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Miss_Piggy
10-04-2008, 10:30 AM
Any one else out there that shares my sense of humor and thinks this funny? Warning this might offend.


Bill Maher on the Daily Show


mQlicDw_unA

tsptalk
10-04-2008, 10:53 AM
He is funny and I do want to see his movie - but the problem I have with him is that he "wants to live in a progressive European nation"?? Well, there are plenty of progressive European nations that he can choose from. Our forefathers left their socialistic european life to start anew in a free nation, one based on the people, not the government. And I do see the irony in that this site is geared toward government employees. :)

James48843
10-04-2008, 01:23 PM
Sorry-

I can't support Bill Maher's view of the world.

I used to be agnostic, before I had an encounter with God.

I can tell you today that He is real.

You can believe, or not. That's your choice. After all, this is America.

But I can't support Maher's position.

I'll pray for him instead.

(P.S.- and I am not a Palin/McCain supporter.)

Show-me
10-04-2008, 01:29 PM
I rather be a Christian and be wrong than a agnostic or atheist and be wrong. Things that make ya go hmmmm.

Buster
10-04-2008, 01:38 PM
The Spark that started all this, came from the Hand of God..how it goes after that, is up to us..

McDuck
10-04-2008, 02:47 PM
Miss Peggy, Would tell how you came to be an agnostic?

KevinD
10-04-2008, 02:54 PM
She doesn't know. Get it? She doesn't know. LOL!!! :D

I crack myself up. :laugh:

Birchtree
10-04-2008, 03:09 PM
I'm an agnostic. That's just the way it is.

Callme_CO
10-04-2008, 04:38 PM
I completely agree with Show-me I would rather live a good (faithbased life) and be wrong then to be forever in damnation. I respect everyones beliefs and respect everyone on this board and consider you all friends regardless of religious or political beliefs. :)

ChemEng
10-04-2008, 04:39 PM
There are many, many flaws to Pascal's Wager to be considered a valid argument.


I rather be a Christian and be wrong than a agnostic or atheist and be wrong. Things that make ya go hmmmm.

Show-me
10-04-2008, 04:58 PM
There are many, many flaws to Pascal's Wager to be considered a valid argument.

Perhaps, but we won't know with 100% certainty until it is too late. Good luck!

Buster
10-04-2008, 11:16 PM
The Spark that started all this, came from the Hand of God..how it goes after that, is up to us..

And I firmly believe we are not the only ones God is looking after either.

Buster
10-04-2008, 11:19 PM
I'm an agnostic. That's just the way it is.


You need to read this book.. http://www.hardcoverdeals.com/rel/v2_viewupc.php?storenr=334&upc=0765316765&affnr=-2610

Guest2
10-04-2008, 11:42 PM
I find Religion has a lot in common with Governmental Training Programs.
Ultimately, each one of us with be faced with the same conflicts;


REALITY VS. EXPECTATIONS VS. TRAINING



:)

Mike
10-05-2008, 12:47 AM
I'm an agnostic but don't really like Maher. You could make a movie about any group of people and find enough idiots in that group to make fun of them in order to make a larger point about the group. That doesn't really make a movie funny or insightful - it just makes it selectively vicious and likely serves no constructive purpose whatsoever.

As for why I'm agnostic, I don't think you can prove to me that God exists. You also can't prove he doesn't. There simply isn't sufficient evidence.

budnipper1
10-05-2008, 02:02 AM
I believe there is a God. I also believe that there are many things which are beyond man's capability to understand. For those things, faith must fill the void.
-P Doyle Brown/budnipper1

-Thomas Henry Huxley (http://www.essortment.com/all/agnosticdefinit_rmak.htm)(1825 – 1895) came up with the word ‘agnostic’ while searching for a term to describe his own beliefs. He did not consider himself “an atheist, a theist, a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; [nor] a Christian…” and while he had much in common with freethinkers, he wanted a term to describe himself more accurately. His difference with the people who gave themselves the above labels was that he did not feel certain of his knowledge- or ‘gnosis’- that he “had successfully solved the problem of existence.”

Huxley defined agnosticism as follows, and this is perhaps, the truest definition of the term today: “… it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.” It is not merely a matter of whether or not one knows if God exists, but it is a matter of whether one can objectively define his belief, whether in God or in anything else.

No philosophical theory which I have yet come across is a radical improvement on the words of Genesis, that 'In the beginning God made Heaven and Earth'.
-C.S. Lewis


If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped.
-Evelyn Underhill

James48843
10-05-2008, 07:35 AM
As for why I'm agnostic, I don't think you can prove to me that God exists. You also can't prove he doesn't. There simply isn't sufficient evidence.

You are right- I can't prove his existence to you. Only He can do that.
Ask Him to show you His evidence. You may be surprised. I know I was.


That said-

It is interesting we can discuss, with civil discourse here, the two major things you don't discuss with co-workers- God and Politics.

Both are topics that we should share with one another.

Show-me
10-05-2008, 07:57 AM
Back to Maher, why don't he do a film on Hollywood or the Left Coast. Now there would be a film.

I'm an agnostic but don't really like Maher. You could make a movie about any group of people and find enough idiots in that group to make fun of them in order to make a larger point about the group. That doesn't really make a movie funny or insightful - it just makes it selectively vicious and likely serves no constructive purpose whatsoever.

As for why I'm agnostic, I don't think you can prove to me that God exists. You also can't prove he doesn't. There simply isn't sufficient evidence.

Silverbird
10-05-2008, 08:24 AM
I am not an Agnostic. I belive there is a God, and Jesus Christ is his son. However, I also believe that those outside of my beliefs are not eternally dammed simply because they follow the Great Spirit, or Buddah, or any of the others who show a Way to a virtuous life that are not Jesus or if they are agnostic, as long as they follow a virtuous life. As one evangelical told me, we as Christians cannot say where they will go after death because we simply Don't Know (too bad I met him years ago when I was in High School or else I would have gotten his card!). For me to believe in eternal damnation would be for me to not honor my great grand-mother and father, and those before them who did not know of the Way, and for me that's breaking one of the 10 commandments. So I am Christian, but what I think is open thinking along the lines that the Bible have taught me, makes me heretical to many others to the point that I have not found a place.

Mike
10-05-2008, 08:25 AM
You are right- I can't prove his existence to you. Only He can do that.
And if he doesn't exist, he can't do that.

Ask Him to show you His evidence. You may be surprised. I know I was.
Just out of curiosity, what was the evidence that you were shown, and why did you attribute it to an omnipotent deity as opposed to coincidence, nature, or some other readily available explanation? Or was it simply a chain of events you couldn't understand or comprehend, so it just got thrown into the realm of the Almighty? Or was it something entirely different? I'm not terribly interested in the "what" regarding others' beliefs; I'm much more interested in the "why" - because I believe "why?" is the most fundamental question of existence.

It is interesting we can discuss, with civil discourse here, the two major things you don't discuss with co-workers- God and Politics.
A lot of this has to do with who is participating in the discussion and what the mentality is. If you enter a discussion to express your opinion / belief *and* are willing to hear others' views without jumping down their throats and telling them they're morons, a healthy discussion can take place. I'm naturally curious about a lot of things (which is why I dwell in the realm of science), so it's difficult to have a knock-down / drag-out type of argument with me. :)

Both are topics that we should share with one another.
Agreed.

Show-me
10-05-2008, 08:33 AM
And, as long as it remains respectful to both parties.

XL-entLady
10-05-2008, 09:04 AM
Did you hear about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac who stayed awake all night wondering if there was a Dog? :D

Lady

Show-me
10-05-2008, 09:23 AM
I don't have the answers and I am not a very good Christian but...... One thought I am thinking this beautiful Sunday morning as I suck up a hot cup of coffee in the brisk air of Missouri.

This is a Country founded by people who "In God We Trust" and wrote the foundation of our laws and rights based on those beliefs and faith. I believe we prospered due to that foundation. The larger we become and the more we have moved away from God, it seems the worse our Nation is doing.

I am reminded of these because of the movie Seven. Seven Deadly Sins: LUST, GLUTTONY, GREED, SLOTH, WRATH, ENVY, PRIDE. Porn, rape, sex slaves, prostitution, over weight, stroke, heart failure, diabetes, economy, politics, golden parachute, laziness, entitlement programs, welfare, food stamps, drugs, road rage, cell phone rage, standing in line rage, rage at a little league game, wanting what everyone else has and using credit to get it, etc. God will not come down and twist your arm into not doing them, but there are consequences in them all.

The Ten Commandments, again not a bad set of standards to live by.

I know, I know it is a horrible argument to make to a agnostic or atheist because it requires no proof just faith and to believe. My main point is that the Bible is a very good set of standard to live by even if you do not have faith or belief in God.

Maybe the worst is yet to come. Look back at Rome and see how they fell. See ya at Church.;)

Rod
10-05-2008, 09:49 AM
I do not question the existence of God. But rather, I question all religious circles that claim to have received a divine authority or directive from Him. That leaves no one left.

Therefore, I shall continue to strive after God as I see Him and as He reveals Himself to me , and not after established religion's many interpretations or 'revelations' of Him.

XL-entLady
10-05-2008, 09:56 AM
I don't have the answers and I am not a very good Christian ....My main point is that the Bible is a very good set of standards to live by even if you do not have faith or belief in God.
I beg to differ with you on just one point, my friend. My sense of things is that you are a very good Christian. Matthew 7:16, "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit...." :)

Lady

jimijr
10-05-2008, 12:05 PM
Is faith a matter of will? Or does it come all on its own? I don't see how one can force one's self to believe, or learn to believe. It is either there or it is not. I plan to see the movie if and when I get the chance. Maybe on DVD in a while.

McDuck
10-05-2008, 02:06 PM
I'm an agnostic. That's just the way it is.

I'm not surprised. But how can you be 100% sure that you are really an agnostic.

McDuck
10-05-2008, 02:08 PM
You could make a movie about any group of people and find enough idiots in that group to make fun of them

You could NOT do that with with this group (tsptalk).

Miss_Piggy
10-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Gee, it was pleasant to find others believe as I do.
But "Good Ol' Birch" - who would have thought! I'll have to give him an extra acknowledgement for that one -

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/happy/Bighug.gif

Show-me
10-06-2008, 06:40 AM
From the looks of the futures and the OSM we all probably need to go to church next Sunday. God help us.

Buster
10-06-2008, 07:24 AM
Gee, it was pleasant to find others believe as I do.
But "Good Ol' Birch" - who would have thought! I'll have to give him an extra acknowledgement for that one -


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/happy/Bighug.gif
Why?..cuz he'll burn in eternal damnation as you..I guess misery does love company...

This thread is pathetic.

McDuck
10-06-2008, 12:07 PM
Pope says world financial system is 'built on sand'... (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4893190.ece)

peterson82
10-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Why?..cuz he'll burn in eternal damnation as you..I guess misery does love company...

This thread is pathetic.

That burn is the same burn Santa feels when he comes down the chimney.

Buster
10-06-2008, 02:40 PM
In your contemptuous attempt to blaspheme the name Of God by comparing him to Santa Claus...Makes this thread even more Pathetic..



http://www.stnicholascenter.org/stnic/images/susan-seals.jpg
St. Nicholas
Artist: Susan Seals
Used by permission The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#Bishop) of Myra (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#Myra) while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships.

Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#Diocletian), who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#Council+of+Nicaea) in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church, where a unique relic (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#relic), called manna (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#manna), formed in his grave. This liquid substance, said to have healing powers, fostered the growth of devotion to Nicholas. The anniversary of his death became a day of celebration, St. Nicholas Day (http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=205#St.+Nicholas+Day).
Through the centuries many stories and legends have been told of St. Nicholas' life and deeds. These accounts help us understand his extraordinary character and why he is so beloved and revered as protector and helper of those in need.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38

I hope all you Atheists ans agnostics don't celebrate Christmas or take the day off as a Holiday..otherwise you are being a hypocrite.

XL-entLady
10-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Please, folks, let's everyone take a deep breath and step back here. Maybe we ought to leave it at that old saying, "There are no atheists in foxholes." :o

When we're being shelled so heavily from the outside, there is no reason to try to frag each other. :worried:

Lady

Mike
10-06-2008, 09:37 PM
This thread was fine 'til Buster decided to stir up trouble.

Show-me
10-06-2008, 09:44 PM
Funny how Maher chose to target mainly "turn the other cheek Christians" instead of "cut your head off" Islamics. Coward.

nnuut
10-06-2008, 09:49 PM
4811

Miss_Piggy
10-06-2008, 10:08 PM
This thread was fine 'til Buster decided to stir up trouble.
Thanks Mike, I was about to commit hari-kari for my foolishness.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/forum/harikari.jpg

XL-entLady
10-06-2008, 10:17 PM
Thanks Mike, I was about to commit hari-kari for my foolishness.


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/forum/harikari.jpg

No, no, no, Miss Piggy! We should be able to have civilized discussions about these things. In fact, there are days I count on these "make you think about it" discussions to keep the Alheimers at bay. :cheesy:

I was just trying to calm someone down before there was a blood vessel rupture, without getting too pointed about it. :o

You just keep on keepin' on,
Lady

Buster
10-06-2008, 10:39 PM
Thanks Mike, I was about to commit hari-kari for my foolishness.


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/forum/harikari.jpg

Yeah, don't commit suicide...that's as bad as Murder and you will go to Hell for either.

McDuck
10-06-2008, 10:57 PM
I never heard Maher speak out about these guys.

jc2FCJ7zWEQ

ChemEng
10-06-2008, 11:45 PM
I never heard Maher speak out about these guys.This was the first result in my Google search with just Maher and Wright in the search field. They are sooo tricky sometimes where they hide these nuggets of information!
---------------------------------
Bill Maher Offers Reverend Wright Anatomical Criticism
By Tim Graham
April 30, 2008 - 05:54 ET

Andrew Malcolm of The Los Angeles Times Top of the Ticket blog suggested that Bill Maher on HBO "says what many people, most of them supporters of Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, who refused to disown Wright in his recent race speech, are saying to themselves about the impact of the pastor's reappearance and resulting news coverage," but have "many" been this vivid?

I saw Reverend Wright. This is the guy that Obama did not throw under the bus. He said ‘you know what, I can no more repudiate him than I can repudiate my family.’ And I saw this guy the other night, who I also defended, Reverend Wright, saying ‘you know what, Obama was just being a politician.’ You know what, Reverend Wright? You’re a dick. [Laughter] What a dick. At the very moment Obama doesn’t need this to come back into the race. Obama did not disown him. That this guy brings up the one thing Obama cannot afford to have brought up, that he’s just another politician. This is his whole campaign, that I’m a different kind of politician.

That probably sounds like the view of "many people" in the news rooms of the national media. I’d say the real shock is that Bill Maher ever defended a Reverend, someone Maher would 99 times out of 100 scorn as a peddler of toxic fairy tales.

Arianna Huffington stayed stubbornly on Maher's left: "However bad Reverend Wright is or is not, what does it have to do ultimately with whether Barack Obama would be a good president or not?" She called it "another major distraction."

Apparently, Wright hasn't said anything that offends her yet. He's made fun of the way the Kennedys speak English, but he has yet to extend his comedy stylings to an Arianna impression.

CountryBoy
10-07-2008, 06:02 AM
Maher will get his in the end. After seeing him a couple of times, I don't waste my time with trash like him. His kind would be the first to have their heads lopped off by the muslim fanatics, that currently support our socialist candidate for prez.

CB

Birchtree
10-08-2008, 01:36 PM
Now if our friend Buster wants to offer me condemnation to the fires of hell I'll simply say to him - STFU. I cannot count the number of death situations I've encountered over the last forty years and never have I seen any divine intervention. These situations include the battle field, emergency rooms, intensive care units, operating rooms and emergency codes. I have participated in it all and neither Jesus or Allah were paramont. You are free to believe as you like. I was a Catholic alter boy for two years when I was a young teen and I have not been in a Church since 1969 and you can blame Vietnam for that and I have no intention of ever going back. My daughter will be married next year and I'll go into a church for her because that is what she desires.

budnipper1
10-08-2008, 01:55 PM
Now if our friend Buster wants to offer me condemnation to the fires of hell I'll simply say to him - STFU.

http://www.stfu.se/ :D

Buster
10-08-2008, 02:04 PM
To Birch and Bud and all your friends alike, I say unto you all:

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34)

budnipper1
10-08-2008, 02:10 PM
To Birch and Bud and all your friends, I say unto you all:

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34)


Buster, I think you took my little comment the wrong way. I had to google stfu to learn what it meant and thought it was funny. Sorry if this offended you. My comment wasn't meant towards you or to Birch either. I probably should have just kept it to myself.

Buster
10-08-2008, 02:22 PM
I wish You all could see the smile on my face..I take nothing serious as the internet is hard to convey my smart ass joking tone of voice...It's just me, and like the aggies here..I won't change..:D:D:D:D

tsptalk
10-08-2008, 02:24 PM
Sorry if this offended you. My comment wasn't meant towards you or to Birch either. I probably should have just kept it to myself.
Thanks budnipper. But no apologies necessary here. This thread, along with the election thread, came with a warning that anyone easily offended should stay away.

I don't think buster was offended anyway. He's pretty tough and seems to be just spreading the word. It's all good.

McDuck
10-08-2008, 02:43 PM
Now if our friend Buster wants to offer me condemnation to the fires of hell I'll simply say to him - STFU. I cannot count the number of death situations I've encountered over the last forty years and never have I seen any divine intervention. These situations include the battle field, emergency rooms, intensive care units, operating rooms and emergency codes. I have participated in it all and neither Jesus or Allah were paramont. You are free to believe as you like. I was a Catholic alter boy for two years when I was a young teen and I have not been in a Church since 1969 and you can blame Vietnam for that and I have no intention of ever going back. My daughter will be married next year and I'll go into a church for her because that is what she desires.

2nd Peter 3:8-10 - But you should never lose sight of this fact, dear friends, that time is not the same with the Lord as it is with us - to him a day may be a thousand years, and a thousand years only a day. It is not that he is dilatory about keeping his own promise as some men seem to think; the fact is that he is very patient towards you. He has no wish that any man should be destroyed. He wishes that all men should come to repent. Yet it remains true that the day of the Lord will come as suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief. In that day the heavens will disappear in a terrific tearing blast, the very elements will disintegrate in heat and the earth and all that is in it will be burnt up to nothing. (J B Phillips New Testament) (http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/JBPNT.htm)

malyla
10-08-2008, 02:49 PM
I thought it meant 'so to for you'.

Birch,

Just when I am ready to write off any chance that we will stand on common ground, you surprise me with your comments here. It's nice to be pleasently surprised about someone you have had run-ins with in the past.

I have done a lot of reading on this subject of 'is there a God' and still can't say one way or another. I do believe that Jesus was a real man and that he had some very powerful things to say, but whether he was the son of God is as likely as saying that we are all the sons and daughters of God. Who knows for sure? The few things I have discovered is that many real meanings attributed to Jesus and God have been obsured or forgotten by time. My reading lead to the real meaning behind "Turn the other cheek" (hint: it doesn't mean you walk away) and why the orthodox Jewish religion does not eat pork (not a health issue). Also the old testament has many issues, such as being able to beat your wife with a stick no thicker than your thumb, plus the many reasons a person can be put to the death.

Is there a God in the Judeo/Christian sense? I don't think so, however, Mother Earth is an amazing place, full of wonder and life and if people want to believe that an all powerful (male) entity runs it, well who am I to condemn them (that is until they do it to me first).

I look forward to being surprised more in the future.

Malyla

Steadygain
10-08-2008, 03:40 PM
I do believe that Jesus was a real man and that he had some very powerful things to say, but whether he was the son of God. Who knows for sure?

Malyla

I'm glad you believe he was a real man.

I guess the only way we could possibly know for sure is by reading all the predictions about Jesus before he was born. If these predictions were verifiably written during a period of history that preceeded his birth - then the likelihood of him being all he was predicted to be are hugely and undeniably real. The more predictions over the years (say 400 distinct predictions) the more likely that only one person could possibly be what was claimed about him - and all the more the odds that person alone could ever be the one.

The only ones who know for sure are those that in total faith have died to themselves and completey found themselves in his spirit.

So it all comes down to faith - but faith can not be proven to anyone else - and therefore who can know??

If God is real - mankind would have to refer to God in terms that reduce God to our understanding. In all liklihood Male (or female) and all the things that make us different - do not apply to God.

budnipper1
10-08-2008, 03:54 PM
Thanks budnipper. But no apologies necessary here. This thread, along with the election thread, came with a warning that anyone easily offended should stay away.
I don't think buster was offended anyway. He's pretty tough and seems to be just spreading the word. It's all good.

I wish You all could see the smile on my face..I take nothing serious as the internet is hard to convey my smart ass joking tone of voice...It's just me, and like the aggies here..I won't change..:D


Oh...in that case, I take my apology back! :nuts:
4833

Frixxxx
10-08-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm glad you believe he was a real man.

HE WAS UNREAL!!!!:cheesy:


...

The only ones who know for sure are those that in total faith have died to themselves and completey found themselves in his spirit. Hey that's me!


So it all comes down to faith - but faith can not be proven to anyone else - and therefore who can know??
You ever really look at a sunrise and think, "Wow, what are the chances of the sum of chances that led to a perfect situation to give me the luck to watch this blessed event?":)


If God is real - mankind would have to refer to God in terms that reduce God to our understanding. In all liklihood Male (or female) and all the things that make us different - do not apply to God. My belief is that when I see God face to face, it will not matter what form I percieve. It will only consist of eternal love.:cool:

Birchtree
10-08-2008, 04:10 PM
malyla,

Dexter is my hero. What does that tell you?

Steadygain
10-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Malyla,

Sarah is my hero www.greenteadiary.com (http://www.greenteadiary.com) (my firstborn)

Then Emily (my second daughter)
Then Carrie (my last daughter)

Then it's pretty much all those like my mother and father, Cayman's father, WV-girl, Lady and all the rest who became what they are and learned to believe and see things as they do.

What does that tell you?

I'm not writting to challenge you - argue with you - or antagonize you. I'm saying this out of the deepest love and admiration because I have to believe you were born is a world created by God and therefore you are undoubtedly worthy of whatever respect I can offer.

malyla
10-08-2008, 08:00 PM
malyla,

Dexter is my hero. What does that tell you?

Haven't seen the show, but a friend has told me that the show in about a serial killer who preys on other serial killers. So, if someone kills and enjoys killing people who prey on the innocent, are they evil? Dexter seems to be saving lives at best or avenging deaths at worst. And if you feel that Dexter is a hero, then are you participating in (routing for) evil or are you aggreeing that the rule of law does not apply and it's ok to be a vigilante? Slippery slope with the vigilante issue. Sometimes hard to draw the line on who dies. But the idea of a vigilante taking the moral hit to protect the innocent is a very compeling idea. I would perfer the rule of law as I know what that is, but can anyone KNOW the moral compass of a killer? I wonder if Dexter is an agnostic.

Birchtree
10-08-2008, 08:16 PM
I actually had the misfortune of practicing some vigilantesim once myself so I know the feeling that is required. Now my heroine is Sooki Stackhouse of "True Blood".

ChemEng
10-08-2008, 08:19 PM
Now my heroine is Sooki Stackhouse of "True Blood".Now that is something we can agree on Birch. Amazing show...

wv-girl
10-08-2008, 09:01 PM
Then it's pretty much all those like my mother and father, Cayman's father, WV-girl, Lady and all the rest who became what they are and learned to believe and see things as they do.

What does that tell you?


Hi Everyone,
Steady,

Faith is not a learned behavior.
Let me just say that I did not learn to believe. It is a very personal relationship between spirtual beings. And from a very early age (around 4 or 5) is when I became aware of what my mother referred to as my imageary friend. For me, thoughout my life, he has always been there. I cannot begin to explain to non believers how I know what I know, but when you experience it there is no denying it.

Just as you can never convince non-believers that he does exist, NO ONE will ever convince me he does not.

If anyone asks me, I will share my beliefs and experiences with them. If all they want to do is debate, then I follow the Lords lead and shake it off, like he says in the New Testament.

My best advice to anyone, is to find your quiet place, block out all of the outside influences, look into your heart, ask him your questions and relax and listen.

kitepig
10-09-2008, 01:10 AM
Hello Miss Piggy,

Just answering the original question. I always tell people I'm agnostic, but I'm really trying to keep folks from getting riled-up because in reality I don't believe in a personal God at all. By some of the definitions of God that I observed in this thread, it makes me an atheist.

I don't care much for Bill Maher, but at the same time I'm a huge fan of Borat! Go figure?

PS. Where's that market bottom!? Its coming..

Mike
10-09-2008, 02:54 AM
2nd Peter 3:8-10 - But you should never lose sight of this fact, dear friends,
John McCain wrote the Bible. Interesting. :p

Silverbird
10-09-2008, 08:07 AM
Some people ask me, how can I believe in the scientific method, and be Christian?

To embrace ignorance is to deny responsibility. As soon as we cooked our food, ignorance and bliss went away - or else we'd never learn from a forest fire. A Christian needs to be responsible, and watch the patterns of the Universe.

Einstein's big mistake: "God does not roll dice" (no such thing as this Quantum Physics crazyness)
Quantum Physicists: Like dice, this seeming randomness has a pattern. Just because we can't see the dice doesn't mean we can't glimpse the results.

Old Church Thinking: The Earth is the center of the Universe. So we say. So it is
Reality: That dates back to Ptolemy. He was wrong, and furthermore, he was a pagan so it wasn't "as you said".

There are patterns we do not understand, there are notes in the music of the Universe that we cannot hear but are there, nonetheless, that we glimpse through experimentation and testing of theories. Beware of any mortal who says they've heard it all, or worse, expect God to change the song to save them.

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 08:16 AM
Hi Everyone,
Steady,

Faith is not a learned behavior.
Let me just say that I did not learn to believe. It is a very personal relationship between spirtual beings. And from a very early age (around 4 or 5) is when I became aware of what my mother referred to as my imageary friend. For me, thoughout my life, he has always been there. I cannot begin to explain to non believers how I know what I know, but when you experience it there is no denying it.

Just as you can never convince non-believers that he does exist, NO ONE will ever convince me he does not.

If anyone asks me, I will share my beliefs and experiences with them. If all they want to do is debate, then I follow the Lords lead and shake it off, like he says in the New Testament.

My best advice to anyone, is to find your quiet place, block out all of the outside influences, look into your heart, ask him your questions and relax and listen.

WV-girl,
This is beautiful and a thousand times over reinforces what I somehow knew in my heart was true of you. THANK YOU!

Faith is not a learned behavior.
There is a difference between Spiritual and physical - and in that sense I know exactly what you're saying. Faith is an experience that is life changing - an all (and awe) encompassing event.

Perhaps I am wrong, but as physical beings I believe Faith that is LIFE CHANGING - and encompasses every aspect of our being has to involve Physical Changes that occur in the brain. My first major research was defining this 'Born Again' experience in terms of Brain Chemistry. I was convinced that LOVE - on the level of 'falling in Love' AND overwhelming feelings of TRUST were the most defining aspects by which this experience occured. I found the specific part of the brain most responsible for both LOVE and TRUST occured at the most central region of PROCESSING - that area where the most vital and permanent information is routed to all the final areas for permanent storage. Nothing makes this area light up like 'LOVE' on the 'Falling in Love' level and the ultra feelings of TRUST.

So I would not argue with you. I would simply say that perhaps the EXPERIENCE on Spiritual Levels in a physical being has to involve the Brain - and thus the changes in the brain are hugely responsible for the permanent changes (changes that can only be known by those who have had a Spiritual Awakening)

CountryBoy
10-09-2008, 08:28 AM
Hi Everyone,

Just as you can never convince non-believers that he does exist, NO ONE will ever convince me he does not.

If anyone asks me, I will share my beliefs and experiences with them. If all they want to do is debate, then I follow the Lords lead and shake it off, like he says in the New Testament.



Amen wv-girl. :)

CB

wv-girl
10-09-2008, 08:44 AM
Some people ask me, how can I believe in the scientific method, and be Christian?


That's an easy one. God is the greatest scientist that ever was or will ever be.
:)

Mike
10-09-2008, 08:50 AM
Beware of any mortal who says they've heard it all
Thankfully, we agnostics wouldn't make such claims. :p

wv-girl
10-09-2008, 09:12 AM
WV-girl,
This is beautiful and a thousand times over reinforces what I somehow knew in my heart was true of you. THANK YOU!

Faith is not a learned behavior.
There is a difference between Spiritual and physical - and in that sense I know exactly what you're saying. Faith is an experience that is life changing - an all (and awe) encompassing event.

Perhaps I am wrong, but as physical beings I believe Faith that is LIFE CHANGING - and encompasses every aspect of our being has to involve Physical Changes that occur in the brain. My first major research was defining this 'Born Again' experience in terms of Brain Chemistry. I was convinced that LOVE - on the level of 'falling in Love' AND overwhelming feelings of TRUST were the most defining aspects by which this experience occured. I found the specific part of the brain most responsible for both LOVE and TRUST occured at the most central region of PROCESSING - that area where the most vital and permanent information is routed to all the final areas for permanent storage. Nothing makes this area light up like 'LOVE' on the 'Falling in Love' level and the ultra feelings of TRUST.

So I would not argue with you. I would simply say that perhaps the EXPERIENCE on Spiritual Levels in a physical being has to involve the Brain - and thus the changes in the brain are hugely responsible for the permanent changes (changes that can only be known by those who have had a Spiritual Awakening)

Steady,
We are spiritual beings that are "in residence" in physcial bodies. The spirit and the human body are at 'odds' with each other in that when one chooses to follow the Lord the spirit is in charge and you can control what the physical responses are and how to react to them. I do not, in any way, dispute your findings. As ones understanding grows, I am fascinated by all of the advances in the medical world. I hope that we will someday use the other 9/10ths of the physical brain to further both realities.

Silverbird said - "A Christian needs to be responsible, and watch the patterns of the Universe."

So true. :)

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 09:23 AM
Some people ask me, how can I believe in the scientific method, and be Christian?

I have found that science proves God (Intellegent Design) more than anything else and that the Spiritual Experience awakens us to the Ultimate Truth.

To embrace ignorance is to deny responsibility. As soon as we cooked our food, ignorance and bliss went away - or else we'd never learn from a forest fire.

A Christian needs to be responsible, and watch the patterns of the Universe. And in doing this - and comparing these patterns to all life (humans, animals, trees and plants) we find a RHYTHM that is central to everything - the Theta Rhythm - which is the most fundamental aspect behind the interactions of the brain; which is the Base Rhythm of our Earth and thereby largely orchestrates the complex activities of the Oceans; and therefore is likely responsible for the complex activities in the various layers of the Sun.

The theta rhythm is simply a tool by which God is able to know all things and control all things - a tool designed to bring everything under one huge common theme.

Einstein's big mistake: "God does not roll dice" (no such thing as this Quantum Physics crazyness)
Silverbird - I'm impressed - really!! Yes we could say it was a mistake - which highlights 'To embrace ignorance is to deny responsibility' The underlying basis of Einstein's refusal to except things as they are is because it went against the bondries of his belief in God. So his God was confined to a box - and he absolutely refused to believe that reality (or God) could be beyond the boundries of that box.

Quantum Physicists: Like dice, this seeming randomness has a pattern. Just because we can't see the dice doesn't mean we can't glimpse the results.

Old Church Thinking: The Earth is the center of the Universe. So we say. So it is
Reality: That dates back to Ptolemy. He was wrong, and furthermore, he was a pagan so it wasn't "as you said".

There are patterns we do not understand, there are notes in the music of the Universe that we cannot hear but are there, nonetheless, that we glimpse through experimentation and testing of theories. Beware of any mortal who says they've heard it all, or worse, expect God to change the song to save them.

Will copy - paste - print this one. Thank you !

malyla
10-09-2008, 09:24 AM
I hope that we will someday use the other 9/10ths of the physical brain to further both realities.


Modern science has shown that we use 100% of our physical brains, just not all at the same time. Amazingly, during mediation a significant portion of the whole is active which did surprise me. Neurology is a fasinating subject. Just read a article about what makes a good liar. It turns out that they have more neural transmitters of a certain kind (I'll need to reread the article to remember exactly what transmitter). Fasinating stuff learning about our brains.

In my experience, when the spirit and the body are at odds, sickness (physical or mental) results. The trick is to be comfortable in your body while being comfortable in the world.

Silverbird
10-09-2008, 09:33 AM
Steady:

I'm with you, until the "Intelligent Design" idea. I believe God made the Universe so it is self-sustaining, and everything develops at its time. I don't think he created "special creatures" that do not fit the evolutionary process. The process itself is music, Man evolved in the time he fit in, as did everything else. It is not a flaw in the process that some did not survive - Earth evolves, changes, always. There is no perfection, nor ultimate creation, because that would imply stasis, which is flawed because it cannot evolve to the changing surroundings, to the destruction and creation that keeps our Universe adapting, and moving.

So, yes, I also follow Evolutionary Theory. With Science, we are trying to figure out how to work in the Universe, how to be responsible.

So far I haven't seen a true pattern - or anything to increase our knowledge of the Universe - in "Intelligent Design". "Intelligent Design" instead says, "You'll never understand some of these wonders, they will always be beyond your knowledge, there are things outside the pattern, notes thrown into the music." Which to me encourages throwing your hands up and taking the easy way out, and implies that God has to meddle in his own creation to make it work! That sounds like Man, not God - Man always has to meddle cause he makes mistakes.

"To everything there is a season" - even Man. And that is not a flaw in the music.

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 09:59 AM
Modern science has shown that we use 100% of our physical brains, just not all at the same time.

The 9/10ths not being used is indeed a long standing myth. But WV-girl's underlying message could not be overstated. The POTIENTIAL we have to use our brains is barely being tapped. ;)

Amazingly, during mediation a significant portion of the whole is active which did surprise me.
We did a study using Monks that have the most advanced methods of Mediation - and they typically mediate for hours and hours. We found the specific region of activity that dominated the mediative state was in the right upper front part of the brain. This region is most associated with POSITIVE THOUGHTS and the GENERAL SENSE OF WELL BEING.

Neurology is a fasinating subject. It's totally amazing; absolutely incredible. Just read a article about what makes a good liar. It turns out that they have more neural transmitters of a certain kind (I'll need to reread the article to remember exactly what transmitter). Fasinating stuff learning about our brains. We could easily do away with polygraph testing - and use Brain Imaging to confirm if someone is telling a lie.

In my experience, when the spirit and the body are at odds, sickness (physical or mental) results. That's beautiful and incredibly true. I think you and WV-girl are saying the same thing. When we allow the Spiritual to take control and are more in tune with the unseen yet very real aspect of existence - it results in the most HEALTHY STATE possible. The trick is to be comfortable in your body while being comfortable in the world.

Thanks for your thoughts

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 10:27 AM
Steady:

I'm with you, until the "Intelligent Design" idea.

We are still in agreement; I just worded myself poorly and thus did not project more clearly what I meant to convey.

I believe God made the Universe so it is self-sustaining, and everything develops at its time.

Our recent discoveries of the dynamics of Black Holes - and our increasing awareness of how matter is cleaned, renewed, and the physics and chemistry by which new stars and galaxies are brought into being - very much SHOWS HOW THE UNIVERSE IS SELF-SUSTAINING.

I don't think he created "special creatures" that do not fit the evolutionary process. Perhaps we don't have to be in disagreement on this either. Maybe we could say that God brought the MUSIC into being and through this all things (including all creatures) are a reflection of this event. The process itself is music, Man evolved in the time he fit in, as did everything else. It is not a flaw in the process that some did not survive - Earth evolves, changes, always. There is no perfection, nor ultimate creation, because that would imply stasis, which is flawed because it cannot evolve to the changing surroundings, to the destruction and creation that keeps our Universe adapting, and moving.

So, yes, I also follow Evolutionary Theory. With Science, we are trying to figure out how to work in the Universe, how to be responsible. We can not do that as a Class 0 Civilization. First we need to advance as a Civilization.

So far I haven't seen a true pattern - or anything to increase our knowledge of the Universe - in "Intelligent Design". It's possible that this can only be understood or identified by a more thorough understanding of the brain and all life upon our Earth. The more we analyze the layers of the Ocean and the Sun - and understand them on the highest levels - the more we see this Design. "Intelligent Design" instead says, "You'll never understand some of these wonders, they will always be beyond your knowledge, NOT TRUE my love, just the opposite. there are things outside the pattern, notes thrown into the music." We'll probably never fully know - so yes your likely correct but the striving to understand more completey is the basis of everything I live for. Which to me encourages throwing your hands up and taking the easy way out, and implies that God has to meddle in his own creation to make it work! That sounds like Man, not God - Man always has to meddle cause he makes mistakes.

"To everything there is a season" - even Man. And that is not a flaw in the music.

Need to run...very busy day and so am having to get back to type here and there.

peterson82
10-09-2008, 10:39 AM
Modern science has shown that we use 100% of our physical brains, just not all at the same time.

The 9/10ths not being used is indeed a long standing myth. But WV-girl's underlying message could not be overstated. The POTIENTIAL we have to use our brains is barely being tapped. ;)


There was a story I read about a few months ago about a woman that can remember every detail in her life going back many years. For instance, she can remember what errands she ran on a particular day 15 years ago, etc. This actually was a problem for her because she could not avoid thinking about things that happened 10-15 years ago in great detail. This made me think about why we do not use our brain to capacity... we need to forget in order to keep things in the present in order.

Silverbird
10-09-2008, 10:44 AM
Steady
As for Civilization 101, I believe that ethics should be taught in the classroom. Because of the many religions we have in this country, it would be easier if we could seperate it from religion because everyone needs to be ethical. This is what is done in Asian countries, they often have a Shamanistic religion + Buddhism + Confucianism + Islam + Christians + Agnostics(can you tell I got my undergrad in Asian Studies?). Regardless of their beliefs, everyone is expected to engage in ethical behavior so Ethics is a required course starting at a very young age (grammar school).

However, in the U.S., ethical training is tied so tightly to Christianity that you cannot seperate the two. I know if you tried to create a mandatory "Ethics" class in this country, you'd be picketed so fast it would not be funny. If everyone went Sunday School at church, that would be fine. But it doesn't work when not everyone does.

Perhaps in the U.S., it should be taught as part of Civics. Ethical behavior is part of good citizenship, after all. I know there is an attempt to fit it into Science classes, but it doesn't belong there. It's like trying to teach it as part of the Pythagorean Theory.

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 10:56 AM
There was a story I read about a few months ago about a woman that can remember every detail in her life going back many years.

Indeed - there are quite a few that have incredible RECALL and the wiring and networks of our brain are the most central features of our existence. This distinguishes us far more than gender, race, or religion.

For instance, she can remember what errands she ran on a particular day 15 years ago, etc. This actually was a problem for her because she could not avoid thinking about things that happened 10-15 years ago in great detail.

This is a "quirk" in her wiring - and it's unfortunate; but new and more advanced methods of healing the brain have arrived.

This made me think about why we do not use our brain to capacity... we need to forget in order to keep things in the present in order.

This is quite an insight. Let me say briefly that the overwhelmingly bulk of brain processing INVOLVES THIS FILTERING PROCESS so that redundant and trival stuff can be trashed and not interfere with "normal life". In otherwords - most of the activity is making sure that the information that supplies the 'needed balance' is what takes control.

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 11:12 AM
Steady
As for Civilization 101, I believe that ethics should be taught in the classroom. Because of the many religions we have in this country, it would be easier if we could seperate it from religion because everyone needs to be ethical. This is what is done in Asian countries, they often have a Shamanistic religion + Buddhism + Confucianism + Islam + Christians + Agnostics(can you tell I got my undergrad in Asian Studies?). Regardless of their beliefs, everyone is expected to engage in ethical behavior so Ethics is a required course starting at a very young age (grammar school).

However, in the U.S., ethical training is tied so tightly to Christianity that you cannot seperate the two. I know if you tried to create a mandatory "Ethics" class in this country, you'd be picketed so fast it would not be funny. If everyone went Sunday School at church, that would be fine. But it doesn't work when not everyone does.

Perhaps in the U.S., it should be taught as part of Civics. Ethical behavior is part of good citizenship, after all. I know there is an attempt to fit it into Science classes, but it doesn't belong there, its like trying to teach it alongside Algebra.

Now I'll probably sound like WV-girl. Ethics (perhaps) is something that has to be EXPERIENCED - and is not something that's learned in our usual manner of expression.

The Truest and Purest Ethics stem from a Spiritual Relationship. My belief is - it has to start with my and you - it has to be a personal endeavor that takes root and carries us through life. Then I believe we need to compliment that endeavor by letting this Spiritual Experience intensify though the bonding with others. I believe our homes need to be the PRIMARY FOCUS and then we could carry that over to school, work, and everywhere else.

Well this will probably shock you - but I do not believe going to Sunday School, church, or practicing rituals such as the Holy Water, Communion, Baptism...and so forth make us any more SPIRITUAL or ETHICAL unless it FIRST COMES FROM WITHIN - It has to be an authenic INTERNAL PROCESS that changes our existence before the external events can have true meaning.

Silverbird
10-09-2008, 11:14 AM
There was a story I read about a few months ago about a woman that can remember every detail in her life going back many years. For instance, she can remember what errands she ran on a particular day 15 years ago, etc. This actually was a problem for her because she could not avoid thinking about things that happened 10-15 years ago in great detail. This made me think about why we do not use our brain to capacity... we need to forget in order to keep things in the present in order.She was on a TV special on on the brain (PBS?), she was in essence "haunted" by events. The commentator would tell her a date on the calendar, the woman would remember everything that happened, even down to what was for lunch. She would go out of her way to avoid painful events if possible, because they would be in her head with every detail, and lived with the fear that she might experience something that she could not handle replaying in her head in full color and emotion.

Frixxxx
10-09-2008, 01:45 PM
.....

Well this will probably shock you - but I do not believe going to Sunday School, church, or practicing rituals such as the Holy Water, Communion, Baptism...and so forth make us any more SPIRITUAL or ETHICAL unless it FIRST COMES FROM WITHIN - It has to be an authenic INTERNAL PROCESS that changes our existence before the external events can have true meaning.
Well put, most Christians will tell you that they are the worst hypocrites when it comes to doing things "Christ-like". Ethics are those things that you would not do JUST because it felt wrong. Is it ethical to drive 60 in a 55? Ethics tell us no, for driving on a road with a set speed limit "EVERYONE" must adhere to that speed because someone has determined the best "LIMIT". Now, if the sign said recommended speed of 55, then ethically, driving over 55 might be acceptable. But then what boundaries are you setting with recommendations?

Honestly, speed limits are man laws, not a law from any gods. So, just an example for Silverbird. There are many more "ethical examples" without a religious ties that can be "taught" to the masses.

Ethics are great when dealing with our fellow man. But ethics are wonderful when rooted in our beliefs. No matter what they are!:cool:

wv-girl
10-09-2008, 02:14 PM
Now I'll probably sound like WV-girl. Ethics (perhaps) is something that has to be EXPERIENCED - and is not something that's learned in our usual manner of expression.

The Truest and Purest Ethics stem from a Spiritual Relationship. My belief is - it has to start with my and you - it has to be a personal endeavor that takes root and carries us through life. Then I believe we need to compliment that endeavor by letting this Spiritual Experience intensify though the bonding with others. I believe our homes need to be the PRIMARY FOCUS and then we could carry that over to school, work, and everywhere else.

Well this will probably shock you - but I do not believe going to Sunday School, church, or practicing rituals such as the Holy Water, Communion, Baptism...and so forth make us any more SPIRITUAL or ETHICAL unless it FIRST COMES FROM WITHIN - It has to be an authenic INTERNAL PROCESS that changes our existence before the external events can have true meaning.



Do you consider sounding like me is a bad thing?:laugh:
Thank you for being much more articulate than I am. (You really are very perceptive) This mb is the first and only mb I have ever participated in, so I am learning(slowly) .




Not shocked. I have found that some church's can be more of the devil's (for lack of a better descriptive) playground for causing all kinds of problems within its congregation. So again we are in agreement.:)

Steadygain
10-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Do you consider sounding like me is a bad thing?:laugh:
Thank you for being much more articulate than I am. (You really are very perceptive) This mb is the first and only mb I have ever participated in, so I am learning(slowly) .

Wow! Thanks for writting in 'my color' :D

You just keep on being EXACTLY as you are - and I'd be delighted to sound like you. This is my first time as well. I bombed out as with the TSP - so decided to seek better and more wonderful adventures


Not shocked. I have found that some church's can be more of the devil's (for lack of a better descriptive) playground for causing all kinds of problems within its congregation. So again we are in agreement.:)

Church is important to me for a number of reasons: I give 10% and trust that God will honor that to the Benefit of Others, I thrive on the fellowship and family bonds, it's a way of rededicating and renewing committments, I can sing with all my heart...

McDuck
10-09-2008, 07:19 PM
9LwGt9d1-lU

Birchtree
10-10-2008, 08:01 AM
From "The Deerhunter" one of my all time favorites.

Steadygain
10-10-2008, 09:33 AM
From "The Deerhunter" one of my all time favorites.

Birch,
I'm honestly amazed you'd be able to watch a movie like that. I watched the lastest Rambo movie at home a month ago and that really set me back for a couple of weeks.

His comments: 'You made me this way' or 'It's not a switch you CAN turn off' really rang true for me.

I'd been doing well for quite awhile and had to go through a few tough weeks after that. The 'Deerhunter' would be too much for me.

Buster
10-27-2008, 08:03 AM
At that instant the Atheist cried out, "Oh my God!"

Time Stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky. "You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist, and even credit creation to cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light and said, "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian?"

"Very Well," said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Atwater/gizzly.jpg
"Dear Lord bless this food, for which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen."

Gumby
10-27-2008, 09:02 AM
At that instant the Atheist cried out, "Oh my God!"

Time Stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky. "You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist, and even credit creation to cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light and said, "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian?"

"Very Well," said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Atwater/gizzly.jpg
"Dear Lord bless this food, for which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen."


LOL :)

Silverbird
10-27-2008, 09:26 AM
Birch,
I'm honestly amazed you'd be able to watch a movie like that. I watched the lastest Rambo movie at home a month ago and that really set me back for a couple of weeks.

His comments: 'You made me this way' or 'It's not a switch you CAN turn off' really rang true for me.

I'd been doing well for quite awhile and had to go through a few tough weeks after that. The 'Deerhunter' would be too much for me. "Deerhunter" is harder to watch, according to my vetran neighbors, but much more to the heart of the matter. Rambo, is the nightmare, the boogie man, the worst possible outcome of getting affected by the switch, so most Special Forces, Seals and related Servicepersons my sig others knows from work he did with the Navy and Army (sorry if my terminology is off here, I am not part of the Family) hate that movie because it romantisizes and justifies that response, and sort of implies it is even....normal...for well trained and disciplined warriors. They refuse to watch it and wish it never went to reel. From what I've studied of Profiling, even the worst criminal, unless they are completely off their rocker, have a justification for what they do. So it is understandable that the Rambo brand of justification would be exactly what Special Forces types would try their hardest to reject.

So you might want to re-consider Deerhunter, except with the caveat that it IS close to the heart of the matter, and so haunts some vetrans more.

Buster
10-27-2008, 11:24 AM
It is with all my undying respect and admiration for the men and women that served in Vietnam and all wars, that maintained this country's greatness, so I have the freedom to type this...


But, to add.."Saving Private Ryan" was also very hard to watch for the WWII vets...I seen a lot of men my fathers age leaving the theater with tears in their eyes...


Thank you

fabijo
10-27-2008, 11:39 AM
I believe there are agnostics out there, but you can never really know what they are like.

Steadygain
10-27-2008, 12:01 PM
"Deerhunter" is harder to watch, according to my vetran neighbors, but much more to the heart of the matter. Rambo, is the nightmare, the boogie man, the worst possible outcome of getting affected by the switch, so most Special Forces, Seals and related Servicepersons my sig others knows from work he did with the Navy and Army (sorry if my terminology is off here, I am not part of the Family) hate that movie because it romantisizes and justifies that response, and sort of implies it is even....normal...for well trained and disciplined warriors. They refuse to watch it and wish it never went to reel. From what I've studied of Profiling, even the worst criminal, unless they are completely off their rocker, have a justification for what they do. So it is understandable that the Rambo brand of justification would be exactly what Special Forces types would try their hardest to reject.

So you might want to re-consider Deerhunter, except with the caveat that it IS close to the heart of the matter, and so haunts some vetrans more.

Darling, thank you for your response but this is honestly a matter that only those who were thoroughly combat soldiers in real life and did everything possible for 'The Mission' can understand. You ARE a soldier 100% and nothing else; you are wholly government property and in place to accomplish the Mission. The better you are the more they reward you. I made the highest rank possible (which for the moment was rewarding) and was called over and over for bigger Missions. In that setting you are totally justified to do whatever it takes - and when you accomplish the goal you acknowledge the respect you've earned. In that setting it all makes sense; but this does nothing to prepare you for civilian life.

I'll never watch anything like Rambo, the Deerhunter, or anything else along those lines. Sadly enough - I am no longer qualified to be the soldier they need as I'm too old and out of shape. But my mind behaves like I'm still in my prime and ready for action - and it's the last thing I need. So thanks - but no thanks.

McDuck
11-11-2008, 07:50 AM
doChINcDTJU

The HalfBreed
11-15-2008, 09:56 PM
One should not get Agnostics and Atheists confused. They ARE different.


Word History: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

Word History: An Atheist is One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.



So, an Agnostic CAN believe in the existance of God, whereas an Atheist denies that one exists.

For those that get it confused, they should learn the difference between the two.