Tax Bill Passes in House and Senate...

[tsptalk]

The tax bill just passed in the House after Senate passed yesterday. Now it's off to the President's desk.

The Dow is up 1 point on the news. I guess it's priced in. :D


If it stays flat this afternoon there could be a start of a rush to take profits, although here comes the Christmas seasonal advantage.

[Danny]

Here is a link to figure out how this new bill may affect your bottom line...

Tax Calculator: What tax reform means for you | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/12/19/tax-calculator-what-tax-reform-means-for.html)

Danny

[nnuut]

Only one thing I can say. :banana:

[RazorCat]

All I can think of is :usa2::fest30::beerchug:

[Lakebound]

:banana::biggthumpup::beerchug::unitedstates::fest 30::party:

[nasa1974]

Found this interesting and wanted to pass it along.

From the Washington Post

Taxpayers will have to wait to find out how they did under the new legislation

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/taxpayers-will-have-to-wait-to-find-out-how-they-did-under-new-legislation/ar-BBH5EqN


"...ADP, one of the largest providers of payroll services, says it built its system to quickly reflect changes in the tax rate. But this tax overhaul is more complicated, said Pete Isberg, ADP's vice president of government relations. Millions of workers have filed W-4 tax forms telling their employers how much in federal taxes they need to withhold. But that form will not be applicable under the new law, Isberg said.

"Therefore, every W-4 on file, all 164 million of them, won't be valid starting next month," he said. "We believe every working person is going to need a new W-4."

The IRS may have to design an entirely new W-4 form, which could take months, Isberg said. To complicate matters further, some states have separate W-4 forms that may also have to be changed, he said. "We need guidance as soon as possible," he said.

ADP has asked the IRS whether it can automatically convert old W-4 forms into new documents without requiring employees to fill out anything, but the company has not received a response. "We're looking at ways that we can simplify this for employers," he said..."

[konakathy]

🦇💩🤪🐘🇺🇸👏🏻🍾

[rktect1]

I live in Illinois so this tax plan actually hurts me. But it was time to hurt Illinois as they have for 40 plus years screwed us with higher and higher property taxes. I currently pay $15,000 in property taxes on a 3200 sq. ft. $600,000 home. Its crazy.

[userque]

Yeah, this is what happens when legislation is unnecessarily rushed. I'm sure more surprises are ahead.


Found this interesting and wanted to pass it along.

From the Washington Post

Taxpayers will have to wait to find out how they did under the new legislation

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/taxpayers-will-have-to-wait-to-find-out-how-they-did-under-new-legislation/ar-BBH5EqN


"...ADP, one of the largest providers of payroll services, says it built its system to quickly reflect changes in the tax rate. But this tax overhaul is more complicated, said Pete Isberg, ADP's vice president of government relations. Millions of workers have filed W-4 tax forms telling their employers how much in federal taxes they need to withhold. But that form will not be applicable under the new law, Isberg said.

"Therefore, every W-4 on file, all 164 million of them, won't be valid starting next month," he said. "We believe every working person is going to need a new W-4."

The IRS may have to design an entirely new W-4 form, which could take months, Isberg said. To complicate matters further, some states have separate W-4 forms that may also have to be changed, he said. "We need guidance as soon as possible," he said.

ADP has asked the IRS whether it can automatically convert old W-4 forms into new documents without requiring employees to fill out anything, but the company has not received a response. "We're looking at ways that we can simplify this for employers," he said..."

[userque]

I live in Illinois so this tax plan actually hurts me. But it was time to hurt Illinois as they have for 40 plus years screwed us with higher and higher property taxes. I currently pay $15,000 in property taxes on a 3200 sq. ft. $600,000 home. Its crazy.

Because you've been hurt by Illinois for 40 plus years, it's therefore about "time to hurt Illinois", i.e. YOU, some more?


______________
"Strange times are these in which we live ..."

[Danny]

I live in Illinois so this tax plan actually hurts me. But it was time to hurt Illinois as they have for 40 plus years screwed us with higher and higher property taxes. I currently pay $15,000 in property taxes on a 3200 sq. ft. $600,000 home. Its crazy.

That is crazy... just to show ya, (don’t believe the fake news) I’ve seen on MSNBC and local California networks, that this bill is bad for CA (all of it) our middle class will not benefit.
My 1600 sq. ft. House has a Tax bill of ~$1800. I also have a 1800 sq ft rental that is $2200, and a 2100 sq. ft. Rental that is $2400.

Based on all I have read I personally will pocket several thousand extra dollars on the new tax plan.


Danny

"edited by moderator to try and keep it politically neutral."
Sent from my iPhone using TSP Talk Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=74921)

[nasa1974]

That is crazy... just to show ya, (don’t believe the fake news) I’ve seen on MSNBC and local California networks, that this bill is bad for CA (all of it) our middle class will not benefit.
My 1600 sq. ft. House has a Tax bill of ~$1800. I also have a 1800 sq ft rental that is $2200, and a 2100 sq. ft. Rental that is $2400.

Based on all I have read I personally will pocket several thousand extra dollars on the new tax plan.


Danny

"edited by moderator to try and keep it politically neutral."
Sent from my iPhone using TSP Talk Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=74921)

Let's keep it politically neutral. Not everything is "Fake News". We won't know how it affects each person until all the smoke clears and 2018 taxes are due. This tax reform will affect each one of us different.

[nnuut]

Relocation is a good word.

[Danny]

Let's keep it politically neutral. Not everything is "Fake News". We won't know how it affects each person until all the smoke clears and 2018 taxes are due. This tax reform will affect each one of us different.

Exactly my point.

Danny


Sent from my iPhone using TSP Talk Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=74921)

[userque]

Relocation is a good word.

Solving problems rather than running away is better, imo. (Not to mention the many reasons relocation may not be a viable solution. Heck, I won't assume everyone knows this; I'll mention some reasons: Job, Family, Health, Money, School, Etc., and simply a desire to stay where one calls home...and work to fix what needs fixing...rather than abandon that home.)

[nnuut]

State taxes that are way out of line can be fixed that's up to the people living in those states.

[RazorCat]

I would think you have to ask yourself if you benefit from high property taxes, both locally and statewide. Are streets, schools, services, and other items that are funded by what I would consider "extremely" high property taxes as good as they should be? That would be the litmus test for me personally. I pay fairly low property taxes in both Texarkana and Hot Springs. Hot Springs is a resort town and lakeside community that is well funded by taxes, tourist trade and racetrack fans. Good streets, schools, and top notch services.
By comparison, my home town lags in some areas, mostly street conditions and average schools, but not by much. And you can always pay tuition and send your kids across town to Texas schools which are rated as some of the best in the state. So, you have choices where I live. And we're 3 hours from Dallas, and 2 hours from Little Rock from Texarkana if we can't find what we want or need. 30 minutes to LR from Hot Springs. The caveat is, just about anywhere I move will have an overall higher cost of living. That's one reason my wife and I haven't relocated to Georgia to be closer to my son and his family (and the fact the bass fishing is limited at best).
Point being, does where you reside offer bang for the buck for your family? If not, move, or stay put and work to change the tax structure. Good luck. It won't be easy. Hard to take money away from politicians who make those decisions.
Maybe the reduction in deductible state and property taxes will spur those changes in higher cost of living states. I sincerely hope it does.

[Jackbnimble]

I pay fairly low property taxes in both Texarkana and Hot Springs.


Off topic, but have you ever heard of the Faulk Monster(sp)? What do you think about it?

[nnuut]

Fouke!

[Jackbnimble]

When I was a kid I deer hunted in south Arkansas. After watching a show about the Fouke monster, I hated going in the woods in the dark.

[tsptalk]

I knew this tax bill thread would turn into a monster. :D

[StockSurfer]

I would think you have to ask yourself if you benefit from high property taxes, both locally and statewide. Are streets, schools, services, and other items that are funded by what I would consider "extremely" high property taxes as good as they should be? That would be the litmus test for me personally. I pay fairly low property taxes in both Texarkana and Hot Springs. Hot Springs is a resort town and lakeside community that is well funded by taxes, tourist trade and racetrack fans. Good streets, schools, and top notch services.
By comparison, my home town lags in some areas, mostly street conditions and average schools, but not by much. And you can always pay tuition and send your kids across town to Texas schools which are rated as some of the best in the state. So, you have choices where I live. And we're 3 hours from Dallas, and 2 hours from Little Rock from Texarkana if we can't find what we want or need. 30 minutes to LR from Hot Springs. The caveat is, just about anywhere I move will have an overall higher cost of living. That's one reason my wife and I haven't relocated to Georgia to be closer to my son and his family (and the fact the bass fishing is limited at best).
Point being, does where you reside offer bang for the buck for your family? If not, move, or stay put and work to change the tax structure. Good luck. It won't be easy. Hard to take money away from politicians who make those decisions.
Maybe the reduction in deductible state and property taxes will spur those changes in higher cost of living states. I sincerely hope it does.

You espouse a position that people in high tax states should either move away from those states or force their representatives to lower state and local taxes (which is a political position).You don’t delve in depth into the things that those state and local taxes pay for in those areas, like public schools, public safety and health services, repairing crumbling roads and infrastructure in places like Los Angeles and New York, etc. , and what the consequences would be for a major loss of revenue in those areas. So people should just move away and let major metropolitan areas crumble?


Lets get back on point. As an example of how many folks in other states are not benefiting from the tax change, in some areas in CA property taxes on a modest three bedroom townhouse can come close to the $10,000 cap in and of itself. (In NY , NJ property taxes can be much higher than that) If one has hit the $10,000 cap, they can’t deduct state income tax which comes out to thousands that they used to be able to deduct... Then, on top of that, they don’t get the personal exemption... These aren’t rich folks that are being hurt, they are just middle class folks , including federal workers, just like you... . You do not mention that most of the deductions for corporations and upper income people are staying, while these deductions used by folks just like you living in these states are being taken away... . Why is it that these specific deductions have been taken away?


But for a moment let’s think beyond “will I get a tax cut” and “how will this affect my tax bill”. And beyond the issue of whether deductions for SALT are right or wrong... Aren’t any of you thinking about what the pressure will be on Medicare, Social Security AND Federal Government programs and federal benefits if the deficit significantly expands (as just about every economist says it will in spite of the rosiest growth predictions?)... That’s simply mathematics...

[evilanne]

I live in Illinois so this tax plan actually hurts me. But it was time to hurt Illinois as they have for 40 plus years screwed us with higher and higher property taxes. I currently pay $15,000 in property taxes on a 3200 sq. ft. $600,000 home. Its crazy.Sounds like the time to move. In my neck of the woods, you can get a 3200 SF home here for about $350K and property taxes would be about 9K. If you bought a $600K house the property taxes would only be slightly less.

[PessOptimist]

$600,000 home? $400,000 home? 32000 SF? Never imagined anyone paying that for such a mini macmansion. So solve the problem somehow or move. I just am hanging around poor people. The most houseful outside CA is about $250k. Me? About 150k. Obviously living in poverty. Good luck to all of you.

PO

[Warrenlm]

Trump signs GOP tax plan and short-term government funding bill on his way out of town
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/22/trump-signs-gop-tax-plan-short-term-government-funding-bill.htmlWill the IRS department in charge of publishing withholding tables encounter a technical reason that delays publishing new ones?

[evilanne]

Trump signs GOP tax plan and short-term government funding bill on his way out of town
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/22/trump-signs-gop-tax-plan-short-term-government-funding-bill.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/22/trump-signs-gop-tax-plan-short-term-government-funding-bill.html)

Will the IRS department in charge of publishing withholding tables encounter a technical reason that delays publishing new ones?
They should already be working on it & they have an extra week to figure it out. There shouldn't be any reason it shouldn't be done the first week of 2018 but nothing would surprise me. Apparently they were able to do it the same day as legislation was done back in 2013 https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-provides-updated-withholding-guidance-for-2013

[RazorCat]

Off topic, but have you ever heard of the Faulk Monster(sp)? What do you think about it?
Yeah, the Fouke monster. Used to hunt and fish around Mercer’s Bayou and the Sulphur River. Never saw it, but knew a few folks that would swear it existed. Including one man, an old river boat captain, that lived alone on Mercer’s Bayou.

[Scout333]

Additional standard deductions for seniors 65 and older was added back to the new tax bill. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes/the-gop-tax-overhaul-kept-this-dollar1300-break-for-seniors/ar-BBHa4wv?li=BBnbfcN

[nnuut]

Additional standard deductions for seniors 65 and older was added back to the new tax bill. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes/the-gop-tax-overhaul-kept-this-dollar1300-break-for-seniors/ar-BBHa4wv?li=BBnbfcN
Every little bit helps.:banana:

[nasa1974]

Additional standard deductions for seniors 65 and older was added back to the new tax bill. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes/the-gop-tax-overhaul-kept-this-dollar1300-break-for-seniors/ar-BBHa4wv?li=BBnbfcN

Hope that doesn't mean they will mess with our Medicare.

[Frixxxx]

The only place I see less deductions for me is in SPALT. I cap immediately on my State tax.

[nnuut]

Hope that doesn't mean they will mess with our Medicare.

NOPE!:cool:

[nasa1974]

This is part of an article that was in todays local paper "The Cleveland Plain Dealer"

"...Goldman's research follows on the heels of a Morgan Stanley report last week that looked at what 556 companies are likely to do with their tax savings. The survey found 43 percent intend to fatten dividends and share buybacks. The next most popular use of the tax money is likely to be mergers (19 percent said this). Only 17 percent anticipate more capital spending and only 13 percent think higher wages are likely. A Bank of America survey in August of over 300 companies found similarly pessimistic expectations for how the tax savings would likely be used..."

Not sure how the tax plan really helps folks like us other than maybe making a little more money for our TSP's

[RazorCat]

I believe most Americans are less worried about what companies do with there tax savings than how the tax cuts affect there personal bottom line when they get their paycheck. I know my check was noticeably more since the new tax cuts took affect.
I certainly hope corporations use realized tax savings to boost employee pay were warranted. But, I'll take an increase to my paycheck any day simply from a tax cut, and smile all the way to the bank.

[nasa1974]

From what I can tell the tax cut is going to save me $128.84 a month. Not bad. How that relates to tax time for 2018 I guess I will have to wait.

But to be honest I would have no problem not getting an extra $1546 for 2018 and have Congress do the right thing and start reducing the $20T debt and not add another $1-2T this year to our debt.

[RazorCat]

I agree wholeheartedly nasa1974.
A balanced budget amendment is long overdue, as well as, term limits. It’s a proven fact we can’t trust our elected officials to act in a fiscally responsible manner. This a problem on both sides of the aisle, and has been for decades.
They’re going to have to be forced to stop spending money they don’t have.

[nasa1974]

So the government has tossed us a small bone disguised as a tax break. Now they are talking about raising the gasoline tax 25 cents a gallon. So they will slowly nickel and dime us to death to cover the tax break and eventually take more away from us but praise themselves for giving us the tax break. :banghead:

Trump backs 25-cent-a-gallon gasoline tax hike: senator (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-backs-25-cent-a-gallon-gasoline-tax-hike-senator/ar-BBJ8Z4v?li=BBnb7Kz)

The article also says that the current gasoline tax is 18.4 cents/gallon and hasn't been increased since 1993.