ROTH IRA VS. TRADITIONAL IRA Part 2

[pyriel]

My wife and I are planning onmoving our TSP to an IRA account when I retire. I just can't decide between ROTH and Traditional IRA. My wife and I are maxing out on TSP and ROTH IRA. On 2006, we also plan on maxing out our TSP to 15K each. We plan on leaving the money to my two kids since income from our retirement and businessshould be more than enoughfor us to live comfortably. We don't think we are going to be touching ourIRA account when we retire and we both live comfortably now. We both know that we want to move our TSP to an IRA account so that our kids can stretch themandatory withdrawal (according to their life expectancy) and have the account grow tax deferred. Can somebody please give me the pros and cons between the two? My wife and I are 37 & 34 and my kids are 3 & 1 years old.

I just want to say that I really enjoy coming here because I am getting alot of good advice from everyone. Thanks...

[Mike]

It depends.

If the income generated from this account is likely to exceed the present income level that you are at, it would be wise to go the Roth route and take the tax hit now, since the rate paid would be less than if you deferred it (since greater income in the future would yield a higher tax bracket). However, if the income will be equal to or less than the present, then a traditional IRA would work just fine.

[Rod]

As of now, you can only roll over your TSP into a Traditional IRA and not a ROTH.

BUT, you should be able to roll it over into the Traditional then roll the Traditional over into a ROTH.

Here's a fact sheet:

http://tsp.gov/uniserv/forms/oc91-16.pdf

God Bless:^

Rod is right, a friend of mine is currently rolling over 3 retirement funds that she has collected through the years into a Traditional IRA with Scottrade. Then she is going to roll that over into a Roth. There is no time frame to do this. Once the money is in the Traditional, you can roll it into a Roth at anytime.

Good Luck

M_M

[Rod]

mlk_man wrote:
Rod is right, a friend of mine is currently rolling over 3 retirement funds that she has collected through the years into a Traditional IRA with Scottrade. Then she is going to roll that over into a Roth. There is no time frame to do this. Once the money is in the Traditional, you can roll it into a Roth at anytime.

Good Luck

M_M

Hey Mike, should we think we can make more $$$ off of a ROTH mutual fund rather than simplykeeping it in our TSP?

I've often wondered about this. What do you think?

Rod wrote:

Hey Mike, should we think we can make more $$$ off of a ROTH mutual fund rather than simplykeeping it in our TSP?

I've often wondered about this. What do you think?






I personally can make, am making, four times as much in my Roth accounts than TSP..........

mlk_man wrote:
Rod wrote:

Hey Mike, should we think we can make more $$$ off of a ROTH mutual fund rather than simplykeeping it in our TSP?

I've often wondered about this. What do you think?






I personally can make, am making, four times as much in my Roth accounts than TSP..........Oops, sorry, it averages out to about 5 times actually.............

[Rod]

mlk_man wrote:
mlk_man wrote:
Rod wrote:

Hey Mike, should we think we can make more $$$ off of a ROTH mutual fund rather than simplykeeping it in our TSP?

I've often wondered about this. What do you think?






I personally can make, am making, four times as much in my Roth accounts than TSP..........Oops, sorry, it averages out to about 5 times actually.............
That's really great. If you don't mind me asking, what mutual fund are you with?

Rod wrote:

That's really great. If you don't mind me asking, what mutual fund are you with?





Profunds ultra and ultrashort funds. There are different ones, take your pic.

Just pic wisely................:^

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/fam/profunds.html

[Rod]

mlk_man wrote:
Rod wrote:

That's really great. If you don't mind me asking, what mutual fund are you with?





Profunds ultra and ultrashort funds. There are different ones, take your pic.

Just pic wisely................:^

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/fam/profunds.html

Thanx!:^

Guys,

Remember about converting. The reason you can roll over the TSP to only a traditional IRA at first is because they are similiar vehicles (the money went in pre-tax). You all already know this. Two things to consider for the Roth IRA conversion after that. I have converted Traditional IRA to Roth so this is from experience.

1-There is a tax consequence for rolling it over. All the money that went in pre-tax (I don't believe the gains, just the principal) is taxed at your current tax bracket. You may want to converta littleyear by yearto spread out the tax burdern.

2-You must be married filing joint on your tax return to have a Roth and you can't convert anything into a Roth unless your AGI is below $100K, I believe.

please check me on this but I think this is mostly correct. Let me know.

One question:

Can you convert your TSP into a traditional Roth at anytime? Am I getting that from your posts? If so, interesting.

Mike,

Is the new system working pretty well for the Profunds Ultra small cap/Ultra short small cap right now? just curious.

Joel

Mike, Rod and others,

Correct that you can rolla traditionalinto a Roth anytime, providing your combined AGI (annual gross income)is under 100K! Also, you must be married filing joint on your tax return and you incure a huge tax bill (unless you have a small amount to roll over)when you roll from traditional to Roth. It may be a better idea to do it a little at a time, so you can spread out the tax burden (taxed at your current tax bracket) These things must be considered before you roll over a traditional IRA to a Roth. I've done this with a small amount of $ (less than 5K) already. I hope this helps.

Mike,

I guess you started your Scottrade acct? I thought that wasn't until next year? How is the new system with it? I also would guess that while in the S fund, you have been in Profunds Ultra Small cap and while in G, you go to Profunds Ultra Short Small cap? Just curious.

Joel

Sorry about the second post! When I hit send on the first postan error occured. When I went to see if it was there, it wasn't until I posted the second post. Sorry, Sorryto tobe be redundent redundent. Happy Thanksgiving.

Joel

[Rod]

jgpalmerdds wrote:
Can you convert your TSP into a traditional Roth at anytime? Am I getting that from your posts? If so, interesting.





Please don't confuse the Traditonal & ROTH IRA. It sounds as if you combined the 2 into 1.

You cannot convert into a ROTH, but you can convert into the Traditional.

I believe you can only convert when you leave Federal Service and close your account. But, check out the fact sheet on the TSP site to be for sure.

God Bless:^

[pyriel]

All,

Thanks for all of your advice. I just want to reiterate what all of you are saying. If I misinterpreted them, please correct me.

1. Must roll over TSPto traditional then ROTH.

2. ROTH is a better vehicle due to non-tax distribution that my kids will get.

3. Spread out the roll over from traditional to ROTH so that not togo above AGI ($100K). Is it $100K or is it $150K for married filing jointly.This is a good idea. I never thought about this.

4. Find a good IRA custodian that provide high yield but yet is able to weather major ups and down in the market.

I was just reading a book that in ROTH IRA, there is no mandatory withdrawal period (traditional = you must start withdrawing at 70.5 yrs old) and you may contribute until the day before you die as long as you have earning. Any thought on this?

[pyriel]

mlk_man wrote:
Rod wrote:

That's really great. If you don't mind me asking, what mutual fund are you with?





Profunds ultra and ultrashort funds. There are different ones, take your pic.

Just pic wisely................:^

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/fam/profunds.html

Milk_man,

Ok, I followed the website above and I got scared. I am so wet behind the ear that I wouldn't know which one is which. No wonder you said "Just pic wisely" I guess, I am looking for a fund that I can just contribute monthly and not worry too much about it(who am I kidding?). Ups and down in the market doesn't really bother me especially, if the fund has survived many crashes in the past...

ALL,

I plan on increasing my ROTH IRA. Any suggestion?What I am looking for is a fund that has been around (10-20 years),must be aggressive (I think I have time in my side), and not too much expenses. I don't mind paying loads as long as they balance out later and fund is a good performer. I am also looking for long term...

Additionally, how the heck do I give mana to people who are very knowledable and very helpful... Thanks....:D

[S280]

I am with you. I am really looking forward to this response. I looked at that link and thought, How the hell do you know what to pick.

Steve

Guys and Girls:

First of all, I mispoke. Let me explain:

There are 2 different types of IRA's: Traditional and Roth. The TSP can be rolled over to a Traditional IRA after you leave Gov't service (per Rod). As he said, check the TSP website as to when you can roll the TSP to the Traditional.

Now, let's say you have rolled the TSP to the Traditional IRA: you can now convert this Trad. IRA to a Roth IRA if the following is true:

You file your taxes married filing joint and your (you and spouse) adjusted Gross Income (AGI)is under 100K. The 150K cap for AGI is for contributing right to a Roth IRA, not the transfer.

Also, the reason for convertinga percentageper year (from Trad to Roth) is to not have to pay all the taxes on the conversion in one year, it has nothing to do with adjusting the AGI. I hope this helps.

Joel

pyriel wrote:
Ok, I followed the website above and I got scared. I am so wet behind the ear that I wouldn't know which one is which. No wonder you said "Just pic wisely" I guess, I am looking for a fund that I can just contribute monthly and not worry too much about it(who am I kidding?). Ups and down in the market doesn't really bother me especially, if the fund has survived many crashes in the past...

ALL,

I plan on increasing my ROTH IRA. Any suggestion?What I am looking for is a fund that has been around (10-20 years),must be aggressive (I think I have time in my side), and not too much expenses. I don't mind paying loads as long as they balance out later and fund is a good performer. I am also looking for long term...

Additionally, how the heck do I give mana to people who are very knowledable and very helpful... Thanks....:D

pyriel, don't know what to tell ya, i'm not a buy and holder, sort of pointless to me. If you want a good mutual fund to invest in and not worry about, you might want to seek a "professional mutual fund" guy, as far as I know, the real estate funds are probablyl the best at this point. But I really don't know.

pyriel wrote:
mlk_man wrote:
Rod wrote:

That's really great. If you don't mind me asking, what mutual fund are you with?





Profunds ultra and ultrashort funds. There are different ones, take your pic.

Just pic wisely................:^

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/fam/profunds.html

Milk_man,

Ok, I followed the website above and I got scared. I am so wet behind the ear that I wouldn't know which one is which. No wonder you said "Just pic wisely" I guess, I am looking for a fund that I can just contribute monthly and not worry too much about it(who am I kidding?). Ups and down in the market doesn't really bother me especially, if the fund has survived many crashes in the past...

ALL,

I plan on increasing my ROTH IRA. Any suggestion?What I am looking for is a fund that has been around (10-20 years),must be aggressive (I think I have time in my side), and not too much expenses. I don't mind paying loads as long as they balance out later and fund is a good performer. I am also looking for long term...

Additionally, how the heck do I give mana to people who are very knowledable and very helpful... Thanks....:D

Pyriel,

What are your goals? How old are you? Are you a buy/hold type of guy/timer, what is you strategy?

The profunds are good for one thing and one thing only: timing! Mike seems to have a good "system" which I don't know any of the particulars and he can explain, but it is probably dealing with market conditions, etc, a form of "timing". Go to www.profunds.com (http://www.profunds.com) , go to prices/performance and click on performance data. You will see that all the Ultra Profunds have neg returns since their inception. That's not good for a buy/holder. Now again, I don't know Mike's particulars, but he is set up to get in and out of these Ultra pro funds with his timing "system". If the system is halfway right most of the time (which it seems to be) he makes a killing. I would not use these funds for long term buy/holding. That's my opinion. You will lose money this way

If you want a good buy/hold strategy I have a real eye opener of an article. go to

http://www.fundadvice.com/FEhtml/BHStrategies/0108/0108a.htmland check this out. I have no vested interest in this site. They stess for buy/holders the asset classes (small cap, large cap, international, growth vs. value, etc) to be involved with versus the funds themselves and the timing. This is just a suggestion if you don't want to follow a "system". I am in no way inferring it is better.

My suggestion:

look into Mike's system for your personal IRA's, he uses Scottrade and the Profunds. Paper trade it (practice on paper) for a little and then go for it. He does post his buy/sell signals under his accountor:

Check out the buy/hold article above and diversify into those 8-9 different asset classes or:

take the advice of someone else on the board.

Only trying to help, I don't have all the answers.

Joel

jgpalmerdds wrote:
The profunds are good for one thing and one thing only: timing! Mike seems to have a good "system" which I don't know any of the particulars and he can explain, but it is probably dealing with market conditions, etc, a form of "timing". Go to http://www.profunds.com , go to prices/performance and click on performance data. You will see that all the Ultra Profunds have neg returns since their inception. That's not good for a buy/holder. Now again, I don't know Mike's particulars, but he is set up to get in and out of these Ultra pro funds with his timing "system". If the system is halfway right most of the time (which it seems to be) he makes a killing. I would not use these funds for long term buy/holding. That's my opinion. You will lose money this way

If you want a good buy/hold strategy I have a real eye opener of an article. go to

http://www.fundadvice.com/FEhtml/BHStrategies/0108/0108a.htmland check this out. I have no vested interest in this site. They stess for buy/holders the asset classes (small cap, large cap, international, growth vs. value, etc) to be involved with versus the funds themselves and the timing. This is just a suggestion if you don't want to follow a "system". I am in no way inferring it is better.

My suggestion:

look into Mike's system for your personal IRA's, he uses Scottrade and the Profunds. Paper trade it (practice on paper) for a little and then go for it. He does post his buy/sell signals under his accountor:

Check out the buy/hold article above and diversify into those 8-9 different asset classes or:

take the advice of someone else on the board.

Only trying to help, I don't have all the answers.

Joel

Joel, if you have been following along, you should have read that I have the backing of a CEO with me now. That being said, I have more money to "play" with now instead oh having to wait to save mine up.

You should know better than anyone that you can't "play" the mutual funds like we do our TSP funds, just doesn't work.........Yes I have a strategy for the mutuals, but this is a govt. funds site. If you want my advice on mutuals, it'll cost ya. :P

BTW, did you notice that the timing service you use to be with advertises on this site? Interesting huh?...............

Gee Wiz, Mike:

Can I go out and play, now?

Who told you about Scottrade and the Profunds? That's what I thought. And no, I'm not following your every post or anyone else's for that matter. Sometimes we "peasants" have to be updated a little with snide comments from our investing "elders", especially since we don't live on this site.

Lastly, let me know when you and the CEO go "public" on the exchange with this mutual fund thing and maybe I'll be the first in line to sign up.

No need to replybecause:

1-you're ignoring me, remember?

2- I'm done with this site, so I won't see it anyway

remember- Matthew 6:19-21, Romans 1:16, Matthew 7:22-23

I'm out

jgpalmerdds

[tsptalk]

:@

jgpalmerdds wrote:
Gee Wiz, Mike:

Can I go out and play, now?

Who told you about Scottrade and the Profunds? That's what I thought. And no, I'm not following your every post or anyone else's for that matter. Sometimes we "peasants" have to be updated a little with snide comments from our investing "elders", especially since we don't live on this site.

Lastly, let me know when you and the CEO go "public" on the exchange with this mutual fund thing and maybe I'll be the first in line to sign up.

No need to replybecause:

1-you're ignoring me, remember?

2- I'm done with this site, so I won't see it anyway

remember- Matthew 6:19-21, Romans 1:16, Matthew 7:22-23

I'm out

jgpalmerdds

Testy, testy....................Isn't there a verse in Matthew that says "Don't pray in false churches"? This look like a church to you?

[pyriel]

Thanks guys for all your help. There are lots of good info presented and I really want to try some of them later. But for now, I am a buy and hold person. The reason for this is that I just can't devote as much time as I want it to be with stocks. With my job and my business and raising our kids, it takes alot out of me. Additionally, if I really want to time the market, I have to wake up at midnight to get in and out. I live on Guam and as you can all see I am like 18+ hours ahead of everyone.

I know, I know, I know that buy and hold and usually not the best thing for a person to do, but I wish I can just duplicate myself so that I can do all these things I wanted to do like market timing.

I hope I didn't start something between you guys. I'd like to apologize in advance if I did.:cool:

[Rod]

You just do what you feel comfortable with.:)

BTW, no need to apologize. Those rants are now commonplace in the forum, and no one's fault but their own.

God Bless:^

[tsptalk]

pyriel wrote:
I know, I know, I know that buy and hold and usually not the best thing for a person to do

Actually, it might be... for the average investor. To do what some of us heredo, you have to be willing to put in some time and that certainly doesn't guarantee better results. So consider buy and hold in a diversified account.You'll sleep better. :)

[Mike]

Buy and hold is boring. Don't you want to be cool like us? :D

[Rolo]

hehehehe, Mike.

Investing is not so Black-and-White. You can buy and hold ("Fire and Forget"), you can day-trade, or you can find something in-between that fits your time and inclination. It's dynamic, so you can shift styles whenever you like.

For my IRA's, I spent about two weeks researching funds and found quite a few excellent ones that I like. I only trade one fund for another if I have a compelling reason to, which is onlyeveryseveral months, like when a fund is lagging, I find a sector that is performing very well, or when the market takes a dive and I go to a junk bond/contrarian mix. I really like RSFunds (RSPFX, RSNRX, RSCOX right now, and I am holding RSPFX as it is now closed).

Spend time on MorningStar.com and Kiplinger.com to learn about investing and to research funds.

[pyriel]

Mike wrote:
Buy and hold is boring. Don't you want to be cool like us? :D


Hehehe:dude:AsI write this, I just put my baby to sleep. I'd like to be cool but I also want some sleep:shock:. Tom is right, boring as it might be, at least I am getting some sleep ( I really need it). :zz Someday, when my kids are not keeping me up, I will take you on with timing the market. So you better get some rest because once I get started you'd never get rid off me so easily:@. I'll be bugging you to death to teach me what you guys do...:#

[sailor]

Milk man

I'd like to tap into some of your knowledge regarding your 4 times the TSP returns in your roth account if you'd be willing to share. I'm just becoming a more active trader myself. There seems to be a huge (greater now than has been for years) divide between the advice of the Bulls and the Bears, so unfortunately am drawn into inactivity in the middle.

Help.

Thanks!!!!

Sailor

May as well go to Vermont and tap into a tree and get sap...you will be further ahead.

Buy and hope does not work. Simple timing system below with great results. Now is the time to be fully invested in the STOCK FUNDS!






Actual Entry and Exit Dates : DOW












BEST SIX MONTHS STRATEGY + TIMING

MACD
Worst 6 Months


MACD
Best 6 Months


Signal
May-October*
Investing

Signal
November-April*
Investing

Date
DJIA
% Change
10,000

Date
DJIA
% Change
10,000

22-Apr-50
213.90
7.3
10,730

14-Nov-50
229.54
13.3
11,330

10-May-51
260.07
0.1
10,741

13-Nov-51
260.41
1.9
11,545

5-Apr-52
265.44
1.4
10,891

31-Oct-52
269.23
2.1
11,788

30-Apr-53
274.75
0.2
10,913

23-Oct-53
275.34
17.1
13,804

14-May-54
322.50
13.5
12,386

5-Nov-54
366.00
16.3
16,054

29-Apr-55
425.65
7.7
13,340

21-Oct-55
458.47
13.1
18,157

9-Apr-56
518.52
-6.8
12,433

8-Oct-56
483.38
2.8
18,665

9-May-57
496.76
-12.3
10,904

29-Oct-57
435.76
4.9
19,580

16-May-58
457.10
17.3
12,790

6-Oct-58
536.29
16.7
22,849

5-May-59
625.90
1.6
12,994

6-Oct-59
636.06
-3.1
22,141

22-Apr-60
616.32
-4.9
12,358

7-Oct-60
586.42
16.9
25,883

21-Apr-61
685.26
2.9
12,716

9-Oct-61
705.42
-1.5
25,495

23-Apr-62
694.61
-15.3
10,771

10-Oct-62
588.14
22.4
31,205

1-May-63
719.67
4.3
11,234

18-Oct-63
750.60
9.6
34,201

14-Apr-64
822.95
6.7
11,986

9-Nov-64
878.08
6.2
36,322

19-May-65
932.12
2.6
12,298

26-Oct-65
956.32
-2.5
35,414

2-May-66
931.95
-16.4
10,281

17-Oct-66
778.89
14.3
40,478

12-May-67
890.03
-2.1
10,065

21-Nov-67
870.95
5.5
42,704

8-May-68
918.86
3.4
10,407

14-Oct-68
949.96
0.2
42,789

21-May-69
951.78
-11.9
9,169

16-Oct-69
838.77
-6.7
39,923

15-Apr-70
782.60
-1.4
9,040

6-Nov-70
771.97
20.8
48,226

3-May-71
932.41
-11.0
8,046

29-Nov-71
829.73
15.4
55,653

24-Apr-72
957.48
-0.6
7,998

25-Oct-72
951.38
-1.4
54,874

26-Apr-73
937.76
-11.0
7,118

11-Dec-73
834.18
0.1
54,929

26-Apr-74
834.64
-22.4
5,524

10-Oct-74
648.08
28.2
70,419

1-May-75
830.96
0.1
5,529

17-Oct-75
832.18
18.5
83,447

5-May-76
986.46
-3.4
5,341

28-Oct-76
952.63
-3.0
80,943

27-Apr-77
923.76
-11.4
4,732

31-Oct-77
818.35
0.5
81,348

9-May-78
822.07
-4.5
4,519

14-Nov-78
785.26
9.3
88,913

17-Apr-79
857.93
-5.3
4,280

5-Nov-79
812.63
7.0
95,137

20-Jun-80
869.71
9.3
4,678

10-Oct-80
950.68
4.7
99,609

1-May-81
995.59
-14.6
3,995

14-Oct-81
850.65
0.4
100,007

4-May-82
854.45
15.5
4,614

8-Oct-82
986.85
23.5
123,509

13-May-83
1218.75
2.5
4,729

21-Oct-83
1248.88
-7.3
114,493

11-May-84
1157.14
3.3
4,886

17-Oct-84
1195.89
3.9
118,958

1-May-85
1242.05
7.0
5,228

4-Oct-85
1328.74
38.1
164,281

25-Apr-86
1835.57
-2.8
5,081

6-Oct-86
1784.45
28.2
210,608

13-Apr-87
2287.07
-14.9
4,324

4-Nov-87
1945.29
3.0
216,926

10-May-88
2003.65
6.1
4,588

12-Oct-88
2126.24
11.8
242,523

8-May-89
2376.47
9.8
5,037

14-Nov-89
2610.25
3.3
250,527

20-Apr-90
2695.95
-6.7
4,700

22-Oct-90
2516.09
15.8
290,110

26-Apr-91
2912.38
4.8
4,926

17-Oct-91
3053.00
11.3
322,892

11-May-92
3397.58
-6.2
4,620

21-Oct-92
3187.10
6.6
344,203

26-Apr-93
3398.37
5.5
4,874

7-Oct-93
3583.63
5.6
363,478

13-Jun-94
3783.12
3.7
5,055

17-Oct-94
3923.93
13.1
411,094

23-May-95
4436.44
7.2
5,418

23-Oct-95
4755.48
16.7
479,747

17-Apr-96
5549.93
9.2
5,917

17-Oct-96
6059.20
21.9
584,811

27-May-97
7383.41
3.6
6,130

18-Nov-97
7650.82
18.5
693,001

24-Apr-98
9064.62
-12.4
5,370

13-Oct-98
7938.14
39.9
969,509

13-May-99
11107.19
-6.4
5,026

20-Oct-99
10392.36
5.1
1,018,954

13-Apr-00
10923.55
-6.0
4,725

23-Oct-00
10271.72
5.4
1,073,978

11-May-01
10821.31
-17.3
3,907

2-Oct-01
8950.59
15.8
1,243,666

1-Apr-02
10362.70
-25.2
2,923

2-Oct-02
7755.61
6.0
1,318,286

10-Apr-03
8221.33
16.4
3,402

3-Oct-03
9572.31
7.8
1,421,112

20-Apr-04
10314.50
-0.9
3,371

4-Oct-04
10216.54





55-Year Loss
($6,629)



54-Year Gain
$1,411,112



sailor wrote:

Milk man

I'd like to tap into some of your knowledge regarding your 4 times the TSP returns in your roth account if you'd be willing to share. I'm just becoming a more active trader myself. There seems to be a huge (greater now than has been for years) divide between the advice of the Bulls and the Bears, so unfortunately am drawn into inactivity in the middle.

Help.

Thanks!!!!

sailor wrote:
Milk man

I'd like to tap into some of your knowledge regarding your 4 times the TSP returns in your roth account if you'd be willing to share. I'm just becoming a more active trader myself. There seems to be a huge (greater now than has been for years) divide between the advice of the Bulls and the Bears, so unfortunately am drawn into inactivity in the middle.

Help.

Thanks!!!!

Please forgive MT, he was just released from the odd fellows home...........

Not going in too deep into my system, you basically make your extra money by being able to play the "inverse" funds when the market is going down. You can also play 2X and 2X inverse funds which affords you the opportunity to make twice as much profit, but also twice as much loss. I do have to play differently than I do with my TSP because you can't keep getting into and outof the funds every day like we can with TSP. Just play the trends and you'll be fine.............

Good luck,

M_M

A system from 1950 (that works).

November to April be fully invested. May to October be fully out.

However if you sell the last week of January you would even have done better. Of course it is boring to be out of the market February to November so you buy on the downtrends and sale at the peaks...like "we" not MM did this year.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/1y/_/_dji.gif

mlk_man wrote:

sailor wrote:
Milk man

I'd like to tap into some of your knowledge regarding your 4 times the TSP returns in your roth account if you'd be willing to share. I'm just becoming a more active trader myself. There seems to be a huge (greater now than has been for years) divide between the advice of the Bulls and the Bears, so unfortunately am drawn into inactivity in the middle.

Help.

Thanks!!!!

Please forgive MT, he was just released from the odd fellows home...........

Not going in too deep into my system, you basically make your extra money by being able to play the "inverse" funds when the market is going down. You can also play 2X and 2X inverse funds which affords you the opportunity to make twice as much profit, but also twice as much loss. I do have to play differently than I do with my TSP because you can't keep getting into and outof the funds every day like we can with TSP. Just play the trends and you'll be fine.............

Good luck,

M_M