I Have A Hard Time Believing. Can Someone Explain?

[Miss_Piggy]

I have a hard time believing and understanding how if we as taxpayers provide our monies to save a few but gigantic institutions (rich, greedy and probably criminal) will benefit and will suffer individually (in our own pockets) if we don’t.

Can anyone help me understand? I'd appreciate any details in simple language.

[FUTURESTRADER]

I have a hard time believing and understanding how if we as taxpayers provide our monies to save a few but gigantic institutions (rich, greedy and probably criminal) will benefit and will suffer individually (in our own pockets) if we don’t.

Can anyone help me understand? I'd appreciate any details in simple language.

I think its all about credit and loans. On the retail side. If you can't get credit for a car loan, you can't buy car, car manufacturers can't sell cars if no one can buy, then car companies go out of business and the people who worked for those companies - manufacturing as well as sales, lose their job. Same for all retail that a lot of people buy with credit - washing machines, electronics. May be impossible to get a loan for kids college. Ultimately, it could be good...everyone will have to live within their cash. Prices should on everything would have to drop considerably.

[Frixxxx]

Person:
wants house but money tight
buys house with A.R.M (even Sub Prime)
moves in
pays mortgage
2-5 years later A.R.M. gets crazy
Mortgage too high
Can’t pay mortgage
Foreclosure: Bank Owns

Bank:
Gives person A.R.M.
Bundles loans in M.B.S.
Sells MBS
MBS pays interests owner happy

MBS:
Gets created
Gets sold
Person defaults on loan
MBS bad, owner not happy

Bank:
Tries to sell new MBS
Insurer raises rates on MBS
No buyers
Can’t raise money
Can’t loan money
Holds on to assets and money

Businesses:
Can’t get loans from bank
Can’t run business
Shut down or consolidate and lay-off

Government:
Buys bad MBS from Banks
Banks raise money to lend
Bank lends money
Business stays open people have jobs
Government sells bad MBS later for profit

We have another name for this already
WELFARE except this time the government actually “OWNS” property
Bail out of corporation instead of people very hard to digest


If the government steps in, then the money comes from the treasury, and that will take a big IOU. That IOU is to be paid by the taxpayer or sale of the assets the government buys. To me, this is deterrent/prevention/stabilizing efforts. However, if the government doesn't step in, the banks consolidate, stop lending money for a while, businesses close because they can't get money. People can't work and go on unemployment. Taxpayer pays more taxes to support those who can't support themselves. Sooner or later we pay for those banking practices.

By the way, if you have watched the markets steadily decline since Nov '07, can you imagine the retirees scratching their head at lack of buying power they have now? Not to mention a limited number of IFTs to make the most of the situation.:cool:

[Show-me]

It is a gov. sponsored addiction called credit and is sold by proclaiming "why wait, buy it NOW".

[Silverbird]

I have a hard time understanding how this not a bailout whateveritis bill does anything to fix the credit crisis (except maybe push it back to next year)?

[Minnow]

I have a hard time understanding how this not a bailout whateveritis bill does anything to fix the credit crisis (except maybe push it back to next year)?

"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

[Show-me]

It does not "fix" anything. The "hope" is that the lenders will loosen up and lend once they sell the bad paper to the tax payer, thus continuing the crime that got us here.

[Show-me]

Lending transfers wealth from the idiot people that can not afford the junk they buy throught the lender for a fee and to the retailers and producers. Thus, making the people that got us to this situation either more wealth or they have more junk to throw away at the city wide clean up.

[Silverbird]

:blink: So the House NOT passing this bill is irresponsible why?
I think we need a different bill?

[amoeba]

It does not "fix" anything. The "hope" is that the lenders will loosen up and lend once they sell the bad paper to the tax payer, thus continuing the crime that got us here.

Hope all you want, but the only sure thing is that if you spend $700B for bad paper, then you own the bad paper and the entity that you sold it to will have your $700B.

As far as the beneficial effect on short term credit shortage, there is no evidence from the rates, spreads, and/or futures, that this is necessarily going to happen at all - and certainly not instantaneously.

In other words, it is a complete waste of money. Don't do it. It won't work.

[Show-me]

:blink: So the House NOT passing this bill is irresponsible why?
I think we need a different bill?

Because, it is what the lobbiest want to save their butts and it will get worse before it gets better. It always does when you try to stop a addictive habit.


Hope all you want, but the only sure thing is that if you spend $700B for bad paper, then you own the bad paper and the entity that you sold it to will have your $700B.

As far as the beneficial effect on short term credit shortage, there is no evidence from the rates, spreads, and/or futures, that this is necessarily going to happen at all - and certainly not instantaneously.

In other words, it is a complete waste of money. Don't do it. It won't work.

I agree, just to be clear it is not me that is hopeful.

[Minnow]

[quote=Show-me;184107]Because, it is what the lobbiest want to save their butts and it will get worse before it gets better. It always does when you try to stop a addictive habit.

quote]

Nice post!!! They're like heroin addicts agreeing to go to the methadone clinic -- nice try ... try jail for some good 'ol economic d.t.'s and a cold turkey solution!!!

This may be a bit harsh but I agree with your addiction analogy.

[Frixxxx]

It does not "fix" anything. The "hope" is that the lenders will loosen up and lend once they sell the bad paper to the tax payer, thus continuing the crime that got us here.

Totally agree, hence the regulation requirement that needs to be imposed that certain members of Congress can't seem to stomach.


Hope all you want, but the only sure thing is that if you spend $700B for bad paper, then you own the bad paper and the entity that you sold it to will have your $700B.

As far as the beneficial effect on short term credit shortage, there is no evidence from the rates, spreads, and/or futures, that this is necessarily going to happen at all - and certainly not instantaneously.

In other words, it is a complete waste of money. Don't do it. It won't work.
Unfortunately its a cascade effect. Banks don't lend, companies can't finance, companies close, employees let go, unemployed workers can't find work, retailers have no business, restaraunts go under more unemployment. Those left over have to foot the bill for programs that support those out of work. Yes, it's not like it is instantaneous but it can happen. Capitalism at its' finest. Unless you "have" a buffer, and its a BIG buffer, will you have to weather the storm. IMHO:cool:

[Birchtree]

Where did all this negative paper come from. It came from the at risk population trying to make oversized mortgage payments from their welfare payments and unemployment benefits - that was the source of income that qualified them for a mortgage. Now we are trying to keep these folks in their homes so they don't drown the rest of us with foreclosures. If we take this paper off the bank's books that will free them to lend again - the government can hold this bad paper until the family grows and gets more increases in their welfare payments. The Donkeys take care of their own - they need the votes. This was all accomplished due to affirmative action in the housing sector. Remember this is only 3% of the population causing this mess - most people are responsible enough to make their mortgage payments - or find a cheaper place to live. But we cannot let our good neighbors drown or we all drown. So the taxpayer will once again bail out the Donkey's constituent groups - the welfatre recipients. Now I realize many of you refuse to accept this reasoning but it will all surface as a policy related to political correctness.

[Silverbird]

But Birch, you are not telling me why we need this bill, are you in the school of this thing won't do anything? It sounds like you think this is a plot by Paulson to support the Democrats? Plus, if it's welfare, why did the entire Black Caucus vote against it, since you say they are behind the equal housing plot?

Tying up $700B doesn't leave any money for spending, so this definately is no good if you want to spend to make your constituents happy.

[XL-entLady]

Unfortunately its a cascade effect. Banks don't lend, companies can't finance, companies close, employees let go, unemployed workers can't find work, retailers have no business, restaraunts go under more unemployment. Those left over have to foot the bill for programs that support those out of work. Yes, it's not like it is instantaneous but it can happen. Capitalism at its' finest. Unless you "have" a buffer, and its a BIG buffer, will you have to weather the storm. IMHO
Frixxxx, yes, IMHO too. :( I have a secure money flow, a stable mortgage I can handle, new vehicles and no short-term liabilities. But I also have employed children who would find it hard to feed my grandchildren on unemployment compensation. :worried:

I hated - hated - the bill as originally drafted. And I let my representatives know that. I also let them know that I recognize that something must be done, and that I would not actively oppose legislation if it contained certain measures like discounted purchases, preferred senior stock ownership, and severe limitations on total compensation packages for the #&%*#s who ran the companies into the ground.

Again, JMHO.

Lady

[XL-entLady]

Where did all this negative paper come from. It came from the at risk population trying to make oversized mortgage payments from their welfare payments and unemployment benefits.... the government can hold this bad paper until the family grows and gets more increases in their welfare payments. The Donkeys take care of their own - they need the votes. This was all accomplished due to affirmative action in the housing sector. .... So the taxpayer will once again bail out the Donkey's constituent groups - the welfatre recipients.
Oh-oh. Birch missed his nap again. :rolleyes:

Lady

[Show-me]

But we cannot let our good neighbors drown or we all drown. So the taxpayer will once again bail out the Donkey's constituent groups - the welfatre recipients. Now I realize many of you refuse to accept this reasoning but it will all surface as a policy related to political correctness.

Let them eat cake, two wrongs don't make it right and why start the cycle over again. No bail outs!:mad:

[Silverbird]

So far it's no one for this bill.

Anyone? Anyone? If no one here is, we need to plan as if we expect Thursday's vote won't make Wall Street happy.

[Birchtree]

Silverbird,

The mortgage companies and banks have no way to measure the worth of this paper using the mark to market accounting. They don't have a mechanism to handle all the foreclosures that are happening aside from write downs of losses. If given time some of these mortgages will work out with lower interest rates - it was Bernanke who inadvertantly caused this debacle by raising rates 17 times and killing the housing industry. Society does not want to bail these people out or the companies that were doing their job helping provide funding for the mortgages. Stupidy and ignorance is to blame along with greed for this mess - but as good neighbors we have to save our minority friends. By saving the investment banks we will save the many less fortunate even if they have a better home than the rest of us. I would suggest reading my post 4019 on my thread. I'm not sure why the congressional black caucus voted down this bill - only the shadow knows for real. It could be they just didn't understand the resultant complications that comes with this financial mess. But if you have a foreclosed home in your neighborhood your home is going to be devalued in price immediately. Houses from now on will be treated similarly to equities - prices go up and prices go down. This is the first time that I can remember that home prices have corrected and in the long run it will be materially important for the health of the economy - that's why I've been buying home builders for my account - three years from now this debacle will be forgotten.

[ChemEng]

Can anyone help me understand? I'd appreciate any details in simple language.Trickle down economics is a lie. The rich don't get that status by giving away the same amounts of money as they receive. So of course it makes sense that if you want to get money into the hands of the shrinking middle class, it should be filtered through them first. :rolleyes:

[wv-girl]

Trickle down economics is a lie. The rich don't get that status by giving away the same amounts of money as they receive. So of course it makes sense that if you want to get money into the hands of the shrinking middle class, it should be filtered through them first. :rolleyes:
How about our turn? What if..in order to bail out the "banks" bottom line, Joe Sixpack(all mortgage holding taxpayers that hold mortgages) get their mortgages(fixed and all) re-set to 3%? Talk about stimulating the ecomony and stablizing the housing market? So the banks profit margins suffer. Too bad. Something is better than nothing? Right?

[amoeba]

well, from the polls I read - at least 5 out of 6 oppose the bailout. And that's what it is - a bailout. Because the government should NOT be buying into ANY bad paper. If anything, the talk of a pending bill prevents banks from disposing of the bad paper for whatever true value they are worth - in the hope that they will get some lump amount 20, 30 cents on the dollar - from the government. Just say NO!

Once the banks, and cronies like Paulson, get that (i.e., no bailout of any kind) through their thick skulls they can sell the bad assets on the market or go belly up. The arrogance of Paulson ("I'm angry with congress") is truely numbing; I'm proud of them - at least the ones that voted this crap down. It should not ever pass, in any form and (I hope) will not. The guy's persistence shows an obvious lack of consideration of the alternatives, and a prevailing disrespect for our representatives which voted against it.

Bailout or not - it appears unlikely to have any effect on the current credit market (nor the economic climate). There are better things to spend $700B on besides bad paper that the government has no business getting involved with.

[JOVARN]

Stupidy and ignorance is to blame along with greed for this mess - but as good neighbors we have to save our minority friends.

When you say Minority. Are you talking about the religious right wing fanatics that gave us Bush. I listened to the hearings yesterday and couldn't believe the democratic and republicans congressman that quoted scripture to explain why they voted against the bill.

How do you see this as a minority issue?
Guess your not voting for Obama

[Show-me]

Here is a prime example of why the bail out bill will not work. Remember the "economic stimulus check"? All that money did nothing but artificially pump up the retail sector. Now that it has been pissed away, now what? Once the $700 billion is pissed away, same thing. Good luck this Christmas.

We are just padding the balance sheets of the lenders that conducted themselves poorly. Once the money is gone they will still not lend capital out freely, so why not rip the band-aid off all at once and let it bleed so that the healing can start.

I know I'm just a country boy, but the more difficult you make thing the more difficult thing can become. Teach people to save their money, not buy it now on credit.

Fundamentally we have poisoned out nation with credit. Our nation operates on credit from foreign investors. The richest nation on the planet can not save a dime as a government or a people and our people are suffering for it because our leaders can not lead by example.

[Show-me]

Now that the people have finally been heard, let them hear you again at election time. Write in Ron Paul or vote Libertarian.

You know everyone joked about ol' Ross Perot and he was spot on. He was just railroaded by the media and the two Party system.

[Birchtree]

Thanks to political affirmative action black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded. These unfortunately are the people that were unqualified borrowers and are now creating this mess for the entire financial system. Allowing the Donkeys to place all their add ons to the bill has come close to wrecking the financial industry. Country Wide was just trying to please the 1999 Donkey Congressional mandate to allow more minority homeownership by reducing the qualifying standards - I say again you cannot pay a mortgage off of a welfare check. It's just not feasable or appropriate. I have paid my own price by owning FNM, FRE, LEH, WB - but I knew what I was doing speculating in these stocks so I take full responsibility for my own loss. But I have at least 30 more in the financial industry that will undoubtedly survive. Don't let our friends drown because they reached for touch trying to achieve the American dream of homeownership even if their house is twice the size of yours.

[wv-girl]

Here is a prime example of why the bail out bill will not work. Remember the "economic stimulus check"? All that money did nothing but artificially pump up the retail sector. Now that it has been pissed away, now what? Once the $700 billion is pissed away, same thing. Good luck this Christmas.

We are just padding the balance sheets of the lenders that conducted themselves poorly. Once the money is gone they will still not lend capital out freely, so why not rip the band-aid off all at once and let it bleed so that the healing can start.

I know I'm just a country boy, but the more difficult you make thing the more difficult thing can become. Teach people to save their money, not buy it now on credit.

Fundamentally we have poisoned out nation with credit. Our nation operates on credit from foreign investors. The richest nation on the planet can not save a dime as a government or a people and our people are suffering for it because our leaders can not lead by example.

They want to keep us in debt. That is how they make $. I guess its back to basics. Already planning my garden for spring. Good thing I don't have to have meat to survive. (Although I do like a nice steak, well... when I can afford one) opps..making myself hungry here. Where's NUTT?
:laugh:

[amoeba]

Hmmm: If memory serves - that useless stimulus was a check, and I spent it on a fishing rod. The bailout is a check to someone else, from me and everyone else - in the amount of ~$2,500 or so per person, to buy rotten debt from a bank - in the hope (and an unlikely one - in my opinion) -
that it will result (probably not - says the credit market) - in more land cheaper short term credit.

Just what we don't need.

No thanks. Think of something else, Hank, or go back to Goldman Sachs, if they're still in business.

[Show-me]

There is a documentary on Showtime called Maxed Out or something to that effect. "Credit card companies send credit card applications to people that file bankruptcy for two reasons. 1. The have a taste for credit and 2. they are willing to make minimum payments." You tell me who is taking advantage of whom. A college professor spoke at a banking conference and explained how to screen out the people that would potentially miss payments or default and the most powerful person in the room spoke up and said that those are the people we make money off of.

Come on, get a clue people. They are scamming the tax payer to cover at least $700 billion in losses, with NO GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL START LENDING.

[Show-me]

You have a bigger voice now than in a long time because the only thing right now that matters the the folk that are elected is VOTES. YOUR VOTES!

[Show-me]

If it were not for the votes they would have rammed it down our throats. The fear of the voter has set them back and we need to clean both Houses of Congress.

It is time for fiscal responsibility and accountability on all levels. Look at what the former Comptroller of the GAO, David Walker has said about our fiscal situation. It is not sustainable and now we want to add $700 billion to the problem so that we can at least say we tried. I DON'T THINK SO!

[Show-me]

Bring the pain, it is needed in order to cure the cancer that is credit.

Me thinks my rant is over. Sorry folks, I get passionate at times like these.:embarrest:

[Birchtree]

Hey, you can always sell some of that fabulous honey you've been hoarding to tie up your loose ends. I recently had a credit card company reduce my outstanding credit availability from $25K to $7.5K, so I payed them off and told them I would no longer require their services unless they restored my credit ceiling - they promptly restored my $25K limit within two weeks. And now I'm into them at 1.99% until paid in full again. I love my credit card company - they are so nice.

[wv-girl]

Bring the pain, it is needed in order to cure the cancer that is credit.

Me thinks my rant is over. Sorry folks, I get passionate at times like these.:embarrest:

Its OK. I think you are speaking for all(or most) of us on the MB(if not most Americans). Behind you all the way. Feel free to rant anytime.(its not good to hold it in...causes ulcers)

[350zCommTech]

Bring the pain, it is needed in order to cure the cancer that is credit.

Me thinks my rant is over. Sorry folks, I get passionate at times like these.:embarrest:

No need to apologize. Paulson and his gang of thieves are trying to rob us. We need to stop it again. Phone and fax your senators and congressmen now.

[Birchtree]

But don't you realize they are robbing for a good cause - do you want riots again. They are trying to save the minority at risk homeowner - where's your neighborly compassion. The Huxtables are living down the street in the McMansion on the corner. They may torch the home if it goes to foreclosure and the fire will spread.

[Show-me]

Hey, you can always sell some of that fabulous honey you've been hoarding to tie up your loose ends. I recently had a credit card company reduce my outstanding credit availability from $25K to $7.5K, so I payed them off and told them I would no longer require their services unless they restored my credit ceiling - they promptly restored my $25K limit within two weeks. And now I'm into them at 1.99% until paid in full again. I love my credit card company - they are so nice.

My mother came from the old world, stood in bread lines, and she would kill me dead if I had a credit card with a $25k limit that carried a balance. She had a fit over my student loans and gave me a no interest loan to pay them off because she could not sleep at night. You don't need the credit or the balance, what gives?

[Show-me]

But don't you realize they are robbing for a good cause - do you want riots again. They are trying to save the minority at risk homeowner - where's your neighborly compassion. The Huxtables are living down the street in the McMansion on the corner. They may torch the home if it goes to foreclosure and the fire will spread.

Sorry dude, not where I live.

[wv-girl]

No need to apologize. Paulson and his gang of thieves are trying to rob us. We need to stop it again. Phone and fax your senators and congressmen now.
Just like we were robbed by the Thrift board. Lots of us could have made Thousands of $ in the last two days if we had the original rules in place. Damn Tracey Ray and the lot of them.

[wv-girl]

But don't you realize they are robbing for a good cause - do you want riots again. They are trying to save the minority at risk homeowner - where's your neighborly compassion. The Huxtables are living down the street in the McMansion on the corner. They may torch the home if it goes to foreclosure and the fire will spread.
Wonder just how much more the protestors in NY will take before violence overcomes them? From the looks of the videos, not much. They were pretty ticked off.

[Miss_Piggy]

I have a hard time believing and understanding how if we as taxpayers provide our monies to save a few but gigantic institutions (rich, greedy and probably criminal) will benefit and will suffer individually (in our own pockets) if we don’t.

Can anyone help me understand? I'd appreciate any details in simple language.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/happy/C_10CH162.gif Thanks everyone!

[Show-me]

Miss Piggy,

I hope you did get a some what competent answer you were looking for.

[Birchtree]

I like the security my friend - it's the security. Now that I have it they won't take it back. Heck, that is not the only card I have. The world revolves on credit especially when it comes to your credit score - one needs a demonstrated history over years to show how responsible financial management works. I sat on one card one time for four years waiting on them to reduce their interest rates and when they did I sent the money to Merrill to buy beaten up stocks. We all have our particular vices - mine is owning as many stocks for my base as possible. Yesterday I paid a price for my binging and today I recouped some of that deficit. The next move in the mega trend secular bull market will take me to new endearing heights - I can almost smell the superlative bull manure. This housing correction will clear the air for the beginning stages of the next prolific bubble - I just don't know where that will be yet - but I'm constantly on vigilance.

[ChemEng]

I sat on one card one time for four years waiting on them to reduce their interest rates and when they did I sent the money to Merrill to buy beaten up stocks.Doesn't that count as a cash advance? I agree there are arbitrage opportunities available with credit cards, but they are extremely rare these days.

[350zCommTech]

But don't you realize they are robbing for a good cause - do you want riots again. They are trying to save the minority at risk homeowner - where's your neighborly compassion. The Huxtables are living down the street in the McMansion on the corner. They may torch the home if it goes to foreclosure and the fire will spread.

Birchtree,

What do you call what happened to you yesterday in the market? What about the raping that you took on FNM/FRE? Or was that consensual?:laugh:

Hank Paulson stated a month or two ago that FNM/FRE were well capitalized and didn't need any assistance. You were obviously lied to. But you were blinded by your own bull-**** and thus, failed to cut your loses.

How about WB? Or AIG? Or your TSP YTD?

And why do you keep posting garbage? Don't you have anything intellectual to contribute?

I should stop here. This is too much fun....:laugh::laugh::laugh:


I'm sorry Mss. piggy. I'm done here.

[Birchtree]

Z man,

Sometimes for added excitement I like to speculate - it's not always serious investing. Besides I can actually use the mistakes for tax write offs against other profits that were made earlier. My ytd on my tugboat will eventually rise like the phoenix and life will be fine - the longer it takes the better for me - my objective has always been to accumlate as many shares as possible while I'm fortunate enough to make contributions - capital preservation has never been my game and will continue to be a secondary objective. I'm fortunate in that I have the past to remind me of the potential that is waiting. Our present circumstances will be fleeting in relation to the future and the immense potential for those that have the correct discipline. Be right and sit tight. It's simply not always about making money - there are other important strategies and these you will learn as you gain in maturity and experience.

[ChemEng]

Sometimes for added excitement I like to speculate - it's not always serious investing. Besides I can actually use the mistakes for tax write offs against other profits that were made earlier. My ytd on my tugboat will eventually rise like the phoenix and life will be fine - the longer it takes the better for me - my objective has always been to accumlate as many shares as possible while I'm fortunate enough to make contributions - capital preservation has never been my game and will continue to be a secondary objective. I'm fortunate in that I have the past to remind me of the potential that is waiting. Our present circumstances will be fleeting in relation to the future and the immense potential for those that have the correct discipline.Everything you say here also applies to betting on 00 in the roulette wheel in casinos everyweek.

[Birchtree]

Roulette happens to be the only casino game I like - I don't like to be rushed when I'm slowly getting intoxicated.

Chem,
I forgot to answer your credit card question. I used the money as a balance transfer to pay on another card that was used to send the money to Merrill. You can be flexible when you have several cards to jockey funds around with - totally legal.

[McDuck]

I have a hard time believing and understanding how if we as taxpayers provide our monies to save a few but gigantic institutions (rich, greedy and probably criminal) will benefit and will suffer individually (in our own pockets) if we don’t.

Can anyone help me understand? I'd appreciate any details in simple language.

TxgSubmiGt8

[Show-me]

Very good video Greg. Some times it take a while for the truth to come out and the time line is long in this event. Carters heart was in the right place and the idea was nice, just not feasible. Clinton and the Dems did us in and Obamas cashed in.

[XL-entLady]

But don't you realize they are robbing for a good cause - do you want riots again. They are trying to save the minority at risk homeowner - where's your neighborly compassion. The Huxtables are living down the street in the McMansion on the corner. They may torch the home if it goes to foreclosure and the fire will spread.
Oh .... dear ....! :( Some statements are beginning to sound way to "white supremacist" for me. :sick: C'mon, we should be better than that!! :worried:

Lady

[Silverbird]

Sorry dude, not where I live.Not where I live, either, the McMansion folks are not poor, they are VERY unhappy WHITE middle class. They already went to Lowes to buy pitchforks (they don't have backyards, who wants to garden?) and are asking the salesclerk for torches so they can pile into SUVs and drive up to Washington stop this bill. The housing bubble kept our neighborhood very white, it wasn't the Huxtables buying those McMansions!

Actually the housing bubble pop is causing change now. The house prices rose too fast for anyone poor to buy during the bubble. Don't believe for a second these liar loans were for welfare deadbeats, they weren't worth clearing good land for.

Riots are already happening, the mob is already in town, and houses are already getting torched by people hoping that they can pretend they lost their houses to a fire and they can ding their insurance companies for the bill. Yes, there is a mob, but they are AGAINST this BILL.

[XL-entLady]

Riots are already happening, the mob is already in town...
And the Senate is readying the bread and circuses. History repeating itself. :(

Lady

[Guest2]

And the Senate is readying the bread and circuses. History repeating itself. :(

Lady

Unlike the hurried Congress, the Senate will not attempt a vote unless
they are absolutely certain about having enough votes to get it passed.
Tomorrow will truly be interesting and hopefully profitable. ;)