IFT Limit Question

[pezfallout]

Well, the first day of February is looking to be stellar. Good luck to everyone. I sure am going to miss playing the IFT game.

I thought the IFT limit was going into effect in March. Am I remembering wrong?

[caymanbrac12]

Just out of curiousity for the so called offenders shouldn't they be sent certified mail return receipt requested to ensure the offender got it and it was not lost somehow by you can't believe my mail carrier. Everyone is always knocking on my door to give me my mail that was misdelivered.:rolleyes:

[RAE]

There are no limits. All they have done is warn us not to exceed 3 ITF's per month. If we make 3 IFT's, supposedly #4 and any others that month will be made by snail mail. Which raises the question if I make 3 IFT's, then make #4 the next day, what will they do? Reject it? Hold it for x number of days that they estimate it would have taken by snailmail?

IF the reg is implemented, it will not happen before April as it has not yet been published in the FTR. If it is implemented in April, they still have to contract out and develop the software change so "lockouts" probably couldn't happen before October. IF the reg is implemented and effected in April it's fraud, because that means they have already let a contract to develop the software prior to the reg going through the necessary rule-making procedure.

Please understand that there are no limits yet. You can, and should, continue to make as many transfers as you wish. Let them worry about how to stop us. The cost of doing so is going to draw attention.

I totally agree. All of this talk about limits being imposed now, or even in April, is misplaced. As Anidoc says, it ain't gonna happen folks, so continue on with your IFT's as you have always done. Lockouts won't happen for a long time yet, if ever. FRTIB would love to have everyone that got bad-boy letters stop making IFT's now, but there is absolutely no reason to do so! Their letter was nothing but a bluff.

[Talltimber]

Snail mail might work if you are on the east coast, for those of us OCONUS or the west coast being limited to snail mail would justify a trip to make a personal call on the managers of our fund. Mail in Iraq takes forever.

[Big Mac]

Anyone who has gotten letters actually tested this idea of no limits?

[FUTURESTRADER]

not testable yet...friday IFT would be first of february, today would be 2nd possible IFT of february...so a move into any fund but G tomorrow is suppose to trigger relegation to snailmail

[camper65]

Has anyone had trade restrictions imposed on them yet?

[camper65]

Would have thought so, just not always aware of the goings on.
(And, I just have this thought that this is an idle threat. You know, Like that 60s' thing,
"BANANAS WILL GET YOU STONED! SSSSSSH DON"T TELL ANYONE!!!")

[BlueMax]

Has anyone had trade restrictions imposed on them yet?
I had something very strange happen Tuesday.

In preparing for the worst, I attempted to find the required 'snail mail' forms TSP-50, the only place I could find them were at the TSP customer service in Birmingham.

While talking to the agent, he stated "you don't need the forms, because the capability is online." When I responded that I was just preparing for the 'threat' to materialize, he told me that I could only have 10 forms per request. Since I had to give my acct. number to even reach him, he said he could make an IFT in my behalf, but since I went over my two allowed moves already, I could only move to the G fund. I respectfully declined and immediately went to the web to check my capabilities out, only to find; after I entered my IFT and clicked the submit button, a message came up stating; “Your account has been locked and you must call TSP customer service to proceed”, giving the contact phone number.

That evening I tried again and I was able to proceed. This morning I received my confirmation of the IFT.

My thought is; they can manually lock your account, but as of today, they don't have the software set-up to make it permanent.

[BlueMax]

First of all, the telephone jockey was wrong. There are NO limits yet, just a threat that for transfers in excess of two per month we may have to use snail mail. That doesn't mean you can't do one per day if you desire, just that transfers 3-30 you might be mailing them in. As for your thought that they can lock us out, I don't think so. I have had a problem in the past when I entered the wrong password because I had capslock on and that locks the account automatically. In that case you have to call them to get them to reset the password. A very reliable source told me that they do NOT have the authority to lock your account at this time. All they can do is reset passwords and the other normal TSPLINE assist functions.

If your account was in fact locked to ALL transactions including a transfer to G for the entire day that violates the interim regulation as published and you should notify ETAC and your Congressmen. IMMEDIATELY. Also check the interim regulation AS PUBLISHED so you are aware of your rights. Do NOT believe what the telephone jockeys tell you.

THERE ARE NO LIMITS YET. YOU CAN MAKE AS MANY TRANSFERS AS YOU WANT, THE INTERIM REGULATION STATES FRTIB "MAY" FORCE US TO USE SNAIL MAIL FOR >2 TRANSFERS PER MONTH. BUT WE ARE NOT LIMITED TO TWO!!!
anidoc,

I hope you are correct on your assessment, but I did not use the wrong password, because I got to my account and entered the new allocation. I received the message only after hitting the submit button.

[qibovin]

It does NOT impose limits on number of transfers, just on HOW they are made.
This still doesn't make sense to me. Joe Blow who has never made an IFT in his life can now utilize this feature all he wants, but because I took advantage of this feature during an arbitrary 2-3 month period (before any warning letters were sent) I am profiled for "special treatment" by having a still generally enjoyed privilege arbitrarily withdrawn.

Obviously the intent of snail mail IFTs is to essentially eliminate or drastically reduce IFTs. By still superficially allowing "unlimited" IFTs they may appear to be technically legal, but it seems to me that this threat of arbitrarily targeting people is the part that is troublesome. They might stand a better argument by requiring ALL TSP account holders to snail mail their IFTs. But then that would show how much of our money they wasted on putting the system in place to allow this in the first place.

Another arguement--along the lines of the "separate, but equal" attempts of the south--is that snail mail IFTs, by their very nature, and certainly compared with what "untargeted" account holders are allowed to do online, are LIMITED. In other words, unlimited snail mail IFTs is a bigger oxymoron than, dare I say, military intelligence.:mad::notrust:

[jon]

The proposed mail in requirement of IFTs for those continuing to exceed 3 monthly trades surely can be successfully challenged. FTIRB (?) may have the power to limit IFTs per month for all members, but by what authority can they discriminate against one group of members forcing them to use USPS to make IFTs, while others can still use on-line transfers? This sounds more like a federal manager trying to discipline or punish a group of employees who are using their computers in ways management does not like. As an ex shop steward in SSA, I believe this entire matter should be raised with every union that represents current fed employees affected by these proposals. While local reps might not be able to file any actions directly on the behalf of their bargaining units, they could at least raise this issue to their national offices.

[Scout333]

Has anyone been forced to put their IFTs in by snail mail since the letters went out to the 3000 frequent flyers?:(

[Packer Fan]

I received the letter too and I guess that makes me part of the persecuted 3K IFT Team. This is my first post although I have sought assistance here for almost two years now.

There is some confusion on the rules but here they are and here is the link straight from the TSP folks. I have been holding off as I have already made two moves this month G to I and I to F. I would like to go back to the I next week, but according to the rules the only move I have until Thursday noon is F to G. After that I start with my new allocation of 2 for all of March. :( Unfortunately my interpretation of the threstening letter has and will hold me in czech based on what I know today.

http://tsp.gov/resources/top.gif (http://tsp.gov/faq/faq14.html#top) "What are the new restrictions on interfund transfers?
The Thrift Savings Plan will implement restrictions on the number of interfund transfers a participant can make per month in order to curb frequent trading and its associated costs to TSP participants. However, the TSP does want to provide the opportunity for participants to rebalance their accounts and to permit unrestricted access to the Government Securities Investment (G) Fund. Accordingly, the restrictions would be as follows:
Participants can make two (2) interfund transfers per calendar month. After that, they may only move money from the Fixed Income Index Investment (F) Fund, the Common Stock Index Investment (C) Fund, the Small Capitalization Stock Index Investment (S) Fund, the International Stock Index Investment (I) Fund, and the L Funds to the G Fund.
We will count the interfund transfer based on its process date, not the date the interfund transfer was requested.
If your first or second interfund transfer in a month moves money only to the G Fund, it still counts toward your two (2) interfund transfers per month limit."

http://tsp.gov/resources/top.gif (http://tsp.gov/faq/faq14.html#top) When will the restrictions be implemented?
The restrictions will be announced in the annual TSP participant statement mailing which is scheduled for February 2008. We anticipate they will take effect in April 2008.

You can find much more at the following website. Hopefully Tom can post this off of the main TSP Talk site for all to see.

http://tsp.gov/faq/faq14.html#sub2 This is pretty elaborate.

[LAT]

I am a part of this team as well and have slowed my trading down. I realize we are to self regulate our trades also, but what constitutes a trade in their eyes? Is a one time trade from 100%G fund to 50%I fund and 50%S fund considered one trade or two?:mad:

[qibovin]

I am a part of this team as well and have slowed my trading down. I realize we are to self regulate our trades also, but what constitutes a trade in their eyes? Is a one time trade from 100%G fund to 50%I fund and 50%S fund considered one trade or two?:mad:Or for that matter, why can't a move from 100% G to 50% G, 50% C be 1/2 a "move"? I'd be more comfortable with being allowed to transfer 200% of my own money per month (followed by unlimitted moves to the G) than just two "moves." I rarely move everything in one move, but a 5% adjustment counts the same as a 100% move. What about the actual amount? Isn't that what actually affects the cost? What if they limited us to moving only $1M a month (besides G)? Then the financially challenged, like myself, could continue with unlimited moves and the restrictions would only affect the big boys. Of course that would mean for some TSPers that if they went 100% G, it might take them several months to get 100% reinvested in equities or bonds.

Obviously none of these faceteous situations above are any "fairer" than the attrocities already planned, but creative individuals will always find ways to make money with the hand they are dealt--lemonade from lemon...blah, blah, blah...:rolleyes:

[Packer Fan]

Packer, you are confused about the rules. Please re-read them. That is what they want us to do, not what we HAVE TO do. Note what I have underlined above - THERE ARE NO LIMITS at the present time. Keep making as many electronic IFT's as you want. The US SC just decided a case AGAINST a 401k. These letters are all a bluff for now, until the proposed changes go through the rulemaking process, which means it has to be posted in the Federal Register (they say in March) and go through a public comment period. FRTIB has to address those comments in the FedRegister if/when the final rule is published. FRTIB can't enforce anything yet, all they can do is REQUEST that we self-limit to 2 transfers per month via IFT and do more than than by snail mail. The 2-transfers per month limit by any method will not take effect until April at the earliest, if ever.

Please read back through this entire thread and the other thread WHAT YOU CAN DO about IFT limits. DON'T GIVE UP, IT'S NOT OVER YET.
As I recall, the letter I received indicated that I was to limit my trades to two effective immediately. I read another post at this site and a member indicated that (s)he was locked out for one day showing they (TSP) have that capability. I have already lost thousands the past two days because I would be back in the I-fund if I had regular trading. If I make my third transfer this month to the I-fund and get locked out via online, I would then loose the ability to go to the G fund for safety should catastrophe occur in the market. It is currently my decision not to take that risk and I am a risk taker. The FAQ's I posted are for everyone. The letter combined with the rules in the FAQ's are just for the 3000 Team. I would love to see arguments to the contrary so that I can change my mind. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[Boxholder]

Packer Fan...I received a letter and I've made 9 IFT'f in Feb. and 8 in Jan.

[Packer Fan]

OK thanks anidoc and Boxholder! I'm back in business for tomorrow's noon deadline.

[Intrepid_Timer]

Sure would be a pain in the arse to make those snail mail transfers though.

[BlueMax]

Take another look at your letter. The letter you received is a "request" not a demand. They are requesting that you limit your transfers, and they "may" have you make them by mail if you don't. A bluff. If you read the most recent information, they plan to post the proposed rule limiting IFT's in the Federal Register in March, then there is a 30 day comment period. So there will be NO LIMITS until at least MAY, if ever.

Please re-read the proposed rule as posted in the Federal Register in December, then re-read the TSP FAQ. Also check out the other two threads on this issue in tsptalk.com and TSPSHAREHOLDER.ORG website. The proposed rule gave FRTIB the authority to notify shareholders of "excessive trades" and to request they make trades by email if they make MORE THAN 2 trades per month. THERE ARE NO LIMITS! And if there were, according to the FAQ's, transfers to G are UNLIMITED, so you would NOT be stuck in I Fund, you could still transfer to G at any time, from any fund. But, you could not transfer OUT. That's the "escape valve", according to them. And if it's truly an "escape valve" then G Fund e-IFT's would NOT be locked out. Presumably you would still be able to login but once you got to the IFT screen only the G Fund IFT would be available.

However, at the present time there are no limits. Let's say you are one of "the 3000" and have "used up" your 3 electronic IFT's and find yourself locked out of your account. You could still transfer as many times as you want to any funds you want, but it would have to be done by snail mail...IF, AND ONLY IF, you were locked out of e-IFT. This is the ONLY authority FRTIB has, for now. With the recent SC decision on fiduciary duty I don't think FRTIB is going to lock anyone out.

The "lockout" was obviously a mistake since the member was able to make the transfer later the same day. At this point none of "the 3000" or anyone else has been prevented from making ANY transfers.

Since this one "lockout" happened to my account, I have made four additional "electronic IFTs".