what manner I twist the Word of the Lord and if you are RIGHT -- if I am honestly doing this then I openly promise you and everyone else that I'll never talk about God or the Word of the Lord on this MB again.

You have my word.

I am stressing the Matchless and Awesome -- all encompassing Grace and Love of GOD. Always trying to POINT to His Glory and beyond the shadow of any doubt make it very clear that the miracles He works in us - and through us - are wholly by His Spirit. It is His Strength and His Power at work and we can take no credit.


U didn't put the statement in quotes indicating that u didn't write it and why I was asking for proof of those statements.
Another Negative -- and another accusation

The POST you are referring to -- Begins with the Quote - and who the Quote comes from. I made every effort to make sure that 'it was understood' it did not come from me.

NO - Instead I made the quote clear to all -- and when I repeated it I deliberately made it in 'Black' to distinguish it from the rest.

I went back and now see it was budnipper that wrote it and that person can now respond.

Since 4 of your comments were directly addressing me I felt you deserved a response. When I went to a Bible College it was a common tradition to ask for the 'Verses' that support statements such as 'The Bible says' -- 'The New Testament says'....

so I honestly completely misunderstood your intentions.

[budnipper1]

Don't be thrilled, I wasn't asking for clarification for I know what the Word of the Lord states. However, u seem to twist it ever so slightly in all of your writtings.
U didn't put the statement in quotes indicating that u didn't write it and why I was asking for proof of those statements. I went back and now see it was budnipper that wrote it and that person can now respond.

Hi Valkyrie,
I'm not sure what you have assumed from my original comments about miracles, but maybe this will help clarify my beliefs. I really didn't plan on getting too deep into the subject since my limited knowlege of Bible scripture would soon prove me ignorant. Hopefully, I can continue to sit on the sidelines now, and just 'quietly' observe any furthur discussions, because I've already stated pretty much everything I know. (which ain't much.) :)

http://www.renaroadchurchofchrist.com/miracles_church_of_christ.htm (http://www.renaroadchurchofchrist.com/miracles_church_of_christ.htm)
"Many believe that God still works miracles today and imparts Christians, in varying degrees, with miraculous gifts through the Holy Spirit. Although no adequate proof is offered, those who profess this accept on faith that what they have experienced or are experiencing is miraculous. There are nine miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the New Testament (wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues). Some believe that a person is not confirmed as a true Christian until God endows him with some kind of spiritual gift (usually tongue speaking). Others profess that only certain Christians are endowed with miraculous gifts. Still others profess that since some gifts are greater than others (1Corinthians 12:31) God uses these gifts to single out certain individuals for various ministries. There are, no doubt, many other interpretations about how miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit are endowed and who can and cannot receive them. In this article I will give several reasons why I believe (1) that the New Testament does not support the teaching of some that miracles still happen today and (2) that there is no longer a need for miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit."
[Entire article: http://www.renaroadchurchofchrist.com/miracles_church_of_christ.htm ]

Conclusion (opinion) by David Banks:
The ultimate purpose of miracles was not to heal the sick, feed the hungry, cast out demons, or even to reveal God’s message to man. The ultimate purpose was to prove that the message was true and that those delivering the message were authorized by God to do so. While these miracles undoubtedly accomplished a great many wonderful things the sick who were healed got sick again, the filled man got hungry again and the man exercised of demons was subject to repossession. Miracles served their purpose and the word of God now confirmed does not need constant reconfirmation.

http://www.biblebb.com/BBB-GG-SOF.htm
God the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the bestowing of all His gifts for the perfecting of the saints today and that speaking in tongues and the working of sign miracles in the beginning days of the church were for the purpose of pointing to and authenticating the apostles as revealers of divine truth, and were never intended to be characteristic of the lives of believers.
1 Cor. 12:4-11 - 13:8-10
2 Cor. 12:12
Eph. 4:7-12
Heb. 2:1-4

[Steadygain]

you've uncovered one of the primary scripture-interpretive differences among Protestant churches-what scripture teaches about the ongoing nature of charismatic gifts vs. gifts of ministry

The charismatic gifts mean absolutely nothing to me -- and I in all sincereity do not mean this to offend anyone that finds a deepened realationship with God through them.

Any of my discussions - and all things I say - are wholly related to God's Activity in the LIVES of those who make a point of being open to God and letting Him demonstate the reality of HIS LOVE - LIFE - and POWER -- AS TESTAMENTS TO HIS UNFAILING AND EVERLASTING GRACE.

and the purpose and definition of miracles and whether they are still in effect.

To me -- GOD working directly within any person is a MIRACLE itself - but all the more I would say when we see first hand how GOD and only GOD can work through any person TO OTHER PEOPLE in a manner that results in a real and total Transformation -- that clearly indicates GOD'S POWER ALONE could have made this Transformation -- that I would consider a Miracle.

Don't think that one will go away-its ingrained one way or the other between denominations.

Demoninations mean nothing to me -- and I am not promoting any demonination -- but only making known GOD and the reality of HIS LIFE in US. That His Spirit is not only Transforming -- but it directly brings us into a LOVE that can only be known through GOD. This LOVE will be associated with qualities that reveal God's Grace and Mercy.

Baptist interps are on one side of the fence, pentecostals on the other side, most of the rest of us somewhere in between.

Again these are 'trivial' matters to me. What 'doctrines' give a church its distinct identity -- has nothing to do with what I would emphasize.

Valkyrie does NOT like you, I sense that will not change regardless what you say to "her".

Her view of me -- like or dislike -- is not something I would remotely be concerned with. The only thing that matters to me is that when I do speak of GOD or His WORD - that I do it in a manner that is unmistakeably pointing to HIS GRACE and GLORY and that I can solidly show beyond the shadow of any doubt that what I say is TRUE.

I am not bothered by her challenge -- or her accusations -- as I know undoubtedly in my heart of hearts that GOD HIMSELF will make known who is true and who is not. Which one is actively allowing His Grace and Love to be revealed; which one will stive to promote harmony and understanding. This is what is important - not if I am despised or admired.

I hope tho that person will actually point out how....

Again - thank you for your concern but my last paragraph will hopefullly show you -- it's not a 'personal thing' to me.

I sounds to me its more been building up awhile, and is as much personality-differences in communication style that are grating.

Well this is likely true --- but my good friend -- I can not be what she or anyone else want me to be. I am Steadygain plain and simple.

I would say Birchtree's personality and his communication style may have 'grated many' -- and obviously there has been a time or two where I grated him -- but I would go to bat for him anytime.

Thanks for your concern -- but seriously -- everything is cool.

[Handballer]

Seems like we have gotten way off topic.

[Steadygain]

Seems like we have gotten way off topic.

That's the ultimate beauty of this site ... :)

We float and move around like moths near a lightbulb ...;)

The topics frequently change and it's all a matter of keeping in time..

trying to flow with it...:cool::cool:

[nnuut]

Seems like we have gotten way off topic.
Yeah, I thought about changing the name of this thread to "Can GOD Stop Global Warming", but that's OK, good conversation is where it's at!!:D

[Steadygain]

Don't be thrilled, I wasn't asking for clarification for I know what the Word of the Lord states. However, u seem to twist it ever so slightly in all of your writtings.
U didn't put the statement in quotes indicating that u didn't write it and why I was asking for proof of those statements. I went back and now see it was budnipper that wrote it and that person can now respond.

Good Morning Valkyrie :)

After another night of prayer and a good night's sleep I am ready to start a 'NEW DAY' -- and hopefully a 'Better Day'.

First I want to thank you for your openess and honesty and for your courage in making known your feelings towards me.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=236306&postcount=198

There is a man by the name of Phil

I had animosity towards him and because of this my view of him was clouded in a NEGATIVE MANNER. As long as I saw him; or perceived him in a NEGATIVE LIGHT I was not able to seperate my 'Negative Feelings' and therefore essentially all of his posts -- reinforced my NEGATIVITY.

The LINK included shows how fully my NEGATIVITY took over as I interacted with him. I show you this to make a very clear point that as long as you view me in the same manner I use to view him it will be impossible for you to see me as I really am.

With Phil --- I poured my heart and life out to GOD and asked HIM to remove any shred of animosity or negativity I could have towards Phil and pleaded that GOD would grant me the opportunity to love him and accept him FULLY as he is -- and to take from me any kind of thought that he needed to change in any type of manner for me to LOVE him and ACCEPT him for who he is and as he is.

And GOD allowed this transformation to take place and as a result -- whatever 'ANIMOSITY' I had in association with him has been removed and now it is as though it never existed. No NEGATIVITY what so ever.

In the same manner it may be that your view of me is more based on how I use to be with him. The only way you can really see me and know me for who I am and as I am is by allowing the True and Living God to take your Negativity and whole heartedly love me and accept me as I am.

[Steadygain]

Valkyrie - I hope you saw the previous post and I will stop here as I am not trying to push you -- or embarrass you -- or put you 'on the spot' -- or do anything to make Negative Energy more prevalent.

THIS IS TAKEN FROM A PREVIOUS POST I MADE:

"I have no idea why -- honestly I really don't have a clue -- but somehow this MB is 'breaking me' on levels I've never thought possible.

Never dreamed by sharing about events that happened to me in childhood that God - in His Mercy and Glory - would allow me to realize that as bad as all these events were and as deeply as they damaged me - that He Alone could use this in a wonderful way. That through this process HE somehow made me more uniquely suitied to love and care for 'someone who needed this molding'. So now I realize that the years of deep sorrow and pain -- have actually worked for His Glory by making me more sensitive in ways that let me extend myself more deeply. Yet I can tell you in all honestly that it is solely because of this MB and all that has transpired that I no longer harbor any bitterness towards my brother. Here I would elaborate how GOD has allowed my interactions to sense Him; Know Him; and allow HIM to work in me. In fact it is just the opposite - I could never thank God enough for preparing me the way He did; by allowing others to put me through the events I had to endure. Not because they were 'good events' - but because despite the incredible 'horribleness' HE WAS ABLE to use it in a way that would make me even more wonderful.

This is what PHIL has done for me - in regards to Special Forces. Again here I need to Stress it is how my relationship to PHIL brought me to GOD. You see it is not something you can ever leave behind; it is something that becomes a part of everything you are. It consumes every shread of your existence and there is nothing beyond it; you breath it in like air and it filters throughout your being. It becomes the motivation and grounding of everything you do and if it's anything less then you not only fail yourself -- but all the more you will totally fail all the others in your Unit and fail the United States who calls on you for a Service that you alone can fulfill.

PHIL - brought me to realize that it makes absoluelty no difference what anyone thinks or believes. That my love for them and my acceptace for them 'as individuals' does not have to have any connection with them having an appreciation for me as 'A Soldier'. Here I came to find A GREATER FREEDOM ~~~ A FREEDOM that let's me delight in who and what I am ~~~ and a FREEDOM that allows me to delight in the 'Uniqueness' someone else has -- even if it does not conform with my grounding.

It's wonderful -- to honestly be able to LOVE and APPRECIATE someone who even unknowingly got under your skin. But with the FREEDOM I have been granted I can say in all sincereity that not only have I been granted a FREEDOM to love him and appreciate him ~~~ but I can read his expressions with 'respect and understanding' -- and that can only happen when all traces of 'Bad Energy' have disappeared."

Have a wonderful day my friend -- and please know that I have no 'negativity' with you either. I am free to love and enjoy!!

[burrocrat]

Well i don't mind tossing around politics but i generally avoid religion. In any event, since this thread is wide open, confession is good for the soul.

I often find that i think i'm funnier than i really am. I am selfish and think too highly of my personal perception, when all along the path ahead has been laid clearly before me, if only i care to look.

As for miracles, i am compelled to witness. How many times have you of good heart found yourself in a situation where your knowledge, skills, resources, or kindness were absolutely necessary, right now, no doubts? It doesn't matter how small or unlikely it may seem at the time, did you give without hesitation? Those moments are miraculous. You may never know what difference you made, what seed of hope you may have been called to plant.

Or did you laugh and point, and feel smug? I can't quote scripture, but i think the word is Samaritan. In as much as you have done it unto the least of these...

For those who give, every day is full of promise. For those who take, there will come a day.

Thank God i'm not the judge. I will be humbled i'm sure.

[alevin]

Burro, well-spoken indeed. thanks for chipping in.

[CapeChem]

God is God.....He has the ability to stop global warming if he wills.....Will he stop global warming? I guess we will have to wait and see.

David Banks: If there is any time in history that there needs to proof that "the message was true and that those delivering the message were authorized by God to do so" Then it is today.

[Viva_La_Migra]

God is God.....He has the ability to stop global warming if he wills.....Will he stop global warming? I guess we will have to wait and see.

He already has stopped global warming, which is why we are now discussing "Climate Change." :D

[alevin]

Really? Is that it? http://kai03.qwest.com/WindowsLive/Media/News/NewsDetail.aspx?cat=Science&id=D9BJ4S1O0@news.ap.org&client=gadget&qid=0



Statisticians say that in sizing up climate change, it's important to look at moving averages of about 10 years. They compare the average of 1999-2008 to the average of 2000-2009. In all data sets, 10-year moving averages have been higher in the last five years than in any previous years. We talk moving averages around here too, don't we? Same reason-day to day/week to week variability within longer time-frame trends that we can see on charts. ;)

"To talk about global cooling at the end of the hottest decade the planet has experienced in many thousands of years is ridiculous," said Ken Caldeira, a climate scientist at the Carnegie Institution at Stanford.


Of the 10 hottest years recorded by NOAA, eight have occurred since 2000, and after this year it will be nine because this year is on track to be the sixth-warmest on record.

The current El Nino is forecast to get stronger, probably pushing global temperatures even higher next year, scientists say. NASA climate scientist Gavin Schmidt predicts 2010 may break a record, so a cooling trend "will be never talked about again."
The recent Internet chatter about cooling led NOAA's climate data center to re-examine its temperature data. It found no cooling trend.

"The last 10 years are the warmest 10-year period of the modern record," said NOAA climate monitoring chief Deke Arndt. "Even if you analyze the trend during that 10 years, the trend is actually positive, which means warming."

The AP sent expert statisticians NOAA's year-to-year ground temperature changes over 130 years and the 30 years of satellite-measured temperatures preferred by skeptics and gathered by scientists at the University of Alabama in Huntsville.

Statisticians who analyzed the data found a distinct decades-long upward trend in the numbers, but could not find a significant drop in the past 10 years in either data set. The ups and downs during the last decade repeat random variability in data as far back as 1880.
The case that the Earth might be cooling partly stems from recent weather. Last year was cooler than previous years. It's been a while since the super-hot years of 1998 and 2005. So is this a longer climate trend or just weather's normal ups and downs?

In a blind test, the AP gave temperature data to four independent statisticians and asked them to look for trends, without telling them what the numbers represented. The experts found no true temperature declines over time.

"If you look at the data and sort of cherry-pick a micro-trend within a bigger trend, that technique is particularly suspect," said John Grego, a professor of statistics at the University of South Carolina.
Apart from the conflicting data analyses is the eyebrow-raising new book title from Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, "Super Freakonomics: Global Cooling, Patriotic Prostitutes and Why Suicide Bombers Should Buy Life Insurance. Leavitt (the author) "said the line was just an attempt to note the irony of a cool couple of years (hello-there's still natural variability within a statistical trend-if there wasn't, we wouldn't need statistics to figure out if there really is high probability a trend is happening). Levitt said he did not do any statistical analysis of temperatures, but "eyeballed" the numbers and noticed 2005 was hotter than the last couple of years. Levitt said the "cooling" reference in the book title refers more to ideas about trying to cool the Earth artificially (iow, he wasn't trying to debunk global warming at all).

[Buster]

Speaking of suicide bombers...

One side of my family that wasn't very brave, we had a great uncle that was a Japanese pilot in WWII.....He flew 123 Kamikaze missions.

[Frixxxx]

He flew 123 Kamikaze missions.
Buster, Can you finish this one without saying the words: can't, find, or target?:nuts:

[Viva_La_Migra]

Really? Is that it? http://kai03.qwest.com/WindowsLive/Media/News/NewsDetail.aspx?cat=Science&id=D9BJ4S1O0@news.ap.org&client=gadget&qid=0
"To talk about global cooling at the end of the hottest decade the planet has experienced in many thousands of years is ridiculous," said Ken Caldeira, a climate scientist at the Carnegie Institution at Stanford.

Here's another opinion (http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html).

[alevin]

"To talk about global cooling at the end of the hottest decade the planet has experienced in many thousands of years is ridiculous," said Ken Caldeira, a climate scientist at the Carnegie Institution at Stanford.

Here's another opinion (http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html).

VLM, you're absolutely right, I shouldn't have included the "opinion" and just stuck to the evidence and let people decide for themselves. I've tried to stay away from this thread because people have strong opinions, and are not overly enthused about new information that might suggest different conclusions than they want to believe.

Well, here's some more evidence that comes from vegetation at a continental scale. Tree species are now growing 200 miles north of where they were ever before able to grow before (take a look at the hardiness zone map linked below). 700-year old high elevation trees are dying from bugs that are surviving winters at those elevations they never could survive in large numbers before-as witnessed by 700-year old trees dying that have never before been bombarded by mass attacks of the tiny little buggers (pun intended).


Reliable data on the extent of previous mountain pine beetle outbreaks are difficult to come by, but current outbreaks in the whitebark pine zone "seem to be broader" than outbreaks in past decades, says Ward McCaughey, who studies whitebark pine communities as a research forester for the Forest Service. "In the 1980s, it hit very intensively in isolated areas," he says. "Now, we’re seeing outbreaks across the spectrum."

Diana Six, a University of Montana entomologist who studies whitebark pine in Idaho, Montana, and Yellowstone National Park, says beetles at all of her 12 study sites have adopted a one-year life cycle. What’s more, she says, outbreaks now move even faster at high elevations than in the beetles’ more familiar lodgepole pine territory. In the past, beetle outbreaks in whitebark were often helped along by spillover from the lodgepole zone, but that assistance is no longer necessary. "Instead of moving up from lodgepole pine, mountain pine beetles are starting in whitebark pine, and building up huge populations," she says. "They’re producing four to seven times more brood in whitebark than they do in lodgepole."

While lodgepole forests only need a few human generations to recover from similar outbreaks,whitebark pines aren’t designed for quick action. The trees mature slowly, and can live for centuries. For Logan, long acquainted with whitebark pines through decades of research and backcountry ski trips, these newest outbreaks have a tragic aspect.

"When I see outbreaks intensify in the lodgepole pine, it’s an interesting ecological event," says Logan. "When I see a 700-year-old whitebark pine go down, I have a completely different reaction. It breaks my heart."

Overall temperatures in the Rockies — and around the world — are rising dramatically. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports that global mean surface temperature increased by 0.6 degrees Celsius (about 1 degree Fahrenheit) over the 20th century. In the Western Hemisphere, the warming was greater than in any other century for the last 1,000 years, and the 1990s were the warmest decade of the entire millennium.

Of course, Logan and his colleagues can’t say whether the warmer temperatures we’ve been experiencing result from our affection for fossil fuels. That’s not their job. But other respected researchers say the connection is difficult to deny. The IPCC stated in its 2001 assessment that the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased by about 30 percent in the past 250 years, and that the current rate of increase is unprecedented in the last 20,000 years.
http://www.hcn.org/issues/278/14853


and more evidence:
http://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

and here's the "variability with trend" chart from this morning's article. Try to mentally lay a 10-year moving average line on it. The statisticians that did the analysis in the morning article did not know what data they were analyzing. any other group of statisticians running a 10-year moving average on the data would come up with the same answer regarding probability, especially if they didn't know what the data represented. That's the beauty of statistical formulas, in math, 1+1=2.
http://kai03.qwest.com/WindowsLive/Media/News/NewsDetail.aspx?cat=Science&id=D9BJ4S1O0@news.ap.org&client=gadget&qid=0

http://gadgets.qlive.qwest.com/qlivecache/images/news/0GLOBAL_TEMPERATURE.sff.jpg

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'll go away and leave the skeptics alone with new information now. Ignore it or consider it, up to you.

[Buster]

WOW! this thread has come full circle..

The IPCC (The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change = QUACKS!!) stated in its 2001 assessment that the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased by about 30 percent in the past 250 years, and that the current rate of increase is unprecedented in the last 20,000 years.At face value this looks horrific, but that's how these environmental wackos want it to look...But, "carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased by about 30 percent in the past 250 years, and that the current rate of increase is unprecedented in the last 20,000 years" Really?!?...In the last 20,000 years???!??..How many cavemen were there that had meteorological weather stations in their caves back then?http://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/will-as-caveman.jpg

Seriously?..This is funny :laugh:

Honestly..I'm more worried about Dec 21, 2012 than anything else..and it makes more sense..
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/armyyouhave/cartoon-weatherman.gif

This is just my opinion, and not intended to raise the ire or insult the lovely messenger.http://www.hummeraddicts.com/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/kiss.gif

[alevin]

Okey dokey, no ire here. bet you didn't know they can trace human genetic relationships back to common human ancestors 50,000 years these days either. from cells taken from people living today living on opposite sides of the planet. It's called rates of change in markers, kind of like how long it takes for spent nuclear material or certain herbicides to break down.

[Viva_La_Migra]

VLM, you're absolutely right, I shouldn't have included the "opinion" and just stuck to the evidence and let people decide for themselves. I've tried to stay away from this thread because people have strong opinions, and are not overly enthused about new information that might suggest different conclusions than they want to believe.

Well, here's some more evidence that comes from vegetation at a continental scale. Tree species are now growing 200 miles north of where they were ever before able to grow before (take a look at the hardiness zone map linked below). 700-year old high elevation trees are dying from bugs that are surviving winters at those elevations they never could survive in large numbers before-as witnessed by 700-year old trees dying that have never before been bombarded by mass attacks of the tiny little buggers (pun intended).


http://www.hcn.org/issues/278/14853


and more evidence:
http://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

and here's the "variability with trend" chart from this morning's article. Try to mentally lay a 10-year moving average line on it. The statisticians that did the analysis in the morning article did not know what data they were analyzing. any other group of statisticians running a 10-year moving average on the data would come up with the same answer regarding probability, especially if they didn't know what the data represented. That's the beauty of statistical formulas, in math, 1+1=2.
http://kai03.qwest.com/WindowsLive/Media/News/NewsDetail.aspx?cat=Science&id=D9BJ4S1O0@news.ap.org&client=gadget&qid=0

http://gadgets.qlive.qwest.com/qlivecache/images/news/0GLOBAL_TEMPERATURE.sff.jpg

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'll go away and leave the skeptics alone with new information now. Ignore it or consider it, up to you.
The "evidence" on both sides amounts to opinions, because we have no way of confirming the actual temperature of the earth since it's creation. The link I provided was fairly well researched and cited numerous references. I'm surprised that you so readily dismiss it.

I don't dismiss the evidence you presented, but I look at the trend a little differently. We know so little about our planet and it's cycles that I think we can make only a few definitive statements about man's impact on the earth's temperatures. I don't dismiss that man is contributing to rising CO2 levels, I just think there are natural sources of CO2 that are adding more, like volcanic activity. The warming of our oceans MAY be caused by lava flows and volcanic activity at or near the tectonic plates. Rivers of magma flowing just below the earth's crust could heat up specific spots in the crust, warming up the oceans and melting the ice caps.

My point is, Global Warming has been happening for thousands, if not millions of years, since the ice age. If you think about it like saving in an interest bearing account, you have the money that you start out with and you earn interest on that money. Through the miracle of compounding interest, your money grows exponentially. I believe the same thing is happening to our climate. Since the coldest part of the ice age the earth has been warming. Between the heat from the sun and the earth's own sources of heat, the glaciers have been melting. It likely started out slowly, but began to warm faster as time went on.

We may be nearing the hottest part of the earth's climate cycle, which may destroy most lifeforms on the planet. We know it has happened before with the dinosaurs. It could easily happen to us. If we are to truly survive, we must find ways to adjust to the changes, rather than attempt to stop this moving freight train. My concern is fresh water and all the lifeforms that need it to survive. We can't hope to reduce CO2 in the air if we don't have plants that take in CO2 and expel oxygen for us to breathe. Most plants, except salt water varieties, need fresh water. We need to preserve what fresh water we can and desalinate ocean water as it becomes necessary, in my most humble opinion.

The climate is changing. The question is how much of that is caused by man. I don't believe we are anywhere close to being the largest cause of climate change.

[budnipper1]

The "evidence" on both sides amounts to opinions, because we have no way of confirming the actual temperature of the earth since it's creation. The link I provided was fairly well researched and cited numerous references. I'm surprised that you so readily dismiss it.

I don't dismiss the evidence you presented, but I look at the trend a little differently. We know so little about our planet and it's cycles that I think we can make only a few definitive statements about man's impact on the earth's temperatures. I don't dismiss that man is contributing to rising CO2 levels, I just think there are natural sources of CO2 that are adding more, like volcanic activity. The warming of our oceans MAY be caused by lava flows and volcanic activity at or near the tectonic plates. Rivers of magma flowing just below the earth's crust could heat up specific spots in the crust, warming up the oceans and melting the ice caps.

My point is, Global Warming has been happening for thousands, if not millions of years, since the ice age. If you think about it like saving in an interest bearing account, you have the money that you start out with and you earn interest on that money. Through the miracle of compounding interest, your money grows exponentially. I believe the same thing is happening to our climate. Since the coldest part of the ice age the earth has been warming. Between the heat from the sun and the earth's own sources of heat, the glaciers have been melting. It likely started out slowly, but began to warm faster as time went on.

We may be nearing the hottest part of the earth's climate cycle, which may destroy most lifeforms on the planet. We know it has happened before with the dinosaurs. It could easily happen to us. If we are to truly survive, we must find ways to adjust to the changes, rather than attempt to stop this moving freight train. My concern is fresh water and all the lifeforms that need it to survive. We can't hope to reduce CO2 in the air if we don't have plants that take in CO2 and expel oxygen for us to breathe. Most plants, except salt water varieties, need fresh water. We need to preserve what fresh water we can and desalinate ocean water as it becomes necessary, in my most humble opinion.

The climate is changing. The question is how much of that is caused by man. I don't believe we are anywhere close to being the largest cause of climate change.

I agree, Viva La Migra, and I don't feel the least bit "humble" about it either. :cheesy:

About that 'Warming Trend' chart: What I see on that graph is a ONE DEGREE Fahrenheit variation during the time period 1980 - 2009,(29 years) compared to the "World's Average temperature" for approximately 100 years, 1901 thru 2000, . ONE STINKING DEGREE! SO WHAT! It's the weather, it changes all the time...always has, always will. So far, nothing I have ever read or heard has given me any reason to worry that we are all doomed due to global warming or global cooling. It's all a bunch of hype from alarmists like Gore who are just getting richer by writing books and giving speeches on the subject. The one and only thing that we could possibly do to cause a significant change of the earth's climate is to blow the whole planet up with nuclear bombs, or the equivalent of such. And, even THAT change would most likely be only temporary, since the earth has withstood many violent and extreme changes before. It is a scientific fact that all the previous extreme climate changes(cycles) occurred hundreds and THOUSANDS of years before man ever invented all the things now being blamed as the "cause" of the earth's temperature variations. That's my opinion/story and I'm stickin' to it! :D

7113

[alevin]

Okay guys, settle down. I never said there wasn't a natural ultra long cycle or that natural events contribute-like volcanoes. what I was trying to point out was that there is empirical and statistical evidence in our lifetime that a longterm warming trend is in place, even if there are very short-term cooling trends within the longerterm trend. And that 1 degree difference seems very small to us, but in the natural world it has huge implications-like chain-reaction dominoes in slow motion.

Water supply for one thing. The majority of communities in the west are hugely dependent on mountain snowpack for water supply-directly or indirectly. We are seeing smaller winter snowpacks and earlier spring runoff. Mountain snow-fed rivers get hot enough to kill fish in the first week of June -I've seen it.

There are people talking about mass reservoir storage projects in our region-which I personally detest the thought of ecologically as well as fiscally, but people are starting to think about what its going to take to store winter runoff that is no longer being stored for slow release in the form of snow, but is instead running downstream faster in winter and earlier in the spring with lower hotter summer flows. The 30s were the longest extended drought around here-major lakes went dry. that hasn't happened again yet, but its happened in living memory-but the population base was much smaller then too, and so was the demand on the water that remained available at the time.

Population is still growing-water supply is changing. One of the reasons it appears the Cliff Dwellers in the southwest died out or mass migrated-was due to drought that lasted longer than they could stay. There's a lot more population there now. California is struggling for adequate water supply right now.

Foresters are talking about which tree species are most flexible genetically in terms of geographic spread and elevational tolerance and water stress from insufficient water-they will be needed to replace species that can't handle the changes that are occurring. There are private timber companies that are already changing the mix of species they are planting on their lands to prepare for longterm change-since trees are a longterm investment.

The point is we're being impacted continentally and regionally by the "small" change that has already occurred, if we don't look ahead at possible future impacts through modelling-we will be completely unprepared. I don't know that cap-and-trade is the answer, I actually don't think it is, but if we hide our heads under the covers in denial, we certainly won't come up with useful answers in a timely manner-adaptation to change or prevention or a mixture of both.

[Valkyrie]

http://planetmoron.typepad.com/planet_moron/global_warming/

[Buster]

NICE!!!!

My kind of global warming...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/supercardio.jpg

[Valkyrie]

http://planetmoron.typepad.com/planet_moron/global_warming/ (http://planetmoron.typepad.com/planet_moron/global_warming/)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/25/jstor_climate_report_translation/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/25/jstor_climate_report_translation/)
read these first
http://prophecyarchive.com/ray/barr-family.com/godsword/old.htm (http://prophecyarchive.com/ray/barr-family.com/godsword/old.htm)
http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/sci-ev/sci_vs_ev_4.htm (http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/sci-ev/sci_vs_ev_4.htm)
http://creation.com/the-lost-squadron (http://creation.com/the-lost-squadron)

and then this
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/10/current-climate-change-not-part-of-planets-natural-cycle-new-evidence-unlike-any-seen-during-previou.html (http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/10/current-climate-change-not-part-of-planets-natural-cycle-new-evidence-unlike-any-seen-during-previou.html) see the assumptions that are made. the point being that there are a lot of assumptions about age and time on the earth and are using this to prove climate change.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html) what!? mars has global warming also. we need to pass laws to stop the martians also. Al Gore get them!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=mars+heating+up&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=mars+heating+up&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10)

anybody who really wants to know should read this book The greening

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/greening.shtml (http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/greening.shtml)

[Viva_La_Migra]

NICE!!!!

My kind of global warming...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2007/supercardio.jpg
Glad you're in to heart healthy exercise Buster! :D

[Buster]

This is for Sugar...



Breakfast at McDonald's



I am a very friendly person and always smile at everyone and say hello.


I went out to McDonald's one crisp March morning.

I was standing in line, waiting to be served, when all of a sudden everyone around me began to back away.

I did not move an inch... an overwhelming feeling of panic welled up inside of me as I turned to see why they had all moved away.


As I turned around I smelled a horrible 'dirty body' smell, and there standing behind me were two poor homeless men..


As I looked down at the short gentleman, close to me, he was 'smiling'


His beautiful sky blue eyes were full of God's Light as he searched for acceptance.

He said, 'Good day' as he counted the few coins he had been clutching.

The second man fumbled with his hands as he stood behind his friend. I realized the second man was mentally challenged and the blue-eyed gentleman was his salvation.

I held my tears as I stood there with them.

The young lady at the counter asked him what they wanted..

He said, 'Coffee is all Miss' because that was all they could afford... (If they wanted to sit in the restaurant and warm up, they had to buy something. He just wanted to be warm).

Then I really felt it - the compulsion was so great I almost reached out and embraced the little man with the blue eyes..

That is when I noticed all eyes in the
restaurant were set on me, judging
my every action.


I smiled and asked the young lady behind the counter to give me two more breakfast meals on a separate tray.

I then walked around the corner to the table that the men had chosen as a resting spot.. I put the tray on the table and laid my hand on the blue-eyed gentleman's cold hand.

He looked up at me, with tears in his eyes, and said, 'Thank you.'

I leaned over, began to pat his hand and said, 'I did not do this for you. God is here working through me to give you hope.'

I started to cry as I walked away...





I am not church goer, but I am a believer.

[burrocrat]

true that.

[Bullitt]

What Happened To Global Warming?

The crash of the Baby Boomers' (The Greatest Generation in the World) 401K's put GW on the back burner for a while because that's long term. Short term, they just want their money back so they can retire to their place on the ocean and only have to worry about waking up and making coffee for their wife every day.

The fact that any human actually thinks that they can project what's going to happen into the future with the use of models just shows the audacity public figures have in their beliefs. Models once projected houses to go to the sky and the alleged smartest minds on earth modeled their models off the idea of those houses appreciating forever. We've been on this planet for a blink of an eye in a lifetime, yet our leaders grand stand with computer based models of 'Hockey Stick Graphs' that tell us we're frogs sitting in a pot of water that continues to increase in temp. I wouldn't consider any temperature readings before 1950 to be accurate anyway. I mean, how accurate were temperature gauges in 1880? Besides, is 100 years really a fair sample of temperature readings?

[Buster]

Good write Bullitt..;)

I've been watching a series on TV called: 'The making of Planet Earth'..My conclusion is that we humans are SO insignificant to the grander scheme of things on this planet, it is are hardly worth mentioning we exist..:D

[nnuut]

Global warming IS SCARY, but is being used as a ploy to promote another agenda. That is disappointing and much more frightening than the slow progression of Global Warming. We need REAL LEADERS not these LIARS!:nuts: 7202

[coolhand]

What Happened To Global Warming?

The crash of the Baby Boomers' (The Greatest Generation in the World) 401K's put GW on the back burner for a while because that's long term. Short term, they just want their money back so they can retire to their place on the ocean and only have to worry about waking up and making coffee for their wife every day.

The fact that any human actually thinks that they can project what's going to happen into the future with the use of models just shows the audacity public figures have in their beliefs. Models once projected houses to go to the sky and the alleged smartest minds on earth modeled their models off the idea of those houses appreciating forever. We've been on this planet for a blink of an eye in a lifetime, yet our leaders grand stand with computer based models of 'Hockey Stick Graphs' that tell us we're frogs sitting in a pot of water that continues to increase in temp. I wouldn't consider any temperature readings before 1950 to be accurate anyway. I mean, how accurate were temperature gauges in 1880? Besides, is 100 years really a fair sample of temperature readings?

Here's a nice write-up on Al Gore...;)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527572868084330.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

[Buster]

Here's a nice write-up on Al Gore...;)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527572868084330.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion
I liked this part...:D


For a while the media could patch over the scientific shortfall by reporting evidence of warming as if it were evidence of what causes warming. Inconveniently, however, just as temperature-measuring has become more standardized and disciplined and less reliant on flaky records from the past (massaged to the Nth degree), the warming trend seems to have faded from the recent record.

[CountryBoy]

I enjoyed both Bullitt's and CH's articles. Algore is just scamming us, while he makes major bucks on his Chicken Little routine. :D

[nnuut]

Global warming IS SCARY, but is being used as a ploy to promote another agenda. That is disappointing and much more frightening than the slow progression of Global Warming. We need REAL LEADERS not these LIARS!:nuts: 7202
BOY!! I've got to cool it, getting emotional out of frustration.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

UUUUMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuZU81nhBBY
I feel better already.:toung: 7208

[ezmoney]

BOY!! I've got to cool it, getting emotional out of frustration.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

UUUUMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuZU81nhBBY
I feel better already.:toung: 7208


Its about padding the pockets of these people at the expense of your hard earned money to buy or change something that they the Government and their Global Warming Cronies have forced up us once again. You have to spend your hard earned money so they can profit from it. Government Control at its best.

[nnuut]

XACTLY!!:cool:

[nnuut]

This is interesting: :D

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Kate Ravilious
for National Geographic News (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/)

February 28, 2007

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory. Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. (Get an overview: "Global Warming Fast Facts" (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_warming.html).)
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/images/thumbs/070228-mars-warming_170.jpg (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/55741367.html)

Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.
In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.
Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.
"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.
Solar Cycles [more]
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

[Buster]

This is interesting: :D

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Kate Ravilious
for National Geographic News (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/)

February 28, 2007

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced[more]



No Way!!!...Imagine that!!:rolleyes:

[nnuut]

Amazing!!:cool: 7215

[grandma]

Does anyone know anything about what is in the italized article below, about the Copenhagen Climate Treaty meeting coming up next month? Does the treaty actually allow governance by - the UN, I suppose? Didn't a similar thing get killed when the UN wanted our troopers stationed on foreign soil to be responsible to them, not the US Commander in Chief? I know I have read in the past that the countries owning U.S. soil wanted governship of it. I don't recall how that got shut out.

I also question why any leader of a country would give up that leadership unless he has in his hand signed & notarized contracts guaranteeing him of a similar place in the the `sold to' government...

The Copenhagen Climate Treaty meeting will strip America of its Sovereignty, and subject us to laws, rules and huge taxes levied by a one-world, leftist, elitist governing body that wants to steal America's wealth to punish us for our success as a nation. Worst of all, Americans will NOT have the power to vote these elitists out of office, impeach them, or hold them accountable in any way whatsoever.
The Copenhagen Treaty will create a Global Governing body that will dictate to laws and levy harsh punitive taxes on America.

TYIA -:) grandma

[Steadygain]

Does the treaty actually allow governance by - the UN, I suppose?
No the USA (and China for that matter) would totally ignore them.

Didn't a similar thing get killed when the UN wanted our troopers stationed on foreign soil to be responsible to them, not the US Commander in Chief?
They have indeed gained a lot more power than you realize.

I also question why any leader of a country would give up that leadership
The 'leadership' ability can be markedly limited by other powers. It may be simply a lifting of the veil and the masses simply have no idea what has been going on.

For instance -- the recent decline in the US Dollar -- is probably a reflection of what happened under the Bush Administration but somehow 'they' were able to hide it.

The Copenhagen Climate Treaty meeting will strip America of its Sovereignty, and subject us to laws, rules and huge taxes levied by a one-world, leftist, elitist governing body that wants to steal America's wealth to punish us for our success as a nation.
Or are they in reality wanting to punish us because our success was wholy due to 'their hardships' and 'failures'. Are they in fact justisified in wanting to turn things around so the USA does not continue to have the Hold and Control it has?

Who knows Grandma -- and I'm not saying this to argue with you or in any manner to attack you. I'd say this was written wholly from an American Perspective and viewed as 'Anti-American'.

Worst of all, Americans will NOT have the power to vote these elitists out of office, impeach them, or hold them accountable in any way whatsoever.
But that is no different from the Czars.... and others already in power and control. When something like this 'is enacted' it has to be on a level that clearly shows even Congress and the President are powerless -- otherwise it'd be a total waste of time.

The Copenhagen Treaty will create a Global Governing body that will dictate to laws and levy harsh punitive taxes on America.

TYIA -:) grandma

I think it's wonderful that some are willing to find these things and bring them to light. At the very worst -- at least it can in some manner help prepare us for what's ahead.

Treaties -- by and large are totally meaningless from my perspective and nothing demonstates that better than the USA with the Native Americans. Any country that holds significant power and domination --- will do whatever it feels like doing and the Treaty is essentially there to show 'We respect the input and outlook of others blah blah blah......

Who knows -- maybe some real changes are underway ??


OK -- I'm off my soapbox

[CountryBoy]

Does anyone know anything about what is in the italized article below, about the Copenhagen Climate Treaty meeting coming up next month? Does the treaty actually allow governance by - the UN, I suppose? Didn't a similar thing get killed when the UN wanted our troopers stationed on foreign soil to be responsible to them, not the US Commander in Chief? I know I have read in the past that the countries owning U.S. soil wanted governship of it. I don't recall how that got shut out.

I also question why any leader of a country would give up that leadership unless he has in his hand signed & notarized contracts guaranteeing him of a similar place in the the `sold to' government...

The Copenhagen Climate Treaty meeting will strip America of its Sovereignty, and subject us to laws, rules and huge taxes levied by a one-world, leftist, elitist governing body that wants to steal America's wealth to punish us for our success as a nation. Worst of all, Americans will NOT have the power to vote these elitists out of office, impeach them, or hold them accountable in any way whatsoever.
The Copenhagen Treaty will create a Global Governing body that will dictate to laws and levy harsh punitive taxes on America.

TYIA -:) grandma

That's my understanding from several sources and I have yet seen any reputible source refute that comment, although I believe our Congress would have to ratify any agreement, but I sure don't like those odds, with the Congress we have now and if Congress doesn't have to ratify any treaty, then we're screwed. I alluded to this concern about a mont ago in 2 different posts and got no rebuttal from the usual suspects. So yeah, I'm worried that an attempt will be made to cede US sovereignty.

But like Steady said and I've read where China, Russia and India will ignore the treaty, because, in their words, it will crush their economy (paraphrased).

If somehow we agreed to this treaty, then our current administration will have finished the destruction of our Constitution. Copenhagen did give out an award just recently, can you say quid pro quo? :worried:

CB

[Steadygain]

That's my understanding from several sources and I have yet seen any reputible source refute that comment, although I believe our Congress would have to ratify any agreement, but I sure don't like those odds, with the Congress we have now and if Congress doesn't have to ratify any treaty, then we're screwed. I alluded to this concern about a mont ago in 2 different posts and got no rebuttal from the usual suspects. So yeah, I'm worried that an attempt will be made to cede US sovereignty.

But like Steady said and I've read where China, Russia and India will ignore the treaty, because, in their words, it will crush their economy (paraphrased).

If somehow we agreed to this treaty, then our current administration will have finished the destruction of our Constitution. Copenhagen did give out an award just recently, can you say quid pro quo? :worried:

CB

Very well put CB

I'd simply say in regards to the 'destruction of our Constitution' - that the resemblence of safety and security by the general population is what grounds us into thinking 'The Constitution' has not already been eroded.

I honestly don't know where we really are today CB -- and for me that's the hardest part -- because I don't know how Bad (or Good) things really are.

[CountryBoy]

Very well put CB

I'd simply say in regards to the 'destruction of our Constitution' - that the resemblence of safety and security by the general population is what grounds us into thinking 'The Constitution' has not already been eroded.

I honestly don't know where we really are today CB -- and for me that's the hardest part -- because I don't know how Bad (or Good) things really are.

Our safety and security took a hit at Fort Hood. If the terrorist have no qualms about attacking our military base, then they'llhave no qualms hitting even softer targets. That's what cowards do. If the soldiers had been armed, that terrorist would've never tried what he did and if he did try, he'd been dropped ASAP. No I don't feel safer.

[Steadygain]

Our safety and security took a hit at Fort Hood.
I hear what you're saying but I see it totally different.

If the terrorist have no qualms about attacking our military base,
See I don't see him as a 'Terrorist'

I see him as a GD piece of s*** - a spineless total piece of garbage.

I see him as someone who's willing to 'play the role' -- until his committment is called upon and he is to back what he supposely represents.

He was being called to duty - CB - and that's what prompted him to do the stuff he did.

He was a gainfully employed 'psychiatrist' actively working with the Soldiers in Mental Health. He (like me) saw first hand what many Soldiers have to deal with... and apparently had no qualms with taking the cushion job of being 'disconnected'

BUT - apparently he was sworn in -- and when called to serve 'His Country' - he turned against it.

then they'llhave no qualms hitting even softer targets.
I think it's wrong to blindly say the guy was a 'terrorist' because of his religion or whatever -- I think my description is more accurate and that made him dangerous and totally 'unworthy'

That's what cowards do.
I'd fix him up -- get him ready for duty and send him out to the front. He either fights for 'freedom' - his and ours -- or he gets killed.

If the soldiers had been armed, that terrorist would've never tried what he did and if he did try, he'd been dropped ASAP. No I don't feel safer.
Well I'd be willing to let the Drills be armed; but not the general guys out there in training. On the whole they aren't made like us CB - it's a different breed out there...:(:mad:

[grandma]

Our safety and security took a hit at Fort Hood. If the terrorist have no qualms about attacking our military base, then they'llhave no qualms hitting even softer targets. That's what cowards do. If the soldiers had been armed, that terrorist would've never tried what he did and if he did try, he'd been dropped ASAP. No I don't feel safer.
The national news made little mention of the recent killing of one, & wounding of another, trooper while they were standing in front of the recuriting office in Little Rock. They & the Adminstration folks were hung up on being sure an extensive & exhaustive investigation was being conducted into the slaying of George Tiller, the abortionist. The Leader of the House was quite emphatic about that ! This investigation was to ferret out pro-life organization accomplices, completely ignoring the fact that pro-life means just that..pro-life organizations are pro-life, totally without discrimination, extended sympathies for the family, & disdain for the perpitrator.
The powers that be & the media also did, and apparently continue to, ignore the fact that the Little Rock killer was a Muslim, that he had his car & home well stocked with weaponry, and stated he was making the rounds to get as many U.S. Service uniforms as he could. ...because there hasn't been much national news about what type of investigation was/is being conducted there.
His statement was that he had been ill-treated when in Jordan. I think the investigation showed that his blame-placing was all falsehoods. But who besides Arkansawyers & other recruiting offices know that?
Perhaps had he shot up the whole recruiting office, it might have garnered sympathy from the Elite, & perhaps a little red flag that there ARE Muslims in this country who certainly DO follow the instructions of their Holy Cleric in Iran... but numbers are what count, eh?

[Steadygain]

but numbers are what count, eh?

Have been swamped .... so my mind is messed up and I have to be reading something that's not there


Please ignore what I said before - - PEACE

[CountryBoy]

Well I'd be willing to let the Drills be armed; but not the general guys out there in training. On the whole they aren't made like us CB - it's a different breed out there...:(:mad:

Steady,

I used terrorist, not for religion purposes, but because I didn't want to be banned. :laugh: He's just evil incarnate. The heck with all that other stuff. If it were up to me, since there were plenty of witness's, just take him out back and put one in his head, like the mad dog that he is. Plain and simple, the problem about what to do with him is solved. If more people would've been armed, he'd be dead now.

Maybe not the general guys, but if we can't trust officers to at least have a sidearm on them, then something is wrong and for that matter maybe the sgts. could also carry, because I wonder if some of these officers have the nads to pull the trigger. But no one on a military base is allowed to carry, except I suppose the guard posts, is just unbelievable. The base is pretty much a criminal protection zone, since the BG's will be the only ones carrying. The gov't are just making them victims in waiting. :mad:

Let our troops do the job they are trained to do and get the pols otta the way. This is a fight we're in and not a boxing match, with rules. Enough of this rant, we both pretty much agree he's scum.

CB

[nnuut]

Copenhagen should be between the cheek and gum, not something that will force us to sponsor third world Countries fight against Global Warming. I read about the upcoming meeting and what it can mean to the people of the USA. Using the guise of Climate Change they hope to achieve far more.What they say it is not what it is, it's all part of a bigger plan.:cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/

[CountryBoy]

The national news made little mention of the recent killing of one, & wounding of another, trooper while they were standing in front of the recuriting office in Little Rock. They & the Adminstration folks were hung up on being sure an extensive & exhaustive investigation was being conducted into the slaying of George Tiller, the abortionist. The Leader of the House was quite emphatic about that ! This investigation was to ferret out pro-life organization accomplices, completely ignoring the fact that pro-life means just that..pro-life organizations are pro-life, totally without discrimination, extended sympathies for the family, & disdain for the perpitrator.
The powers that be & the media also did, and apparently continue to, ignore the fact that the Little Rock killer was a Muslim, that he had his car & home well stocked with weaponry, and stated he was making the rounds to get as many U.S. Service uniforms as he could. ...because there hasn't been much national news about what type of investigation was/is being conducted there.
His statement was that he had been ill-treated when in Jordan. I think the investigation showed that his blame-placing was all falsehoods. But who besides Arkansawyers & other recruiting offices know that?
Perhaps had he shot up the whole recruiting office, it might have garnered sympathy from the Elite, & perhaps a little red flag that there ARE Muslims in this country who certainly DO follow the instructions of their Holy Cleric in Iran... but numbers are what count, eh?

Yep Grandma,

I hadn't heard about the trooper, but it doesn't suprise me that 110% effort is being made on the pro abortionist. It's almost getting to the point that you do feel like a criminal if you're beliefs differ from the left and we gotta watch out about using the term Christmas.


It's all about numbers and left wing politics. We mustn't hurt anybodies feelings, especially those that hate America, after all Iran and the Chavez's and Castro types are big buds of the administration. The world is turning upside down, don't say anything bad that may hurt our enemies feelings, but be a law abiding citizen, that have been raised to have strong morals and principles, well you get called all kinds of names or attacked by people like Pelosi and even our own prez. People can only be pushed so far. :mad:

Allah akbar has now become a free pass to prefertional treatment by the gov't, but don't dare say In God We Trust. Well I'd better get off my soapbox.

Enjoy your evening. :D

CB

[Steadygain]

Steady,

I used terrorist, not for religion purposes, but because I didn't want to be banned. :laugh: He's just evil incarnate.

:embarrest: Thanks CB -- I should have known that but have been both incredibly busy and on top of that the media has me thinkn' everyone else is 'hypnotized' ....

The heck with all that other stuff. If it were up to me, since there were plenty of witness's, just take him out back and put one in his head, like the mad dog that he is. Plain and simple, the problem about what to do with him is solved.
I totally agree with that -- spare us the legal BS.

maybe the sgts. could also carry, They could and they would -- that's why I said Drills

Let our troops do the job they are trained to do and get the pols otta the way. This is a fight we're in and not a boxing match, with rules. Enough of this rant, we both pretty much agree he's scum.
:D:D

CB

Well as bizarre as this may sound ~~ I'd rather use our Tax dollars emptying out the Prisons and sending them over as Soldiers... and send just enough other guys to make sure they don't run or kill each other.

Well good night my friend

[Viva_La_Migra]

The national news made little mention of the recent killing of one, & wounding of another, trooper while they were standing in front of the recuriting office in Little Rock. They & the Adminstration folks were hung up on being sure an extensive & exhaustive investigation was being conducted into the slaying of George Tiller, the abortionist. The Leader of the House was quite emphatic about that ! This investigation was to ferret out pro-life organization accomplices, completely ignoring the fact that pro-life means just that..pro-life organizations are pro-life, totally without discrimination, extended sympathies for the family, & disdain for the perpitrator.
The powers that be & the media also did, and apparently continue to, ignore the fact that the Little Rock killer was a Muslim, that he had his car & home well stocked with weaponry, and stated he was making the rounds to get as many U.S. Service uniforms as he could. ...because there hasn't been much national news about what type of investigation was/is being conducted there.
His statement was that he had been ill-treated when in Jordan. I think the investigation showed that his blame-placing was all falsehoods. But who besides Arkansawyers & other recruiting offices know that?
Perhaps had he shot up the whole recruiting office, it might have garnered sympathy from the Elite, & perhaps a little red flag that there ARE Muslims in this country who certainly DO follow the instructions of their Holy Cleric in Iran... but numbers are what count, eh?
Both situations should have been investigated thoroughly and the perpretators prosecuted. What I find appalling is that the Dems blocked an effort to designate crimes committed against soldiers and veterans as hate crimes, yet a crime against a muslim COULD be designated a hate crime. I guess they want to reserve their right to spit on soldiers like they did after Vietnam.

[WorkFE]

and send just enough other guys to make sure they don't run or kill each other.

Run where

[grandma]

from Grassfire.org on Tuesday:
Following closely on the heels of ObamaCare, the Boxer-Kerry
Cap and Trade bill has been inconspicuously moving through
the Senate with a stealth goal to pass the bill before the
Copenhagen Summit this December!

During a heated debate last week Sen. Barbara Boxer, Chairwoman
of the Environment and Public Works committee refused to
release a full economic analysis of the bill, to which
Inhofe bristled, "I can only conclude that they don't want
the pubic to know how much money this thing is going to cost."
And cost it will...
Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) said of the coming legislation,
"This would be the largest tax increase in the history of
America."

Analysts believe the increased taxes and fees will cost the
average American household upwards of $1,600 to $3,000 or
more each and every year!

Making matters worse, scientists suggest Cap and Trade would
have no measureable benefit--except to the federal government.

... anticipate liberal lawmakers will aggressively push
this bill forward.
Once again absent in this debate is the voice of the American
people who can't shoulder the added financial burden Cap and
Trade will spawn.

[nnuut]

from Grassfire.org on Tuesday:
Following closely on the heels of ObamaCare, the Boxer-Kerry
Cap and Trade bill has been inconspicuously moving through
the Senate with a stealth goal to pass the bill before the
Copenhagen Summit this December!

During a heated debate last week Sen. Barbara Boxer, Chairwoman
of the Environment and Public Works committee refused to
release a full economic analysis of the bill, to which
Inhofe bristled, "I can only conclude that they don't want
the pubic to know how much money this thing is going to cost."
And cost it will...
Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) said of the coming legislation,
"This would be the largest tax increase in the history of
America."

Analysts believe the increased taxes and fees will cost the
average American household upwards of $1,600 to $3,000 or
more each and every year!

Making matters worse, scientists suggest Cap and Trade would
have no measureable benefit--except to the federal government.

... anticipate liberal lawmakers will aggressively push
this bill forward.
Once again absent in this debate is the voice of the American
people who can't shoulder the added financial burden Cap and
Trade will spawn.
We all know that Cap and Tax is the wrong thing to do at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons. So why is it so important to the Liberals to pass this tremendous Tax Bill, what is the real reason? Remember there will be no higher taxes for people that make less than $200,000 dollars a year, was that a sure thing or a maybe? Oh! could they want to control Green House Gasses, stop Global Warming, THAT's IT!! If they can Control Energy and Health Care then what's next on the list, it's way beyond me:cool:?

[burrocrat]

Bolivia: Lake Titicaca at dangerously low levels

8:32 am ET 11/13/2009 - Associated Press Online
Evaporation blamed on global warming has reduced Lake Titicaca, one of the world's highest navigable lakes, to its lowest level since 1949, authorities said Thursday.
Diminished rainfall and a rise in solar radiation have in the past four years led to critically low water levels that now threaten fish spawning areas and plant life, the Lake Titicaca Authority said in a statement.
Titicaca's waters have dropped 81 centimeters (2.65 feet) since April and flora and fauna are apt to suffer damage if they drop another 30 centimeters (one foot), the statement said.
Navy Capt. Jorge Ernesto Espinoza told ATB television that South America's largest lake is receding by 2 to 3 centimeters (about an inch) a week.
The lake, straddling Bolivia and Peru at 3,800 meters (12,493 feet) elevation, is an 8,400 square kilometer (3,240 square mile) oasis on an arid high plain an hour's drive from the Bolivian capital, La Paz.
The lake is fed by rainfall and melt water from glaciers, which scientists say are shrinking rapidly due to global warming and could disappear altogether by mid-century.
About 2.6 million people depend on the lake for their sustenance.
The Titicaca Authority says 95 percent of the lake's inflow is now evaporating.
One reason is that the area's rainy season has been reduced from six to three months, said Felix Trujillo, chief of Bolivia's National Meterological and Hydrological Service.
He said this year's rainy season is expected to begin in mid-November.
The drought has prompted water rationing in some Bolivian cities.
Environment Minister Rene Orellana said Bolivia needs $1 billion over the next seven years to build reservoirs that will guarantee an adequate water supply.

[nnuut]

Haggling over global warming

A deal to trade more nuclear power and offshore oil drilling for a cap on greenhouse gases may go nowhere, but don't rule out even bigger schemes.

By Steve Hargreaves (steve.hargreaves@turner.com), CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: November 13, 2009: 7:35 AM ET

Nukes up close (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0910/gallery.nuclear/index.html)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2009/news/0910/gallery.nuclear/images/launcher.jpg (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0910/gallery.nuclear/index.html)
South Texas could see the first new nuclear power plant built in the country in 30 years. Most locals love it, but nationwide some are questioning the so-called nuclear renaissance. View photos (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0910/gallery.nuclear/index.html)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The success of a congressional effort to push through stymied climate change legislation remains far from a sure thing.
Sens. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., have offered provisions to try to sway Republican lawmakers and business groups to support caps on greenhouse gasses.
The problem: The very incentives that might entice the bill's opponents, such as expanded nuclear energy and domestic oil drilling, are too much for many Democrats to stomach.
For example, the nuclear industry is looking for upwards of $100 billion in loan guarantees that would go toward building approximately 20 new plants. Long-term ambitions are even bigger. Some Republicans in Congress want up to 100 new nuke plants built over the next few decades.
But, at the same time, adding too many nuclear goodies hurts the legislation's chances.
"It would risk favoring nuclear over everything else," said Divya Reddy, an energy policy analyst at the Eurasia Group, a political risk consultancy. "The outlook for eventual passage is looking weaker and weaker."
That doesn't bode well for the Obama administration, which hoped to have a deal at least in the works before heading to Copenhagen next month to hammer out a global greenhouse gas treaty.
The return of nuclear power (http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/02/news/economy/nuclear_renaissance/index.htm) [more]
http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/13/news/economy/globalwarming_deal/index.htm

[Steadygain]

Steady,

I used terrorist, not for religion purposes, but because I didn't want to be banned.

CB

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=239503&postcount=141

Tom, and Moderators, I never really even thought about the possibilty of being banned and in retrospect I guess you could have at a minimum sent me a number of warnings over the years.

Anyway -- when I do get genuinely 'fired up' I appreciate being able to express myself as freely as I have. But CB is right and so I'll try to tone it down.

OK - you know a great deal of what I say is just rambling stuff but once in a blue moon I may actually come up with something.

Anyway -- after reflecting on this -- I sincerely appreciate the freedom you've allowed. THANK YOU !!

[Buster]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=239503&postcount=141

Tom, and Moderators, I never really even thought about the possibilty of being banned and in retrospect I guess you could have at a minimum sent me a number of warnings over the years.

Anyway -- when I do get genuinely 'fired up' I appreciate being able to express myself as freely as I have. But CB is right and so I'll try to tone it down.

OK - you know a great deal of what I say is just rambling stuff but once in a blue moon I may actually come up with something.

Anyway -- after reflecting on this -- I sincerely appreciate the freedom you've allowed. THANK YOU !!
I think you're more apt to come up with good stuff more often than that my brother..:D

Just so ya know..

A blue moon is a full moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_moon) that is not timed to the regular monthly pattern. Most years have twelve full moons which occur approximately monthly, but in addition to those twelve full lunar cycles, each calendar year contains an excess of roughly eleven days. The extra days accumulate, so that every two or three years (on average about every 2.7154 years), there is an extra full moon. The extra moon is called a "blue moon."
(Per Wiki)

[Buster]

What goes around, comes around...

I get to do a lecture this week on the EPA's stand on Global warming/Ozone depletion, as mandated by the Montreal Protocol...I know I will present the material without bias, but I also know my lips will be bleeding afterwards...:D:laugh:

Seriously..after doing a week's worth of research, I have learned some interesting stuff....Bottom line, if you are going to the South Pole, take plenty of sunblock with SPF1000 with you..:blink:

[alevin]

Here''s a review of a recent peer-reviewed pub for you Buster, came to my inbox today. Buy some chapstick, it'll help (maybe).
http://www.cbbulletin.com/365067.aspx

[Buster]

Here''s a review of a recent peer-reviewed pub for you Buster, came to my inbox today. Buy some chapstick, it'll help (maybe).
http://www.cbbulletin.com/365067.aspx


Thanks:)

[phil]

I'm all behind the nuclear power option. It's cheaper and cleaner than any other, and more cost-effective.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4095658.stm

Then again, I'm also for emissions caps. They go hand in hand.

[nnuut]

Half right is better than all wrong!!:laugh:
Do you really think Cap and Trade is a good idea?

[phil]

Yeah. In the long run, it is a good idea to go forward with it. A lot of other countries are far ahead in developing the technology to cut both oil and coal consumption.

Those wind farms, while not esthetic, do a really great job of cutting overall costs for electricity. Only one country, Sweden, has almost a completely clean electrical production means via hydro.

I remember going to the Irish coast down south and telling our guide that I thought that this was a great place to put some windmills. He looked mortified and told me that it would ruin the view.

I think they've started building them there now. There, and the North sea have tons of energy potential. Here, we have tons of sites, and a pretty good grid. It's a good start.

The other part of the equation is biofuels and synthetic fuels. Now, it's possible to make completely synthetic jet fuel.

I'm not completely behind coal to jet fuel, it's dirty, but it would definitely cut outlays to the Gulf.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2009/02/02/Air-Force-to-test-synthetic-jet-fuel/UPI-78861233599122/

Also Sasol out of S. Africa.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/04/sasol-100-ctl-s.html

[Show-me]

Nuclear is the way to go. I have one request, make them all the same with interchangeable parts. One model system, make it simple so that everyone knows how to work on each others plant. It will cut down on cost for engineering, training, parts, etc.

[Show-me]

Nuclear is the way to go. I have one request, make them all the same with interchangeable parts. One model system, make it simple so that everyone knows how to work on each others plant. It will cut down on cost for engineering, training, parts, etc.

OMG, I'm sounding like a socialist. I'm going to bed.:o

[nnuut]

OMG, I'm sounding like a socialist. I'm going to bed.:o
I don't think you sounded Socialistic!! At least you have read through the BS in the Cap and Trade TAX and Control Plan and recognized it for what it is. With all the plans to Tax us and tax us it might not be such a good idea for me to retire in 43 days. Nah, it will be OK, Obama will take care of my family, he will TAKE and TAKE and TAKE until there is nothing left. I hear there are some new brands of CAT FOOD that are really tasty?:p

[nnuut]

My-O-My !!!!!! How about that?:nuts:


Hackers leak e-mails, stoke climate debate

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:22 PM EST
David Stringer, Associated Press Writer (http://ap-21513.newsvine.com/)

LONDON (http://london.newsvine.com/) — Computer hackers have broken into a server at a well-respected climate change research center in Britain and posted hundreds of private e-mails and documents online — stoking debate over whether some scientists have overstated the case for man-made climate change.

The University of East Anglia, in eastern England, said in a statement Saturday that the hackers had entered the server and stolen data at its Climatic Research Unit, a leading global research center on climate change. The university said police are investigating the theft of the information, but could not confirm if all the materials posted online are genuine.
More than a decade of correspondence between leading British and U.S. scientists is included in about 1,000 e-mails and 3,000 documents posted on Web sites following the security breach last week.

Some climate change skeptics and bloggers claim the information shows scientists have overstated the case for global warming, and allege the documents contain proof that some researchers have attempted to manipulate data.
The furor over the leaked data comes weeks before the U.N. climate conference in Copenhagen, when 192 nations will seek to reach a binding treaty to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases worldwide. Many officials — including U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon — regard the prospects of a pact being sealed at the meeting as bleak.

In one leaked e-mail, the research center's director, Phil Jones, writes to colleagues about graphs showing climate statistics over the last millennium. He alludes to a technique used by a fellow scientist to "hide the decline" in recent global temperatures. Some evidence appears to show a halt in a rise of global temperatures from about 1960, but is contradicted by other evidence which appears to show a rise in temperatures is continuing.

ones wrote that, in compiling new data, he had "just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e., from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline," according to a leaked e-mail, which the author confirmed was genuine.
One of the colleague referred to by Jones — Michael Mann, a professor of meteorology at Pennsylvania State University — did not immediately respond to requests for comment via telephone and e-mail.
The use of the word "trick" by Jones has been seized on by skeptics — who say his e-mail offers proof of collusion between scientists to distort evidence to support their assertion that human activity is influencing climate change. http://www.climateaudit.org/
"Words fail me," Stephen McIntyre — a blogger whose climateaudit.org Web site challenges popular thinking on climate change — wrote on the site following the leak of the messages.[more]
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/11/21/3528614-hackers-leak-e-mails-stoke-climate-debate

[CountryBoy]

Nuclear is the way to go. I have one request, make them all the same with interchangeable parts. One model system, make it simple so that everyone knows how to work on each others plant. It will cut down on cost for engineering, training, parts, etc.

I agree nukes are the way to go, given the inherit disposal problems, but all sources have some problems, it's all give and take.

A lot of that makes since regarding commonality between plant design, but you have to worry, that innovation and future efficiency is not left out of the equation and if there is a glitch in the design, that doesn't show up for a period of years, you may have to pull a lot of generating capacity off line and that could easily curtail manufacturing, depending on the time required to correct the problem.

That's why I'm not real sure that our agriculture is headed in the right direction either. It's great that we are so productive, but we depend on only a handful of seeds for all our entire produce production. I would like to see more flexibility and variety in our seeds, so that one disease will not wipe out an entire crop.... say corn.

Just a thought

[nnuut]

I agree nukes are the way to go, given the inherit disposal problems, but all sources have some problems, it's all give and take.

A lot of that makes since regarding commonality between plant design, but you have to worry, that innovation and future efficiency is not left out of the equation and if there is a glitch in the design, that doesn't show up for a period of years, you may have to pull a lot of generating capacity off line and that could easily curtail manufacturing, depending on the time required to correct the problem.

That's why I'm not real sure that our agriculture is headed in the right direction either. It's great that we are so productive, but we depend on only a handful of seeds for all our entire produce production. I would like to see more flexibility and variety in our seeds, so that one disease will not wipe out an entire crop.... say corn.

Just a thought
I agree to a point, but kind of sounds like Hitler and the Volkswagen, "OK folks this is your car you can't change it".
New innovations in Nuclear Power Generation are still happening, and with the tremendous time lag of new construction it is probably a better idea to allow equipment and process changes that increase output and lessen the waste, to a point, everything can be improved on.:cool:

[CountryBoy]

I agree to a point, but kind of sounds like Hitler and the Volkswagen, "OK folks this is your car you can't change it".


I should've had that 2nd cup of joe, before I posted, because I sure didn't intend to leave this impression with my post. :confused:

[nnuut]

I should've had that 2nd cup of joe, before I posted, because I sure didn't intend to leave this impression with my post. :confused:

NO CB that wasn't my intention.:o I have coffee in my eyes this morning and actually I agree with your post. I quoted it because I am with you on most of what you said, as you know I'm not that articulate!!:embarrest: I STILL PROMOTE expanded use of Nuclear Power, it seems that Coal Fired Plants put out much more radioactive components in their waste and that's into the atmosphere.
But when THEY say that you have to realize that this level is so low it probably won't effect anyones health. Radioactive contamination is everywhere in nature Granite dust is much more radioactive than what comes out of a Coal fired power plant. I know, where did I get this information? Just from my knowledge and things I have learned over the years, I'm an NDT guy using X-Ray, Iridium 192 and Cobalt 60 radioactive sources. As a qualified Radiographer, I've worked on nuclear power plants on Nuclear Powered Submarines for years so my info may not be technically exactly right but is generally correct, I think?

[nnuut]

Radioactivity in Granite
All rocks have a small amount of radioactivity in them due to the presence of minerals containing
the radioactive elements uranium (U), thorium (Th) and potassium-40 (40K). Because
granite typically contains more of these elements than most other rocks, it will be
more radioactive than a slate or marble, for instance. All of the minerals in granite contain
some radioelements: the white or pink feldspars contain 40K, the black biotites and hornblendes
contain 40K, U and Th, and the small inclusions of minerals such as zircon, apatite,
sphene, etc. contain the most U and Th.
http://www.marble-institute.com/industryresources/truthaboutgraniteradonradiation.pdf

Using several research studies as evidence, the story does make a convincing case that, as it says, “the fly ash emitted by a power plant . . . carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy.” But that is a completely different statement than fly ash is more radioactive than nuclear waste. What it really means is that radiation emissions to the environment from an operating nuclear power plant actually are lower than the radioactivity emitted from a coal plant through fly ash residues. That’s because the reactor vessel, fuel rods, and any radioactive waste on site are well shielded, whereas fly ash, with small amounts of deadly radioactive substances, simply is emitted into the environment.
Even then, as the Scientific American article points out (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste), the radioactive content of fly ash is relatively low, and nearby residents are more likely to be struck by lightning than to develop health effects from that radiation. That’s not to downplay the risk — it is there, and it is real, just as the risk of being struck by lightning is real. The article states this clearly and responsibly. In fact, the story itself is both fascinating and well documented.
http://www.cejournal.net/?p=410

Natural Background Radiation


We are all exposed to ionizing radiation from natural sources at all times. Natural background radiation is inevitably present in our environment. Levels can vary greatly. People living in granite areas or on mineralized sands receive more terrestrial radiation than others, while people living or working at high altitudes receive more cosmic radiation. A lot of our natural exposure is due to radon, a gas which seeps from the earth's crust and is present in the air we breathe.

The main sources of natural radiation are the following:

Terrestrial Radiation
Soil
Gas
Cosmic Radiation
Natural Radioactivity in the Body http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/factsheets-htm/fs10bkvsman.htm

[CountryBoy]

NO CB that wasn't my intention.:o I have coffee in my eyes this morning and actually I agree with your post. I quoted it because I am with you on most of what you said, as you know I'm not that articulate!!:embarrest: I STILL PROMOTE expanded use of Nuclear Power, it seems that Coal Fired Plants put out much more radioactive components in their waste and that's into the atmosphere.
But when THEY say that you have to realize that this level is so low it probably won't effect anyones health. Radioactive contamination is everywhere in nature Granite dust is much more radioactive than what comes out of a Coal fired power plant. I know, where did I get this information? Just from my knowledge and things I have learned over the years, I'm an NDT guy using X-Ray, Iridium 192 and Cobalt 60 radioactive sources. As a qualified Radiographer, I've worked on nuclear power plants on Nuclear Powered Submarines for years so my info may not be technically exactly right but is generally correct, I think?

I probably read ya wrong nnuut, since my mind needs the second cup of joe someitmes.:D

[Show-me]

I highly recommend watching the series How the Earth was Made. Great show! What you really need to worry about is the caldera in Yellow Stone. lol Trust me. ;)

Next would be La Palma, in the Canary Islands. East Coast can you say flood insurance?

[coolhand]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStor ies

[Bullitt]

There you have it. Reputable scientists think it was warmer 1000 years ago than it is today in spite of all the greenhouse gasses emitted. That does not disprove global warming now, but it sure makes mince meat of the theory that greenhouse gasses are to blame.http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/11/global-warming-religion-modern-day.html

[tsptalk]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStor ies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH6_hmEgfCs

[phil]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091122/ts_afp/climatewarmingantarcticaicesheet

We'll see.

[coolhand]

I see some prefer the taste of damp soil as they keep their heads buried in the sand. :laugh:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

[coolhand]

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2188feb3-802a-23ad-4de4-3fbc0a92e126&Issue_id

[coolhand]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574547730924988354.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

[Buster]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091122/ts_afp/climatewarmingantarcticaicesheet

We'll see.

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

We've already seen..

[nnuut]

That's right, go ahead and believe Al Gore it's up to you, but for my money it is just a part of the ultimate GOAL and we all should know what that is by now!!:cool: Kinda Chilly in Georgia today!!:worried: 7325

[coolhand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH6_hmEgfCs

I like the comment about the timing before Copenhagen. Perfect!

[nnuut]

It's like one of my dreams came true!! We knew something was wrong with this BULL!! That IS SWEET!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh: 7335

[nnuut]

It's like one of my dreams came true!! We knew something was wrong with this BULL!! That IS SWEET!!! :laugh::laugh: 7335
Maybe they should take all of the money back that Big AL Gore made off of GW!!:laugh: Sugar Sugar! Tell me it isn't so!! 7336

[Buster]

Maybe they should take all of the money back that Big AL Gore made off of GW!!:laugh: Sugar Sugar! Tell me it isn't so!! 7336
And take back his Nobel Peace Prize....;)

[nnuut]

And take back his Nobel Peace Prize....;)
This reminds me of GREEN SHOOTS, might be the start of a turn around, but I shouldn't get my hopes up! Hard to think positive when your up to your chin in SLIME!:suspicious:! 7337

[mick504]

Even if all the global warming is true; although nothing proves it thus far...do you think the Chinese, India are going to do a damn thing about it. They will do some minor thing to appease our Pres...but really nothing will change. Plus, with all the money China is lending us by buying our debt, they could/would just say we'll work on it. That means little will be done for the next 100 years. Chinese think in terms of many years...not like the US in terms of months. Al Gore is the main guy making all the money with his 16 room house.

[CountryBoy]

Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

Just a few tidbits

Manipulation of evidence:

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.

Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up:

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.

Suppression of evidence:

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?

Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.

Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address.

We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.

Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Sceptic scientists:

Next
time I see Pat Michaels at a scientific meeting, I’ll be tempted to beat
the crap out of him. Very tempted.

Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP):

……Phil and I have recently submitted a paper using about a dozen NH records that fit this category, and many of which are available nearly 2K back–I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K, rather than the usual 1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/ regard to the memo, that it would be nice to try to “contain” the putative “MWP”, even if we don’t yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back….

And, perhaps most reprehensibly, a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. How, in other words, to create a scientific climate in which anyone who disagrees with AGW can be written off as a crank, whose views do not have a scrap of authority.


Of course the scam artists tried, thru various methoda, to squelch any dissenting viewpoint. Sounds familiar, censorship via Chicago style politics. Opposing view get Alinskyed as opposing political views in this country do, because there is huge money to be made on this global warming scam, especially by Algore, inventor of the internet, so opposing views must be stopped at all costs.

Thank goodness for the foriegn press, who still know how to do their job and weed out corruption. They're not beholden to bhO nor do they have any of their prestige on the line by blindly promoting this guy, as so many still do, even if it means the destruction of our econpmy and our childrens future, but hey, ya gotta break a few amendments to get your socialist agenda jammed down the publics throat. :mad:

Sorry gq, but it is early in the morn as the dog woke me up wanting in because of the rain, but have at it, I know how it thrills you so.:laugh:

[nnuut]

Got this from a link in the article posted by Country Boy. Good job CB!!

NO CAP and TRADE!!!
There is no Global Warming and this guy published that fact in March of this year. It's all about Politics and nothing else!! I say
DRILL, Baby DRILL!!:D 7342

Meet the man who has exposed the great climate change con trick

James Delingpole (http://www.spectator.co.uk/search/author/?searchString=James Delingpole)
11 July 2009

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article_images/articledir_7511/3755623/1_listing.jpg James Delingpole talks to Professor Ian Plimer, the Australian geologist, whose new book shows that ‘anthropogenic global warming’ is a dangerous, ruinously expensive fiction, a ‘first-world luxury’ with no basis in scientific fact. Shame on the publishers who rejected the book.

Imagine how wonderful the world would be if man-made global warming were just a figment of Al Gore’s imagination. No more ugly wind farms to darken our sunlit uplands. No more whopping electricity bills, artificially inflated by EU-imposed carbon taxes. No longer any need to treat each warm, sunny day as though it were some terrible harbinger of ecological doom. And definitely no need for the $7.4 trillion cap and trade (carbon-trading) bill — the largest tax in American history — which President Obama and his cohorts are so assiduously trying to impose on the US economy.
Imagine no more, for your fairy godmother is here. His name is Ian Plimer, Professor of Mining Geology at Adelaide University, and he has recently published the landmark book Heaven And Earth, which is going to change forever the way we think about climate change.
‘The hypothesis that human activity can create global warming is extraordinary because it is contrary to validated knowledge from solar physics, astronomy, history, archaeology and geology,’ says Plimer, and while his thesis is not new, you’re unlikely to have heard it expressed with quite such vigour, certitude or wide-ranging scientific authority. Where fellow sceptics like Bjorn Lomborg or Lord Lawson of Blaby are prepared cautiously to endorse the International Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) more modest predictions, Plimer will cede no ground whatsoever. Anthropogenic global warming (AGW) theory, he argues, is the biggest, most dangerous and ruinously expensive con trick in history. [much more]
http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/3755623/meet-the-man-who-has-exposed-the-great-climate-change-con-trick.thtml

[Show-me]

Just some more of the fact baby! Fire them all, arrest them, seize their assets, and make them pay back the money they pissed away. Right Phil?

And, Al Gore proves the Nobel is a piece of crap political kudos ass kisser award.

[nnuut]

Just some more of the fact baby! Fire them all, arrest them, seize their assets, and make them pay back the money they pissed away. Right Phil?

And, Al Gore proves the Nobel is a piece of crap political kudos ass kisser award.
Well said my Man, you Show-Them!!:laugh: That should be 2 less things to worry about ,but there are MORE, don't let your guard down!:cool:

[Buster]

Having just did a day long lecture on climate change and the EPA's stance on everything..it doesn't take a scientist to see the fallacy of all this..My lectures included known and some conjured up facts about the Ozone hole and how us Earthlings have depleted it due to our using CFCs refrigerants and some aerosols..A little know fact that the EPA doesn't want the general public to know is; NASA uses literally TONS of R-12 refrigerant (with ODP {Ozone Depletion Potential} of 1 the standard the rest of the refrigerant scale is based on) every time they launch a shuttle or space rocket...R-12 is used to cool the rocket nozzles and then just dumped into the atmosphere as it is used..Kind of hypocritical to me..But yet, 130 countries signed a treaty to stop making the CFCs and forced the industry to develop alternative refrigerants at the cost of billions and to which us consumers foot the bill, by means of new equipment, high costs in servicing A/C systems, etc.

Just an FYI;)

[nnuut]

Having just did a day long lecture on climate change and the EPA's stance on everything..it doesn't take a scientist to see the fallacy of all this..My lectures included known and some conjured up facts about the Ozone hole and how us Earthlings have depleted it due to our using CFCs refrigerants and some aerosols..A little know fact that the EPA doesn't want the general public to know is; NASA uses litteraly TONS of R-12 refrigerant (with ODP{Ozone Depletion Potential} of 1 the standard the rest of the refrigerant scale is based on) everytime they launch a shuttle or space rocket...R-12 is used to cool the rocket nozzels and then just dumped into the atmosphere as it is used..Kind of hypocritcal to me..But yet, 130 countries signed a treaty to stop making the CFCs and forced the industry to develope alternative refrigerants at the cost of billions and to which us consumers foot the bill, by means of new equipment, high costs in service ing A/C systems, etc.

Just an FYI;)
Wow!! You're a Cool Dude, I have been enlightened as to your knowledge and abilities!! Slick:D

[Valkyrie]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

"But to judge by the way – despite the best efforts of the MSM not to report on it – the CRU scandal is spreading like wildfire across the internet, this shabby story represents a blow to the AGW lobby’s credibility from which it is never likely to recover."

[Valkyrie]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100014325/copenhagen-a-step-closer-to-one-world-government/

"Monckton believes that climate change hysteria is being exploited by the green liberal left – watermelons, as they’re nicknamed: green on the outside; red on the inside – to usher in a form of one world government. He claims to have seen evidence of this in a draft treaty due to be signed off by world leaders at this December’s Copenhagen climate change conference."

exactly what the book "the greening" stated in 1990.

A new world-wide system and philosphy is coming in 2012?

[CountryBoy]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100014325/copenhagen-a-step-closer-to-one-world-government/

"Monckton believes that climate change hysteria is being exploited by the green liberal left – watermelons, as they’re nicknamed: green on the outside; red on the inside – to usher in a form of one world government. He claims to have seen evidence of this in a draft treaty due to be signed off by world leaders at this December’s Copenhagen climate change conference."

exactly what the book "the greening" stated in 1990.

A new world-wide system and philosphy is coming in 2012?

Boy, watermelon sure is descriptive of the greenie weenie movement. It's also a religion to alot of these folks and they'd be just as happy is all human life ceased to exist, sans them off course. Those types always know best. :rolleyes:

[phil]

What exactly has been revealed? Does any of this change the data?

From Wikipedia:

It cited the view of the RealClimate (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/RealClimate) blog that what was not contained in the e-mails was the most interesting element: "There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/George_Soros) nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to 'get rid of the MWP' [Medieval Warm Period (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period)], no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no 'marching orders' from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords." The science historian Spencer R. Weart (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/Spencer_R._Weart), interviewed in the Washington Post, commented that the theft of the e-mails and the reaction to them was "a symptom of something entirely new in the history of science (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/History_of_science): Aside from crackpots who complain that a conspiracy is suppressing their personal discoveries, we've never before seen a set of people accuse an entire community of scientists of deliberate deception and other professional malfeasance. Even the tobacco companies never tried to slander legitimate cancer researchers."

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/American_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Scienc e) has "expressed concern that the hacked emails would weaken global resolve to curb greenhouse-gas emissions".

The Daily Telegraph (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph) reported that academics and climate change researchers have dismissed allegations from sceptics that the emails are evidence of a collusion or international conspiracy, saying that nothing in the emails proves wrongdoing. A spokesman for the Met Office (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/Met_Office) that works with the UEA on climate monitoring, said: "We are utterly confident that there was no collusion or manipulation. All the data used was peer reviewed and we are certain it is fully reliable."

[Buster]

Yes and what About Wiki ?

Since Wikipedia is in reality a vast and changing document the answers can only be general. The information contained in Wikipedia, like all information, depends on the knowledge or the ability of the person giving the information. Where they don't have specific knowledge of a particular subject they rely on the accuracy of their sources of information, which may be limited or, in questions of opinion, may give a somewhat biased view, (as everyone tends to do) based on the conclusions they have reached from their own viewpoint and/or study.

Another problem with Wikipedia is that it is 'consensus driven' in that the policy regarding answers relating to opinion requires a consensus view to be put. This may be the correct view, or as we all know, 'the majority is not always right.' The majority once thought the earth was the center of the universe. Thus we end up with pooled ignorance.

On matters of opinion, such as religious or moral questions, there must be due recognition that any answer will inevitably reflect either the bias of the writer of the article or the current consensus view or what the author or authors think is the current consensus view. All of these could be wrong, either in whole or in part, but will naturally be well-presented as fact and with supporting argumentation, which may or may not be spurious, if one does not have the knowledge to critique it.

In other words, as with anything, learn to check your facts, no matter how well argued.

Again this topic has come full circle..:D..Maybe time to close this chapter and resign this thread..:cool:

[CountryBoy]

EDITORIAL: Hiding evidence of global cooling Junk science exposed among climate-change believers

Professor Phil Jones, the head of the Climate Research Unit, and professor Michael E. Mann at Pennsylvania State University, who has been an important scientist in the climate debate, have come under particular scrutiny. Among his e-mails, Mr. Jones talked to Mr. Mann about the "trick of adding in the real temps to each series ... to hide the decline [in temperature]."

Mr. Mann admitted that he was party to this conversation and lamely explained to the New York Times that "scientists often used the word 'trick' to refer to a good way to solve a problem 'and not something secret.' " Though the liberal New York newspaper apparently buys this explanation, we have seen no benign explanation that justifies efforts by researchers to skew data on so-called global-warming "to hide the decline." Given the controversies over the accuracy of Mr. Mann's past research, it is surprising his current explanations are accepted so readily.

There is a lot of damning evidence about these researchers concealing information that counters their bias. In another exchange, Mr. Jones told Mr. Mann: "If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than send to anyone" and, "We also have a data protection act, which I will hide behind." Mr. Jones further urged Mr. Mann to join him in deleting e-mail exchanges about the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) controversial assessment report (ARA): "Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re [the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report]?"

Repeatedly throughout the e-mails that have been made public, proponents of global-warming theories refer to data that has been hidden or destroyed.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/24/hiding-evidence-of-global-cooling/

Thank goodness for foreign papers, cause the truth would never get out and the watermelons would continue their spin and cover-ups ;), buy hey who cares if the truth may be hidden, they don't dare want to have an honest open debate of both views. So much for transparency.

[phil]

The topic has indeed come full circle here. Thank you very much for that thoughtful and well written article!

However, you forgot to thank Shammi Sam.

http://tech.yahoo.com/qa/20090429043956AAii42y

I wouldn't close this out quite yet. I'm looking forward to Whatever Happened to What Happened to Global Warming.


Yes and what About Wiki ?

Since Wikipedia is in reality a vast and changing document the answers can only be general. The information contained in Wikipedia, like all information, depends on the knowledge or the ability of the person giving the information. Where they don't have specific knowledge of a particular subject they rely on the accuracy of their sources of information, which may be limited or, in questions of opinion, may give a somewhat biased view, (as everyone tends to do) based on the conclusions they have reached from their own viewpoint and/or study.

Another problem with Wikipedia is that it is 'consensus driven' in that the policy regarding answers relating to opinion requires a consensus view to be put. This may be the correct view, or as we all know, 'the majority is not always right.' The majority once thought the earth was the center of the universe. Thus we end up with pooled ignorance.

On matters of opinion, such as religious or moral questions, there must be due recognition that any answer will inevitably reflect either the bias of the writer of the article or the current consensus view or what the author or authors think is the current consensus view. All of these could be wrong, either in whole or in part, but will naturally be well-presented as fact and with supporting argumentation, which may or may not be spurious, if one does not have the knowledge to critique it.

In other words, as with anything, learn to check your facts, no matter how well argued.

Again this topic has come full circle..:D..Maybe time to close this chapter and resign this thread..:cool:

[Buster]

However, you forgot to thank Shammi Sam.

http://tech.yahoo.com/qa/20090429043956AAii42y



Well hang me from the highest tree..I forgot to add the quotation marks....You really need to get a hobby Phil..:rolleyes::D

[phil]

Sure thing. :laugh:

[Steadygain]

What exactly has been revealed? Does any of this change the data?


Yes and what About Wiki ?


Hiding evidence of global cooling Junk science exposed among climate-change believers

Boys..... boys :rolleyes:

Surely this shows us the 'male wiring' is inescapable for those who have it -- so let's celebrate what we have in common :)

All of us (girls too) are floating 'spirits' encapsuled in our temporary jars of clay. So let those spirits 'shine' and seize the moment and let's celebrate life together. :D

As Barney says: 'I love you -- you love me -- we're a great big family'

...'with a great big hug and a kiss from me to you'

...'won't you say you love me too' ;)

[grandma]

...'with a great big hug and a kiss from me to you'


...'won't you say you love me too' ;)
7354
....sure - why not ??

[Buster]

As Big Bird says:..Today's letter is "G"..for, Get a Room!:p

[nnuut]

I won't close this thread until it's over, and it's NOT over! I expect that the evidence will face the drival of many pundents that will claim it didn't happen, that the "tricks" didn't effect the results etc.
THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE, but the TRUTH is an endangered species! 7358

[coolhand]

I love these old tunes. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk

[nnuut]

I LOVE THAT TUNE!!!!!!!:laugh::D I'M soooo Happy I could dance a Jig! YEAH!!!:D
7366 7365 7364 7363 7367

[Buster]

Awesome..tunage
http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_dance-cpatch.gifhttp://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_banana.gifhttp://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_dance-tap.gifhttp://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_band.gif

[CountryBoy]

Now I'll have that tune in my mind the rest of the day. :nuts: Now if only our own media will open it's eyes, but don't hold your breath on the watermelons. :laugh:

[coolhand]

Here comes the onslaught. :D

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/25/uh-oh-raw-data-in-new-zealand-tells-a-different-story-than-the-official-one/

[coolhand]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576887,00.html

So, where does this leave Al Gore? He's got his hands all over this leafy Ponzi scheme and he stands to make butt-loads of money off propagated fear. Something tells me he won't be discussing these e-mails in "Hopenhagen," because as long as the sky keeps falling, his bank account keeps rising.

And if you disagree with me, then you sir are a racist.

http://nzclimatescience.net/images/PDFs/global_warming_nz2.pdf

[nnuut]

Looks like more MEAT in the STEW POT to me. I can hear it now, Gore claims he was Horns waggled, furnished tainted information and is at no fault, the false science is to blame, Now their after ME????? Want to bet?
7370

[coolhand]

Looks like more MEAT in the STEW POT to me. I can hear it now, Gore claims he was Horns waggled, furnished tainted information and is at no fault, the false science is to blame, Now their after ME????? Want to bet?

I wouldn't take that bet. ;)

[Buster]

For once a Hacker did the right thing!!!;)

[Buster]

Ydo2Mwnwpac


5Hftsk4gWqI&feature=related


Norm, I pretty much think this is the beginning of the end for this Global Warming Hoax;)

[phil]

Dr. Ball is the former head of the Friends of Science. They are not/not exclusively funded by the oil industry. Sometimes you have to be able to identify astroturf.


From Wikipedia:

Friends of Science claims that they do not receive any direct funding from petroleum or related companies although the now retired CEO of Talisman provided initial funding for the video. Proponents of anthropogenic climate warming have criticized the Friends of Science as an Astroturfing (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/Astroturfing) organization with close links to the oil and gas industry.Their funding sources are unclear; Canadian Member of Parliament (MP) John Godfrey, a Liberal who represented the Toronto riding of Don Valley West, had said in 2006, "Financial links between the petroleum industry and climate change skeptic (http://www.tsptalk.com/wiki/Global_warming_controversy) groups in the United States are well documented... We need more transparency about who is behind this campaign in Canada."The Friends of Science say their "efforts to bring balance to the climate change debate are being restricted because of our lack of funding. We have mostly relied upon the good nature of our members, with some contributions from Charitable Foundations. There has also been some funding from “big oil”. But they seldom smile on us. They appear to believe that marketing is more important than historical climate information…Your support is essential for getting things done! Without it, we will probably have to shut down operations within the year."
Funds do not come directly from industry donors but are instead solicited for the Calgary Foundation, a charitable funds administrator which maintains a policy of not disclosing the identity of donors. The donations are then passed on to the Science Education Fund, an account at the University of Calgary set up by Prof. Barry Cooper. In the final step, the Science Education Fund uses those funds to support the activities of the Friends of Science. Friends of Science does not disclose details of their funding sources, though Cooper has stated that their funds are "not exclusively from the oil and gas industry

[coolhand]

http://detnews.com/article/20091126/OPINION03/911260322/1008/opinion01/-Climategate--puts-warming-in-question

Obama will pledge the United States to curbing its appetite for energy, and thus its economic growth, will make reducing emissions a higher priority than creating new jobs and will agree to transfer $1.6 trillion of our wealth to China, India and the other booming developing economies.

And it may be based on doctored numbers.

[Buster]

Sometimes you have to be able to identify astroturf.

Exactly!...

..here are a couple of clods of fake sod..

http://towleroad.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/branson_gore.jpg<--Notice how close Algore's hand is to Branson's pocket......Suddenly the Beatles' Song "Can't buy Me Love" makes a little more cents now..

[nnuut]

Look we have so much to be thankful for, GLOBAL WARMING has been BEATEN what a blessing that is!!!! This is a good time to give a big ATTABOY to the SKEPTICS, for they were right this time. We all know they are not always correct in their negativism, but this time they unearthed a BIG ONE that is all part of a BIGGER ONE with a much more diabolical agenda. Time to think for yourselves people, don't blindly follow, don't trust in the name of Change for Change sake alone, find the best path and work in that direction, back to the basics. Saving the REPUBLIC would be a good start. :cool:
OH, watch out the ICE AGE RETURNETH! 7372

[phil]

I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

[nnuut]

EXACTLY!!:notrust:

[CountryBoy]

How to Forge a Consensus

The impression left by the Climategate emails is that the global warming game has been rigged from the start.


According to this privileged group, only those whose work has been published in select scientific journals, after having gone through the "peer-review" process, can be relied on to critique the science. And sure enough, any challenges that critics have lobbed at climatologists from outside this clique are routinely dismissed and disparaged.

The response to this among the defenders of Mr. Mann and his circle has been that even if they did disparage doubters and exclude contrary points of view, theirs is still the best climate science we've got. The proof for this is circular. It's the best, we're told, because it's the most-published and most-cited—in that same peer-reviewed literature.


Let us see...it's their playing field, their ball, their officials and their rules. Now that is the makings of a credible debate amongst scientists, who are no more believable than our pols. All they want is more money for their fanciful studies. :laugh: Algore sure made out like a bandit.

[Frixxxx]

Algore sure made out like a bandit.
Nobel is rolling in his grave:suspicious:

[Birchtree]

On the White House front lawn after the impeachment wound down Big Al held a news conference in which he stated that history would show that peroni Bill was our greatest president. I wonder what big Joe will say about socialist Barry?

[nnuut]

On the White House front lawn after the impeachment wound down Big Al held a news conference in which he stated that history would show that peroni Bill was our greatest president. I wonder what big Joe will say about socialist Barry?
Yes, Bill is a crooked Devil!! :sick: And Big AL is either one of the Biggest Fall Guys in American history or is Parodied like Crooked Bill?

[Buster]

Yes, Bill is a crooked Devil!! :sick: And Big AL is either one of the Biggest Fall Guys in American history or is Parodied like Crooked Bill?
If y'all think President Obama is a worry..(I'm still giving him a chance to prove himself)..Then, can you imagine what it would have been like under Algore?..Thank God for hanging Chad.:nuts:

[nnuut]

I think I'm going to close this thread and open up one Named "What to do now that there is NO Global Warming"? Let me think about it.:confused: 7385

[grandma]

No - don't close it yet - my latest read is that our President has announced (this morning's paper) full intentions of signing the Copenhagen pact.
- determined in spite of, regardless of.....isn't he?:mad:

...'course - I guess you could work that into the new title ...!

[nnuut]

No - don't close it yet - my latest read is that our President has announced (this morning's paper) full intentions of signing the Copenhagen pact.
- determined in spite of, regardless of.....isn't he?:mad:

...'course - I guess you could work that into the new title ...!

He should ask for an investigation of the findings and the supporting data!! If he doesn't it means that he just doesn't care if it's real or not and will sign only to promote his agenda. I think I'll stop there I shouldn't comment about the Pres when I'm MAD!:nuts:

[CountryBoy]

He should ask for an investigation of the findings and the supporting data!! If he doesn't it means that he just doesn't care if it's real or not and will sign only to promote his agenda. I think I'll stop there I shouldn't comment about the Pres when I'm MAD!:nuts:

Unfortunately that is what most of the pols are doing... ignoring the American people. Pelosi even said, that we're going to pass a Health care bill regardless of what the American people or want. And the American people just lower their subservient heads and follow her blindly, regardless of that it hasn't even been read by anyone of them and put together by big pharma and lobbyist (weren't they banned by bHo, well what's another lie on the many he's already told), the people that you supposedly villify!! This is so pathetic!

They and their supporters are arrogant beyond belief and believe that those of us that don't support their socialistic agenda are stupid. Well Global warminmg sure back fired into their socialistic faces. What a cover-up, trying to squelch any opposing view. Again, thank God for foreign journalist, bause our suck up media, sure ain't covering squat of any importance. That's why obamy wants control of the internet, those who control the flow of information also control the power!!!

That's how I view his supporters now, because that is the example he is setting. He even said hit them, (Americans with opposing views) back twice as hard (union thugs come in good for something), :laugh: some prez representing all the people and trying to pull us together. Good example barry.

Well, this stupid American for one is just feed up to here, slicing neck motion, with that type of arrogant know-it-all attitude, elitist attitude being displayed by the obamatons. (insert mad icon here)

All this is going on before our very eyes. :blink: I was raised to ask questions and not blindly follow anyone or what they say, that doesn't seem to be the way anymore, no fact checking, from several sources and with the internet, your sources are unlimited.

Screw my spelling and punk-chew-a-shun. :laugh: Only on my first cup of Joe.

[nnuut]

I'm on my 2nd cup of JOE!!
I like this guy's perspective:
Posted by Rick Moran at 07:59 AM | Permalink (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/alternative_media_scoops_msm_o.html) | 3 Comments (http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/488875.html)
Obama's 'Cardiff Giant'

Monty Pelerin
The Cardiff Giant (http://www.skepdic.com/cardiff.html), known as "America's Greatest Hoax," has new competition for the title -- Global Warming. Recent revelations (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574547730924988354.html) of what appear to be doctored data, corrupted scientists and pressured peer reviews have produced terms such as "Climategate," "Climaqquidick," and similar pejoratives. Describing the events of the past week, Senator Jim Inhofe, a consistent critic of the science said: "Ninety-five percent of the nails were in the coffin prior to this week. Now they are all in."

Despite what appears evidence of outright fraud, President Obama refuses to acknowledge, no less investigate, what is increasingly becoming known as "The World's Greatest Hoax." Obama's intentions to go off to Copenhagen, pretending that "the science is settled," is a political gaffe of enormous proportion. It puts whatever is left of his rapidly diminishing credibility at risk, as well as his agenda.

Most political disagreements are ideological and too complex to easily prove anything. Health care is a good example. It is ideological and many-faceted. There is no definitive way to "prove" that one side is right and the other wrong. In health care, this was particularly evident as the objectives ("marketing' to the public?) shifted as required. In situations like this, credibility is all important. "Can I trust what this man says?" becomes the measure that the public uses to support or reject these complex issues.

Obama's position will be devastating because it is counter to science. Science, done properly, is black or white. It does not rest on consensus, it rests on facts. Al Gore tried to cut off debate on the subject by claiming there was a "consensus." Every scientific advance has been made by one or a small minority that conflicted with "the consensus." That Gore has made millions by a form of street-hustling does not help the credibility of climate-change supporters.

The public had serious doubts about the validity of climate-warming before the recent revelations. They know they will suffer from cap and trade legislation. Their lifestyles will be adversely affected by forced legislative changes (lightbulbs, centrally-controlled thermostats, etc.). Their cost of living will be driven up substantially. Industrial growth will slow. America will become less competitive in the world. Additionally, many sense that the plan will include a redistribution of wealth from richer to poorer nations and may be a step toward world government. If the future of mankind were truly at stake, such sacrifices might be worthwhile. Without that, the proposed legislation is viewed as nothing more than masochistic and controlling. It becomes just another way to extract taxes from the American public.

That Obama wants to proceed full-speed ahead without hard science suggests that his objective is to inflate his image in the eyes of the rest of the world. While I don't believe that will happen, the attempt is clearly at the expense of the American people. To those that realize that the science is faulty, Obama loses all credibility. To others, his credibility may merely decrease. Regardless, his ability to pass health care and other parts of his agenda depends on his credibility. He has little left.

An eerie parallel is that the Cardiff Giant was made in Chicago and buried in NY. We may be witnessing another Cardiff Giant made in Chicago, but "buried" in Washington, DC. An earlier post (http://www.economicnoise.com/2009/11/19/another-failed-presidency/) surmised this outcome.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/

[nnuut]

SCAM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjHBGVree0

[phil]

For those of you who don't believe in Global Warming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

I'm sure there's some good scientific content here. There's a conspiracy by the rest of us trying to show that the world isn't really flat. You just have to hack those e-mails in the scientific community to prove it.

What happened to the World is round?

[nnuut]

Flat Earth Society? Al Gore seems to have a long history of being WRONG, ironic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP71wQL4als&feature=related

[nnuut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts6D4bhgLCQ&feature=related

[phil]

One quote from the video:

"carbon emissions caused by humans is as much a nonsense as the official story of 9/11."
Sounds good. Do tell, what is the real story?

I didn't see a lot of facts and figures on the video. In fact, there weren't any. No empirical models, no mathematics.

[coolhand]

For those of you who don't believe in Global Warming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

I'm sure there's some good scientific content here. There's a conspiracy by the rest of us trying to show that the world isn't really flat. You just have to hack those e-mails in the scientific community to prove it.

What happened to the World is round?

You seem to do a good job of ignoring counter points. Not all of them are off-base. I guess it's like Skypilot says. You like to have the last word.

[phil]

Then state what, exactly, has been proven by someone reading private e-mails from a university. The issue here is that people believe that there is some vast conspiracy to fake scientific data.

Where is the proof that global warming is not occuring and has anyone read the proof that it is occuring?

Conspiracy? Yes, and we need only to follow where the money trying to debunk global warming is coming from, just like we only need to see where the money is coming from for a lot of government expenditures, and the relationship these entities have with congress and the executive branch.

A good job of IGNORING counterpoints? Not at all, I think I try to address them, not ignore them. Do I enjoy having the last word? No, not really. I'll let you have the last word, if you like.


You seem to do a good job of ignoring counter points. Not all of them are off-base. I guess it's like Skypilot says. You like to have the last word.

[coolhand]

Conspiracy? Yes, and we need only to follow where the money trying to debunk global warming is coming from, just like we only need to see where the money is coming from for a lot of government expenditures, and the relationship these entities have with congress and the executive branch.



See, that's what's so funny about many of your arguments. It's one-sided. Liberal and Progressives would never lie, would they? And they don't care about money either, do they?

They're all a bunch of liars. :laugh:

[phil]

A bunch of liars? No, I don't see that. Are my arguments one-sided? It's possible, maybe because I've seen so much absolute drivel being put out by the other side, starting with Iraq and continuing on and on. I was just curious as to when the American people became so gullible. I think it came many years ago, during the Vietnam myth, which created a lot of distrust in our government. Then Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc.

The right has an agenda that I just don't buy into. Eventually, it becomes self-defeating propaganda. One of the few things that the right points to is Monica Lewinsky. If that's all you've got......

Does the left care about money? Yes, they do. They also care about people, more importantly. :)

Ignoring counterpoints? If there's a counterpoint, I'd like to see it.



See, that's what's so funny about many of your arguments. It's one-sided. Liberal and Progressives would never lie, would they? And they don't care about money either, do they?

They're all a bunch of liars. :laugh:

[coolhand]

Yes, they do. They also care about people, more importantly. :)

You've bought their own particular brand of rhetoric phil. Hook, line, and sinker.

I won't defend many of the past Republicans because too many of them didn't follow their own roots. It's all about power and control. And the liberal progressive) brand is not any different when it comes to power and control. It's just another ideology.

Follow the money indeed. I can certainly agree with that. But it applies across the board.

[JTH]

Congrats Phil

Over 600 post in less than 3 months and not one of them has anything to do with TSP Talk. I've seen your kind before on other forums. You come here with the sole purpose of causing trouble with your blind one-sided hatred, mixed in with insulting sarcasitic post to others while always having to get in the last word by never shutting up.

The bad news is you will never recover from this sickness, the good news is I get to have the last word by adding you to my ignore list... ;)

[Buster]

Congrats Phil


The bad news is you will never recover from this sickness, the good news is I get to have the last word by adding you to my ignore list... ;)
Unfortunately the rest of us still see what he posts to you and he get's that last word in regardless...:suspicious:

[phil]

Go ahead.

The fact of the matter here is that my, as you say, "blind one-sided hatred" never comes out in any personal attack on anyone here. The opposite is not true.

The best news is that I've achieved my goal. You've been so adversely affected by the truth that now you're having to "add me to the ignore list".:)

One day, I hope that you'll be able to tell fact from fiction.....an important asset in life. In the meantime, Good luck and Good Wishes!


Congrats Phil

Over 600 post in less than 3 months and not one of them has anything to do with TSP Talk. I've seen your kind before on other forums. You come here with the sole purpose of causing trouble with your blind one-sided hatred, mixed in with insulting sarcasitic post to others while always having to get in the last word by never shutting up.

The bad news is you will never recover from this sickness, the good news is I get to have the last word by adding you to my ignore list... ;)

[CountryBoy]

Congrats Phil

Over 600 post in less than 3 months and not one of them has anything to do with TSP Talk. I've seen your kind before on other forums. You come here with the sole purpose of causing trouble with your blind one-sided hatred, mixed in with insulting sarcasitic post to others while always having to get in the last word by never shutting up.

The bad news is you will never recover from this sickness, the good news is I get to have the last word by adding you to my ignore list... ;)

Add "very narcissistic" to your vocabulary and that'll help explain alot. :laugh:

[phil]

Could be. Then again I do care very much for people.

[mick504]

By the time the scientists agree...which they never will...we will all be dead because of a nuclear war anyway....China allying w/Russia, we and the Brits and AUs. Does the current admin...believe they are going to get China...still very backward...alot of people still not fed...greedy businessmen trying to make a buck, corruption...not paying employees, complain and you get beat up....going thru an industrial revolution... and then not burn coal. Get real...not in our lifetime.

[mick504]

"A fool can ask many questions that a wise man can't answer" My dad...bless his soul!

[phil]

Yes. They do.


Does the current admin...believe they are going to get China...still very backward...alot of people still not fed...greedy businessmen trying to make a buck, corruption...not paying employees, complain and you get beat up....going thru an industrial revolution... and then not burn coal?