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tsptalk
08-24-2007, 10:37 PM
While everyone is in such a good mood because of the incredible success of the ebbchart system, let me lay this on you...

As I have mentioned in the past, there is a time that we will have to make changes to the way these services are delivered and accessed. We (ebb, trader fred, and myself) have always discussed a possible move in the Fall to make the services part of a fee based subscription. As with any payment service we realize many people won't participate once they have to pay, no matter how much or how little we charge. The bottom line is, these guys and myself, must be compensated for the time, effort, expertise, dedication, you name it, that goes into putting all of this together - but before you run off, hear me out.

There is a way around it. The only way to compensate these fine contributors and system creators is to either charge a fee or get advertisers to pay us. We have tried the latter and while we do make some money, I wouldn't say anyone will be quiting their day jobs anytime soon. I did the math and basically if TSP Talk's traffic can grow in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 times its current size, we may be able to keep things free and still compensate ebb and trader fred pretty well.

With millions and millions of government employees and military personnel out there, our traffic is just scratching the surface when it comes to traffic potential. I spend literally thousands each month in advertising TSP Talk putting virtually every dime I ever made back into the site one way or the other (advertising, email services, chart services, software, webhosting, servers, shirts, hats, mugs, etc.) to keep it growing, so I am stretched that way.

Here's where you come in...

If we could get everybody here (the regulars) to help spread the word, we may be able to accomplish the goal of getting 4 to 5 X traffic faster than we've grown to this point. If you tell your co-workers, forward your email alerts, tell people about the ebbchart, trader fred, the sentiment survey, the message board, mention it in meetings, retirement seminars, write to federal publications like Gov Exec, Causey, Stephen Barr, ask your agency put links on their websites to us, etc., etc., etc, it may only take a few months before we go from 10,000 visitors a day to 50,000 or more. And with those numbers the advertising revenue should kick up a notch where we could keep every free.

What do say? Any comments, feedback, suggestions, questions?

If there is a positive reception to this idea, I may write something similar to this in my commentary to get everyone on board. Otherwise, we will likely go to a subscription service some time this Fall.

Thanks!

Hendricusl
08-25-2007, 07:09 AM
I would not object to paying a reasonable fee if it included E-mail notifications of new alocations and commentary updates from Ebb.

kcjacket
08-25-2007, 07:41 AM
Another incredible week Ebb!!!!!!!
Can't thank you enough.
Keep up the good work, it is appreciated.
No one should object to a reasonable fee for this
kind of info but I'm going to do what I can to
spread the word about the site!

Kevin

Show-me
08-25-2007, 07:59 AM
It's easy. Type up a page and print it on your printer. Take a few to work and put them up on the employee bulletin boards, locker rooms, etc.


Money ain't everything, but it sure makes life more comfortable.


www.TSPTalk.com (http://www.TSPTalk.com)


Easy to understand TSP Talk.


Make you nest egg grow!!!


www.TSPTalk.com (http://www.TSPTalk.com)


Come grow with us!


More fun than a barrel full of monkeys!

Callme_CO
08-25-2007, 08:26 AM
I praise you guys at work. I've gotten a few to at least look here not sure if they've sign up or not. We don't get officially a lunch break but we can eat during our shift. One day while eating my lunch in my office (away from the inmates) i logged on and was looking around. My lieutenant did his rounds. (sign the books, chatted ect.) He saw TSPtalk.com on the monitor. I though he'd give me a lecture about inappopriate use of the internet or something ( i was still only with the bureau for about 3 or 4 months.) He asked if i minded him looking on it. I told him to go ahead. I think he was interested. Not sure though if he ended up signing up.

oldgold
08-25-2007, 08:48 AM
I will be more than willing to spread the word and/or pay a fee for these services. A big THANKYOU to all you share ideas and thoughts here. I have a idea you will be seeing a major pickup in traffic.

Thanks again,
Oldgoldhttp://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/icons/icon7.gif

fabijo
08-25-2007, 09:16 AM
It is things like the ebbtracker and trader fred that get my coworkers. I haven't been interested enough in trader fred to keep up with the results (It moves much slower than I would like to), but maybe I should. I've already got a couple people checking every day to see what the ebbtracker is doing. Maybe I could reel in a couple more by telling others about Trader Fred. Some people really don't want to keep up with something every day.

I figure if it is profitable for me, then I wouldn't mind paying a small fee. The only difficulty is that there are so few people (10,000 per day is very small comparatively). If we charge a fee now, it will be more difficult later when the site is getting more popular. I know that when I visit a site for the first time and it is spouting off the returns they provide, but ask me to pay for a subscription to find out, I have my doubts. Sure, we all are living witnesses to ebb and Trader Fred, but in a year or two, it will just sound like rumors if the only people seeing it are the paying ones. It is just a very tough balance to figure out. I guess one of the ways to overcome the initial doubt is to provide new members with a time (two months or so) of free access to all the services, just to whet their appetite.

All that being said, anybody putting as much effort and time into anything as much as you guys deserves to get paid for it. It really is a job to update and code as much as you are doing. I know ebb could profit big time by selling his tracker to people. I know it is now just a combination of spreadsheets and database, but there is the chance of porting it to a single program with options for adjusting and tweaking some parameters. If you need assistance with code, I'd be willing to help. :)

This site has so much to offer. Just the fact that there are these forums seems to provide a breeding ground for random ideas developing into useful data. These are some of the members I can think of providing useful data to all of us that should be advertised:

Maddog - stats on members' moves
Ebb - tracker
JayHawker - beautiful spreadsheet to track TSP prices throughout the day
350z - I Fund prices and expert in yen carry trade
12% - unique market analysis and predictions
Paladin - filters out the market data and spits it out into useful list of pros and cons
Divot - introduced us to the Bullish percents and gave us a link to his blog
Fundsurfer - I haven't noticed in a while, but used to regularly draw out the current channels
There are more, but I'm tired and drawing a blank.

You might be able to provide a blog to the big contributors, making it easier for guests to find some of these helpful people. Then people could see what treasures lie within these forums.

vectorman
08-25-2007, 10:30 AM
Thought I would move comments from ebbnflows talk to here. Tom you have started a great site and it continues to grow. It's pretty obvious that you would someday want to profit from your hard work, as you should. In my workplace ebbnflow has become water cooler conversation and many a computor has this site bookmarked. Your site has become more popular now from him than the other services you offer. So now that you have the goose that is laying the golden egg, the time is right to have everyone penny up. Nothing ever stays free for long. Great ideas and hard work should be rewarded. Ebbnflow, Fred, Divot, Shark, other members, and yourself have spent alot of time and sacrifice developing your ideas. If others are profiting from them, then you too should be compensated. I do feel that in your case, as Administrator; your daily comments are interesting and sometimes very helpful ( like calling the top and bottom last year) . Also, pointing out the other services available, ie ebbnflow, Shark, Devot and Trader Fred is great. But since your work conflicts with your moves. You could get back some valuable time by not having to worry about alerting other members of your moves, by sending out e-mail alerts. You could still post your moves like the other members, but as info only. The other services very rarely make last minute changes so they are more easy to follow.

tsptalk
08-25-2007, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the feedback! No doubt, contributions are coming from everyone and every direction here. That's why I hope you folks have taken advantage of the revenue sharing program and set up your own Google Adsense Account (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=3906). As the site grows your ads will be viewed much more, and while you won't get rich, you could make some extra cash just for posting. It's how I am compensated and there's a basic formula - The more people that visit the site, the higher my ad revenue is at the end of the month.

There is also something to be said for being part of an exclusive group. Some people want to pay a fee to be a part of a small group of people that have "privileged information".

Others simply can't be bothered. I heard a female co-worker of mine talking about how well her L fund was doing. Now, except for the occasional day when I wear my TSP Talk golf shirts, I rarely bring up my site at work outside of a few close friends (I had some problems at work with TSP in the past). I decided to tell this lady that we have some systems on our website that are doing extraodinarily well if she was interested in getting aggressive. Her response was that she didn't want to bother with it. Fair enough. Some people aren't too excited about watching their TSP. It would be like someone telling me there is big money in craft shows - I'm just not interested. But if it cost me no money and only 5 minutes a day (to view the buy and sell signals and make a transfer) and I don't have to leave my desk, count me in. :)

FogSailing
08-25-2007, 11:07 AM
Tom:

I have many friends in the Energy Department. Ill make certain the they receive an email touting the benefits of the TSPTalk site.

FS

Lobo
08-25-2007, 12:25 PM
Tom....I've spread the word to many, many co-workers for a good while now. You do us all a great service with your website! I have some friends that are as faithful to reading your daily comments and watching Ebb as anyone can be. I don't know if they have ever "signed up". I've never seen them make a post. But, I rarely ever post...and I'm here everyday that I can be.

However, I find that most of the people I talk with would rather not be switching every day or so. They just don't want to be bothered with it, and they find a buy and hold position "comforable". They may just check the site occasionally, or not at all.

That said, I think just about all of us that come here daily would be willing to pay something reasonable for some of the services offered. What I've learned from being here, and I know next to nothing about it all, is that noone really has a handle on the stock market. There's at least a million opinions out there. But, then, once in a while, you see someone like Ebb who seems to be getting a "system" that, at least for a time, is winning the battle. No real "financial" or "emotional" analyses, just good ole math and statistics bringing sucess. However, the brain power to manipulate those statistics is worth something!

Anyway, I'm grateful for all you, and the others, do at this website, and will certainly continue to let others know what they are missing!!

Lobo

weatherweenie
08-26-2007, 04:13 PM
Tom,

Do you have a figure in mind as a fee for service? What would the service provide? Would anything on TSPTalk remain free?

Thanks,

Greg/WW

tsptalk
08-26-2007, 04:33 PM
Tom,

Do you have a figure in mind as a fee for service? What would the service provide? Would anything on TSPTalk remain free?

Thanks,

Greg/WW
If we do switch to a subscription, all of TSP Talk would be free except for the ebbchart, trader fred, and of course Revshark's TSP Timing newsletter. I don't have an exact figure yet. We are trying to decide whether we should package the 2 systems together or separately. If I had to guess it would be like $15/mo each or $25 for both.

Again, the fees can be avoided if we can push the site to 4 to 5 X current traffic levels.

JTH
08-26-2007, 05:35 PM
Hi Tom

I'm just curious if you made it to where Lurkers had to register to view the forum, if that would build up your # of members and increase your justification for advertisers to use this site?

As far as subscription service goes, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a cheap-skate and hate to pay for anything on the Internet if I can avoid it. Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm just trying to help out with my opinion, based on what I've seen as a newbie.

For myself, 25 dollars feels too steep and would be hard for me to justify considering I'm trying to pay down my debt, and my internet & cable bills cost about that much.

Now if the price were 9.99 then I'd probably jump on that in a heart beat. That number just feels like the magical number in which I felt like I was getting a great deal.

I don't have any statistical evidence to back this up, but I'm wondering if the 9.99 price would get you far more customers then 25 dollars would. Maybe 9.99 would draw more revenue because the 25.00 would turn away too many people.

As far as advertising goes, I think it's great for paying for the site, but based on what I know it would be hard to get advertising to pay for everything including the amount of time that you and others have invested. These are just some thoughts, maybe a poll would help figure out the best price to attract the most revenue.

Thanks Tom :)

weatherweenie
08-26-2007, 07:31 PM
Well said!


Hi Tom

I'm just curious if you made it to where Lurkers had to register to view the forum, if that would build up your # of members and increase your justification for advertisers to use this site?

As far as subscription service goes, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a cheap-skate and hate to pay for anything on the Internet if I can avoid it. Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm just trying to help out with my opinion, based on what I've seen as a newbie.

For myself, 25 dollars feels too steep and would be hard for me to justify considering I'm trying to pay down my debt, and my internet & cable bills cost about that much.

Now if the price were 9.99 then I'd probably jump on that in a heart beat. That number just feels like the magical number in which I felt like I was getting a great deal.

I don't have any statistical evidence to back this up, but I'm wondering if the 9.99 price would get you far more customers then 25 dollars would. Maybe 9.99 would draw more revenue because the 25.00 would turn away too many people.

As far as advertising goes, I think it's great for paying for the site, but based on what I know it would be hard to get advertising to pay for everything including the amount of time that you and others have invested. These are just some thoughts, maybe a poll would help figure out the best price to attract the most revenue.

Thanks Tom :)

McDuck
08-26-2007, 07:33 PM
I would not have problem with $10 a month.

James48843
08-26-2007, 10:30 PM
I'll post on my Union's internal web BBS system. See if we can't shake a few over this way from there.

GGal
08-28-2007, 08:02 AM
TSP Key is $99 per year, I believe.

Personally, if it were my site, I wouldn't go above that. And I would make it inclusive for all who want to be tracked, not just those who want to view the two systems.

For one thing, the Ebb Tracker is too new to start charging $15 a month for it. I don't know about Freds. That's not to say that the Ebb Tracker is not great. It just has not been tested thoroughly.

The real value to this website is the contribution of ideas and efforts from many, and the tracking, etc.

GGAL

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 08:57 AM
Hi Tom

I'm just curious if you made it to where Lurkers had to register to view the forum, if that would build up your # of members and increase your justification for advertisers to use this site?
Hi JTH -
I think that would hurt it actually. It's not so much the number of members, but the number of visitors that helps the advertising revenue. Most regulars rarely click on ads. :D


As far as subscription service goes, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a cheap-skate and hate to pay for anything on the Internet if I can avoid it. Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm just trying to help out with my opinion, based on what I've seen as a newbie.
You are in the majority and I have 2 feelings on this: We want to "help" or at least be available to as many people as possible. That helps the ad revenue and its a win - win for those looking for assistance. But like I said earlier, there's something appealing to folks like Robo, or myself, who subscribed to fee based services like sentimentrader or realmoney.com, where we feel we are getting a little more info than the average guy who's not willing to fork over a few bucks to get it. Kind of an exclusive club. If something is free is does have a tendency to seem less valuable than if it is paid for, if that makes sense.


For myself, 25 dollars feels too steep and would be hard for me to justify considering I'm trying to pay down my debt, and my internet & cable bills cost about that much.

Now if the price were 9.99 then I'd probably jump on that in a heart beat. That number just feels like the magical number in which I felt like I was getting a great deal.
It depends what it is worth to you. If you are only considering the information, it may not appeal to you to pay $XX a month. But if you followed the ebbchart verbatim, and you had a $100,000 TSP account for instance, in 8 months you would have about $118,200, vs. $104,500 with a diversified account. Is that worth $15 a month? Sure. But you'd pay that during a down year as well of course - not that ebb would ever have a down year. :) Trader Fred's return would give you $109,250 so far this year. At $15 each, that would be $180 a year. At $25 for both that's $300 for the year.


I don't have any statistical evidence to back this up, but I'm wondering if the 9.99 price would get you far more customers then 25 dollars would. Maybe 9.99 would draw more revenue because the 25.00 would turn away too many people.
That's a good question. I know how many members RevShark's newsletter generated at $19.95/mo. If I could double that number at 9.99/mo I may choose the 19.95 because it is fewer people I would have to deal with. There is a lot of renewal, cancellation, chargebacks, etc. stuff you have to deal with so the smaller or more exclusive the group, the less accounts maintenance we have.


As far as advertising goes, I think it's great for paying for the site, but based on what I know it would be hard to get advertising to pay for everything including the amount of time that you and others have invested. These are just some thoughts, maybe a poll would help figure out the best price to attract the most revenue.
Yes, Trader Fred suggested a poll as well. Thanks for your feedback, it is much appreciated!

ebbnflow
08-28-2007, 09:10 AM
I buy three or four different newspapers a day. A $15 fee would be like picking up one newspaper a day and it's also good for your TSP. :)

huntva
08-28-2007, 09:51 AM
IMHO, it really comes down to how successful the Ebb Tracker and Trader Fred systems would be over time. If I can get a 15 or 20% return every year over the next ten years, I would make it a priority to pay whatever the TPS Talk fee may be. Since the Ebb Tracker has less than a year of performance, you may have to start small. For now, either $9.99 or $19.99 per month sound good to me.

If the Ebb Tracker pans out over the long term, you may have subscribers lined up to pay $29.99 or $49.99 per month. In fact, my college-age son made the interesting observation that the long-term success of the Ebb Tracker may tip him towards a government career, partly to get into the TSP. Imagine that. TSP Talk becomes a recruiting chip for the Feds and the military.:)

RS

Removed1
08-28-2007, 09:53 AM
I like GG's idea, $100 a year is acceptable,yearly instead of monthly,make it simple,we subcribe financial ,tech stock,mutual fund newsletters from well known names prices range from $79-199.I like Ebb with his personality,professionalism and his system,I wish I have followed his system since the beginning,but because it is so new like GG said..
Also I don't know where TSPGO gets money from,it is also a valuable source,may be you charge a little more if some one want to read all Ebb,Fred and TSPGO..
$25 a month,sound is a lot to me, specially have to pay monthly,I would rather pay once a year,less time consumed and with cheaper rate,like everything else.Thanks

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 10:22 AM
In fact, my college-age son made the interesting observation that the long-term success of the Ebb Tracker may tip him towards a government career, partly to get into the TSP. Imagine that. TSP Talk becomes a recruiting chip for the Feds and the military.:)
Welcome to the board, and thanks for your feedback! Tell your son he can trader S&P or EFA ETF's just like the TSP. Wow, there's some acronyms for ya. He doesn't have to work for the Gov. As matter of fact, he should save his tuition money and start trading for a living. (Don't let him see this. He might do it.). :D

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 10:33 AM
$25 a month,sound is a lot to me, specially have to pay monthly,I would rather pay once a year,less time consumed and with cheaper rate,like everything else.Thanks
I'm sure we'd make an annual or six month option. RevShark's newsletter has a six month option that saves you 10%. And we have about 4 monthly subscribers for every 3 6-month subscriptions.

budnipper1
08-28-2007, 10:49 AM
Like most topics, everybody has opinions. This is my suggestion:

Set up your site like the cable companies, phone companies, etc. Offer your services in tiers with prices based on the amount of service provided or desired.

1. Your site is already available for viewing only, by "guests" for nothing/FREE.

2. The first tier above "guests" could add "post comments" privileges for registered users.

3. Second tier could include your current "premium" services, part or all.

4. A third tier, if needed, could be offered to include any services not offered in tier #2.

My belief is that low-pricing the 1st/lowest fee-based tier should entice many people to participate that might not otherwise, and also provide new revenue to help lower the price of the higher level tiers.

Fees would be proportionate to the level of services desired. The excellent features such as the the Timing News Letter, spreadsheet tracking, ebbtracker, Shark, Fred, etc. could be offered in any tier level that you felt appropriate. (You=Tom since it's your yard we're playing in. As for the specific pricing of these services, that would also be your decision, not mine.)

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 11:30 AM
As for the specific pricing of these services, that would also be your decision, not mine.)
LOL, thanks for letting me decide. :D

The tier system sounds great and I'd love to do it that way, but it will require a lot of billing and bookkeeping programming. That's another reason why advertising is a much easier alternative - but again - I'd need to dramatically increase traffic to go that way.

McDuck
08-28-2007, 12:14 PM
TSP Key is $99 per year, I believe.

Personally, if it were my site, I wouldn't go above that. And I would make it inclusive for all who want to be tracked, not just those who want to view the two systems.

For one thing, the Ebb Tracker is too new to start charging $15 a month for it. I don't know about Freds. That's not to say that the Ebb Tracker is not great. It just has not been tested thoroughly.

The real value to this website is the contribution of ideas and efforts from many, and the tracking, etc.

GGAL

I agree with GG. $300 is a premium price.

Ebb Tracker is interesting, but no financial professional would advice someone to follow a system that doesn't have a real track record of less than 4 or 5 years.

For $300, I would expect same kind of money-back guarantees.

ebbnflow
08-28-2007, 12:55 PM
Greg, I think you got your math wrong. $15 for a service comes out to $180 a year, not $300. And that doesn't even include any discount. As for track record, I did have 32% last year with just the ebbtracker tracking the I-fund (no C and S-fund tracking yet). I also did backtesting for 2005 with great results. But this year, with the included cross-checking function of the C and S-fund included on the ebbchart, the new improved system has beaten the ebbtracker's I-fund in 7 out of 8 months.

And by using the recommended ebbchart stock and safe haven patterns, we increase the percentage of catching an up or down day by 10% on average. That's 10% each. Even a professional gambler would have a problem sustaining a 7% to 8% increase in winning percentage. With the ebbchart, you get a casino-like house advantage built in. In any kind of gambling endeavor, a 5% to 10% advantage is huge and I can't emphasize that enough.

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 01:05 PM
I agree with GG. $300 is a premium price.

Ebb Tracker is interesting, but no financial professional would advice someone to follow a system that doesn't have a real track record of less than 4 or 5 years.

For $300, I would expect same kind of money-back guarantees.
Just to clear things up, based on what we've said, and nothing is set in stone yet, $300 would be for both systems - and that's if you pay by the month. A yearly subscription would be discounted.

It would be approximately $180 each for system, and possibly less for Trader Fred since his is not as active. Again, no decisions have been made.

That $180 is less than what RevShark currently charges and he has a pretty good following still, so I know people will pay if we go that way.

Again, if we can't build up enough traffic to offset the compensation we're looking for, then it will just be a matter of those who are willing to pay will have access, and those who don't want to pay obviously won't have access. I realize not everyone will want to pay. You can pay your $1 to $2 for your cup of coffee every morning, or you can spend $0.50 and get your ebbchart fix. :)

As far as finding a financial professional that would advise anyone to follow a system (whether it is new or old) - it won't happen. They will tell you to buy and hold and then charge you a fee on top of that. No one else, in their eyes, is smart enough to make market decisions. As RevShark says, they want to have control over your money - they don't want you touching it because it takes it out of their hands. nd as weatherweenie says, "Friends don't let friends buy and hold." :)

SkyPilot
08-28-2007, 01:15 PM
While the EbbChart is doing well (really well), I think I would want to have it backtested over several years, preferably a decade or so.

Most other advice services have done this and display those results. This would help to understand how the system works in a variety of market situations over a reasonable period of time. While backtesting is no guarantee, it is informative.

ebbnflow
08-28-2007, 01:28 PM
SkyPilot, rest assured that if we get a big correction, the ebbchart would get hit less than a buy and holder. It's in equities only 56% of the time. And as we've seen during this correction, a lot of folks lost more than 10% of their gains while the ebbchart lost a whole lot less.

Spaf
08-28-2007, 01:48 PM
Tom,
Don't know if others would agree??
IMHO, U need a TSPTalk Store.
i.e., Ur caps are cool! My granddaughters all want one! I keep mine in a safe!
Advertising is the key.....Like best performing trading cap!......:nuts:

Explain this one!
Hickory Farms sends me a catalog ever so often. And, I buy something every dang time!...... Must be the pictures!.......:D

wv-girl
08-28-2007, 02:06 PM
Tom,
Don't know if others would agree??
IMHO, U need a TSPTalk Store.
i.e., Ur caps are cool! My granddaughters all want one! I keep mine in a safe!
Advertising is the key.....Like best performing trading cap!......:nuts:

Explain this one!
Hickory Farms sends me a catalog ever so often. And, I buy something every dang time!...... Must be the pictures!.......:D


That is a GREAT IDEA.. Count me in.

McDuck
08-28-2007, 02:07 PM
Ebb, I think you are doing great things! I would pay $15/mo to get your moves but I would prefer $9.99. Your posts and my being able to read/post on the MB is the only things I would be interested in paying for.

My other comment was one of fairness because Tom and other people here have pooh-poohed people on this MB when they posted had a new system for high returns and said they had back tested as proof.

Once again, I think you are doing great things - as witnessed by you being out of stocks today.


Greg, I think you got your math wrong. $15 for a service comes out to $180 a year, not $300. And that doesn't even include any discount. As for track record, I did have 32% last year with just the ebbtracker tracking the I-fund (no C and S-fund tracking yet). I also did backtesting for 2005 with great results. But this year, with the included cross-checking function of the C and S-fund included on the ebbchart, the new improved system has beaten the ebbtracker's I-fund in 7 out of 8 months.

And by using the recommended ebbchart stock and safe haven patterns, we increase the percentage of catching an up or down day by 10% on average. That's 10% each. Even a professional gambler would have a problem sustaining a 7% to 8% increase in winning percentage. With the ebbchart, you get a casino-like house advantage built in. In any kind of gambling endeavor, a 5% to 10% advantage is huge and I can't emphasize that enough.

JTH
08-28-2007, 02:10 PM
Tom,
Don't know if others would agree??
IMHO, U need a TSPTalk Store.
i.e., Ur caps are cool! My granddaughters all want one! I keep mine in a safe!
Advertising is the key.....Like best performing trading cap!......:nuts:

Explain this one!
Hickory Farms sends me a catalog ever so often. And, I buy something every dang time!...... Must be the pictures!.......:D

I agree, Tom should open up a store so I can use my TSP coffee mug as a conversation starter!

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 02:32 PM
I agree, Tom should open up a store so I can use my TSP coffee mug as a conversation starter!
TSP-r-us? :)

I have considered it but what has discouraged me is the price of shipping these days. One of those travel mugs now costs over $7 just to ship it and that doesn't include the boxes I have to buy. The total cost would be too high to be able give a decent deal. Hopefully the T-shirts will be cheap to ship using 1st class mail in large envelopes. Pens anyone? :D

Spaf
08-28-2007, 03:39 PM
Tom,

use Ground!

I buy a lot off the internet! The (time) driving, gasoline, etc.....Why...I can't go to Wal-Mart to buy a TSP mug!

Please send 3 caps with invoice, I'll send you a check! [Caps are good-luck fishing equipment!!!!!]....:D

You only live once!

Don't ask me how much I spent to get mags for my golf cart!.....:embarrest:

350zCommTech
08-28-2007, 04:41 PM
Tom,

What is being proposed here? Access fees for TraderFred, Ebbchart, and/or the message board?

I will not pay for access to the message board. As for Ebbchart, I agree that he should be compensated for his work. Members here or guests that follow his chart should pay a fee, but what about members who contribute regularly to the board, such as myself? Can we have free access to the Ebbchart?

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 04:49 PM
What is being proposed here? Access fees for TraderFred, Ebbchart, and/or the message board?
Ebbchart and Trader Fred. The message board and the rest of the site will remain free.

oreo
08-28-2007, 04:52 PM
You know, reading this topic, the one thought that keeps going through my mind is that I keep thinking this would make a really good task for the show, The Apprentice. I just keep thinking of Donald Trump sending the two teams out with the goal of selling the most TSPtalk subscriptions, the teams strategizing the best price to make the most money and Donald Trump firing the losing team in the boardroom. I think that would make a really interesting episode.

Just kidding ;)

tsptalk
08-28-2007, 04:56 PM
You're fired! :D

buda
08-29-2007, 10:01 AM
$100 - $150 Prepaid for the etire year to include all services and also offer a monthly ala carte at a higher rate.

Divot
08-29-2007, 02:03 PM
Just thought I'd add my two cents to this public discussion.

There are a lot of TSP "advisory" services out there, most of them charge a fee.

Some just tell you what to do and when to do it.
Some give you lots of food for thought, without clear direction.
Some give you a menu of portfolios to chose from that will contradict each other.None of them come close to the corporate knowledge and educational value of TSP Talk.

The real attraction to TSP Talk is the opportunity to learn from a variety of perspectives. I think Tom's vector of providing a TSP oriented "thestreet.com" is exactly what government employees really need. I've been visiting TSP Talk for years, and I know I've benefited from reading what others have to say. I think that there is a real demand for financial/investing literacy material - and TSP Talk is best poised to deliver that.

I definitely believe that there should be value (ie: $) associated with getting timely advice from a source that's proven to beat the market. When Ebb and Fred go to being subscription services, that's great and I know they will have many interested subscribers. I just know that when I stumble across a website for a paid TSP advisory service with nothing for me to read but a promise and subscription price - it doesn't grab my attention. I want to learn, not just pay someone else to tell me what to do. I hope that most of the content on TSP Talk remains free (ie: advertisement funded).

Bottom line: I like the current model for TSP Talk. Ebb and Fred are definitely worthy of going to a subscription format, but I think that their older content should be available for free (so people can see what they offer.) The same goes for RevShark - I used to read him before he went subscription, so I know his style and content - but folks just showing up today can only read his credentials and then make a decision whether to subscribe.

- Divot
Market Debrief (http://www.tsptalk.com/debrief/)

BeaverState
08-29-2007, 07:31 PM
Seems to me you might want to get some legal advice on this idea of charging for financial adivce. I don't know, but you may need a license to do that. The laws may be different in different states. You might need good insurance for those naughty people who like to sue if your advice loses them money.

budnipper1
08-29-2007, 09:24 PM
Seems to me you might want to get some legal advice on this idea of charging for financial adivce. I don't know, but you may need a license to do that. The laws may be different in different states. You might need good insurance for those naughty people who like to sue if your advice loses them money.

Welcome BeaverState, to the forum.
There are numerous places within this site that state that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. All things stated here are only opinions of the numerous participants. Granted, there is a lot of great information within these pages and much can be learned. What each individual decides to do with that info is exactly that: HIS PERSONAL DECISION. Charging for certain premium services are not new here. Some are already in place and have been for a while. I am currently a paying member and have access to a couple of features that non-subscribers do not. I also know that I can use that information when making my investment decisions, or not. Please continue to read the other posts in this forum and get the whole story.

(From TSP Talk home page:)
TSP Talk is in no way affiliated with the U.S. government, or military TSP Thrift Savings Plan, tsp.gov, or any other government agency.TSP Talk does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this report, nor does TSPtalk.com assume any liability for any loss that may result from reliance by any person upon any such information or opinions. Such information and opinions are subject to change without notice and are for general information only. The information contained in this report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written consent from TSPtalk.com.

Copyright © 2003 - 2007 TSP (http://www.tsptalk.com/) Talk, LLC
All Rights Reserved

McDuck
08-29-2007, 10:09 PM
I think things when you start charging for a service. When information is free, you are expected to take for what you paid for it. I would be surprized if there weren't regulatory / legal obligations when you charge money for financial advice.

WHAT I THINK SHOULD BE TRYED FOR SEPTEMBER IS: EBB SETS UP A PAYPAL ACCOUNT WHERE EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO VOLUNTEERLY CONTRIBUTE $9.99 TO HIM FOR HIS SERVICE. After a month or two, have him determine if that's enough income for him. If not, then try something else.




Welcome BeaverState, to the forum.

There are numerous places within this site that state that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. All things stated here are only opinions of the numerous participants. Granted, there is a lot of great information within these pages and much can be learned. What each individual decides to do with that info is exactly that: HIS PERSONAL DECISION. Charging for certain premium services are not new here. Some are already in place and have been for a while. I am currently a paying member and have access to a couple of features that non-subscribers do not. I also know that I can use that information when making my investment decisions, or not. Please continue to read the other posts in this forum and get the whole story.

(From TSP Talk home page:)
TSP Talk is in no way affiliated with the U.S. government, or military TSP Thrift Savings Plan, tsp.gov, or any other government agency.TSP Talk does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this report, nor does TSPtalk.com assume any liability for any loss that may result from reliance by any person upon any such information or opinions. Such information and opinions are subject to change without notice and are for general information only. The information contained in this report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written consent from TSPtalk.com.

Copyright © 2003 - 2007 TSP (http://www.tsptalk.com/) Talk, LLC
All Rights Reserved

BeaverState
08-29-2007, 10:49 PM
Welcome BeaverState, to the forum.
There are numerous places within this site that state that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. All things stated here are only opinions of the numerous participants....

BeaverState replies...

Thank you for the welcome. What I was referring to was not tsptalk.com in general or the posts made on the site. I know that the posts and comments are only people's opinions. What I was saying is that you may need a license to charge people money for financial advice. I noticed the RevShark guy advertises he is a Registered Financial Advisor, or something similar to that, along with many other credentials. I would imagine he has some serious liability insurance.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of each newsletter would be enough. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Some husband and wife teams at my work claim to have close to a half million dollars in there TSP accounts. Pretty cool huh? This would be serious business advising them on which funds to invest in. Should their accounts go down 10 percent, they've lost $50,000. A serious chunk of change for a civil servant.

By the way, I have been following the ebbchart and would consider paying for the service. I think he would make a lot more money if he waits until he has a daily following of 10,000 or more people before he starts charging for the service. I would think once he starts charging it will be hard to attract newcomers.

budnipper1
08-30-2007, 01:12 AM
BeaverState replies...

Thank you for the welcome. What I was referring to was not tsptalk.com in general or the posts made on the site. I know that the posts and comments are only people's opinions. What I was saying is that you may need a license to charge people money for financial advice. I noticed the RevShark guy advertises he is a Registered Financial Advisor, or something similar to that, along with many other credentials. I would imagine he has some serious liability insurance.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of each newsletter would be enough. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Some husband and wife teams at my work claim to have close to a half million dollars in there TSP accounts. Pretty cool huh? This would be serious business advising them on which funds to invest in. Should their accounts go down 10 percent, they've lost $50,000. A serious chunk of change for a civil servant.

By the way, I have been following the ebbchart and would consider paying for the service. I think he would make a lot more money if he waits until he has a daily following of 10,000 or more people before he starts charging for the service. I would think once he starts charging it will be hard to attract newcomers.

Based on what I've read, I believe that it's not so much the issue of Ebb expecting to get rich; but rather, that he deserves some compensation for all the time and work he's invested in developing his system.(which he has graciously shared it with us for nothing, so far)

Whatever the final outcome about fees charged for Ebb's chart or any of the other offerings on TSP Talk, I really don't see what all the hubbub is about. Any fees I've seen discussed would be chump-change compared to the fees Rev Shark receives from his official website subscribers.(approx. $5,000/year) And even at that price, he still has a disclaimer stating that all information provided is for educational purposes only and should never be construed as a recommendation to buy or sell. (http://www.sharkinvesting.com/services.aspx (http://www.sharkinvesting.com/services.aspx) ) I find it hard to see how anybody could win a lawsuit based on the argument that "because he gave me his opinion on what the market might do tomorrow, I gambled that he would be right and lost money".

Basically, I just enjoy what TSPTalk is all about. The message board discussions and opinions on investing strategies, all the information that's brought in everyday from almost every financial website imaginable, as well as the Ebbchart and other "systems" which try to track the market trends. I'm getting very valuable information and being entertained at the same time. I won't mind paying a reasonable price for that.

(Not to worry, Tom...no charge for the commercial):D

About James 'RevShark' De Porre
James "Rev Shark" De Porre is president of Shark Asset Management, a Registered Investment Advisory firm specializing in actively managed, separate accounts, located in Anna Maria, Florida. He is a member of the Michigan Bar Association and a former tax attorney and CPA. De Porre holds business and law degrees from the University of Michigan. He was formerly the host of America Online's The Shark Attack and presently operates Shark Investing.com (http://www.sharkinvesting.com/). De Porre is also the author the Trading Diary of The Street.com’s Real Money (http://www.thestreet.com/). He is a pioneer in the online trading world and has been an active participant in chat rooms and message boards since their advent. You can contact him at RevShark@SharkInvesting.com
Nothing contained in this article should be interpreted as or deemed to be a recommendation to any investor or category of investors to purchase, sell or hold any security.
http://www.tsptalk.com/revshark_bio.html (http://www.tsptalk.com/revshark_bio.html)

TRUEHONEST
08-30-2007, 04:46 AM
I have a suggestion. :D

Guarantee them that the service fee would not increase that much the next three years even when ebbchart still continues to gain Big Percentages. And those people who procrastinate subscribing will be charged 7x fold for not getting the package deal. Buy it while it is still hot. :rolleyes::suspicious:

DrunkenMonkey
08-30-2007, 12:36 PM
I think the idea of voluntary paypal donations makes more sense. It would also simplify some of the legal concerns. Just my 2 cents worth.

tsptalk
08-30-2007, 01:04 PM
Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

tsptalk
08-30-2007, 01:05 PM
I have a suggestion. :D

Guarantee them that the service fee would not increase that much the next three years even when ebbchart still continues to gain Big Percentages. And those people who procrastinate subscribing will be charged 7x fold for not getting the package deal. Buy it while it is still hot. :rolleyes::suspicious:
Not a bad idea. Thanks.

BeaverState
08-30-2007, 01:28 PM
Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.
I believe amazon.com has a program where you can add an icon to your webpage to collect donations. They do all the processing for you and send you a check. I don't know if it's a good or bad deal but you could read about it here http://zme.amazon.com/exec/varzea/subst/fx/home.html/058-3568697-9345220

tsptalk
08-30-2007, 02:05 PM
Thanks. What I mean is, people don't donate. Very, very few anyway. We've done the PayPal donation thing. There's one on the tracker page right now, as well as on the TSPLookup page.

jayhawker
08-30-2007, 03:08 PM
Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

Since you asked...

No, asking for donations doesn't pay the bills.

I put TSPLookup out in the marketplace for free so I'm not complaining. But I am disappointed in the amount of donations I've received. I know people are using it; it's handy and has some nice features for the user. I'm not saying it's a work of genius but I put my time and effort into it (still do), it serves a useful purpose and it should be worth the $10 bucks I'm asking for it in the form of a donation. It has been downloaded thousands(!) of times and I've received 13 donations. Is that a fair return? It may be so.

Users here have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars at risk in the market every day, but $10 or $25 or whatever once per month is a hardship(?) It may be so.

Ed.

jkat1966
08-30-2007, 06:05 PM
While everyone is in such a good mood because of the incredible success of the ebbchart system, let me lay this on you...

As I have mentioned in the past, there is a time that we will have to make changes to the way these services are delivered and accessed. We (ebb, trader fred, and myself) have always discussed a possible move in the Fall to make the services part of a fee based subscription. As with any payment service we realize many people won't participate once they have to pay, no matter how much or how little we charge. The bottom line is, these guys and myself, must be compensated for the time, effort, expertise, dedication, you name it, that goes into putting all of this together - but before you run off, hear me out.

There is a way around it. The only way to compensate these fine contributors and system creators is to either charge a fee or get advertisers to pay us. We have tried the latter and while we do make some money, I wouldn't say anyone will be quiting their day jobs anytime soon. I did the math and basically if TSP Talk's traffic can grow in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 times its current size, we may be able to keep things free and still compensate ebb and trader fred pretty well.

With millions and millions of government employees and military personnel out there, our traffic is just scratching the surface when it comes to traffic potential. I spend literally thousands each month in advertising TSP Talk putting virtually every dime I ever made back into the site one way or the other (advertising, email services, chart services, software, webhosting, servers, shirts, hats, mugs, etc.) to keep it growing, so I am stretched that way.

Here's where you come in...

If we could get everybody here (the regulars) to help spread the word, we may be able to accomplish the goal of getting 4 to 5 X traffic faster than we've grown to this point. If you tell your co-workers, forward your email alerts, tell people about the ebbchart, trader fred, the sentiment survey, the message board, mention it in meetings, retirement seminars, write to federal publications like Gov Exec, Causey, Stephen Barr, ask your agency put links on their websites to us, etc., etc., etc, it may only take a few months before we go from 10,000 visitors a day to 50,000 or more. And with those numbers the advertising revenue should kick up a notch where we could keep every free.

What do say? Any comments, feedback, suggestions, questions?

If there is a positive reception to this idea, I may write something similar to this in my commentary to get everyone on board. Otherwise, we will likely go to a subscription service some time this Fall.

Thanks!

How much have you discussed charging?

ebbnflow
08-30-2007, 06:44 PM
How much have you discussed charging?
We don't know yet for sure. Tom says maybe $15/month for a service or $25 for both systems (Trader Fred, EbbChart). Or if traffic picks up from 10,000 to 50,000 we coud remain a free site. Just throwing numbers around for now hoping for a feedback. Nothing is set in stone.

And thanks guys and gals for the kind words and show of support! :)

Reactive1
08-30-2007, 07:20 PM
Oh man, I hate to hear that you plan to charge. I'm very new to this site but have been a part of similiar ones, and my initial reaction is that it wouldn't work to charge. I know I wouldn't pay. Of course I could be completely wrong, but the effect I see is that you would suddenly have half or less members actively involved and everyone else looking in from the outside...not a happy family. I would strongly endorse the second idea of avoiding this and getting co-workers involved in the website. People are just not inclined to pay for information over the internet.

SkyPilot
08-30-2007, 08:28 PM
Oh man, I hate to hear that you plan to charge. I'm very new to this site but have been a part of similiar ones, and my initial reaction is that it wouldn't work to charge. I know I wouldn't pay. Of course I could be completely wrong, but the effect I see is that you would suddenly have half or less members actively involved and everyone else looking in from the outside...not a happy family. I would strongly endorse the second idea of avoiding this and getting co-workers involved in the website. People are just not inclined to pay for information over the internet.

I'm with you and would like to see this site continue as is. So, get the word out. I would guess about a third of my co-workers visit on a weekly if not daily basis now.

Grizzly
08-30-2007, 08:33 PM
Ebb is up over 20% so far this year! I'm csrs so I don't have much in the thrift, 30,000 or so. Even at that I'd be up over 6,000 ytd. I'd gladly pay 15 a month. I'm also using the Ebb Chart with some etf's and doing well.
Another point to consider is if too many people are using market timing, the tsp may follow in the footsteps of most mutual funds and limit the frequency of moves or put in some other restrictions.
A few years back I was switching between international funds and money market. Eventually the fund companies tired of the market timers and now we have all these redemption fees and restrictions. Too many people using Ebb, and they will if it is free, may ruin it. 15 a month is fine by me.
Just my opinion.
Mike

JTH
08-30-2007, 09:21 PM
Mr Ebbinflow


Despite what cheap-skates like me think, everyone deserves to make a profit from their work. I've noticed on another TSP Website, some folks were criticizing Tom and others for trying to charge a subscription fee. I agree with part of their argument when they say that your system doesn't have a long track record, but I disagree with the sentiment that making a profit is wrong.

I hustle and make a buck every chance I get with 2 part time businesses and a full time job. I'm looking out for number one and number one is my wife and kids.

Your system is unique and if I could figure out what the hell you are doing, then I'd already have a website up and running and I'd be making a killing off of clueless folks like me. Meanwhile I'll keep riding the gravy train and regardless of what you do, more power to ya.

StarMan
08-31-2007, 12:22 AM
I've been following the commentary on TSP Talk for some time now. Tom's analysis and the opinions of a few other members have always influenced my TSP trades to some degree. When I first came across ebbnflow's system, I didn't think much of it. Another timing system. As time passed, I just flatout couldn't ignore the growing percentage difference between the ebbtracker and the individual TSP Funds. I'm an oldtimer (35 years federal service) and have been in TSP since its inception. I'll use any edge I can find, and for quite a while now its been the ebbtracker. It has made me far more this year than I feel I could have done on my own. The posted weekly results speak for themselves. Call it a hot streak - whatever. I have to give the man his due. Until I see continual bad calls or negative percentages, I'm with it. We shall see. I would GLADLY pay a few bucks a month for continued access. Keep it flowing, ebbnflow. I'll be standing in line to subscribe.

ebbnflow
08-31-2007, 01:18 AM
Dang, if we go the subscription route, these posts are going to serve as fine testimonials! Thanks for the great feedback. :D

JTH
08-31-2007, 01:23 AM
Mr Tom & others


Please humor me with my hypothetical thought here...:rolleyes:

If you drastically increased your membership, and the vast majority of your members followed the various trading systems...

Could it be that TSPTalk could move the market and in effect negate the true effectiveness of the trading systems?

RPM
08-31-2007, 01:41 AM
Dang, if we go the subscription route, these posts are going to serve as fine testimonials! Thanks for the great feedback. :D

Ebb:

Did you check with Jayhawker how he made out with donations for TSPLookup? Maybe going that way might work for awhile? Not that I think you don't deserve regular income for all your selfless sharing of your system, but with so many happy people making money using your system, they probably would be happy to share some of their gains, and yet, if/when the system is out of sync, then you'd still be able to keep the good will of the board members. Just have a banner on your web page to remind people to give each day you hit a 1% return day!!!:D

Remo
08-31-2007, 05:29 AM
What do say? Any comments, feedback, suggestions, questions?

If there is a positive reception to this idea, I may write something similar to this in my commentary to get everyone on board. Otherwise, we will likely go to a subscription service some time this Fall.

Thanks!

This may have been covered already, but have you considered putting up a PayPal icon and asking for donations? Maybe donations can satisfy your financial needs for TSPTalk.com until traffic growth increases to the point where the site ignites with the heat of a newborn star...
At that point you might need more server space and hence...more money, hmmmmm it seems like a vicious cycle. I think it's worth looking into.

I love this site because it is FREE and it has a "family" feel to it. If you make the site fee-based, I'll have to respectfully decline and go my own way. I already have an Edward Jones account with an excellent financial adviser. TSPTalk.com is an awesome website that offers more than TSP advise...it offers comraderie and friendship...you can't buy that and you shouldn't try to charge for it. There has to be a solution that fits your monetary need and keeps the site and it's denizens together....for free.
Respectfully,
Remo

Show-me
08-31-2007, 05:33 AM
You guy need to think about it. Ebb is up around 20% this year. What is the buy and hold return for the year? What is 20% of $10,000? I'll pay $15/month to make $2,000/month.

To me it IS a no brainier!

Vintage Money
08-31-2007, 08:16 AM
In my first posting I mentioned I was new and just getting started. Ebbnflow's system is fantastic and I am a believer. The idea that he shares this information with others is greatly apprecitaed by me. If, or when, the day comes that a fee must be provided in order to recieve the information - although I would prefer to keep what I have, I will glady share in the associated costs.

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 08:26 AM
If you drastically increased your membership, and the vast majority of your members followed the various trading systems...

Could it be that TSPTalk could move the market and in effect negate the true effectiveness of the trading systems?
I guess it's possible. I continue to worry that with all the buy and sell orders input by noon ET, and us not getting a price until the close, the market will move against us between noon and the close, whether it's because TSP needs to start to buy and sell during the day to get the transactions processed, or because someone in the know is using the information to jump in front of us. Does that make sense?

One thing that has not been discussed and is such a No-Brainer! is that you can use the Ebbchart outside of TSP. Think how much pocket money you can make with your Scottrade account trading the SPY or QQQQ or EFA, AGG, etc. No delays and fair value either. Is that worth $15 a month? The $100 and $150 an hour financial planners, and brokers will be signing up I'm sure. :)

Again, I would prefer to keep it free. It will be a lot less work for me (managing subscriptions will have to be programmed in and managed). But we need traffic. I had seen a slight increase in August, and it was a little more than typical growth we've experience over the last 3+ years - which is great. But we need an explosion. We had close to 11K visitors yesterday. We're looking for 40K to 50K. Spread the word!

Or, there is something to be said about keeping our group small (and paying the fee). For the reason JTH mentioned but also things like, how will TSP react to 4 or 5 tims the tranasactions? What if they make changes? Right now we are impacting things. Can you image what happens if we quadruple in size?

fedgolfer
08-31-2007, 08:27 AM
I like Ebb a lot... although I think mandatory fee for service isn't the best route. There are other sites that do that and also don't tell you thier formulas for making IFTs. I respect Ebb's success, but its still a relatively short track record. Hypothetically, if I follow Ebb for a year and make 20% or more, I'll throw him a nice chunk end-of-year as a voluntary donation... probably significantly more than what would add up to a yearly subscription fee -- which I would not join, unless I could get more data/insight on how he arrives at what makes things go from red light to green light.

Birchtree
08-31-2007, 08:42 AM
I've been making my own decisions for too long to change now - sorry. When I give some back I don't blame anyone and in the same vein, when I pull down the gains I don't share the accolades. I'm a happy camper cutting my own trail. And I've done it the hard way over the years and believe me there is no easy way. And for the new folks on the team I'll repeat my investing philosophy: What's easy to do is almost always the wrong thing to do. And what's hard to do is almost always what makes you money. The choice and ultimate sacrifice is yours to make. My $0.02.

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by Remo http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?p=112900#post112900)
This may have been covered already, but have you considered putting up a PayPal icon and asking for donations? Maybe donations can satisfy your financial needs for TSPTalk.com until traffic growth increases to the point where the site ignites with the heat of a newborn star...
At that point you might need more server space and hence...more money, hmmmmm it seems like a vicious cycle. I think it's worth looking into.

I love this site because it is FREE and it has a "family" feel to it. If you make the site fee-based, I'll have to respectfully decline and go my own way.
Thanks for the feedback. The site will remain free but there may be services that move into premium services, like RevShark newsletter. We went through this back then too.

Yes, increasing traffic means more equipment. You think $15 is a lot? I pay over $160 a month for the server we are using right now. That will likely double or triple if we do have a 5 fold increase in traffic. The email alerts cost me another $150 a month and will go to $250 when we hit 25K members. The stupid polls on the home page cost me $20 a month. I could go on. Somethimes you just have to pay for services. Think about what you would be getting for that $15. If someone chooses not to pay $15 for this incredible tool, that's fine. The rest of the site will still be here for you too.

I forgot to mention, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying while I make my point, since EWGuy (EW_ret) wasn't getting any donations (donations don't work) I have been giving him $200 a month to do the tracker. People get tired of giving without getting back. He didn't want to do it anymore. If Ebb doesn't get compensated he may give up one day too.

oreo
08-31-2007, 09:11 AM
Tom -

Have you ever considered setting up a centralized site for donations. I gave to Jayhawker for the TSP Lookup. It was the best money I have ever spent. If he needed more, I would gladly give him an additional donation. I would also love to give a donation to Ebb because I follow his system but I don't know how to do that. I would also give a donation to you to offset the costs of running the board if I knew how to. I'm a big believer that those fortunate enough to receive something of value should give back something for those blessings. I think the benefits I have gotten from this board are more than worthy of my donations. The guidance I have received from this board have helped me signifcantly increase my account and I believe those that those who helped me attain that benefit should be rewarded

The point I am making is that people wishing to give donations don't have a centralized place to find out who to give donations to. Unless they use the service, I think a lot of people are unaware of whether that takes donations or not. I think a centralized donation site with instructions would help.

Also, I'm not an expert, but has anyone investigated whether a donation can be tax deductible like the combined federal campaign. I'm sure its probably been discusssed before but I don't recall seeing it.

Just my 2 cents.

EW_ret
08-31-2007, 09:20 AM
I agree that the donation route does not work for paying the bills. I received only two donations from the Tracker page, and that was from the first two weeks in June when the donation button was added to the Tracker page. Thank you to those who donated.

My opinion here is just how I see it. Going to a paid service for the EbbTracker and Trader Fred will likely occur because at best I only see a doubling in traffic at TSTalk.com over the next four months. The summer months are slow all over the internet and the markets. Starting in September and October the traffic will pick up. I see TSP.gov implementing new trading rules next years that will limit daily/weekly trading. The bottom line is it will cost you to trade frequently. I say we will have to transition to the paid services. For each service, start at $120 for a year, $36 for 3 months, and $15 a month for a monthly commitment. A fee exceeding $15 a month would drastically reduce subscriptions.


Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

vic
08-31-2007, 09:21 AM
It's the American way. I can understand wanting to gain from your knowledge and hard work. Although it does not have a long track recored, or does it? Maybe you have been using it for a long time. This site has grown over the years because for the most part it had a very friendly atmosphere. I understandwanting to take advantage of what appears to be a "no brainer", but just proceed cautiously so as to not loose the majority of your subcribers.If it is kept reasonable I would probably join, and I"m not a fan of joining clubs, do not belong to any. I do my own research and investing. You do have expensess and a small fee with all of the members you now have and are picking up daily, don't get greedy! I enjoy this site although I do not contribute very much, but do read it daily. Those stupid polls are not worth $20 a month. Save yourselve some money. Good luck

mamikin
08-31-2007, 09:41 AM
I don't post here daily, but I'm hear reading what everyone has to say daily. I find this site very valuable and I would be willing to pay a minor fee in order to access what Trader Fred and Ebb have to say about the market. I don't think that the $15 or $25 proposed fee is too much. Ebb and Trader Fred should be compensated for their efforts, as should Tom. And remember, access to the general site will still be free.

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 10:00 AM
Those stupid polls are not worth $20 a month. Save yourselve some money.
I guess you don't follow the sentiment survey system (http://www.tsptalk.com/sentiment.php), which is up 15.7%. :)

ATCJeff
08-31-2007, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the feedback. The site will remain free but there may be services that move into premium services, like RevShark newsletter. We went through this back then too.

Yes, increasing traffic means more equipment. You think $15 is a lot? I pay over $160 a month for the server we are using right now. That will likely double or triple if we do have a 5 fold increase in traffic. The email alerts cost me another $150 a month and will go to $250 when we hit 25K members. The stupid polls on the home page cost me $20 a month. I could go on. Somethimes you just have to pay for services. Think about what you would be getting for that $15. If someone chooses not to pay $15 for this incredible tool, that's fine. The rest of the site will still be here for you too.

I forgot to mention, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying while I make my point, since EWGuy (EW_ret) wasn't getting any donations (donations don't work) I have been giving him $200 a month to do the tracker. People get tired of giving without getting back. He didn't want to do it anymore. If Ebb doesn't get compensated he may give up one day too.


It's the American way. I can understand wanting to gain from your knowledge and hard work. Although it does not have a long track recored, or does it? Maybe you have been using it for a long time. This site has grown over the years because for the most part it had a very friendly atmosphere. I understandwanting to take advantage of what appears to be a "no brainer", but just proceed cautiously so as to not loose the majority of your subcribers.If it is kept reasonable I would probably join, and I"m not a fan of joining clubs, do not belong to any. I do my own research and investing. You do have expensess and a small fee with all of the members you now have and are picking up daily, don't get greedy! I enjoy this site although I do not contribute very much, but do read it daily. Those stupid polls are not worth $20 a month. Save yourselve some money. Good luck

Please remember Tom use the word "stupid" first.

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 10:50 AM
Please remember Tom use the word "stupid" first.
I'm not sure what you're getting at there, but my point is not that the polls are stupid (OK, not the sentiment survey ones anyway, :D), but that a service so minor costs more than what we're looking to charge for the ebbchart system, yet I pay it to keep the sentiment survey going.

nsurf9
08-31-2007, 10:53 AM
It seems like there used to be A donation button on the TSP home page. But, I couldn't find it today. I suggest that a donation button/radio be prominently placed on the TSPTalk home page - or perhaps on every page.

Payment by donors must be made easy - e.g. with Paypal; or/and address to mail a check. Keeping it voluntary allows new users to fully get to know the site and profiting users to be "gently" reminded that they can donate as much and/or as often - especially when they profit, to make a donation. Perhaps, even give donate buttons Ebb and Fred pages, specifically, so as to permit users to, in turn, reward the success of that system.

As a note, I seldom look to the "Sentiment" survey, but will from now on considering its good return.

Also, would you consider a current fair-value for the Ebb page. And, lastly, clarify Ebb page as to when when the interfund transfer needs to be made.

NSURF9

RunningFool
08-31-2007, 11:19 AM
Let everyone have a paypal donation button, like a tip jar. When they give good advice, Tip them. I am sure I could quit my real job with all the tips I would get (NOT):nuts:

fabijo
08-31-2007, 11:32 AM
Maybe we could start a pyramid scheme or a chain letter! :D

RunningFool
08-31-2007, 11:47 AM
I have a really good deal on a bridge in Yonkers. ( Wherever that is.)

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 11:54 AM
Let everyone have a paypal donation button, like a tip jar. When they give good advice, Tip them. I am sure I could quit my real job with all the tips I would get (NOT):nuts:
Yeah, people won't donate. A few will at first. Some are very generous. But then it stops. Been there, done that.

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 11:55 AM
Maybe we could start a pyramid scheme or a chain letter! :D
Amway for TSP - beautiful! :D

BeaverState
08-31-2007, 12:08 PM
Yeah, people won't donate. A few will at first. Some are very generous. But then it stops. Been there, done that.
Author Andrew Tobias "The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need" tried the donation route on his website. You can read his comments here http://www.andrewtobias.com/newcolumns/010220.html

CorMaGa34
08-31-2007, 12:08 PM
MY FELLOW CO-MEMBERS, MODERATORS, TOM AND EBBNFLOW...

Donations may work when there is an HONOR CODE to be followed. That is, give according to how much $ your TSP earned in a day because of Tom and Ebbnflow, and/or according to your present situation.

We all know that the thousands of members are a very diversified bunch. From happy retirees with very nice portfolios, to retirees who are not as well off, to members in the middle of or near retirement and are being very cautious about every single penny spent due to the uncertainty of retirement, to those who just started with the Fed and are ahead of the game by starting early. If we all gave an honest donation there would be no need for a set fee. Granted, we may all not be able to give the same $ amount or % but, again, it will be according to our individual financial gains and present situation.

We need to be honest and give Tom and Ebbnflow what is due to them. If it were any of us spending all the energy, time and $ on something to benefit "the FED mankind", certainly we would want to be reimbursed. After all, they are working for us 'FOR FREE'. It's fair and just.

My two cents... centavitos... and let's keep the integrity of the group by appreciating the work they do for us. I send e-mails and tell friends (active/retired mil/civilians all over the world about tsptalk and will continue to do so. Let's set ourselves a goal of telling at least so many people a week about our site, with the right enthusiasm and the right attitude we will have thousands logging in daily.

Let's give it a try. Agreed???

;)

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 12:32 PM
Author Andrew Tobias "The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need" tried the donation route on his website. You can read his comments here http://www.andrewtobias.com/newcolumns/010220.html
That's good. Thanks for sharing.

SkyPilot
08-31-2007, 12:57 PM
And, lastly, clarify Ebb page as to when when the interfund transfer needs to be made. NSURF9

This is not an EbbTracker issue, so much as it is an IFT (inter-fund transfer) issue. Fund transfers must be completed by Noon EST for the following trading day (usually the next business day, but when we have a holiday, then the next business day).

So, if the tracker indicates I fund for a Thursday, the IFT to the I fund must be made before Noon EST on Wednesday, so on and so forth...

The EbbTracker only tells you what the position for a particular day will be, you must assure that you make the IFT in a timely fashion for it to be in effect on that day.

However, the EbbTracker gives you at least a day advance notice regarding what the allocations will be for any particular date.

Good Luck!

RPM
08-31-2007, 01:09 PM
That's good. Thanks for sharing.

I don't think you can compare this site to a "news/opinion" site. On one hand, this site is providing a great service to all Fed members, on the other hand, IMHO, the "news/opinion" site is really for the writer to express his/her need to express, whether I agree with it or not is up to me. I have seen many sites that provide a service do well with donations. My suggestion:
- Make this site into a nonprofit site
- Have a page summarizing your cost/income (from Adsense??)
- Allow members to donate at their will

I totally appreciate the camaraderie on the site, and would love to make all information available to everyone. As one member points out, those of us who "really" appreciate the help of other members would not mind give more. And on the exuberance I have seen from a lot of members on the days the market went up, I have no doubt that they would be happy to click the donation to Ebb/Tom.

I certainly don't want Tom to loose out by providing us with this great web site, but I think making the advice available to everybody who gets on the site is very important. I value the input of a lot of members, and just because their input does not have a clear system does not lessen their value. Once you start charging for some, then others will follow.

Personnally, I love my job, and don't even want to have to go through the hassle at work to report a secondary income, and have someone watch over my shoulder for every click I make on my computer.

My own $0.02 :D

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 01:16 PM
MY FELLOW CO-MEMBERS, MODERATORS, TOM AND EBBNFLOW...

Donations may work when there is an HONOR CODE to be followed.

Let's give it a try. Agreed???
CorMaGa34 - Thanks for the college try. It is much appreciated. But read the post (with link) above your and you will see the problem. People expect things for free and will complain if they don't get it. There will be those who will donate, but not many, and not for long. The attitude is why donate when you don't have to? Asking for donations is a futile endeavor.

fabijo
08-31-2007, 01:23 PM
We could do what Public TV and Public radio do every so often. Have a week long donation drive every once in a while, where the site is constantly popping up with donation reminders every couple of minutes. It should get so annoying during that week that most of us will donate just to shut it off. You could do the donation drive on very key economic weeks, where tons of economic data are coming out and everybody is scrambling to TSP Talk to read what people are saying.

DAWG51
08-31-2007, 01:40 PM
Tom,

Thank you for this website - It has certainly enhanced my TSP Account. I read your commentary, Trader Fred's charts (at least I try to read them) and look at the Ebb Tracker daily. Paying a fee is not a problem.

My concern is guys like Griffin, 12%, Fundsurfer, Paladin, and a few others will discontinue posting. Why would they pay to give advice? I'm not sure what is the best approach but maybe in addition to a fee, consider creating an advisory board of the "Market Smart" gang and treat them special (not the short bus special);

Maybe a bonus for the top 5 producers each year;

I think the donation idea would work if the system was easier; Maybe a "Tip Jar" thread where all you had to do was post in the thread stating "I would like to give a $10 tip to Person X for their TSP tip on Tuesday". The money would then be automatically debited from your account. It would be kinda fun watching the tipping thread.

.....Just writing out loud. Thanks again, Clay

JTH
08-31-2007, 02:06 PM
Or, there is something to be said about keeping our group small (and paying the fee). For the reason JTH mentioned but also things like, how will TSP react to 4 or 5 tims the tranasactions? What if they make changes? Right now we are impacting things. Can you image what happens if we quadruple in size?

I'd have to guess that all these IFTs are pis_ing off the TSP Gods :D
The biggest concern I have about that is if we start getting charged IFT fees as those fees would have an impact on our gains.

On a side-note... I've noticed some forums restrict guest from viewing attachments and sections of the Forum. This could motivate guest to sign up. Members may be more likely to visit more often then guest, especially if you sent out a weekly automated email to ALL members.

While I'm at it, please allow me to criticize the website from a newbies point of view...

I spend 90% of my internet time on various forums. Some of the better forums have Stickys for all the most common questions the Newbies have. It must get old hearing the Elders answer the same question over and over again. When I first joined I had to spend a great deal of time digging through old threads and the search feature was not so kind to me.

From my perspective a lack of understanding can equate to a lack of commitment. Some newbies may get frustrated if they can't grasp the basics. If the newbies can get educated quicker, they may be more likely to hang around and even participate.

That's all for now, I'm off today :D

SkyPilot
08-31-2007, 02:21 PM
I'd have to guess that all these IFTs are pis_ing off the TSP Gods :D
The biggest concern I have about that is if we start getting charged IFT fees as those fees would have an impact on our gains.


Very few Gov't employees manage their accounts actively, with many going into L accounts or leaving it in G funds. So, while there is some talk of charging fees, the truth is, the cost associated with setting up a system to track and assess fees is way outsized to deal with this issue.

So, this is a minor annoyance to them.

It would take most of the Gov't employees trading at one time (in the same direction) on a light volume day to even register a blip for the market. I don't think any system anywhere related to TSP funds will do that.

Birchtree
08-31-2007, 02:29 PM
Some of us are aware that the closer is always close by and things can cool at any time. Just be cognizant of that possibility. There will always be members that will travel the road less traveled and seek their own edge.

whitemingo
08-31-2007, 03:04 PM
Tom and Ebb,

I think that anybody using the information from this site and making moves with their account should not have an issue paying for site access. I gain more than $20.00 per month of information from this site. For somebody to trade stocks with Fidelity there is achargs of $19.95 per trade. I think the $20.00 per month for the subscription is a good deal. Three weeks after I found this site I started my subscription. If we get more people onto this site then maybe there will not be a need to charge. Tsptalk deals specifically with the TSP funds. I do not know of anyplace else to get this info without have to sift through other outside information. I have put up signs at work and explain how to follow the systems on the phone in the evenings.

Tom, Ebb, Divot,and Fred please keep up the good work. I would not be making TSP trades without the info you provide.

Thanks guys,

Whitemingo

ebbnflow
08-31-2007, 03:09 PM
Tom and Ebb,

I think that anybody using the information from this site and making moves with their account should not have an issue paying for site access. I gain more than $20.00 per month of information from this site. For somebody to trade stocks with Fidelity there is achargs of $19.95 per trade. I think the $20.00 per month for the subscription is a good deal. Three weeks after I found this site I started my subscription. If we get more people onto this site then maybe there will not be a need to charge. Tsptalk deals specifically with the TSP funds. I do not know of anyplace else to get this info without have to sift through other outside information. I have put up signs at work and explain how to follow the systems on the phone in the evenings.

Tom, Ebb, Divot,and Fred please keep up the good work. I would not be making TSP trades without the info you provide.

Thanks guys,

Whitemingo

That's a good idea, Whitemingo! Printing up a page of the ebbchart and posting it in the locker room's message board for everyone to see. :)

Remo
08-31-2007, 04:04 PM
I forgot to mention, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying while I make my point, since EWGuy (EW_ret) wasn't getting any donations (donations don't work) I have been giving him $200 a month to do the tracker. People get tired of giving without getting back. He didn't want to do it anymore. If Ebb doesn't get compensated he may give up one day too.

I guess my big question is, what was the original reason for starting up TSPTalk? Was it a labor of love that grew too large to dote on like a loving parent? or Was TSPTalk born for purely capitalistic reasons? (Absolutely nothing wrong with that!) If it's the former...hey, I love my sailboat, but do you know how much it costs to keep that thing afloat and seaworthy? Hobbies cost money. If it's the latter then you need to pick a time and a strategy and just go for it. TSPTalk will either fly or flop. I tend to think you've got a good thing and it will fly...

EW, thank you for taking care of the Tracker! and Tom, thank you for providing such an awesome forum.

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 04:28 PM
I guess my big question is, what was the original reason for starting up TSPTalk? Was it a labor of love that grew too large to dote on like a loving parent? or Was TSPTalk born for purely capitalistic reasons? (Absolutely nothing wrong with that!)
Investing and trading have been hobbies of mine for a long time and I saw the opportunity for a business doing something I enjoyed. I believe I was one of the first, if not the first TSP sites, and others have jumped on the bandwagon. If I died today I'd go knowing a lot of people are more knowledgeable about investing and their TSP because of an idea I had - whether they got that info from here or another site that popped up as a copycat site. But I definitely saw it as a capitalistic opportunity in the end.

ATCJeff
08-31-2007, 05:06 PM
I'm not sure what you're getting at there, but my point is not that the polls are stupid (OK, not the sentiment survey ones anyway, :D), but that a service so minor costs more than what we're looking to charge for the ebbchart system, yet I pay it to keep the sentiment survey going.

I was just looking out for VIC in case some didnt read all the post and thought Vic was calling the polls stupid. I didn't want him to get blasted.:)

ATCJeff
08-31-2007, 05:08 PM
Maybe we could start a pyramid scheme or a chain letter! :D

I'm in!:D Just as long as I'm first. No sloppy seconds.

ATCJeff
08-31-2007, 05:15 PM
We could do what Public TV and Public radio do every so often. Have a week long donation drive every once in a while, where the site is constantly popping up with donation reminders every couple of minutes. It should get so annoying during that week that most of us will donate just to shut it off. You could do the donation drive on very key economic weeks, where tons of economic data are coming out and everybody is scrambling to TSP Talk to read what people are saying.

Note to self....

Write code for donation blocker this weekend and ask Tom to sell code on his site.....:D:D:D

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 05:29 PM
I was just looking out for VIC in case some didnt read all the post and thought Vic was calling the polls stupid. I didn't want him to get blasted.:)
Ah! :laugh: Hey, this is one close bunch. Everyone's got everyone else's back. :)

FUTURESTRADER
08-31-2007, 05:45 PM
It would take most of the Gov't employees trading at one time (in the same direction) on a light volume day to even register a blip for the market. I don't think any system anywhere related to TSP funds will do that.

until the hedge funds get wind of the ebbtracker, then bet heavy on S&P futures:)

budnipper1
08-31-2007, 07:22 PM
Let everyone have a paypal donation button, like a tip jar. When they give good advice, Tip them. I am sure I could quit my real job with all the tips I would get (NOT):nuts:


http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/27/27299/folders/216042/2209905TSPprofitsharingpic.jpg
:rolleyes:

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 07:22 PM
until the hedge funds get wind of the ebbtracker, then bet heavy on S&P futures:)
That's what I worry about. Any non TSP'er can make their transfer in front of us and we will always get a bad "fill". This is one reason to charge - to limit the number of people who use it.

jayhawker
08-31-2007, 07:39 PM
If our options are:

1) charge for some services
2) increase traffic

then what can we as users do to increase traffic?

Create a TSPTalk.com advertisement as a .pdf file suitable for printing on 8.5 x 11 office paper. Make it available here for anyone to download. Download it, print it, and post it on bulletin boards in our offices and facilities.

Just one idea.

Ed.

Show-me
08-31-2007, 07:41 PM
It's easy. Type up a page and print it on your printer. Take a few to work and put them up on the employee bulletin boards, locker rooms, etc.


Money ain't everything, but it sure makes life more comfortable.


www.TSPTalk.com (http://www.TSPTalk.com)


Easy to understand TSP Talk.


Make you nest egg grow!!!


www.TSPTalk.com (http://www.TSPTalk.com)


Come grow with us!



More fun than a barrel full of monkeys!


Fell free to cut and paste until you heart is content.

jayhawker
08-31-2007, 07:44 PM
Fell free to cut and paste until you heart is content.

Well... yeah...

I was thinking of something slighty more professional. But... that would work too. :D

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 08:31 PM
weatherweenie asked about a flyer. I'll see if my wife will do one. She does them for our gallery all the time. She's a little more creative than I am.

James48843
08-31-2007, 08:54 PM
Tom,

Thank you for this website - It has certainly enhanced my TSP Account. I read your commentary, Trader Fred's charts (at least I try to read them) and look at the Ebb Tracker daily. Paying a fee is not a problem.

My concern is guys like Griffin, 12%, Fundsurfer, Paladin, and a few others will discontinue posting. Why would they pay to give advice? I'm not sure what is the best approach but maybe in addition to a fee, consider creating an advisory board of the "Market Smart" gang and treat them special (not the short bus special);

Maybe a bonus for the top 5 producers each year;

I think the donation idea would work if the system was easier; Maybe a "Tip Jar" thread where all you had to do was post in the thread stating "I would like to give a $10 tip to Person X for their TSP tip on Tuesday". The money would then be automatically debited from your account. It would be kinda fun watching the tipping thread.

.....Just writing out loud. Thanks again, Clay


Ahh... well,,,, we COULD become a gambling site, as in a 50/50 competition each month. eveybody kick in $10 to play, and the winner gets 50% of the profit, with TSPTALK getting the other half.

Of couse, that could get us all fired if we posted from work.....

Maybe that's not such a hot idea......:(

Show-me
08-31-2007, 09:09 PM
Well... yeah...

I was thinking of something slighty more professional. But... that would work too. :D

Yea, kind of crude. Have a good weekend. :D

GGal
08-31-2007, 09:37 PM
Dawg brought up an excellent point.

There are several people here who contribute lots of wonderful information and advice.

I am not going to try to name them all because I could not possibly do that without leaving someone out.

And that is my point, some of them may be offended and feel unappreciated if they are asked to pay, when after all, they contribute so much. Yet at the same time, one cannot pick and choose who must pay and who must not.

I can't offer a solution to this, just wanted to make the point.



GGAL

SkyPilot
08-31-2007, 10:06 PM
That's what I worry about. Any non TSP'er can make their transfer in front of us and we will always get a bad "fill". This is one reason to charge - to limit the number of people who use it.

Of course, "they" could subscribe as well :confused:

tsptalk
08-31-2007, 10:16 PM
Of course, "they" could subscribe as well :confused:
New rule - Must have a government / military ID card to join. Otherwise, $1000/mo. :D

wv-girl
08-31-2007, 10:50 PM
New rule - Must have a government / military ID card to join. Otherwise, $1000/mo. :D

Actually that is a very good idea. We must not assume that all who benefit from tsptalk is govt/military. Even if it is a low pct that would help to weed out those who aren't. Also, I think a further division should be considered. Anyone on active duty in the military should not have to pay. A small token of our appreciation to those who help keep the USA great.

Debbie

jayhawker
09-01-2007, 05:23 AM
Ahh... well,,,, we COULD become a gambling site, as in a 50/50 competition each month. eveybody kick in $10 to play, and the winner gets 50% of the profit, with TSPTALK getting the other half.

Of couse, that could get us all fired if we posted from work.....

Maybe that's not such a hot idea......:(

I LIKE this idea. Tom benefits, and participants have a chance to win. It's like para-mutual wagering or a lottery ticket. Who here doesn't spend $10 a month on lottery tickets??? I would suggest paying win, place and show. :)

nnuut
09-01-2007, 08:54 AM
Ahh... well,,,, we COULD become a gambling site, as in a 50/50 competition each month. eveybody kick in $10 to play, and the winner gets 50% of the profit, with TSPTALK getting the other half.

Of couse, that could get us all fired if we posted from work.....

Maybe that's not such a hot idea......:(

Not gambling if we give a free month subscription.:D I don't think!:blink:

nnuut
09-01-2007, 09:19 AM
One other thing......................?
If we are a subscription site that charges to get Premium Services, EBBTracker, Trader Fred, RevShark, Tracker, how can we have lurkers without SPILLING THE BEANS? We discuss our allocations/IFTs daily on most of the threads. Could We have a portion of the Board that LURKERS/Potential Members can visit and the serious business on the Pay Pportion. This is really hard to do. What I see is a cover page that explains what we offer, records of Gains/Losses and that's it, or we would give it away. I think the main reason we get most members is that they can access all of the info, view the daily bander and get involved, they almost can't help but get involved, I couldn't! One of the beauties of this site is you never know just who is going to POP UP and join the conversation, Joe Blow or JP Getty. We will lose that spontaneity, this is one of the Big Reasons we are still here and other sites fail. I've been to some of the pay sites, when I read their cover info and record, Price per month I think Yeah, Yeah sure you can ----- GOOD BYE, click and I'm out of there. They get into the doldrums, no new subscribers, no off the cuff comments from someone that just run accross the site with a Google search. No other way, I guess?:sick:
Norman

nnuut
09-01-2007, 09:28 AM
Hey, how about a one week FREE subscription to any new potential Members including everything, the whole smear? And a cut rate on the first full month. That way they can try us out and get HOOKED just like I did. I think that would work, a FREE TRIAL subscription.
Norman:D

ayla
09-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Doesn't seem like there will be much motivation for those who are very experienced and know the market well (or who are very lucky) to stay vested if they have to pay. It seems like only those of us (like me) who need help will be motivated but then because the more experienced ones will be dropping out, there will be no one (or few) for us to learn from so then, the result is that the site will be simply for those who want to blindly follow ebb or Fred or Tom (or maybe shark?) and not for those who want to learn, seems counter to what the site has been - almost 180 degrees.

I understand the capitalistic motivation and don't resent it but call it like it is, the charter for this site will change drastically and for many of us, not too much incentive to pay.

Thanks Tom for allowing me to at least have a few months to learn. It has truly been invaluable and though my returns don't show it, I believe I can manage just as well without paying. Though I may change my mind...not sure yet.

nnuut
09-01-2007, 10:42 AM
I reallly don't think the experianced Members will leave for $10 - $15 a month. It will be as it is now, not all will agree with the pay service allocations and will be more than willing to explain why. We have to get the newbies hooked though!!
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=113211&postcount=123

Birchtree
09-01-2007, 12:37 PM
Seriously though, anyone who comes to this site with deep pockets will spend a year, at least, in the lurking mode before money is placed on the thin blue line. Common sense will dictate that a learning process is necessary and certainly mandatory. Anyone with shallow pockets that wants to ride has not put much at stake and will not suffer much indignity. Once involved in investing for retirement it becomes a life time endeavor because you can most assuredly increase your net worth dramatically. But as most of us know and have experienced there is danger around every bend - learning how to handle that danger is half the battle. A pay service would be welcomed and rewarding for some folks - but for me there still exists a multitude of other ways for me to lose money. I'll remain a contrarian and independent of thought and practice. I will still post because when I post I still learn and there is plenty I have to learn yet. Before I'm finished I'd like to be acquainted with the nest egg that member White had accumulated - somewhere in the vicinity of $20M. And yes I am a dreamer but I got the base to earn so come on Elliott. Learn before you churn.

budnipper1
09-01-2007, 04:53 PM
I reallly don't think the experianced Members will leave for $10 - $15 a month. It will be as it is now, not all will agree with the pay service allocations and will be more than willing to explain why. We have to get the newbies hooked though!!
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=113211&postcount=123

For the record: Count me IN either way, pay or free.

I don't exactly remember when I first found TSPTalk's website, before registering as a member in Oct-2006. Soon after, I subscribed to the newsletter at the $19.95/monthly rate, thinking it would be worth that price for a month or so, to get the big picture.

Two months later, in January-2007, the subscription was discontinued because I concluded that the most important, useful information came from the member's discussions and opinions, and from tracking the results of their various and unique trading moves. Not to imply that the newsletters and access to Rev Shark's commentaries became any less interesting, but just not valuable enough to me to merit the expense. But, that was last January...

Since January, Trader Fred and the Ebbchart have appeared, adding even more resources to TSPTalk. Access to these features, especially the Ebbchart, is valuable to me because of my freshman experience in trading funds within my account and with financial markets in general. My returns don't show it yet because I'm still in the learning mode, but I'm fairly confident that I can improve my TSP balance eventually with the help of these important tools.

I renewed my subscription last week (at the six-months rate to save a few bucks) because I felt as though I had been taking advantage of the Tom's generosity. Hobby or whatever, I know that running this website has got to be expensive, so for as long as I continue to enjoy and benefit from it, I will continue to be a paying member.

Offering a "trial" membership for a short time period seems like a good and customary idea to me.

"Money does not grow on trees", and "You usually get what you pay for". Those two old clichés sound slightly contradictory, but they both make sense to me.

falconbws
09-02-2007, 12:36 AM
Hi all,

I have decided to come out of lurking to put my 2 cents in. I just recently started following ebb's moves early last month (august) and I am thoroughly impressed with his system. I have actually been visiting this site since I first discovered it while deployed in the desert last November, and began "lurking" around the boards upon my return to the states in February.

This site has furthered my fledgling investment knowledge ten-fold, whether it be from Tom, ebb, or some random poster on these boards. For that I am willing to pay a reasonable price from my modest E-4 paycheck :D. I just wonder if this would be a subscription based system for say a year at a time? The reason I ask, is for those months that TDY's come up or I go back to the desert and I have a hard time accessing the information on a regular basis. It would kind of blow if I still had to pay that monthly payment while I'm deployed and unable to access this site.

Anyway, while I would much rather this site enjoy prosperous growth the free way, I do understand that the amazing efforts by those that contribute to this site must not go un-payed.

DrFaustus
09-02-2007, 08:16 AM
I left the gov't in late 2004 to worship the golden calves of Raytheon. So my potential for spreading info on the tools available here is limited. I've told some of my past co-workers / friends about tsptalk but most seem content to leave their money in the G fund.

I often wonder if they realize how much potential the TSP has and if they are really aware of how much it figures into their total retirement package (assuming they are with FERS - a few of my friends are still CSRS).

BeaverState
09-02-2007, 08:38 AM
...most seem content to leave their money in the G fund.

I went to FERS/CSRS retirement training at my work and the person presenting said one of the most surprising things they've found is the high percentage of people who leave their money in the G-Fund. No matter where in the country they present or to what agency. We have a lot of work to do in spreading the word.

tsptalk
09-02-2007, 11:34 AM
I have decided to come out of lurking to put my 2 cents in.
Welcome falcombws! Thanks for jumping in.


I just wonder if this would be a subscription based system for say a year at a time?

It will probably be set up just like the current TSP Timing subscription which is, monthly payments that can be cancelled any time. So you can get it for 2 months, take a month off, start it again, etc.

Or a six-month subscriptions for a 10% discount. I haven't explored the 1-year advanced payment yet.


Anyway, while I would much rather this site enjoy prosperous growth the free way, I do understand that the amazing efforts by those that contribute to this site must not go un-payed.
Exactly. I wish my $1.60 medium cup of coffee I get every morning at the coffee shop was free, but they probably wouldn't stay in business too long.

Thanks again,
Tom

Lobo
09-03-2007, 01:30 PM
Honestly Tom....I'd be willing to pay you a fee for having the site and Ebb a fee for sharing his great model with us.

Don't even need a "fee". If you'll show me how to donate some to you and Ebb right now, I'll be glad to help out. I don't think I'm ahead this year in my TSP, but that's my fault. Obviously if I had of followed Ebb's predictions to the letter, I'd be way ahead.

However, I would still gladly reward you guys for your help to us all. The kindness you've shown in putting in the effort to keep this site going (and I'm sure it's a LOT of effort), and the knowledge you two share (and the many others in the forums) is greatly appreciated. I've not used the "tracker software" or anything else on the site(other than reading the forums) that has asked for a donation....I just mainly come here to see what you say and what Ebb is predicting, and occasionally read some on the forums. I would be one who would make the voluntary payment system work. You guys deserve it. Just let me know where I can send some payments now and then. I think most folks, like me, who have little to no knowledge of the stock market, nor the time, or desire to learn it, who see how much they can improve their own TSP from using this site, will surely be glad to share some of that with you?!? I would at least hope so.

I have spread the news around to a lot of folks. Why not have them share our good fortune in finding you?? But, I do see that most, by far, are happy to just let the funds sit in G, or ride long term scattered among the funds. Folks have so long "preached" that you can NOT make money trying to time the market, that they are sold to not switch around much at all. So, I don't know if you would ever get a very large following here at your site. But, those who do come will benefit.

Good luck in your decision. Either way, I'm in. Either way, I'll be glad to send a little money occasionally to help out. I retire in about 10 months, and will continue to "play" the TSP account after retirement.

Thanks!

Lobo

tsptalk
09-03-2007, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback Lobo. I'm glad some of you see the value in these systems. Value meaning worth paying a few bucks for.

As weatherweenie said, "Friends don't let friends buy and hold." :)

Birchtree
09-03-2007, 08:10 PM
If that becomes the new`mantra I'll be right at home ala contrare.

nd_fan77
09-06-2007, 07:48 AM
How about giving a couple weeks to see how much can be spread on this website to others. People can hangs flyers up around their workplaces and just spread the word. What about making people sign up to read the boards??? I was a lurker for a long time until the last month or so signing up. I wish we could make people sign up to read the boards first then people spread the word and see how much the members go up. Worth a shot???

Minnow
09-06-2007, 09:51 AM
I found this site by word of mouth and being the ever cheap government weenie, I lurked and tested before registering and joining in on some of the message boards. I am almost sold on the Ebbchart-- been making a little bit of scratch, too. Being both elated and burned from daytrading before ( I know, I know before you say anything, I know IFTs aren't the same thing and I think it's a crime that our TSP administrators and that Washington rag of what purports to be a real newspaper liken it to daytrading and want to start charging us to make IFTs) I think Ebb's system and much of the the TSP commentary/message boards are simply first rate.

To make a long thought short, I think a fee-based site would be just fine. Perhaps that would actually have the effect of keeping the "expensive" :laugh: IFTers numbers low enough.

BTW, I've been clicking on many ads in the site that hopefully provide those fractions of pennies to you guys.

tsptalk
09-06-2007, 10:02 AM
thanks nd_fan77. I don't mind the lurkers at all. It' not the number of registered users on the message board that I am concerned about. I can actually see how many people viewed each page on the website each day. I have seen a slight increase lately and I appreciate all of those who have spread the word, but I can't imaginge we'll see the 4 or 5 times the current traffic we'll need.

I hope they are not reading because I don't want to give them any ideas, but both Ebb and Trader Fred have something special going on and if we can't compenstate them, they can always go elsewhere where they will be.

It would be so much easier for me to see the 4X traffic increase which would increase the ad revenue for ebb, Fred, and myself. I won't have to deal with subscriptions, subscribers with problems, credit card companies, chargebacks, refunds, etc., but I just don't see happening real soon.

tsptalk
09-06-2007, 10:05 AM
One more thing, this talk of charging fees for transactions may make it in our best interest to limit those that access the systems, particularly the ebbchart which is very active. The alternative for them seems to be to limit the number of transactions.

It looks like Minnow just beat me to this. :)

buda
09-07-2007, 11:37 PM
If this is the wrong place let me know. But can I help with Adsense? I thought I heard something about that awhile back....

If some one can walk me through it PM me.

tsptalk
09-07-2007, 11:54 PM
Peruse these threads. It is pretty straight forward. Start an adsense account. Get a Google Adsense client ID. Add it to your userCP profile.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=3906

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/faq.php?faq=revenue_sharing

If you have questions, you'll want to post it here Making Money on TSP Talk - Ad Revenue Sharing (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=3906) or send me a PM.

Thanks,
Tom

budnipper1
09-08-2007, 12:00 AM
If this is the wrong place let me know. But can I help with Adsense? I thought I heard something about that awhile back....

If some one can walk me through it PM me.

Adsense informational link on TSP Talk:
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/faq.php?faq=revenue_sharing

Removed1
09-08-2007, 06:58 PM
Hello Tom,
As I post on EBB thread,I think the pay pal button should be on the home page so anyone who wants to contribute to TSPTALK,EBB has the way to do it I think many people will.My husband suggests that you can ask people who get to this web site should click on the ads so you can get credit for that.Thanks for replying to me last time,I have known this site about 10 months I don't know anything about Rev Shark,if I don't know anything about his investing style I hesistate to sucribe..that is one of disadvantages of charging you only get limited number of subcriptions to people already know him.You still get the revenue from the ads and still have pay pal contribution.Thx

tsptalk
09-08-2007, 09:41 PM
Hi Zimmy -

I haven't had a PayPal button on the site for a long time (except for the utilities page where you can download the spreadsheet.)

It just didn't work. Sure we get a few generous folks who give repeat donantions, but a few pay for the many. It isn't even worth the time. Plus using a donation feels a little like sitting on a street corner asking for spare change. :)

I don't want to get into a big thing again about to pay or not to pay, but by comparison, RevShark charges $80/mo to get his intraday market comments, or you can pay $479/mo (or $50 a day) and hang in his chat room all day. http://www.sharkinvesting.com/services.aspx So even our $20 is a good deal for him, regardless of his return this year. People that have known him for more than a couple of years know his ability and track record.

Rev started out free here as well and moved to a subscription. Same we are doing, and have always planned to do, for ebb and trader fred. Believe me, if we don't compensate ebb, someone else will and they will charge A LOT more than $15 a month. I hope ebb isn't listening. :)

budnipper1
09-08-2007, 11:24 PM
Hi Zimmy -

I haven't had a PayPal button on the site for a long time (except for the utilities page where you can download the spreadsheet.)
It just didn't work. Sure we get a few generous folks who give repeat donantions, but a few pay for the many. :)

There's a paypal donate button at: http://www.tsptalk.com/about_us2.html



Maybe this is the button that the folks have found before, but couldn't relocate later?
2091

BeaverState
09-09-2007, 09:45 AM
My husband suggests that you can ask people who get to this web site should click on the ads so you can get credit for that.
Encouraging people to click on ads is against Google's rules. It could also be considered fraud. I used to have a successful online business that used pay per click advertising (goto.com). I had to quite advertising with that company due to click fraud. Remember, many if not most of the advertisers are individuals like you and me simply puting out a service and making a little money on the side.

tsptalk
09-10-2007, 08:58 AM
There's a paypal donate button at: http://www.tsptalk.com/about_us2.html


Maybe this is the button that the folks have found before, but couldn't relocate later?
There are probably a couple of old ones out there hidden. I just took it down though. That money would go to me. I stopped asking for donations because, well it felt like pan handling, and advertising revenue began to pick up. Ebb would have to create his own paypal account to accept donations.

draggen3
09-12-2007, 09:46 AM
Mr tsp tom , We all love ebbnflow system and have profited from this , yet what kind of fee are you looking at and would it be monthly or yearly . I think we all know this might occur , yet a small fee for his time is understandable .
50 bucks a yr per say x 500 members is 25K . Just throwing it out there, curious what you and he were thinking MIGHT OCCUR!
thxs

buda
09-12-2007, 10:01 AM
Mr tsp tom , We all love ebbnflow system and have profited from this , yet what kind of fee are you looking at and would it be monthly or yearly . I think we all know this might occur , yet a small fee for his time is understandable .
50 bucks a yr per say x 500 members is 25K . Just throwing it out there, curious what you and he were thinking MIGHT OCCUR!
thxs


I have a feeling that 5obux a year will be viewed as kind of low compared to some of the paid services out there. But I'm sure they don't want to scare customers off either. If the add revenue is working then hopefully we can circumvent any high fees but until that has been determined I feel that ebb shoul at least set up paypal button for donations errrrr kickbacks!

tsptalk
09-12-2007, 02:15 PM
Mr tsp tom , We all love ebbnflow system and have profited from this , yet what kind of fee are you looking at and would it be monthly or yearly . I think we all know this might occur , yet a small fee for his time is understandable .
50 bucks a yr per say x 500 members is 25K . Just throwing it out there, curious what you and he were thinking MIGHT OCCUR!
thxs
Nothing final yet but expect $15 to $20 month with a discount for paying up front for 6 or 12 months. more... http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=114882&postcount=143

BeaverState
09-12-2007, 02:55 PM
I have a feeling that 5obux a year will be viewed as kind of low compared to some of the paid services out there.
Well TSP is supposed to have the lowest costs out there. Continuing with the low cost theme...........:p

buda
09-12-2007, 07:28 PM
Nothing final yet but expect $15 to $20 month with a discount for paying up front for 6 or 12 months. more... http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=114882&postcount=143

Count me in.....

GGal
09-13-2007, 06:29 PM
I may be persuaded to pay $15 per month, but it seems steep to me. But I've already said that.

Whoever gets the money, remember to pay self-employment tax on it.

My concern now is, if tsp starts charging fees/fines for moves, I may have to park somewhere and leave it.

GGAL

Birchtree
09-14-2007, 11:20 AM
Peaches,

The undeground economy is only a myth. Stop looking it doesn't exist.

GGal
09-14-2007, 03:21 PM
"It's my nature," said the scorpion to the frog.

GGAL

amauldin
09-15-2007, 09:56 AM
I'm with the camp that is willing to pay something for the infomation I'm getting off this site. I feel it is only fair for the amount of work that the guys behind this site put into it.

But, I will say that I haven't felt compelled to pay for any of the info off the other sites that charge for TSP strategies or systems. That would be my fear for a place like this. Lock too much away behind the "you must pay for this area" screen and you'll be turning away lots of new folks like me who might not know the true value of what you have. Sure you can promise great returns, but don't all those pay sites do that? What would make TSPTalk any different?

nnuut
09-15-2007, 11:10 AM
Don't Ya just love that German Beer, I do?
Any suggestions on how it can be done better?
I would love to see it be an informative free site myself, but we have people that are investing many, many hours developing systems and assisting Tom to make this site the BEST!!
When the change comes I don't think TSP Talk will be like the other PAY sites and not really offer anything without the $ investment from participants. The services like RevShark, Trader Fred and the Ebbnflow Trading system, yes will cost a premium. I think you will still will be able to bander on the Message Board about your IFTs and give your opinions on the state of the Market and World Economy. Tom now offers Free TSP Talk Commentary, Email alerts, many tools, utilities and a bunch of other good information like the Sentiment Survey Results These should go on as they are now, FREE!
So stay and find out how things will end up, I think you WILL like it! I'll be here!
Norman:D

Spaf
09-15-2007, 02:44 PM
nnuut, etal,

In days long gone!

My Dad had a place of business with a coke machine that sold 6 oz. sodas for 5 cents. You had to lift up the top, slide the soda along a rail into a discharge box, deposit 5 cents and pull the soda up out of the box....Wa-la!
The soda distributer always wanted to sell my Dad a new soda machine. Nothing doing, my Dad wouldn't buy!
He would say, business is good, that coke machine invites folks in. It's a great deal, and as they drink their soda, they tend to stay and buy more! If I gave it away free they would be suspicious. If I charged the regular price, we are just like the rest, why do business here.

The problem was, I was the person who had to refill the dang thing!

Spaf

nnuut
09-15-2007, 08:48 PM
Yer Dad was a really smart cookie, just like you!:cool:

tsptalk
09-18-2007, 03:08 PM
I may be persuaded to pay $15 per month, but it seems steep to me.
If your TSP account balance is $10,000, today's gains in the ebbchart system would have made you enough to pay for a 2-year subscription. If you're at $100,000 you made enough today for a 20-year subscription. A $500K account... :)

DrFaustus
09-18-2007, 03:20 PM
If your TSP account balance is $10,000, today's gains in the ebbchart system would have made you enough to pay for a 2-year subscription. If you're at $100,000 you made enough today for a 20-year subscription. A $500K account... :)

But not until you cash it out. Just because I have X amount in the TSP doesn't mean that I have $180 cash in the bank each year to spare ....

tsptalk
09-18-2007, 03:29 PM
I guess my point was that it is priced reasonably for what you get. If you can't afford it, that's another story. I would feed my family before spending it on a system. :)

Frixxxx
09-18-2007, 03:32 PM
I know the information I recieve here is money from other people's time. Don't get me wrong, I know there is time invested for the systems presented to us here but, couldn't you go outside (advertising) for revenue generation?

I have people coming to this site almost everyday now and I always sell it as "free". If you start charging, I can't tout this site for the resource it has become.

I know it's a thin line to walk when there is money involved. How about generating some Venture Capital (I'm interested), get some advertising $$, and maybe start a "teaser" program that gives people basic information but charge for the "Premium". Then go public and we live on easy street!

My $0.02

:cool:

oreo
09-18-2007, 03:37 PM
If your TSP account balance is $10,000, today's gains in the ebbchart system would have made you enough to pay for a 2-year subscription. If you're at $100,000 you made enough today for a 20-year subscription. A $500K account... :)

Tom,

I totally agree with you.

I'm not a mathematician but as I calculate it, $15/31 days in a month = approx. 48 cents a day.

If someone cannot afford to pay 48 cents a day to obtain the gains that these systems provide, then something is very, very wrong.

My account has grown exponentially since I have used these systems and I think the effort that goes into producing these systems is the world's biggest bargain at 48 cents a day. Sign me up!

tsptalk
09-18-2007, 04:46 PM
I have people coming to this site almost everyday now and I always sell it as "free". If you start charging, I can't tout this site for the resource it has become.

I appreciate the recommendations. The site is good - but ebb has taken it to another level. And we made it clear from the get go that it was going to be a premium subscription service.

You get what you pay for. My commentary is free - nuff said. :D

Most of the site will still be free. The sentiment survey system is now up about 20% this year and is free. The message board is free. The utility programs, the autotracker, etc., but if there was ever a premium service in all of the financial world - anywhere, so far the ebbchart system is it.

If ebb can keep this up and we are not paying him, it won't be long before someone else snatches him up and pays him a lot of money. I pay $35/month for realmoney.com and no one on there is doing anything close to what ebb is doing. You can pay an extra $42 a month ($500/yr) and get their ETF trading signals. Or, like I said, you can pay $475 a month and hang out in RevSharks chat room.

But whether free, $15/mo, $25/mo or even $100/month, enjoy it while you can. My guess is ebb will be taken away from us by people willing to pay him what he's worth. There's a reason why you don't see other people making these kinds of gains in a non-margin / index only account. The wealthy own them.

I am actually a little offended by those who think the ebbchart system "should" be free. I don't mean to offend back but those people can't possibly understand what this type of information is worth if they think $15 a month is too much. If we charged $50 a month, there will be those who "get it" and will pay. I'm guessing those who think $15 a month is too high, will be the first to complain when the ebb has a losing streak - because they don't "get it." Look around the internet. I guarantee you will not find a financial service with a better value. If you do, let me know because I'll want to get it myself.

Traffic is up 8% to 10% because of the ebbchart and because of your kind recommendations recently. But that is not close to the 400% or 500% increase we needed to make ad revenue an equal alternative.

I should probably close this thread now because I think we have all said our peace. If I haven't sold you buy now, I'm sure I can not convince you that the ebbchart system is worth $15/mo. And you can not convince me that it is not. I wish I could please everyone, but the bottom line is - unless the traffic manages to double between now and the end of September, only those willing to pay for the Ebb system will get access to the service once it goes to a subscription in October.

Good luck!

Frixxxx
09-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding.....touting your site as "Free", with everything you've included is a good thing. I was just trying to say that what the ebbers have gotten in return (I've been stubbornly I) is definitely worth a 15-20 spot a month. If that system stays true, the projections I'm calculating quadruple my retirement expectations.

I am in for my subscription!:cool:

tsptalk
09-18-2007, 05:45 PM
If that system stays true, the projections I'm calculating quadruple my retirement expectations.
That would be amazing! Can we put a price on early retirement? :)

mkita73
09-21-2007, 09:55 AM
nnuut, etal,

In days long gone!

My Dad had a place of business with a coke machine that sold 6 oz. sodas for 5 cents. You had to lift up the top, slide the soda along a rail into a discharge box, deposit 5 cents and pull the soda up out of the box....Wa-la!
The soda distributer always wanted to sell my Dad a new soda machine. Nothing doing, my Dad wouldn't buy!
He would say, business is good, that coke machine invites folks in. It's a great deal, and as they drink their soda, they tend to stay and buy more! If I gave it away free they would be suspicious. If I charged the regular price, we are just like the rest, why do business here.

The problem was, I was the person who had to refill the dang thing!

Spaf

I like your analogy makes sense. As I"m new to this website, I'm on the fence about whether the service should be free or not. Now it's free and I'm happy cause I'm benefitting from it. I have to think about it some more.:worried::worried:

qibovin
09-28-2007, 12:01 PM
Again, the fees can be avoided if we can push the site to 4 to 5 X current traffic levels.I've never seen a website go from a paid service to free. Most start out "free" and ad-based, establish a name for themselves, then start charging through the teeth. Example NetZero. The "Zero" used to be the price.

This is what I just posted on my Account Talk thread:

I realize that some investors with 100s of thousands, even 7 figure TSP balances can except $200+/year when they are almost guaranteed to make that up in improved gains; however, for those of us with lesser balances, just starting out, that's most of the improved performance out the door right off the bat. Obviously, there's no good accountability to be able to go with a "percent of balance" sort of fee, but I did think that this site was originally aimed at "the little man." As I've mentioned before, I do want to see these "systems" get compensated, I just think it could be done in a more cooperative way, without compromising the inter-system dialogues that are of great value and intrigue.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the response is to these paid systems, but I suspect that they might do better taking a proportionate (?based on clicks to there system pages) payment from a combined "site" fee than they will do with individual subscribers. Personally, I like to use all the knowledge available to come up with my allocations, but those combined fees are pretty steep.

I have posted before about a combined site fee for all (or Trader and Ebb) systems. The $10 range that others have mentioned would be very reasonable for this, and the increased participation would likely MORE than make up for the decreased price. JMHO and I haven't been following this entire thread, so I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but has anybody crunched the numbers or surveyed participants to get an idea of whether this would be feasable? It also just seems to me that such a combined site fee would come with a lot less disruption of the MB posts and personal ways-of-doing-things to which we each individually have become accustomed.

camper65
09-28-2007, 01:44 PM
My Daddy once told me, "There are always those who, if you gave them a brick of gold, would think it to be a brick of S----!"
On my scale, the Ebb sys. rates a B+. (There are no A's)
And "there are no sacred cows". (Seems I've said that before!)
I commend Ebb, he has done a very good job and should be compersated.
(Notice, I did not say wonderful!) If he can keep the price reasonable, (a relative term) I'm in for sure.
I've done well by myself, not great but well and know that with Ebb i could do much better.
(You just can't PLEASE everyone no matter how hard you try!)

(Opps, I'm showing my dab spelling again!) haha

Berimbauone
09-28-2007, 02:56 PM
Ebbs system is well worth a fee..thnx for sharing the wealth!