The Great Annuity Rip-Off

[GarySpicuzza]

Kiplinger - Timely - Trusted - Personal Financial Advice

I've found Kiplinger to be the largest collection of financial clueless clowns on the Internet.

THIS (http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/01/annuities.html) article titled The Great Annuity Rip-Off written by Kimberly Lankford is a prime example of just how utterly ignorant Kiplinger is on the topic of annuities in general and FIXED annuities in particular.

What's worse is the fact they allow absolutely false, misleading and inaccurate information to remain on their site.

Let's have some fun with Ms. Lankford by pitting her words against actual fixed annuity contract provisions.

We need to go no further than her opening remarks.
Kimberly Lankford (http://www.kiplinger.com/about/staff/klankford.html) wrote:

Seven years ago, when Alice Bouchard was 85 and needed her money to be easily accessible, an insurance agent sold her a deferred annuity that tied up her money until she was 101. If she had needed to withdraw the money during the first five years after buying the annuity, she would have paid a massive 25% surrender charge.


Now I don't doubt the un-named annuity product had an "ANNUITY DATE" set for 16 years in the future and IF the un-named annuity product did in fact have a 25% surrender charge during the first 5 contract years it would have been because it paid an UP-FRONT interest bonus in the neighborhood of 10% perhaps for ALL new premium going into the contract during the first 5 years. We will never know since she doesn't say which insurance company product she's referencing.

Attorneys, News Media, Stock Brokers and Bankers simply cannot seem to comprehend the plain English meaning of Annuity Contract terminology.

Seniors over age 70 who buy the vast majority of annuities nationwide have no problem understanding:

The Annuity Date (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/AnnuityDate.jpg) printed on the Contract Data (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/ContractData.jpg) page or the Surrender Charge schedule CLEARLY written in BOLD print on the Contract Data page or the plain English terms of the 10% FREE Withdrawal (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FreeWithdrawal.jpg) provision. Please click on the links to see these as they actually appear in most ALL fixed annuity contracts.

On the Contract Data (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/ContractData.jpg) page of a case I just wrote it shows the Annuitant's age 79 and an Annuity Date of 05/16/2034. She will be 105 years old on the Annuity Date.

But what does the Annuity Date mean and can it be changed?

The Annuity Date is the maximum date in the future the Annuitant can hold the contract in tax deferral. On the Annuity one MUST elect a settlement OPTION. The Owner/Annuitant can CHANGE the Annuity Date to ANY date after the first contract year.

So when this clueless clown Kimberly Lankford (http://www.kiplinger.com/about/staff/klankford.html) writes:

"...an insurance agent sold her a deferred annuity that tied up her money until she was 101."


She's referring to the Annuity Date printed on the Contract Data page without an elementary understanding of what that term means in the contract and she either conveniently doesn't inform her reader's the Annuity Date can be changed or simply doesn't know the subject matter on which she's writing about.

Moving on to her next half truth, by the way, a half truth is a lie, also known as, a material misrepresentation:

If she had needed to withdraw the money during the first five years after buying the annuity, she would have paid a massive 25% surrender charge.


Hmmmm, this gives the reader the impression that ANY money withdrawn during the first 5 years would incur "a massive 25% surrender charge."

Really? What about the 10% FREE Withdrawal (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FreeWithdrawal.jpg) provision. Did you forget about that Kimberly or do you just not know or are you purposely misrepresenting yourself again?

A person would have to go out of their way and do extraordinary research to find ANY annuity product sold by any Insurance Company that DOES NOT have a 10% FREE Withdrawal (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FreeWithdrawal.jpg) provision.

Please review the actual fixed annuity contract provisions below.

Please read Ms. Kimberly Lankford's (http://www.kiplinger.com/about/staff/klankford.html) article in its entirety.

Then please post your questions about any of her absurd blanket condemnations regarding an entire insurance product line of which over $200 billion dollars are invested in each and every year and I will be happy to respond.

The Contract Data page:
http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/ContractData.jpg

The Annuity Date clause:
http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/AnnuityDate.jpg

The 10% Free Withdraw provision:
http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FreeWithdrawal.jpg

[SkyPilot]

Bet you sell these things, huh? :nuts:

[GarySpicuzza]

Yes, I have been selling Fixed Annuities, Life Insurance, Disability Income, Medical Insurance and Long Term Care Insurance since 1985 along with comprehensive Estate Planning and the funding of Irrevocable Life Insurance Trusts with Second-to-Die policies.

Thank you for asking.

Did you have a question regarding something written in THIS (http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/01/annuities.html) article you would like for me to answer?

By the way, click HERE (http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investment_products/annuities/equity_index?cmsid=P-983178&lvl1=investment_products&lvl2=annuities) to read exactly correct information from Charles Schwab.


Looking for a retirement savings vehicle offering you higher earnings if the market goes up, yet guaranteed growth even if it doesn't? An equity index annuity from Schwab may be the answer. Index annuities let you participate in the potential growth of an equity index while protecting your savings with minimum guaranteed earnings. This makes them ideal for people who want to participate in the market performance upside without exposing their retirement savings to downside risk.

How do index annuities work?
You purchase an index annuity contract with a single premium payment. Earnings are linked to a formula based on changes in select equity indexes. If the index goes up, you share in the gains, up to the annual interest rate cap. If the market goes down, you're protected—your principal and credited interest can never decrease due to market declines.

Get the best of both worlds.
Index annuities are appealing because like traditional fixed annuities, your principal and credited interest can never decrease due to market declines, with all interest tax-deferred until you make withdrawals. However, index annuities also offer the opportunity for higher returns than many bank or traditional fixed rate vehicles by linking the interest rate to certain equity indexes. Then, when it's time to receive a payout, you can choose from a variety of options to set up a reliable stream of retirement income.

For clients looking to benefit from the performance of leading market indexes while guaranteeing principal protection plus minimum growth, Schwab offers a five-year and a ten-year contract. Choose either the S&P 500® or the Dow Jones Industrial AverageSM as your benchmark.

[ChemEng]

as they actually appear in most ALL fixed annuity contracts.I thought this word use and capitalization was pretty funny. Double speak at its finest...

Wouldnt CFP be better title to get than one you literally make up?

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng, this thread is about THIS (http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/01/annuities.html) article titled The Great Annuity Rip-Off written by Kimberly Lankford and how it's a prime example of just how utterly ignorant Kiplinger is on the topic of annuities in general and FIXED annuities in particular.

Did you have a question regarding something written in THIS (http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/01/annuities.html) article you would like for me to answer?

[Guest2]

A fitting post within such a descriptive thread title.
Thanks Gary! Sharing what you know is appreciated.

Now, if I could only find the time to read the damn things (LoL). :nuts:

[SkyPilot]

Yep, we get it... your'e selling annuities... be sure to pay Tom for your ad... :)

[ChemEng]

You answered the questions you posed in your article thanks to your double speak.


Really? What about the 10% FREE Withdrawal (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FreeWithdrawal.jpg) provision. Did you forget about that Kimberly or do you just not know or are you purposely misrepresenting yourself again?

as they actually appear in most ALL fixed annuity contracts.

"Most all" is not the same thing as "all." Therefore, it is likely she could have been writing about a fixed annuity, that you admit exists, that does not have the 10% redemption clause.

Some more questions:
1. Why didn't you disclose your financial interest about fixed annuities in your initial post?
2. What motivation would Kiplinger's have to misrepresent fixed annuities? On the other hand, what motivation would you have to attack their article?
3. If your position is different and valid, why don't you write up an article as a rebuttal. I'm sure Kiplingers would entertain reviewing it.

As it is, your comments sound very similar in tenor to the UFF/MMA scams that are posted on other various finance boards. So I am inclined not to give them much credence above a person simply trying to make a paycheck.

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng wrote:

"Most all" is not the same thing as "all." Therefore, it is likely she could have been writing about a fixed annuity, that you admit exists, that does not have the 10% redemption clause.
The 10% Free Withdraw provision is a standard contract provision on virtually ALL annuities. I know of no fixed annuity with any company that DOES NOT have a 10% free withdraw provision.

ChemEng the rest of your questions have nothing to with annuity contract provisions much like Ms. Lankford's article doesn't say anything about actual contract provisions and benefits.

Now if you would please take the time to read her article in its entirety and please quote something she wrote I'd be happy to reply.

Please don't make this thread about me personally.

I want the annuity buying public to have the EXACTLY CORRECT information so they can make an informed decision.

I'll ask again just to hammer home the point, READ Kimberly Lankford's article then please copy and paste some outrage regarding an ACTUAL policy provision and I'll reply.

[nnuut]

:D Annuities 3938

[ChemEng]

The 10% Free Withdraw provision is a standard contract provision on virtually ALL annuities.
More double talk--"virtually all" is not the same as "all." Until you can reconcile your language with your intent, then it is possible that she is referring to one of those annuities that does not include that language.

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng,

Please tell me the Insurance Company name and the specific product Ms. Lankford is talking about? Without THAT information she may as well be making up the whole story.

There isn't an annuity contract written that DOES NOT have a free withdrawal provision.

None.
Nada.
Zero.
Not ONE.

10% is the typical MINIMUM, some contracts allow 10% per year but if no withdraws are taken up to 50% cummulative or 20% every other year if no withdraws were taken in the previous year.

Annuity threads are always so much fun because setting aside the Surrender Charge schedule nobody can EVER come up with another negative feature.

ChemEng, tell me something, "OTHER" than the Surrender Charge schedule, what's the "other" negative feature in a FIXED annuity contract.

[ChemEng]

ChemEng, tell me something, "OTHER" than the Surrender Charge schedule, what's the "other" negative feature in a FIXED annuity contract.You are the sale person for these products and you want me to tell you what the negative is? Alrighty then...

That aside, Ill bite. The obvious negative feature for fixed annuities (and any other annuity for that matter) is reduced value for years that markets exceed the fixed return rate. Another negative is the increased cost for the product when compared to other similar products (VPGFX, VPGDX, and VPDFX for example) that are MUCH cheaper.

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng wrote:


The obvious negative feature for fixed annuities (and any other annuity for that matter) is reduced value for years that markets exceed the fixed return rate.


Traditional Fixed Annuities and Fixed Indexed Annuities ARE NOT INVESTMENTS. They are safe money savings instruments much like a bank CD in that respect. To compare money saved in a fixed annuity with money invested in stocks and mutual funds is apples and oranges.

Allow me to re-write your statement to make my point and let's see if anyone would ever write or compare or say the following:

The obvious negative feature for bank CDs (and any other CD for that matter) is reduced value for years that markets exceed the fixed return rate.

The obvious negative feature for Treasury Bonds (and any other bond for that matter) is reduced value for years that markets exceed the fixed return rate.

The obvious negative feature for bank savings accounts (and any other savings for that matter) is reduced value for years that markets exceed the fixed return rate.

Get my point?

By the way, you didn't point out the "other" negative feature in a fixed annuity (aside from the Surrender Charge schedule), you simply compared a SAFE money savings instrument to at risk investment money.


Another negative is the increased cost for the product when compared to other similar products (VPGFX, VPGDX, and VPDFX for example) that are MUCH cheaper.

There is ZERO costs in a FIXED ANNUITY.
In dollars and cents that would be written $0.00.

What has been confused here are costs in VARIABLE ANNUITIES (about 3% per year) with FIXED annuities (0% per year) then compared the non-comparables with mutual funds or stocks.

A Variable Annuity is a bloated pig with lip stick SOLD by the Series 7 Registered Representative crowd who HAD to obtain an insurance license to be able to sell that product. They are the classic day traders playing stocks like a flea market swap meet....with your money.

It is imperative that one understands that point.

Insurance agents DO NOT sell Variable Annuities because they violate they fundamental aspect of "Safety of Principal" inherent in ALL annuities EXCEPT VARIABLE annuities.

Now, what's the "other" negative feature in a fixed annuity setting aside the surrender charge schedule?

Perhaps, before you answer, you may want to read THIS (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=5834) thread titled A Reporter's Guide to Fixed Annuities (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=5834)

[SkyPilot]

I don't believe you will find much success marketing your annuities here. TSP already offers this stuff, and only 1-2% use it. Typically, annuities don't outperform other investment instruments that offer similar if not superior returns and stability. Annuities are another form of insurance, with costly premiums. Bonds, CDs and even savings accounts can produce similar results.

And, for the Fed employee, the G fund pays approximately as well as annuities without the obligations or restrictions. An annuity that provides greater returns will likely be offered to those who will have less time to collect. Annuities do cost, and have a high cost, though those who sell them are adept at confusing and hiding the expenses. This is roughly equivalent to trying to get someone to by Whole or Universal life insurance.

Those who offer annuities do so in hopes that the annuant will never be able to collect a sufficient return so that themselves, may be able retain the principle and the majority of interest earned. Annuities are very expensive income insurance, which is good for the insurance companies but not the annuant.

Before you present material on this board, you should do your homework, understand your audience and the resources already available to them and then determine if your product or service has any value or merit.

And then, you should contact the board Administrator and arrange to remit compensation for your commercial.

However, I suspect your thread has less to do with a desire to "inform" the public than to "sell" to the public.

So, you will soon understand the time you spend trying to convince us of the superior nature of your "product" will likely be a distraction from selling to others who are less informed. Unless you aren't that busy and have the time to devote to this. Then I suppose that tells us much about the state of the "annuity" business.

I challenge you to remove the link and information to your website if your motives are truly alturistic.

If you are really interested in informing the public, I am sure you will support and encourage those intersted to visit the following link http://www.fool.com/retirement/annuities/annuities.htm for an unbiased review of annuities.

[SkyPilot]

Insurance agents DO NOT sell Variable Annuities because they violate they fundamental aspect of "Safety of Principal" inherent in ALL annuities EXCEPT VARIABLE annuities.


This link provides a list of companies that sell Variable Annuities, most of them being insurance companies :nuts:

http://www.thestreet.com/funds/ratings/10359664.html

[Guest2]

Is Gothem being hood-winked ?
Are there alternative goals at work ?
Will Catwoman get her claws into Batman ?
Will Robin ever come out of the closet ?

Stay Tuned Till Next Entry !
Same Bat-Time - Same Bat-Thread !
:nuts:

[ChemEng]

There is ZERO costs in a FIXED ANNUITY.
In dollars and cents that would be written $0.00.
This is, at best, an attempt to deceive and, at worst, a flat out lie.

[SkyPilot]

FIXED[/B] ANNUITY.
In dollars and cents that would be written $0.00.

Fees and Expenses For FIXED ANNUITIES
Most fees and expenses of a fixed annuity are factored into the stated annual percentage rate the investor is quoted. The rate quoted is the rate paid. Fixed annuity fees and expenses generally cover the insurance company's administrative expenses, the cost of offering the annuitization guarantee and profits to the insurance company and sales agent. Some fixed annuities may assess an annual contract fee, typically around $30.


http://www.edwardjones.com/cgi/getHTML.cgi?page=/USA/products/investments/annuities_fixed.html

[SkyPilot]

There isn't an annuity contract written that DOES NOT have a free withdrawal provision.

None.
Nada.
Zero.
Not ONE.

10% is the typical MINIMUM, some contracts allow 10% per year but if no withdraws are taken up to 50% cummulative or 20% every other year if no withdraws were taken in the previous year.

Annuity threads are always so much fun because setting aside the Surrender Charge schedule nobody can EVER come up with another negative feature.


An Escape Clause
Some fixed annuities have a bailout clause, sometimes known as an escape clause, that allows you to surrender your policy without penalty if the interest rate that’s being offered drops below a certain level, often one percentage point less than the previous rate, even if it’s above the guaranteed rate.
However, if an annuity's rate drops significantly, it usually means interest rates in general have dropped; and newly issued fixed annuities are likely to be paying at comparable rates to the one you’re giving up.
And if you transfer your money to a different type of investment or keep the cash, and you’re younger than 59½, you will probably have to pay a 10% premature withdrawal penalty on the amount of taxable earnings you surrender, plus whatever taxes are due on your earnings. If you withdraw only part of the accumulated contract value, the federal government considers that you take earnings first, leaving the principal in the contract. That means you could pay tax on the entire withdrawal amount.
http://www.annuity-strategies.com/fixed_annuities.html

[SkyPilot]

Mr. Spicuzza's universe

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/thetrustgroup

Intentions and agendas revealed and illuminated :eek:

[Miss_Piggy]

Mr. Spicuzza's universe
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/thetrustgroup
Intentions and agendas revealed and illuminated :eek:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/angry/doingmein.gif Oh you are evil SkyPilot!

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/lol/LOL31314437.gif

[GarySpicuzza]

Hmmmm, where should I start?

Do you want to have an intelligent discussion on annuites or NOT?

Do you actually want to know the differrence between a Traditional Fixed Annuity, a Fixed Indexed Annuity, an Immediate Annuity or a Variable Annuity and who sells what or NOT?

This site has a forum titled Retirement Planning and under that there is a sub-forum titled Annuities. It's my guess that's where postings on annuities should placed.

Okay, where was I?

SkyPilot wrote:


This link provides a list of companies that sell Variable Annuities, most of them being insurance companies :nuts:

SkyPilot ONLY an INSURANCE COMPANY and a Licensed Insurance Agent can sell ANY annuity. PERIOD. END of STORY.

A specific type of annuity known as a VARIABLE annuity are SOLD by stock brokers who HAD to get an insurance license to be able to sell the infamous bloated pig with lip stick known as a VARIABLE annuity.

INSURANCE AGENTS DO NOT SELL VARIABLE ANNUITIES. VARIABLE ANNUITIES ARE SOLD BY STOCK BROKERS.

The first thing that has to be understood here is that VARIABLE annuities and FIXED annuities ARE TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE PRODUCTS LINES and they are sold independently by competing financial services sectors.

SkyPilot wrote:

Most fees and expenses of a fixed annuity are factored into the stated annual percentage rate the investor is quoted. The rate quoted is the rate paid. Fixed annuity fees and expenses generally cover the insurance company's administrative expenses, the cost of offering the annuitization guarantee and profits to the insurance company and sales agent. Some fixed annuities may assess an annual contract fee, typically around $30.
In "other" words traditional FIXED annuities pay a FIXED interest rate declared by the issuing company each and every contract year and that rate is guaranteed for that contract year.

There are no "Fees and Expenses" in a FIXED annuity charged against the client's cash value. Would you like me to post a typical annual statement to prove this?

I'll say it AGAIN, FIXED annuities ARE NOT Variable annuites.

SkyPilot wrote:

And if you transfer your money to a different type of investment or keep the cash, and you’re younger than 59½, you will probably have to pay a 10% premature withdrawal penalty on the amount of taxable earnings you surrender, plus whatever taxes are due on your earnings. If you withdraw only part of the accumulated contract value, the federal government considers that you take earnings first, leaving the principal in the contract. That means you could pay tax on the entire withdrawal amount.
The above paragraph is True and False.
Partly correct and partly wrong.
And if taken as a whole it's absurd and really has NOTHING TO WITH ANNUITIES IN PARTICULAR.

The 10% penalty prior to age 59 1/2 is an IRS penalty that's accessed on ALL qualified and non-qualified pension plans. You can however by way of what's known as a 1035 exchange transfer your money from/to any other annuity TAX FREE.

Annuities are taxed LIFO, Last IN (interest) First OUT (interest)

Now since the vast majority of FIXED annuity premium is invested by Seniors typically over the age of 70 withdrawals prior to age 59 1/2 is absurd.

SkyPilot wrote:

Intentions and agendas revealed and illuminated

Really?

On post #2 of this thread SkyPilot asked:

Bet you sell these things, huh? :nuts:

I answered him on post #3 of this thread:


Yes, I have been selling Fixed Annuities, Life Insurance, Disability Income, Medical Insurance and Long Term Care Insurance since 1985 along with comprehensive Estate Planning and the funding of Irrevocable Life Insurance Trusts with Second-to-Die policies.

Thank you for asking.

Did you have a question regarding something written in THIS (http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/01/annuities.html) article you would like for me to answer?

By the way, click HERE (http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investment_products/annuities/equity_index?cmsid=P-983178&lvl1=investment_products&lvl2=annuities) to read exactly correct information from Charles Schwab.

ChemEng wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarySpicuzza http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?p=165931#post165931)
There is ZERO costs in a FIXED ANNUITY.
In dollars and cents that would be written $0.00.

This is, at best, an attempt to deceive and, at worst, a flat out lie.


ChemEng please post who's the insurance company and the product name of a FIXED annuity that charges annual fees and expenses against a client cash value each and every year.

There are ZERO, NADA, NIL, NONE.

Traditional FIXED annuities and FIXED Indexed annuities ARE NOT Variable Annuities.

Now there are INCOME ACCOUNT riders that can be added on FIXED indexed annuities. The insurance company will then guaranteed the LIFETIME INCOME ACCOUNT to grow at 6% per year and then will base the payout on the the GREATER of the Actual Account Value or the INCOME ACCOUNT. The typical annual fee for that feature is 4/10 tenths of one percent AND IT'S RARELY ADDED.

[ChemEng]

Let me remind you what you said first:

There is ZERO costs in a FIXED ANNUITY.
In dollars and cents that would be written $0.00.

Now look at what you are claiming:

...that charges annual fees and expenses against a client cash value each and every year.

See how they arent the same (again)? More mindless salesperson double talk.

When you're in a hole, it's best to stop digging.

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng,

I understand the sometimes difficulty in communicating via Internet message boards. Since my written words must NOT be acceptable to you, I'll try math.

In a traditional FIXED annuity, if the insurance company declares 5% to be the interest rate they will pay on the traditional FIXED annuity and if a person paid $100,000 in premium at the end of a one year period the person would have an account value of $105,000.

There ARE NO fees, there ISN'T ANY expences, there ARE NOT any charges whatsoever. Did I make that clear enough?

A traditional FIXED annuity pays an absolutely known and FIXED interest rate declared by the company EACH and EVERY contract year.

A traditional Fixed annuity is NOT a Variable Annuity.

Ammended Second request:

ChemEng please post the insurance company and the product name of a FIXED annuity that charges annual/semi- annual/quarterly/monthly/daily fees and expenses against a client cash value.

BEFORE you waste your time attemping to find something that simply DOES NOT exist you may want to read THIS (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=5834) thread.




Fixed Annuities Don’t Have Fees

The way a fixed annuity credits interest may best be compared with the way a bank credits certificate of deposit interest. The bank says they will pay 4% interest on the CD. Okay, what are the bank’s fees and expenses on this CD? If your answer is you can’t tell and it doesn’t matter because all you really care about is the final rate you get on your money, the same logic applies to fixed annuities.

The insurance company doesn’t deduct a management fee and share a net return with the customer. Instead, just like the bank, the insurer pays a fixed return, and this may be stated as a fixed rate or as fixed participation in an index.

Might some banks have lower operating costs or higher revenues than another and thus offer a higher rate? Yes, and an insurer could spend less on office supplies than another insurer and thereby ultimately be able to pay a higher rate on fixed annuities. But I don’t know how you translate all of this into fees?

Do some annuities have fees? Yes. These are called variable annuities and they work a lot like mutual funds.

Best regards.

[ChemEng]

I understand the sometimes difficulty in communicating via Internet message boards.Let us be perfectly clear--its your double talk that is making this discussion difficult. Nothing more, nothing less.

A quick google on "fixed annuity cost" showed the following on EdwardJones.com. And surprisingly, they say that there are fees and expenses--some are paid out of pocket and some are paid with a reduced annuity percentage.

Fees and Expenses
Most fees and expenses of a fixed annuity are factored into the stated annual percentage rate the investor is quoted. The rate quoted is the rate paid. Fixed annuity fees and expenses generally cover the insurance company's administrative expenses, the cost of offering the annuitization guarantee and profits to the insurance company and sales agent. Some fixed annuities may assess an annual contract fee, typically around $30.

[SkyPilot]

The truth is Mr. Spicuzza has been banned or addressed on any number of forums for exactly the nonsense he is participating in here. As it is clear he is not busy selling annuities, he has sufficient time to rant on this site.

He has the tenacity of a pyramid marketer selling mangosteen juice...

For more information just Google "Gary Spicuzza" and all will be made clear. :)

His avatar says it all.... http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)

[Jackbnimble]

This has been the most entertaining thread in quiet some time. The good news is that while Gary was busy typing away he was not out selling these things to our unsuspecting parents and grandparents. Since there are "NO FEES" he will have to find a new line of work unless he is just doing this out of the goodness of his heart, which I seriously doubt...:D

[ChemEng]

This has been the most entertaining thread in quiet some time. The good news is that while Gary was busy typing away he was not out selling these things to our unsuspecting parents and grandparents. Since there are "NO FEES" he will have to find a new line of work unless he is just doing this out of the goodness of his heart, which I seriously doubt...:DIts exactly like saying payday loans have no fees because you dont pay them upfront! Insane.

[SkyPilot]

This has been the most entertaining thread in quiet some time. The good news is that while Gary was busy typing away he was not out selling these things to our unsuspecting parents and grandparents. Since there are "NO FEES" he will have to find a new line of work unless he is just doing this out of the goodness of his heart, which I seriously doubt...:D

Here, here!!!! :)

[Guest2]

Googled ! Yuk !

A sayings come to mind;
"Don't feed the animals"

The man has just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

I will not feed his need for attention, nor visit his thread again.
Should he come calling, he will be ignored, plain and simple.

This site is too good for such abuses, here's hoping he breaks a
rule and opens the door to banishment, couldn't happen soon enough.

CIAO :mad:

[SkyPilot]

Criminals who sell annuities...

http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/retirement/2005/08/04/the-quotcriminalsquot-who-sell-annuities.aspx

He also makes home movies... http://www.ulead.com/userstory/vs/garyspicuzza.htm

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592) http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)

[SkyPilot]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/angry/doingmein.gif Oh you are evil SkyPilot!


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/mptsp/smileys/lol/LOL31314437.gif



Not the first time that has been said! :nuts:

Wow! I just went from TEAM TSP to CLUB TSP... Thanks for having me!!!

[ChemEng]

I am curious now if his "safe" fixed annuity is also inflation adjusted. If not it could be really bad news for those he sells to in their 60s...

[SkyPilot]

I am curious now if his "safe" fixed annuity is also inflation adjusted. If not it could be really bad news for those he sells to in their 60s...

Don't bother with those details... he is probably making home movies of himself wrestling... (Google that :D) kinda creepy for a hobby.... Wrestling Highlight Videos (http://www.wrestling-videos.net/)

The "Countryside Wrestling Moves" video, to the right, is a collection of wrestling "techniques" ... Gary Spicuzza - P.O. Box 1960 - Palm Harbor, FL 34682 ...
www.wrestling (http://www.<b>wrestling</b>)-videos.net/ - 2k
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS265&q=gary+spicuzza+wrestling

http://www.trustgroup.info/images/114_GaryS2.jpg

Anyway, it is SAFE because he is a *Self Appointed Financial Expert... not because it doesn't figure in the cost of inflation (oops).

Usually one is "self appointed" because no one else will do it for them... The next step is "self annointed"...

here it comes...

wait for it...

wait for it...

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)

[Jackbnimble]

Let's not make him mad, lest he put us in a headlock.:D

WWE was his first choice but selling "No Fee" Fixed "Not Variable" annuities was #2.:D

On that web page it has a link to the Florida High School "Wrastling" forum and the Estate & Fixed Annuities forum. Gary if only you knew that I was looking for those 2 together just last week.:D

Ok I am done.

[GarySpicuzza]

Well their is nothing quite like an intelligent, substantive discussion on an entire insurance product line known as annuites.

ChemEng I will ask you for the third (3rd) time:

Please post the name of the Insurance Company and the Product Name that is a traditional FIXED annuity that has any fees, costs or expenses that are deducted from a client's account value.

There is ONLY the surrender charge schedule and NOTHING else.

Fixed Annuities and Fixed Indexed Annuities are not designed for someone to put their money in and take it right back out like the day traders playing stocks like a flea market swap meet.

Please study the actual client statement below, do the math, then tell me if the client DOES NOT receive exactly the stated amount of interest.

Please point out to the less informed General Public EXACTLY where these mythical fees and expenses are deducted from a clients money? I simply can't find them but you insist they are there,....somewhere?

SHOW-ME.

Where are they?

Certainly in the vast wealth of information on the Internet there should be at least one (1) singular instance of a client statement posted by an annuity detractor that clearly supports your position.





http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FixedAnnuityStatement.jpg

[ChemEng]

Are you serious? Your 3% fixed annuities are about 25% lower than *todays* inflation rate (http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/CurrentInflation.asp)... Right out of the gate your products are loosing value for your customer.

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng our point of contention was whether or not traditional FIXED annuities have any fees and/or expenses other than the surrender charge schedule.

THEY DO NOT.

The insurance company declares the FIXED interest rate for that contract year and that is EXACTLY what is paid.

Remember this thead and this topic is about THIS (http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/01/annuities.html) article written by Kimberly Lankford (http://www.kiplinger.com/about/staff/klankford.html), *CCC from Kiplinger's.

Ms. Lankford's opening statement for her article was:

Unscrupulous agents take advantage of seniors with risky investments that cost too much.

Since we've learned FIXED annuities aren't risky nor do they have any fees EXCEPT for the surrender charge schedule, her opening statement to be journalistically accurate should read:

Unscrupulous stock brokers take advantage of seniors with risky VARIABLE annuity investments that cost too much.

And just so you know..... Stock Brokers SELL the vast majority of ALL annuities sold nationwide.

http://www.indexannuity.org/index_94.gif


Moving on to the "OTHER" type of FIXED annuity known as a FIXED Indexed Annuity.

How is EXCESS interest credited?

A picture is worth a thousand words!

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/IndexedAnnuityMethod.gif






Kimberly Lankford (http://www.kiplinger.com/about/staff/klankford.html), *CCC = Certified Clueless Clown

[ChemEng]

Since we've learned FIXED annuities aren't riskyWrong. The graphic you posted here (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=166167&postcount=37) exposes your client heavily to inflationary risk. Repeating myself again, your 3% annuity is about 25% less than todays inflation rate (http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/CurrentInflation.asp). This means your client is loosing value right out of the gate.

Address this issue before your try to move the conversation forward with more non-sequitur comments.

[SkyPilot]

The "FIX" is in... by "The Self ANNOINTED".

The only one convinced by these assertions are the poor saps who buy the annuities. The "insurance" agent already knows the truth.

The more charts you need to make your point, the less likely it is your point is valid.

Use this as a warning for your parents that there is yet another scam out there waiting to steal them blind.

Stick to CD, Bond funds, etc... that provide the same or better returns, are entirely secure and are much more liquid.


More interesting reading...
http://forums.kiplinger.com/printthread.php?t=7557&page=6&pp=15

James K. Blankenship, CFP,
PLAINTIFF

Vs.

Gary D, Spicuzza,
Defendant.
_______________/

Judgment for the Plaintiff for $500,000 Dollars.

[luv2read]

SkyPilot,

Interesting reading? Now that is really, really evil!:laugh:

[SkyPilot]

SkyPilot,

Interesting reading? Now that is really, really evil!:laugh:

Yes, yes it is :nuts::nuts::nuts:!!!

[Birchtree]

Why is everybody picking on poor Gary? Fixed annuties provide a valuable service to many people regardless of any inherent fees. The fear that most folks have is running out of money during retirement and the annuity protects that security. The only problem is that the insurance industry uses the actuarial concept as to how long you will live. The risk is for the individual to assume - die early and the company keeps the money for providing you the lifetime annuity - seems only fair to me.

[luv2read]

Why is everybody picking on poor Gary? Fixed annuties provide a valuable service to many people regardless of any inherent fees. The fear that most folks have is running out of money during retirement and the annuity protects that security. The only problem is that the insurance industry uses the actuarial concept as to how long you will live. The risk is for the individual to assume - die early and the company keeps the money for providing you the lifetime annuity - seems only fair to me.
I like reverse mortgages better...

[SkyPilot]

Why is everybody picking on poor Gary? Fixed annuties provide a valuable service to many people regardless of any inherent fees. The fear that most folks have is running out of money during retirement and the annuity protects that security. The only problem is that the insurance industry uses the actuarial concept as to how long you will live. The risk is for the individual to assume - die early and the company keeps the money for providing you the lifetime annuity - seems only fair to me.

Maybe he can sell one to you? :nuts:

Don't really think you would bite, or recommend this fellow to your parents either. I am guessing you would put them in well rated bond funds or CD's, or go the reverse mortgage route. A certified or licensed financial planner should be consulted if one's fear is substantial enough to consider this kind of tool.

To buy this kind of "insurance" is to assume a great amount of expense to achieve the goal of security.

Maybe that's why insurance companies sell them:confused:

[SkyPilot]

The truth is Mr. Spicuzza has been banned or addressed on any number of forums for exactly the nonsense he is participating in here. As it is clear he is not busy selling annuities, he has sufficient time to rant on this site.

He has the tenacity of a pyramid marketer selling mangosteen juice...

For more information just Google "Gary Spicuzza" and all will be made clear. :)

His avatar says it all.... http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)....

[tsptalk]

I agree, if Gary is here to sell us any products, we have a problem. Although skeptical at first, I found his original posts somewhat informative and thought it would helpful to others. But I knew if there was any talk of products he is selling, he would be breaking the TOS.

The question is, did he bring it up, or did our members? I'll have to read some old posts to see.

[SkyPilot]

Yes, I have been selling Fixed Annuities, Life Insurance, Disability Income, Medical Insurance and Long Term Care Insurance since 1985 along with comprehensive Estate Planning and the funding of Irrevocable Life Insurance Trusts with Second-to-Die policies.

Thank you for asking.



http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng, I'll get to your inflation point when I get to it.

Okay, where was I?

Ah yes, moving on to Fixed Indexed Annuities.

Let's first start with an actual client statement. The particular product below paid a 7% up-front premium bonus [Strings and Surrender Charges Attached] and the client received 16.54% indexed interest. He started out the year with $26,628 and ended the year with $33,207. A $6,579 total gain or 24.71%.

Now it doesn't take a financial genius to figure out why these products are so popular. Even a Self Appointed Financial Expert (SAFE) can understand the ability to particpate in "SOME" of the gains of the stock market without risking one penny of principal is a compelling situation. The absolute worst thing that could happen to a client's money would be 0% interest credited if the market was flat or went down but with ALL principal SAFE and sound.

Are there any questions about what Ms. Lankford wrote in her article about indexed annuities versus the facts?

What I find most interesting is comparing her words against Charles Schwab's. How on Earth can they be talking about the EXACT same product line?

Click HERE (http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investment_products/annuities/equity_index?cmsid=P-983178&lvl1=investment_products&lvl2=annuities)

I couldn't have said it better myself, Chuck.


http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/PhilipClientActualEarnings.jpg

[ChemEng]

ChemEng, I'll get to your inflation point when I get to it.:rolleyes:

The problem isnt the reduced upside of these products, its their associated risks (which do include inflation). AND JUST BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE NOT TO ADDRESS THESE RISKS DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T EXIST.

[Rod]

I agree, if Gary is here to sell us any products, we have a problem. Although skeptical at first, I found his original posts somewhat informative and thought it would helpful to others. But I knew if there was any talk of products he is selling, he would be breaking the TOS.

The question is, did he bring it up, or did our members? I'll have to read some old posts to see.

I also found his posts informative. But, if he doesn't have a TSP account, his motives for posting should be brought into question since he does sell annuities.

He should have a TSP account (perhaps he does), or at the very least an option available to establish one. If not, then why is he really here?

[roskopfm]

annunities are good for people that want consistancy. If you want to know exactly what you will be getting, then its a great move. The thing you give up is the potential upside. Althought the market has had bad times, over time it goes up 6-8% annually. I would rather take the chance to make more money and do it on my own instead of an annunity.:o

[Guest2]

Don't Feed The Need and It'll go Away. TSP or Not. After Googling his
name and reading other Forums, Kiplingers etc.... One might think that
he thrives on contoversy and feeds off the attention like a bear in a
honey jar before winter. "Don't Feed The Animals"

[GarySpicuzza]

Before I move on to Immediate Annuities then last and least Variable Annuities I'll address ChemEng points which are a valid issue of discussion.

ChemEng wrote on post #38:


Are you serious? Your 3% fixed annuities are about 25% lower than *todays* inflation rate (http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/CurrentInflation.asp)... Right out of the gate your products are loosing value for your customer.


ChemEng followed on post #40:


Wrong. The graphic you posted here (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=166167&postcount=37) exposes your client heavily to inflationary risk. Repeating myself again, your 3% annuity is about 25% less than todays inflation rate (http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/CurrentInflation.asp). This means your client is loosing value right out of the gate.

Address this issue before your try to move the conversation forward with more non-sequitur comments.


ChemEng again on post #51 wrote:


The problem isnt the reduced upside of these products, its their associated risks (which do include inflation). AND JUST BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE NOT TO ADDRESS THESE RISKS DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T EXIST.

ChemEng is attempting to make a point about SAFE money savings instruments, that because of inflation, a person would be better off financially to have their money at risk with investments the stock market.

Once again a picture is worth a thousand words.

The graphic below depicts what happens to $100,000 when the market goes down.

What would happen with the same $100,000 in a FIXED Indexed Annuity.

What would happen with the same $100,000 in a Traditional FIXED annuity.

The second graphic shows the impossible gains one would have to recieve in the market to just keep even with a SAFE money savings instrument just limpimg along at 5% per year.

Tell me something ChemEng....
How well does a 25% loss of principal keep up with inflation?

Best regards.

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FixedAnnuityRiskProtection.gif

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/FixedAnnuity-vs-ImpossibleReturns.gif

[ChemEng]

Tell me something ChemEng....
How well does a 25% loss of principal keep up with inflation?
No--The question on the table was how does the 3% fixed annuity that *you* a "SAFE" investment in a 4% inflation environment? Somehow in that mess of a message, you managed to avoid answering that simple question...

[wv-girl]

No--The question on the table was how does the 3% fixed annuity that *you* a "SAFE" investment in a 4% inflation environment? Somehow in that mess of a message, you managed to avoid answering that simple question...
In addition to ChemEng question, I have one. And no I am not interested in purchasing, but I would like to know how you make your money. Do you get a percent of what you sell? How are you compensated for your efforts?

[SkyPilot]

G-fund.... 10 year compounded annual return is 5.12% and is totally liquid for the account holder in retirement.

For the TSP participant, any annuity would likely:
-produce less income than even the G fund
-include built in inflation exposure
-rob their estate of the capital investment

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng, your inflation argument pointed toward a traditional FIXED annuity which is a SAFE money savings instrument is absurd.

I thought I made this point relatively crystal clear with the graphic I posted but I have obviously failed.

If three (3) separate people had each invested $100,000 on Aug 31, 2000:

One directly in an S&P 500 index fund;
One in a Fixed Indexed Annuity;
On in a Traditional FIXED annuity:

On Aug 31, 2001, S&P 500 indexed fund would have been worth $74,690.

The Fixed Indexed Annuity would have been worth $100,000.

The Traditional FIXED annutiy would have been worth $105,000.

Yes, I know, the market will come back, it always does.

E - v - e - n - t - u - a - l - l - y.
Maybe?

The market would have to return 17.6% for the next 3 years just to stay even with a SAFE money savings instrument that's just limping along at 5% per year.

Now for a rhetorical question:

If YOU were the investor in S&P 500 indexed fund who lost 25.31% of his money and now only has $74,690 left would you like to trade places with the person who was in the Fixed Indexed Annuity who still has her $100,000 SAFE and sound?

For those of you who just can't seem to wrap your head around why $$$-BILLIONS-$$$ of dollars are poured into Fixed and Fixed Indexed Annuities each year it's because of the Safety of Principal aspect that is inherent in ALL annuities EXCEPT the infamous bloated pig with lip stick our stock broker competitors love to sell known as a Variable Annuity.

By the way, did I post a graphic on what type of returns a client may get in an up cycle year in a Fixed Indexed Annuity WITHOUT risking one penny with day traders playing stocks like a flea market swap meet....with your money.

See graphic below:

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/PhilipClientActualEarnings.jpg

wv-girl asked:

In addition to ChemEng question, I have one. And no I am not interested in purchasing, but I would like to know how you make your money. Do you get a percent of what you sell? How are you compensated for your efforts?
wv-girl, Insurance Agents are paid a commission on each and every form of insurance they write. The insurance companies have a problem when it comes to agent commissions on annuities.

They have to pay an agent about the same amount of money for about the same amount of time and effort spent the agent would have earned anyway by simply selling other forms of insurance.

If you are wanting to know what the averages are, the "average" annuity writing agent commission is 5% paid ONE-TIME-ONLY and the average annuity premium is $40,000.

On "average" I make way more money with life insurance and long term care than I do with annuities but the news media loves to pay attention to annuities. I guess it's because it's simple math.

They must get hung up on figuring 90% first year commission and 10% renewals on Long Term Care Insurance or 105% target commission for life insurance. But if you did the math you'd find the agent made on a $4,000 annual premium for LTCi, $3,600 first year commission and $400 renewal commission every year the policy stays inforce and renews.

I just wrote a $3 million dollar, Second-to-Die Life Insurance policy to fund an Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust and the "target premium" was $35,000.

Do the first year commission math on that, then let's talk about the chump change that's paid on annuities.

Do you understand now the point I made above about how the insurance companies HAVE A PROBLEM when it comes to agent commsissions on annuites?

[ChemEng]

ChemEng, your inflation argument pointed toward a traditional FIXED annuity which is a SAFE money savings instrument is absurd.So why dont you answer the question directly then?

The question on the table is how is the 3% fixed annuity that *you* sell a "SAFE" investment in a 4% inflation environment? Somehow in that mess of a message, you managed to avoid answering that simple question...

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng, inflation is a fact of life.

A dollar today is worth more than a dollar 5 years from now and a dollar 5 years ago is worth more than that same dollar today.

Here's your argument: {CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG}

If a person put $100,000 into a guaranteed 3% traditional FIXED annuity at the end of year one (1) they would have $103,000.

But your point is BECAUSE of a 4% rate of inflation the $100,000 just left alone by itself in the cookie jar is only worth $96,000 at the end of year one (1) because of the 4% inflation hence 3% growth on the $96,000 is really only worth $2,675 because 3% on $96,000 is $2,880 but with a 4% rate of inflation in terms of real dollars the value of the interest earned is only really worth $2,675.

So at the end of one year the person really doesn't have $103,000 in actual purchasing power they only have $98,675.

That's your point. Right?

So they have lost $1,325 by saving $100,000 @ 3%. Right?



That is an absurd argument.



For the 4% rate of inflation to TOTALY effect your pocketbook by 4% one would have to purchase EACH and EVERY item that went into the inflation calculation and they would have to do THAT each and every year.....year after year.

Now, let me asked another rhetorical question:

Do people buy each and every item that goes into the Consumer Price Index, i.e., houses, cars, durable goods, services, consumer appliances, clothing, etc., EACH AND EVERY YEAR?

See THIS (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t01.htm) link.

Moving on to....Immediate Annuities.

NOBODY BUYS THEM.

Period.
End of story.

UNLESS there is a compelling reason to do so, such as, to provide lifetime income for a disabled child or spouse or to SLOW DOWN MediCAID spend down for nursing home benefits or to fund a Qualified Income or Special Needs Trust for MediCAID qualifications.

When you buy an Immediate Annuity you are IRREVOCABLY trading your cash asset for the agreed upon INCOME STREAM and once that has occurred it CANNOT be undone.

That is the reason why NOBODY BUYS THEM, UNLESS there is a compelling reason to do so.

It is also the reason 99% of ALL deferred annuities and NEVER annuitized.

I didn't say people don't take a Lifetime Income Stream from deferred annuities.

I said they are almost always NEVER annuitized.

Which is why the Annuity Date provision reads:

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/AnnuityDate.jpg

[James48843]

Boys-

Calm down please, let's keep things civil.

Please use your "indoor" voices now.

Thank you.

[SkyPilot]

So why dont you answer the question directly then?

The question on the table is how is the 3% fixed annuity that *you* sell a "SAFE" investment in a 4% inflation environment? Somehow in that mess of a message, you managed to avoid answering that simple question...

Gary Spicuzza admits that annuities are a poor tool when inflation is figured in, but he still wants to sell them. LIkely, this is his only income and he is bound to try to meet the monthly bills by marketing this stuff. So, to admit the truth would leave him no defense for doing what he does.

He doesn't like your questions, because his own answers reveals the truth.

Annuities are just really poor tools for investment, and really expensive tools for insurance.

Chem, after reading other forum boards, we know that Gary will never give up the goods. It's just one chart after another showing the same information, and he is the only one that either cannot or will not see the truth.

Ultimately he keeps going until he gets banned from a site, which must make him feel victimized and justified, which is probably what all this really is about...

[GarySpicuzza]

SkyPilot, before I move on to Variable Annuities, I'd like to read your intelligent comments regarding "SOME" of the earnings potential in a FIXED Indexed Annuity.

Please advise the General Public who pour billions of dollars into FIXED Indexed Annuities EACH YEAR EXACTLY what's wrong with receiving, {[strings attached], a 7% up front interest premium bonus} on their savings and then receiving an additional 16.54% interest on the entire balance after one year WITHOUT risking one penny of principal with the day traders playing stocks like a flea market swap meet.


http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/PhilipClientActualEarnings.jpg

[ChemEng]

Im not going to even respond to Gary's inflation post. Its painfully clear what his intentions are and what his education level (academic or otherwise) isn't.

FWIW-- garyspicuzza's posts on TSPTalk has just moved up to #5 on google. People need to see just how uninformed the average insurance product salesmen are.

[Guest2]

And yet, we fed his need through our contineuos participation in this
thread. We stand tall and steadfast to correct his errors, in hopes to
achieve, what can be done with a click of our mouse. Some don't just
love feeding the animals. Some love to feed themselves, which in turn,
ultimately ends up feeding the animal anyway. Ok, I'm full ! Have fun !

[SkyPilot]

And yet, we fed his need through our contineuos participation in this
thread. We stand tall and steadfast to correct his errors, in hopes to
achieve, what can be done with a click of our mouse. Some don't just
love feeding the animals. Some love to feed themselves, which in turn,
ultimately ends up feeding the animal anyway. Ok, I'm full ! Have fun !

I think I agree with what it is I think you said :)

[nnuut]

People he is a SALESMAN tryin to make a living arn't we all? If you learned anything on this thread, this is exctly why we are here. bring on the next one!!! 3986

[GarySpicuzza]

ChemEng, squalebear and SkyPilot:

...Foxxx News Alert...

http://www.foxnews.com/images/163008/3_61_banderas_320.jpg

On the TSP Talk Forums there is a forum catagory titled "Retirement Planning" and under that heading there is a sub-forum titled Annuities.

Have I posted in the wrong section?
Did you know?....

ONLY a Licensed Insurance Agent can sell an annuity upon whatever form.

The best source of information on annuities would be from someone who actually knows what they are talking about regarding specific contract provisions and more importantly it is imperative the General Public understand that a [Traditional FIXED Annuity] IS NOT THE SAME AS A [Fixed Indexed Annuity] WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS A [Variable Annuity] AND NONE OF THE ABOVE ARE .

http://www.foxnews.com/images/36714/9_61_320_HeatherNauert.jpg

...End of Foxxx News Alert...

Okay, where was I?

Yes, I remember, moving on to VARIABLE Annuites.

Now before I go off on an Internet rant on THE infamous BLOATED PIG WITH LIP STICK, known as a Variable Annuity let me say I've seen [I]Variable Annuities that are actively managed by sharp brokers that have performed EXTREMELY well.

A Variable Annuity is an INVESTMENT in mutual funds, bonds and other stock market products then wrapped in an annuity contract. The cash value is subject to the direct upside potential of the market AND ALL the direct downside of the market.

THEY are NOT a SAFE money savings instrument like a bank CD or a U.S. Savings Bond or a Money Market account or a Traditional FIXED Annuity or a Fixed Indexed Annuity.

Variable Annuities violate the fundamental aspect of "Safety of Principal" that is inherent is ALL annuites EXCEPT VARIABLE Annuites.

Remember my statement above?

ONLY a Licensed Insurance Agent can sell an annuity upon whatever form.
While that statement is absolutely true, Insurance Agents DO NOT sell VARIABLE Annuites.

Variable Annuities are sold by the securities industry Registered Representatives who HAD to obtain a Life and Annuity Insurance License to be able to sell THE infamous BLOATED PIG WITH LIP STICK, known as a Variable Annuity.

Guess who SELLS the most annuities nationwide?

Well.... it's the day traders playing stocks like a flea market swap meet with your money.

See 2007 annuity sales graphic below:

http://www.indexannuity.org/index_94.gif

[Guest2]

People he is a SALESMAN tryin to make a living arn't we all? If you learned anything on this thread, this is exctly why we are here. bring on the next one!!!

Norman, its not too often that I disagree with you, but I do (just a little)
non the less. I make a living by working for the Federal Government. My
goal in coming here is two fold. I try to improve my retirement outlook
while trying to help others. In fact, that's what makes this website so
unique. It's membership unselfishly tries to do both without asking for
anything from anybody. Even those members who eventually went on
to offer services for a fee (ie...Ebb...etc) gave freely of themselves
and there systems without asking for a thing. I do understand that this
jewel of ours is open to the public and everyone has a right to write
what they want. However, if the intent is to sell a product, create
controversy for exposure, all in the name of making a living, I believe
there are better suited websites out there to meet his need to produce
income. Of coarse, if Tom wants to charge Gary a 10% user fee for
operating a business within this domain, I certainly wouldn't blame him.
Still, he has a right to be here, to write what he wishes and respond as
he sees fit. Ultimately it's up to me, you and the other TSPtalk members
to decide if they wish to participate in this thread. Should that be their
decision, then by all means, do so with respect. (Originator Included).
:suspicious:

[Guest2]

You got my attention with the pictures, then you lost me with the
words. I'm done, Good Luck In Your Endevors Gary, what ever they be.
:cool:

[luv2read]

You got my attention with the pictures, then you lost me with the
words. I'm done, Good Luck In Your Endevors Gary, what ever they be.
:cool:
Am I allowed to say sex sells?;)

[GarySpicuzza]

luv2read you are too funny!

Here's a picture that caught my attention a while back while doing research for a client with a TSP account.

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/TSP-talk-annuities.gif

The "Annuity" sub-forum was DOA.

So I thought I'd give it a little CPR http://scrapgirls.com.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/default/superhero.gif with my *SAFE designation.

Rhetorical question for all...

Has anybody besides me noticed how NOBODY has challeged a single annuity contract FACT I've written regarding the different types of annuites?

You know how this goes on the net?

Some anonymouse person writes 2 + 2 = 7.

Then some "other" anonymouse person throws their 2 cents in with:

anonymouse person writes 2+2=7.
No, anonymouse, 2 + 2 = 4

Well with THAT the next thing you know you've got an Internet Thread War going on between two or more anonymouse persons.

Best regards.

*SAFE = Self Appointed Financial Expert

Please click on the Gary Spicuzza linky below and enjoy.
I wish I would have written those words, they paint a vivid picture.

[ChemEng]

In case anyone is still reading this thread, Gary is using the classic strawman argument technique. This style of debate carries very little worth because the initial position is never addressed (although Im sure its a great rhetorical device to help sell contracts). It tends to follow the following form:

1. Person A has position X. (3% fixed annuity isnt safe investment in 4% inflation.)
2. Person B ignores X and instead presents position Y. (How well does a 25% loss of principal keep up with inflation?)
3. Person B attacks position Y. (If YOU were the investor in S&P 500 indexed fund who lost 25.31% of his money and now only has $74,690 left would you like to trade places with the person who was in the Fixed Indexed Annuity who still has her $100,000 SAFE and sound?)
4. Person B draws a conclusion that X is false/incorrect/flawed. (your inflation argument pointed toward a traditional FIXED annuity which is a SAFE money savings instrument is absurd)

[SkyPilot]

l



Has anybody besides me noticed how NOBODY has challeged a single annuity contract FACT I've written regarding the different types of annuites?



Actually, both challenged and refuted many times (read the thread here, or Google GarySpicuzza for more forum fun).

I know, now he will challenge and ask for specifics, give another equation and then declare how great annuities are.... and declare again no one has disputed any of his FACTS :D

Bet he wishes he could have a TSP account... but then he wouldn't need to seek out the uniformed to try to sucker into his annuity scheme...

[luv2read]

Actually, both challenged and refuted many times (read the thread here, or Google GarySpicuzza for more forum fun).

I know, now he will challenge and ask for specifics, give another equation and then declare how great annuities are.... and declare again no one has disputed any of his FACTS :D

Bet he wishes he could have a TSP account... but then he wouldn't need to seek out the uniformed to try to sucker into his annuity scheme...
Is he related to any of FRTIB members? Seems like he uses the same logic...

[GarySpicuzza]

SkyPilot wrote:

... but then he wouldn't need to seek out the uniformed to try to sucker into his annuity scheme...

SkyPilot could you explain to the General Public why Ben Bernake the chairman of the Federal Reserve has the bulk of his cash asset split between two (2) annuities?

One of those annuities is a Traditional FIXED Annuity and the other is a Variable Annuity. Both are valued between $500,000 and $1,000,000. For the mathematically challenged this means he has a minimum of $1,000,000 and a maximum of $2,000,000 of his cash asset invested in annuities.

Click HERE (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/BenBernake07.pdf) to review Ben Bernanke (http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/12/127233/BenBernake07.pdf) 2007 Public Financial Disclosure Form.

ChemEng:
You are obviously still hung up on your inflation argument regarding a 3% GUARANTEED rate of growth on a Traditional Fixed Annuity but don't seem to have anything bad to say about the client who got the 7% interest premium bonus up front followed by a 16.54% gain on all funds at the end of his first year for a total gain of 24.71% without subjecting one penny of his money to market risk.

Would someone PLEASE copy and paste something I've written on this thread regarding:

1) a Traditional FIXED annuity;

2) a Fixed Indexed Annuity;

3) a Variable Annuity; or

4) an Immediate Annuity,

that is FACTUALLY INCORRECT?

[luv2read]

He's citing Ben as an example of financial acumen???:nuts:

Now I KNOW he has to be related to FRTIB.

[SkyPilot]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)

[GarySpicuzza]

http://www.barbandgreg.com/images/Emoticons/penbox.gif

Okay, where was I?

Oh yeah, I remember......on post #73 of this thread I wrote:

Has anybody besides me noticed how NOBODY has challeged a single annuity contract FACT I've written regarding the different types of annuites?

At the risk of losing my *SAFE designation please point out anything I've written on this thread that is factually incorrect regarding annuity contracts.

Best regards,

;)

[Silverbird]

You must be warning about non-TSP Annuities. There's no such thing as a variable TSP annuity. Our annuity program is very very good. Since this thread is on TSP Annuities, please offer a comparison with what we can get from TSP. Otherwise, I see no reason to go shopping for another Annuity, if I really want an annuity.

[GarySpicuzza]

Silverbird click www.tsp.gov/features/chapter14.html (http://www.tsp.gov/features/chapter14.html) for information regarding your TSP annuity option.

I can assure you that MetLife is nobody's competition when it comes to private sector annuities. And while $120 billion in assets sounds very impressive it is chump change when compared with the big boyz, (Aviva and Allianz)...who are the worldwide GIANTS in the industry.

Someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong but the TSP annuity option appears to me that you must annuitized your account.

99% of all annuities are never annuitized.

Nobody would recommend you do that unless there was a compelling reason. Once you "annuitize" an annuity that is an irrevocable option whereby you are systematically liquidating the cash for an income stream and once selected it can never be reversed.

That's not necessarily a bad thing if one is wanting to slow down Medicaid spend down for nursing home qualifications or to provide guaranteed lifetime income for a spouse or disabled child.

But as the linky states:

Once the funds for your annuity have been disbursed, you cannot cancel the annuity, change the annuity option, or change the joint annuitant.

Edit: You have to copy and paste link above to your broswer's address bar.
For some reason it doesn't take you to the exact page.

[SkyPilot]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/image.php?u=3592&dateline=1210985348 (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592)GarySpicuzza (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/member.php?u=3592) http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

BANNED

SPAM BANDIT...

[divgolfish]

Hi
My Father has an anuuity with AIG . Under the circumstances , do you have any advice for him. How safe is his money under an annuity? 200K annuity.

[roskopfm]

It depends what type of annunity AIG annunity, or annunity thru a mutual fund that was purchased thru AIG. If they would go under, he would be a general creditor if not part of an mutual fund. If you had money in a mutual fund, it would be protected, but annunities not part of a fund are not.