PDA

View Full Version : How About a POLITICS subforum



Miss_Piggy
11-05-2008, 08:51 PM
Tom,
All the political discussions we have had doesn't really fall under the idea of a "Lounge."
How about having a thread titled, POLITICS, under "Miscellaneous Stuff?"
I see useful exchanges of ideas and conversations developing about Obama's decisions, appointees and other matters. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/thinking/thinking.gif

Show-me
11-06-2008, 05:59 AM
Eeewwww. Politics and religion invoke some very serious emotions, not just from me. Do we really want to test those waters fully? I like a good fight but this may not be the place as we already know how polarized the election was. lol

KevinD
11-06-2008, 06:43 AM
If there were a politics sub-forum and you don't like it...don't go in there. That way all the political talk is out of the other sub-forums.

I like it.

Show-me
11-06-2008, 06:51 AM
If there were a politics sub-forum and you don't like it...don't go in there. That way all the political talk is out of the other sub-forums.

I like it.

Kevin,

It's like a car wreak, you can't look away. Plus, I am a moderator and would have to chase all of the post that members would flag because they feel they are inappropriate. I don't mind being moderator I do not like being baby sitter.

Eventually someone will say something to someone that will be offensive in their opinion or a personal attack will happen out of frustration.

So do we allow any language or comment in this thread and tell people if they do not like what they see go away and don't come back? Even in the election thread there were complaints and the title of the thread warned you about the content.

nnuut
11-06-2008, 07:05 AM
Should not be a forum or thread that allows improper language. That's just asking for trouble, where do you set the limits of propriety? :nuts: Damnit!!:laugh:

KevinD
11-06-2008, 07:56 AM
Kevin,

It's like a car wreak, you can't look away. Plus, I am a moderator and would have to chase all of the post that members would flag because they feel they are inappropriate. I don't mind being moderator I do not like being baby sitter.

Eventually someone will say something to someone that will be offensive in their opinion or a personal attack will happen out of frustration.

So do we allow any language or comment in this thread and tell people if they do not like what they see go away and don't come back? Even in the election thread there were complaints and the title of the thread warned you about the content.


Let Miss Piggy moderate it? [shrug]

























Please don't ban me...

Tankrat37
11-06-2008, 10:22 AM
I like it, but since we are Americans, it would have to be moderated. Go censorship! If this were almost any other country, there wouldn't be a problem with it. :suspicious:

Miss_Piggy
11-06-2008, 10:27 AM
Let Miss Piggy moderate it? [shrug]
Please don't ban me...
You making fun of me? http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/forum/avatars/Cute-Baby-Boy-Crying.gif

KevinD
11-06-2008, 11:16 AM
Hey, it was your idea...and I agreed.

jon
11-06-2008, 12:53 PM
Alert- internet financial/personal data scam at some Obama acceptance speech link. See story following: http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/11/uab_warns_of_obama_cyber_scam.html

Re politics subforum, perhaps Ms. Piggy may have had some parameters or particulars in mind for scope and direction.

While it might be beneficial for local citizens to engage in discussions/forums regarding hopeful improvements in the broad range of American public policy, what's the chance of that happening? The topic sounds so dry, it probably turns off 90%, ok 95% of the public. Was it like this years prior to writing the American Constitution? Underlying Patrick Henry, Tom Paine, the Federalist Papers, Franklin, Adams, Jefferson, etc was it the same old, same old with the rich and powerful southern landowners and northern businessmen making all the decisions, no matter what the public discussion was?

To motivate citizens to action, doesn't it normally require a well publicised issue that really upsets the public - a tea tax, a war based on a lie? Even then what are the best ways to constructively focus that concern or anger? Amazingly, despite the ending administration's lies and National Socialist leanings, there has been only muted concern and a few mild and muted protests. Can the polls be right, that almost 30% of our population still like and support Bush and his policies?

Beside the Berkeley, Madison, Santa Monica's how many local communities have venues/ groups to discuss and research existing public policy or other public concerns? I suppose an obvious answer is asking, how do any existing groups, charities, businesses get started-by highly committed, disciplined and motiviated citizens. Can the enthusiasm for "change" generated by the last election be translated or realized into more specific and substantive demonstration projects or proposals across the country? As far as Obama is concerned, has this process already occurred, or should it?

Is hope just another word for nothing left to lose?

tsptalk
11-06-2008, 01:50 PM
I will think about adding a political subforum, but one of our moderators would have to agree to keep an eye on it. I'll see if anyone is willing.

To tankrat who said:
Go censorship! If this were almost any other country, there wouldn't be a problem with it.
You have to understand we deal with people reporting posts all the time that they are offended by (including miss piggy).

It's not the content that we would be worried about, it's the bashing and sometimes offensive remarks aimed at other members and/or political leaders during the heat of battle. If you were the target of these remarks you would not appreciate it and would likely complain or retaliate - and that's when the forum would fall apart. We are not new at this.

There is a reason that this forum is one of the most civil and respected online, and we'd like to keep it that way. That doesn't mean we won't create a political forum, but understand that moderating is not meant to censor content, but rather a way of keeping things on a civil and professional level.

I will see if we can find someone to moderate a political forum. I would prefer that it was one of our current moderators (spaf :)) but I would consider others. It would have to be someone we all respect, trust, is not overly partisan, and has the time to spend on something like this.

Miss_Piggy
11-06-2008, 02:19 PM
......You have to understand we deal with people reporting posts all the time that they are offended by (including miss piggy).....
I take umbrage at you mentioning my name as a complaintant. I thought it was anonymous.

In addition, my complaint had nothing to do with politics and I had no part in initiating what was just someone who took an opportunity to make a dirty joke in public that happened to be on our political thread.

Since the issue has become public I don't mind repeating the dirty joke so members can judge for themselves. It went something like this: "We know baldheaded men get more head"

Sorry but I just felt I needed to defend myself here. It's all Buster's fault - just kidding.

tsptalk
11-06-2008, 03:23 PM
I take umbrage at you mentioning my name as a complaintant. I thought it was anonymous.
It's not our practice to divulge that info, but I had a point in mentioning you, and it was not meant to be negative. We have had dozens of reported posts over the years and yes, you had one, and we acted quickly on it. No biggie. My point was that what offends one person may not offend another.

You have recently started several controversial threads that can become difficult to moderate (and that's OK). Prior to the election, your signature that referred to prosecuting Bush for murder could have been considered offensive to some, but it was a sexual joke that offended you (I only mention it because you already did). So by reporting a post, you have shown that even you have a limit to what you believe is acceptable. Your complaint was justified, so we acted. Personally, I find a sexual joke less offensive than berating the president, but that's why we all have to be careful. We never know who might be offended by something we say.

So the point of my post was to defend ourselves against being accused of censorship. I am not censoring you or those who want a political thread. I was just making the point as to why it may not be in our best interest to create a political thread, because things can get out of hand when talking about controversial subjects and some people can be offended, and you never know who that person will be.

Silverbird
11-06-2008, 03:41 PM
Not sure about a Politics subforum. What is it's purpose? If it is for predictions of cabinet members, congressional manuvering? Or is it for arguing policy? Giving TSPtalk members heads up and insight into policies? This gets a little tricky as depending on your job, your insight into policies may run very strongly in one direction, which may bias your overall viewpoint. And naturally, what postings you put in may reflect personal bias (yes I'm a Blue Dog, and I'm going to rant about off budget spending, and think paying for it - you know, Taxes? is being responsible).

It was inevitable we would end up with a folder for the election, passions and predictions ran very hot. But politics as a major subcategory...not sure on that one.

Rod
11-06-2008, 04:01 PM
After reading the replies, it just may be a good idea to keep a politics thread out of TSP Talk.

If someone wants to talk politics, which usually degenerates into an argument, as does debating religion, then simply go some place else.

I sincerely doubt when Tom created TSP Talk that debating politics was on the agenda. So, why start now.

ATCJeff
11-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Tom,
All the political discussions we have had doesn't really fall under the idea of a "Lounge."
How about having a thread titled, POLITICS, under "Miscellaneous Stuff?"
I see useful exchanges of ideas and conversations developing about Obama's decisions, appointees and other matters. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/thinking/thinking.gif


Eeewwww. Politics and religion invoke some very serious emotions, not just from me. Do we really want to test those waters fully? I like a good fight but this may not be the place as we already know how polarized the election was. lol

I agree with Show-me.

It's time for this nation to heal and support our president-elect. I would hate to see someone leave this site over politics. This site is about TSP. We have some very talented people that contribute daily, I would hate to lose any of them over something we can refrain from discussing.

My 2 cents....

Miss_Piggy
11-06-2008, 04:05 PM
It's not our practice to divulge that info, but I had a point in mentioning you, and it was not meant to be negative. We have had dozens of reported posts over the years and yes, you had one, and we acted quickly on it. No biggie. My point was that what offends one person may not offend another.

You have recently started several controversial threads that can become difficult to moderate (and that's OK). Prior to the election, your signature that referred to prosecuting Bush for murder could have been considered offensive to some, but it was a sexual joke that offended you (I only mention it because you already did). So by reporting a post, you have shown that even you have a limit to what you believe is acceptable. Your complaint was justified, so we acted. Personally, I find a sexual joke less offensive than berating the president, but that's why we all have to be careful. We never know who might be offended by something we say.

So the point of my post was to defend ourselves against being accused of censorship. I am not censoring you or those who want a political thread. I was just making the point as to why it may not be in our best interest to create a political thread, because things can get out of hand when talking about controversial subjects and some people can be offended, and you never know who that person will be.
Well, I guess you made a fair case http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/crazy/grimace.gif

But equating a political statement with a dirty sexual joke - I'll have to think about that one. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/thinking/Umm.gif

Anyway, I'm not that invested in a political thread - just thought it might be a good idea. I know it was an emotional thread and I think we did pretty good by it (minus the dirty sexual jokes - lol)

nnuut
11-06-2008, 04:13 PM
I agree it's over, let's not continue this liberals against the conservatives stuff, it will never end!! I'm sick of it!! 5036

ATCJeff
11-06-2008, 04:21 PM
Well, I guess you made a fair case http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/crazy/grimace.gif

But equating a political statement with a dirty sexual joke - I'll have to think about that one. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/thinking/Umm.gif



I would not use the word "equating." The point was different people have different tolerances when it comes to language or view points. A great example would be Roe v. Wade. It is one of the most controversial and politically significant cases in U.S. Supreme Court history. I promise if I started a thread on this topic, it would lead to many problems. Problems that have nothing to do with our TSP accounts.

I don't think there is a moderator on this site that would be willing to take on the responsibility of a thread on politics. If there is someone, I would want the chance to vet his or her political view point to determine if there is a bias. See where this is going........

tsptalk
11-06-2008, 04:33 PM
Anyway, I'm not that invested in a political thread - just thought it might be a good idea. I know it was an emotional thread and I think we did pretty good by it (minus the dirty sexual jokes - lol)
It was a good idea, but it just may be too much to handle right now. Let's keep these type of threads in the lounge and see how it goes.

Now, did you hear the one about the priest, the rabbi, and the blonde... :D

Show-me
11-06-2008, 04:40 PM
Not sure about a Politics subforum. What is it's purpose? If it is for predictions of cabinet members, congressional manuvering? Or is it for arguing policy? Giving TSPtalk members heads up and insight into policies? This gets a little tricky as depending on your job, your insight into policies may run very strongly in one direction, which may bias your overall viewpoint. And naturally, what postings you put in may reflect personal bias (yes I'm a Blue Dog, and I'm going to rant about off budget spending, and think paying for it - you know, Taxes? is being responsible).

It was inevitable we would end up with a folder for the election, passions and predictions ran very hot. But politics as a major subcategory...not sure on that one.

Amen Sister!

ATCJeff
11-06-2008, 04:46 PM
Amen Sister!

That's it. I've taken all I can stand. I'm so offended that you did not offer a "Amen Brother":D

Show-me
11-06-2008, 04:48 PM
That's it. I've taken all I can stand. I'm so offended that you did not offer a "Amen Brother":D

From one Brother to another AMEN!!! :D

Rod
11-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Now, did you hear the one about the priest, the rabbi, and the blonde... :D

Isn't that the one about the blonde giving the bald priest and bald rabbi...

Nevermind... ;)

ATCJeff
11-06-2008, 04:50 PM
Timeout for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rod
11-06-2008, 04:51 PM
Timeout for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D:ban::D

Minnow
11-06-2008, 04:53 PM
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e206/merakoh/timeout_blog.jpg

You heard him... time to sit and think about what you did!!!

Miss_Piggy
11-06-2008, 04:59 PM
..... See where this is going........
I know exactly where you are going.

But from my very personal point of view: I have been participating on this forum for years. It wasn’t until recently with the political posts that I felt I could express my individual, and yes, controversial views while finding a few members that shared my ideas and thoughts. I began to feel less of a lone wolf. Prior to that, I would have been run off the board because so many members thought differently. I had wanted to continue the political posts so I could continue to express my views without being mocked and finding at the same time others who might feel similar.

I guess I'm saying it hasn't been a very friendly nor diverse board "from my point of view."

tsptalk
11-06-2008, 05:37 PM
I guess I'm saying it hasn't been a very friendly nor diverse board "from my point of view."
Not friendly? :blink: Invite some friends. :D The board is open to everyone but perhaps its content (TSP) attracts more of a certain type of individual? Not sure.

We're running a business so to me, the more the merrier - but remember that this is a TSP site and our goal is not to make sure everyone's political views are shared equally. We just want to help each other increase and protect our TSP accounts, be us black, white, male, female, athiest, religious, liberal, conservative, gay, straight, etc. All market returns are earned equally. The rest is just noise. :)

Miss_Piggy
11-06-2008, 05:59 PM
Not friendly? :blink: Invite some friends. :D The board is open to everyone but perhaps its content (TSP) attracts more of a certain type of individual? Not sure.

We're running a business so to me, the more the merrier - but remember that this is a TSP site and our goal is not to make sure everyone's political views are shared equally. We just want to help each other increase and protect our TSP accounts, be us black, white, male, female, athiest, religious, liberal, conservative, gay, straight, etc. All market returns are earned equally. The rest is just noise. :)
Like I said, “from my point of view,” – until the recent political posts I referred to above.
Of course, you Tom, and the moderators have been responsive and polite.
I was referring to “friendly” in terms of most members, not all by any means, willing to accept diverse points of view.


SiGZblapKic



PS I know you're not saying what I'm talking about is just noise here, right? http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/sad/cryintissue.gif

Miss_Piggy
11-06-2008, 06:28 PM
I'll just be quiet for now on and see how things go. Thanks Tom for the interaction.
Didn't mean to offend - just meant to express myself which I think I did more than I should have.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/happy/cloudwave.gif

Show-me
11-06-2008, 06:32 PM
I find that many of us agree and disagree but are part of the same family. I love the people here, all of the people here. I find the forum a level playing ground because as humans we are flawed by our visual perceptions of people. Here we can not see black, white, male, female, Christian, Muslim, gay, or straight. I don't care what demographic you are from I just want "us" to make money or in my case loose as little as possible.

There are many things we can disagree on, but lets focus on the things we have in common the most. President-Elect Obama is my President and while I did not vote for him I am proud of him and my countrymen. Does the word countrymen cover the women folk too?

Tomorrow is a new day and we will prevail.

CountryBoy
11-07-2008, 06:57 AM
Whew, Let's just make some money now or at least preserve what we have until this market turns around. Oh, Tom can PM me with the rest of that joke. :laugh:

CB

Silverbird
11-07-2008, 07:57 AM
That's it. I've taken all I can stand. I'm so offended that you did not offer a "Amen Brother":DI assume that "amen" earlier was to me, and I'm a girrly Bird. I'll just spread it around. Hello All you guys out there, with a special Wave to ATCJeff: Amen Brother! :D

ATCJeff
11-07-2008, 09:41 AM
I assume that "amen" earlier was to me, and I'm a girrly Bird. I'll just spread it around. Hello All you guys out there, with a special Wave to ATCJeff: Amen Brother! :D

Thanks

James48843
11-07-2008, 08:54 PM
Hey- I'm among the top offenders- but you know what?

I love each and every one of you. You're family.

Each family has their own quirks- kind of like the Uncle who you only see at Thanksgiving- who has silly habits- but you still love them anyway, cause they are family.

All of you- I won't mention any names because if I leave anyone out - well, I would be sorry. But all of you are family. And I enjoy a great debate. Makes me think hard about what I believe, and why.

And in the end, we are ALL - A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S. Part of this great nation of ours. Proud to be part of the mix- from the far right to the far left, and everyone in between.

Thank you, Family members. L;-)

Show-me
11-08-2008, 07:15 AM
That's right James, one big happy dysfunctional American family. lol You guys are the best!

CountryBoy
11-08-2008, 07:22 AM
Hey- I'm among the top offenders- but you know what?

I love each and every one of you. You're family.

Each family has their own quirks- kind of like the Uncle who you only see at Thanksgiving- who has silly habits- but you still love them anyway, cause they are family.

All of you- I won't mention any names because if I leave anyone out - well, I would be sorry. But all of you are family. And I enjoy a great debate. Makes me think hard about what I believe, and why.

And in the end, we are ALL - A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S. Part of this great nation of ours. Proud to be part of the mix- from the far right to the far left, and everyone in between.

Thank you, Family members. L;-)

I couldn't agree more James, we are family warts and all. :D

CB

ATCJeff
11-08-2008, 09:17 AM
Ah family,

I need some money. Who has a few Ben's they can part with?:D

XL-entLady
11-09-2008, 08:54 AM
Good morning! I'm back from my project, and note with interest (and a little trepidation) that we can't leave this subject and go on to others. So I’ll add the best political information that I’ve seen lately. I hope you all enjoy the read! :)

Lady

Kirby: Open letter to our new president-elect
By Robert Kirby
Tribune Columnist

Salt Lake Tribune
Dear Mr. President:
Congratulations on your victory at the polls. You are now the leader of the free world whether anybody likes it or not. Frankly, I give you about a week to figure out that you don't.

As a participant in the process that put you in office, I am writing to offer you the benefit of the common man's advice. Men don't come more common than me. Ask my wife.

First, please do not let the victory go to your head. You aren't smart as you think you are. In fact, you aren't even as smart as your supporters claim. We're all going to find that out in the next four years, so there's no point in pretending otherwise.

It doesn't take a genius to be president. I offer as proof any number of dolts we have elected to the country's highest office. So please remember that the trust we've placed in you isn't necessarily a compliment.

The truth is that most Americans could do your job. They could even be good presidents if they remembered to keep things simple. And that's what I'm writing to you about now.

Most Americans know what needs to be done. We learned it growing up, or at least those of us with decent parents did. Presumably, that includes you. Here's what my parents taught me that would also work in the White House.

ENVIRONMENT -- If you make a mess, you have to clean it up. It doesn't matter how long ago you made the mess, or who else helped, you still have to clean it up--even if it takes all day.

FOREIGN POLICY -- You are not the most important person in the world. If you think you are, you need to be taken down a notch or two.

EDUCATION -- Stupidity will always cost more than tuition.

NATIONAL DEFENSE -- Bullies always have to look over their shoulders. Be strong but don't pick on your sisters, or your father will kick your ass when he gets home.

CRIME -- A punishment equal to or worse than the deed is the most effective way of remembering not to do it again.

ECONOMY -- If you want something, go earn the money for it. If you borrow more than you can repay, you deserve to have your thumbs broke.

HEALTH CARE -- Eat right, work hard, don't smoke, brush your teeth, wear your seat belt, and look both ways before crossing the street. If it's not your fault, we'll help you pay to fix it.

There's more, but I think you get the point. Our problems aren't that complicated. Your presidency shouldn't be either.
Best of luck
Robert Kirby
Salt Lake Tribune

Rod
11-09-2008, 09:20 AM
This thread will not become a politics sub-forum.

But, if you want to discuss certain issues, please simply create a thread in The Lounge... and play fair.

Thank you.