Dealing with ignorant coworkes...

[Asylum]

I brought up the TSP reallocation limits on IFT’s to most of my coworkers and a couple of them said something that I thought was both sad and ignorant.

They felt that since they didn’t want to take the time to get a rudimentary understanding of the market and since their TSP Funds were losing money this year, they think that I (we) shouldn’t be able to grow my (our) account(s) through occasional IFT’s because it wasn’t fair to them.

How do you deal with that attitude aside from the obvious?

:mad:

[wv-girl]

I brought up the TSP reallocation limits on IFT’s to most of my coworkers and a couple of them said something that I thought was both sad and ignorant.

They felt that since they didn’t want to take the time to get a rudimentary understanding of the market and since their TSP Funds were losing money this year, they think that I (we) shouldn’t be able to grow my (our) account(s) through occasional IFT’s because it wasn’t fair to them.

How do you deal with that attitude aside from the obvious?

:mad:
Your are right. Sad to think that uncle sam even hired these losers.:blink:

[Wolverine]

This is why I will not talk TSP or Money with any co-worker where I work.

It is a useless endeavor and a waste of my time.

I'll will not baby sit Adults. LOL

[Guest2]

Your are right. Sad to think that uncle sam even hired these losers.:blink:

The Selective Hiring Process was killed years ago. The Promotion Process
of Best Qualified has been replaced with O.C.(not the gas). Other Criteria.

Still, if you look hard enough, a few might get you through until retirement
before the others place you on the streets looking to feed your children.

[683KEU]

The best you can hope for is that they will not reproduce.....



They felt that since they didn’t want to take the time to get a rudimentary understanding of the market and since their TSP Funds were losing money this year, they think that I (we) shouldn’t be able to grow my (our) account(s) through occasional IFT’s because it wasn’t fair to them.

How do you deal with that attitude aside from the obvious?

[Show-me]

I managed to spark a few into thinking for themselves but the mass majority are like cattle wandering with no clue and no desire. Moo clock on, moo clock off. I'm done with the old ones and will give the new ones my spiel once they make their 90 days.

[Callme_CO]

This is why I will not talk TSP or Money with any co-worker where I work.

It is a useless endeavor and a waste of my time.

I'll will not baby sit Adults. LOL

To bad my FED job is to babysit adults. Or atleast children in adult bodies.

[The HalfBreed]

I brought up the TSP reallocation limits on IFT’s to most of my coworkers and a couple of them said something that I thought was both sad and ignorant.

They felt that since they didn’t want to take the time to get a rudimentary understanding of the market and since their TSP Funds were losing money this year, they think that I (we) shouldn’t be able to grow my (our) account(s) through occasional IFT’s because it wasn’t fair to them.

How do you deal with that attitude aside from the obvious?

:mad:


Some people aren't as astute at investment as others. I have folks that work with me, and since 1990 when they came in, I've tried to get them to max out their contributions to at least, get the max gov't contributions. They gave me excuses for over 5-10 years, and now, they're lamenting about how they should have invested. Well, like I told them, you can TRY to make up the money, but you can NEVER make up the time, and on average, they're $100,000 to $200,000 behind others who took my advice.

Nuff said.


HOWEVER, how they deal with their own finances, and their opinions on how I (and YOU) deal with ours are completely different matters.
To call their plight "Sad and Ignorant" is a testament to your lack of understanding. It's THEIR business, and their opinion. Whether you like it or not. I'm sure they may have similar opinions about you as well. Some folks purchase $70,000.00 Vehicles, and others are content with $20,000.00 vehicles. To each their own. Have some respect for others opinions, even tho it may not agree with yours, and try not to resort to personal attacks if you can.

[Guest2]

If my co-workers opinions are based on half truths and lies which the
Thrift Board has been dumping on them, I feel compelled to respect
their opinions once the "Truth Be Known". Asylum is not the only TSP
participant who is frustrated at the false preception which has been
systematically chipping away at the facts. It's "sad" how many of our
closest co-workers would rather believe in a lie, instead of believing
the truth. All the while, Asylum has the knowledge, care and respect
to at least try to bring some close friends out of their ignorance. For
that, I believe that Asylum never resorted to personal attacks. It's
the age old quest of helping the un-helpable and feeling helpless to
do anything about it. The more the facts are known, the better our
chances that the Gov't won't strip away our rights. Even if they lack
the ability to comprehend finance and investment, no one, and I mean
no one, likes to be deceaved or lied to. Thats whats happening. Asylum,
I feel your pain, keep the chin up and keep speaking the truth ! If you
want, I'll lend you my Prozac & Schnops.

[Braveheart]

Bottom Line - You will find there are always going to be people who choose or have a different point of view and all you can do is inform them of the facts. It is their own choice some do this for attention because they are so unhappy with their own lives they probably support you but for them like Mr. Long of the FRTIB this is their 5 minutes of fame.

Many people run and hide and refuse to speak up for anyone including themselves. In the Military the Solder who you may not even know would save your life and risk his or her own. It's a band of brothers who will fight to the death to protect one another. Honor is not just a word or slogan. Freedom is something you have to fight for or someone will try to take it from you. This is America and every day we lose more Rights and more Freedom because there are the weak minded individuals who will try to tear us apart or divide us. That is why we need the strong to UNITE us. Semper Fi - Braveheart

[troxel]

If my co-workers opinions are based on half truths and lies which the Thrift Board has been dumping on them, I feel compelled to respect
their opinions once the "Truth Be Known".

This is the point and also how bad the TSP Board would look if they had to defend their actions in court. Their numbers do not demonstrate harm as they would like to others to believe and they a have mislead people by making it appear that we are stealing their retirement funds.

I get pissed off by reading the language the board has used in an attempt to make those who take an active roll in managing their retirement fund as unethical greedy parasites, when all we have done is take an interest in our retirement money and used the facilities as provided, they did not cheat anyone or misuse resources. We are being responsible with money.

I have used this familiar analogy to explain the situation to people. Consider taxpayer-A and Taxpayer-B. Taxpayer-A spends hours reading all the IRS publications and become very knowledgeable on the tax code. Taxpayer-A is organized and keeps logs, records and receipts and fills out long but detailed tax forms. Taxpayer-B is lazy and only files her taxes using the EZ form at the last minute. Taxpayer-A is fully within the confines of the law and pays considerably less than Taxpayer-B. Is Taxpayer-A an unethical parasite while Taxpayer-B a saint and a better citizen? Clearly No.

There are a range of behaviors and energy within any group of people. The board should realize this and provide methods that fairly charge transaction costs for all participants instead of trying to coerce monolithic behavior in a dictatorial fashion and engage in propaganda to gratify their overblown authority complexes.

I read somewhere that the board does not want to impose transaction fees because they cannot come up with a fair price per transaction. What is so damn hard! They already have the data to estimate this:

fee = transaction-costs-per-year/number-of-transactions.

Conservatively estimate on a yearly basis and adjust each next year. Further fee or cost-per-transaction number could even serve as a performance metric for these incompetent ninnies.

[James48843]

...
I read somewhere that the board does not want to impose transaction fees because they cannot come up with a fair price per transaction. What is so damn hard! They already have the data to estimate this:

fee = transaction-costs-per-year/number-of-transactions.

Conservatively estimate on a yearly basis and adjust each next year. Further fee or cost-per-transaction number could even serve as a performance metric for these incompetent ninnies.

The calculation works out to about $4 per transaction for actual expenses. TSP also says there is an "unknown" amount of "lost" money because of interest NOT earned, while the three-day period following a transaction is taking place, waiting for the funds to clear. If it was equal to the amount of the ACTUAL costs, you're at $8. If you charged $10 per IFT, you'd more than cover all the costs.

There are on average about 190,000 to 200,000 IFT per month, according to the data last year. That dropped to 133,000 in February this year, as people throttled back IFT's. Even if it were 150,000 per month, you'd earn a million and a half per month in fees. That's $18 million per year. Every cost report says the costs are running around $12 million per year.

When you think about the TSP loan program, they initiated a $50 loan fee, not because they had data that showed it costs $50 to do it--- they charge $50 because they just made up that figure, and figured it would deter some people from taking out loans.

Double standards.

[Gumby]

This is the point and also how bad the TSP Board would look if they had to defend their actions in court. Their numbers do not demonstrate harm as they would like to others to believe and they a have mislead people by making it appear that we are stealing their retirement funds.

I get pissed off by reading the language the board has used in an attempt to make those who take an active roll in managing their retirement fund as unethical greedy parasites, when all we have done is take an interest in our retirement money and used the facilities as provided, they did not cheat anyone or misuse resources. We are being responsible with money.

I have used this familiar analogy to explain the situation to people. Consider taxpayer-A and Taxpayer-B. Taxpayer-A spends hours reading all the IRS publications and become very knowledgeable on the tax code. Taxpayer-A is organized and keeps logs, records and receipts and fills out long but detailed tax forms. Taxpayer-B is lazy and only files her taxes using the EZ form at the last minute. Taxpayer-A is fully within the confines of the law and pays considerably less than Taxpayer-B. Is Taxpayer-A an unethical parasite while Taxpayer-B a saint and a better citizen? Clearly No.

There are a range of behaviors and energy within any group of people. The board should realize this and provide methods that fairly charge transaction costs for all participants instead of trying to coerce monolithic behavior in a dictatorial fashion and engage in propaganda to gratify their overblown authority complexes.

I read somewhere that the board does not want to impose transaction fees because they cannot come up with a fair price per transaction. What is so damn hard! They already have the data to estimate this:

fee = transaction-costs-per-year/number-of-transactions.

Conservatively estimate on a yearly basis and adjust each next year. Further fee or cost-per-transaction number could even serve as a performance metric for these incompetent ninnies.


Great analogy! :)

[Braveheart]

The calculation works out to about $4 per transaction for actual expenses. TSP also says there is an "unknown" amount of "lost" money because of interest NOT earned, while the three-day period following a transaction is taking place, waiting for the funds to clear. If it was equal to the amount of the ACTUAL costs, you're at $8. If you charged $10 per IFT, you'd more than cover all the costs.

There are on average about 190,000 to 200,000 IFT per month, according to the data last year. That dropped to 133,000 in February this year, as people throttled back IFT's. Even if it were 150,000 per month, you'd earn a million and a half per month in fees. That's $18 million per year. Every cost report says the costs are running around $12 million per year.

When you think about the TSP loan program, they initiated a $50 loan fee, not because they had data that showed it costs $50 to do it--- they charge $50 because they just made up that figure, and figured it would deter some people from taking out loans.

Double standards.

You just nailed it. Use the $50 fee for a loan. Well how about a flat fee for IFT's per year such as the 1 year IFT plan is $10 for UNLIMITED TRADES. It is an option that members can use right on the website. The TSP would make a mint we get our unlimited trades and they the TSP are locked in. If you don't choose the option you get the 2 IFT's per month. I like my idea this way they can't rip members off at $10 per trade B.S. LoL :D

[FUTURESTRADER]

You just nailed it. Use the $50 fee for a loan. Well how about a flat fee for IFT's per year such as the 1 year IFT plan is $10 for UNLIMITED TRADES. It is an option that members can use right on the website. The TSP would make a mint we get our unlimited trades and they the TSP are locked in. If you don't choose the option you get the 2 IFT's per month. I like my idea this way they can't rip members off at $10 per trade B.S. LoL :D

Absolutely! $100/year even. Or don't opt in. Too elegant a solution if the problem really was
the 3,000 frequent transfer accounts. TSP should be able to put the income of the IFT fee towards the operations fees, easily covering them and exceeding them. Some kind of windfall to all the plan participants. Tracey Ray - use your 'financial genius' to THAT end, that will get you a REAL ATTABOY and look even better on your resume.

[FUTURESTRADER]

Great idea! I never thought of that one...give us the OPTION to buy unlimited IFTs for the year for a flat price, or maybe 100 IFTs a year for a lower price. It's a WIN-WIN situation: we get mucho IFTs while the buy-and-holders pay nothing. I'll fax a comment to Thomas K. Emswiler. :D

And I think it would make TSP even more palatable towards replacing Social Security. Something else to think about Tracy...get ya right in there rubbin elbows with the next administration. Better grab it and run with it before your buddy Greggy Long runs over you to get it to Hilary's, Obama's, or McCain's people. Maybe I'll run with it. Social Security??..problem solved:)

[Asylum]

Great idea! I never thought of that one...give us the OPTION to buy unlimited IFTs for the year for a flat price, or maybe 100 IFTs a year for a lower price. It's a WIN-WIN situation: we get mucho IFTs while the buy-and-holders pay nothing. I'll fax a comment to Thomas K. Emswiler. :D


you know that you are going to make Mr Thomas K. Emswiler a hero and get a big fat bone-us for all these great suggestions... LOL!

:D

[The HalfBreed]

I wouldn't mind fees as small as those stated above.

When I had (sold em all, except for my daughters 20th Century GiftTrust) mutual funds the average expense ratio of even the cheaper ones (like Vanguard & Fidelity) were/are about 0.2%. On $100,000.00 that is about $200.00. Not bad, but looking at Fidelity, it states:


Fidelity reserves the right to change the funds available without transaction fees and reinstate the fees on any funds. Fidelity will charge a short term trading fee each time you sell or exchange shares of FundsNetwork No Transaction Fee (NTF) funds held less than 180 days (short-term trade). If these funds are held for more than 180 days they may be sold without a short term trading fee. Fidelity funds, money market funds, funds redeemed through the Personal Withdrawal Service, and shares purchased through dividend reinvestment may be sold without this fee. The fee will be based on the following fee schedule:

Online: $75 flat fee
Fidelity Automated Service Telephone (FAST): 25% off representative-assisted rates, Maximum: $187.50, Minimum: $75
Representative-Assisted: 0.75% of principal, Maximum: $250, Minimum: $100

In addition, once you place 15 short term trades in a 12-month period in your account, Fidelity will charge a transaction fee each time you purchase or exchange shares including automatic investments of FundsNetwork funds (typically available without paying a transaction fee or load) in that account for the following 12 months. Fidelity funds, money market funds, funds redeemed through the Personal Withdrawal Service, and shares purchased through dividend reinvestment are excluded from this fee.So, I'd say that $10 per trade is extremely gracious and would not mind those charges. However, I don't think I'd want the TSP to institute these market charges (and these are low by market comparisons).


And Troxel, if Taxpayer B pays more taxes, it's their right. No big deal there. Let them. That analogy is not even remotely similar to someone who wants to call Taxpayer B "Ignorant". It's THEIR money, right ?!?!?

[Asylum]

How did they come up with 2 moves per month..? Why not 4.. or 5?

Crazy!