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law87
01-11-2014, 12:43 AM
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone in here in the real estate business that would be able to help me out. I own a home in maryland for a good 3-4 years now and I always wanted to know the value of the home. I try to do some Googling and Zillowing but it always come up with questionable values. is there any other way to figure out the value of my home?


Another question, I currently have a 15 year mortgage @ a rate of 2.15% (at the time I thought it was a good idea especially with that rate), it is currently being rented out, however the rent does not cover the mortgage, I actually have to pay an extra $600 each month. Some of my co-workers thought that was a not so smart move from a real estate investing standpoint. Do you guys have any advice? Thanks in advance!


P.S I am not living in Maryland, So I cannot get the home appraise.

Warrenlm
01-11-2014, 06:54 AM
Ref approximating a realistic sales value/what an appraiser might present as value, for purposes of one's own knowledge. The assessed value is probably low if the neighborhood is competitive, but county sites often contain details of the structure. Zillow's number is just a number. Use Zillow or other similar info to identify actual sales in the last year within the competitive area. Use aerial photos or google street or other sources if you can to confirm the candidates you want to consider are similar to yours in appearance. Use online county assessment records to determine features that might warrant an appraiser's adjustment up or down (busy street, garage, bigger lot, more bedrooms, more baths, higher finished area). Simulate what an appraiser does albeit without the data he/she has access to. But, nothing's exact. He's not bidding and neither are you. :)

Negative cash flow has to be balanced against the after tax actual effects.

burrocrat
01-11-2014, 07:28 AM
if you own it, why can't you have it appraised? if you own it, you could paint it pink turn it upside down and put it on stilts, right? this is america and you have freedoms. there is something else going on with this place, unable to appraise and unwilling to appraise are two different things.

you have 3 basic options depending on what is motivating you to determine value of the property:

1. short-term investment: keep paying the extra $600 per month and in 10 years you own it outright. you obviously are not starving if you can afford the internet, and after payoff whatever is left over minus taxes, insurance, and maintenance is yours to keep (see how the financial ticks suck blood there?).

2. long-term investment: refinance it, shop it around to a few banks looking for a 30 year note that positive cash flows. you will almost immediately get an idea of what it's worth because a banker won't touch it at less than desirable loan to value price. market discovery is what that is called, every good banker can do it off the cuff or else they go broke. pretend the home is a dividend paying stock.

3. kick your ex-girlfriend and her same sex 'college roommate' meth cook high priced whore out and start charging market rates on the lease, don't be such a softy.

caution: all of your options include the services of a lawyer so you know up front somebody is going to get screwed. don't let it be you.

law87
01-11-2014, 12:57 PM
Thank you both for the replies. Its not that I cant get it appraise, its just me being cheap and wanting to do it for free. Since selling is not an option for me, i rather not pay for the service

Warrelm, thanks for that. I almost forgot the county does do appraisal.

Burrocrat, i understand those options are available. From a investing perspective, is it the right move to finance at 15 years instead of long term (30years)and collect a measly small returns.

Frixxxx
01-11-2014, 02:02 PM
Thank you both for the replies. Its not that I cant get it appraise, its just me being cheap and wanting to do it for free. Since selling is not an option for me, i rather not pay for the service

Warrelm, thanks for that. I almost forgot the county does do appraisal.

Burrocrat, i understand those options are available. From a investing perspective, is it the right move to finance at 15 years instead of long term (30years)and collect a measly small returns.
I recommend the 15 year as you pay more against principal and less to the bank.

burrocrat
01-11-2014, 03:19 PM
From a investing perspective, is it the right move to finance at 15 years instead of long term (30years)and collect a measly small returns.

your question can only be answered by you. if by measly returns after refinancing you mean anything above break even, then by your earlier description you would net a minimum +600/month off the top vs. current arrangement. (cash flow)

if you like holding the asset because you feel your cap needs more feathers in it, then keep the -600/month deficit arrangement you have now. (balance sheet).

if real estate diversification in your portfolio is the goal, have you considered selling the place and putting the proceeds in a low cost reit fund? that way you don't have to shampoo carpets or replace frozen pipes yourself.

i still want to know who you are renting to at a loss and why, that sounds like a juicy story. maybe you could shut the place down for a month-long remodel and have the contractor install hidden security cams in all the vents. one well-placed youtube sex tape can be more profitable than hitting the lotto.

personally, i would sell it and put the money down on one of those deisel rock star party buses and cruise around making my own youtube videos. like girls gone wild except for with baby boomers. livin the dream.

it all depends on what you value. let us know what you decide, and ps... i love driving and know my way around a camera, call me.

Scout333
01-11-2014, 06:58 PM
if you own it, why can't you have it appraised? if you own it, you could paint it pink turn it upside down and put it on stilts, right? this is america and you have freedoms. there is something else going on with this place, unable to appraise and unwilling to appraise are two different things.

What did it appraise for when you bought it and/or refinanced it to get the 15 year mortgage?

law87
01-11-2014, 10:12 PM
your question can only be answered by you. if by measly returns after refinancing you mean anything above break even, then by your earlier description you would net a minimum +600/month off the top vs. current arrangement. (cash flow)

if you like holding the asset because you feel your cap needs more feathers in it, then keep the -600/month deficit arrangement you have now. (balance sheet).

if real estate diversification in your portfolio is the goal, have you considered selling the place and putting the proceeds in a low cost reit fund? that way you don't have to shampoo carpets or replace frozen pipes yourself.

i still want to know who you are renting to at a loss and why, that sounds like a juicy story. maybe you could shut the place down for a month-long remodel and have the contractor install hidden security cams in all the vents. one well-placed youtube sex tape can be more profitable than hitting the lotto.

personally, i would sell it and put the money down on one of those deisel rock star party buses and cruise around making my own youtube videos. like girls gone wild except for with baby boomers. livin the dream.

it all depends on what you value. let us know what you decide, and ps... i love driving and know my way around a camera, call me.


the house is loan to my previous roomate, she is a nurse and she ask me if I can rent it to her for a good aka low price, of course my dumb ass give her a price that was 150-200 below market value. I also had wells Fargo manage my place (property management) they take a commision of 10% which I think is a ripped off but they been doing a pretty good job so I guess I cant complain too much.

her 1 year lease is up in July, thank god.

law87
01-11-2014, 10:13 PM
if you own it, why can't you have it appraised? if you own it, you could paint it pink turn it upside down and put it on stilts, right? this is america and you have freedoms. there is something else going on with this place, unable to appraise and unwilling to appraise are two different things.

What did it appraise for when you bought it and/or refinanced it to get the 15 year mortgage?

I really cant remember. Like I said I know I can get someone to appraise it but I was hoping there is a free online service.

burrocrat
01-11-2014, 10:35 PM
the house is loan to my previous roomate, she is a nurse and she ask me if I can rent it to her for a good aka low price, of course my dumb ass give her a price that was 150-200 below market value. I also had wells Fargo manage my place (property management) they take a commision of 10% which I think is a ripped off but they been doing a pretty good job so I guess I cant complain too much.

her 1 year lease is up in July, thank god.

a nurse, huh? have you tried getting her to play doctor? that has an incalculable value all its own. if i was you i would just walk in the front door by surprise one day and fake a heart attack right on the kitchen floor.

either you will get some free cpr, or else at most a half hour will cost you one hundred bucks.

burrocrat
01-11-2014, 11:38 PM
omg, i just figured out law87's appraisal problem. the nurse is a cat lady. sure, she only had one when they used to live together, but now she has more p***ies than an under staffed obgyn office's waiting room.

there's no way to kick her out without ticking off peta and the rainbow coalition. since it's your house, i recommend just moving back in. and getting a dog. a big dog. a hungry dog.

and make sure the cameras in the vents are rolling, this should be a good one.

law87
01-12-2014, 12:12 AM
omg, i just figured out law87's appraisal problem. the nurse is a cat lady. sure, she only had one when they used to live together, but now she has more p***ies than an under staffed obgyn office's waiting room.

there's no way to kick her out without ticking off peta and the rainbow coalition. since it's your house, i recommend just moving back in. and getting a dog. a big dog. a hungry dog.

and make sure the cameras in the vents are rolling, this should be a good one.


ahah its not like what you think at all. Shes from Cameroon, have 2-3 kids and her occupation is nursing that is the reason why I want to help her out by lowering the rent. When we live together she was always on time with rent but now she is constantly late, I cant wait for July till her contract is over.

I cant move back because I am now station in Hawaii, my house is in Maryland. the house is being manage by wells fargo property management.

burrocrat
01-12-2014, 08:08 AM
it's never a good sign when your roommate is late this month, now you got to go counting backwards on the 28 day calendar and moon and stuff, should've just kept it zipped.

oh well, they make good cookies in cameroon i hear. with 2-3 kids you knew she was fertile, what where you thinking?

law87 is gonna be a dad.

burrocrat
01-12-2014, 08:21 AM
you may as well just sign over the house to her right now. try to get her to sign an agreement about no claims on your tsp or future earnings, and have a notary witness that you didn't coerce her. buy the kid a winter coat and boots every year, memorize the shoe size, judges eat it up when you know the love child's shoe size and can show reciepts.

get out as fast as you can. that is a dangerous road you're on.

burrocrat
01-12-2014, 08:50 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqra4YSsaM

hood slidin' like bo duke... i knew there'd be hell to pay, but that crossed my mind a little too late.

you're in a mess of trouble with that real estate deal dude. sell it. cut your losses and run.

burrocrat
01-12-2014, 10:56 AM
this is a drop everything kind of thing, i have experience in that business, you need to run son, now. you are going to get screwed on this deal. make heel dust. you don't have to call me.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1WEpLzsdEeY

DreamboatAnnie
01-12-2014, 11:02 AM
Ooopps..disregard

DreamboatAnnie
01-12-2014, 11:06 AM
Hi Law87,
Congratulations on the baby!! Just kiddin...
As you know, Burro is very talented in special ways and can always be counted on to correlate every topic to sex or scandal! :toung: It is his goal since childhood to put one in the oven, so it all goes back to that.:rolleyes:

Sadly, I did not know where Cameroon was. It's very nice of you to help her...but bottom line...you can't support her (without worthwhile compensation) when it's cutting into your livelihood. So as there is no relation now, you need to let the management company take action to evict. If she is a nurse (RN) she should be making enough money to care for self and kids. RNs get paid well. If she is an LVN, she needs to move into an inexpensive apartment. Tell management company to release her from lease as she is not making full payments and is now in breach of contract, and sell the house.

As for appraisal, the real estate management company should be able to give you a good informal estimate soo you can figure out how much you'll make on sale. I would not refinance.

DreamboatAnnie
01-12-2014, 12:31 PM
Hi Law87,
Congratulations on the baby!! Just kiddin...
As you know, Burro is very talented in special ways and can always be counted on to correlate every topic to sex or scandal! :toung: It is his goal since childhood to put one in the oven, so it all goes back to that.:rolleyes:

Sadly, I did not know where Cameroon was. It's very nice of you to help her...but bottom line...you can't support her (without worthwhile compensation) when it's cutting into your livelihood. So as there is no relation now, you need to let the management company take action to evict. If she is a nurse (RN) she should be making enough money to care for self and kids. RNs get paid well. If she is an LVN, she needs to move into an inexpensive apartment. Tell management company to release her from lease as she is not making full payments and is now in breach of contract, and sell the house.

As for appraisal, the real estate management company should be able to give you a good informal estimate soo you can figure out how much you'll make on sale. I would not refinance.
But one more thing...you may need to check with management company to make sure there is nothing in your contract with them that would require you to pay fees to them until July if you want to release her from lease. They might not release you.

In any case, I can understand this is a tough position for you and her. In the end, it depends on what you can afford and how much you can give considering that your original intention was meant to help her. Again that is very kind and charitable but you do need to stay afloat yourself. And give yourself a pat on the back for what you have done so far for her and her kids.

burrocrat
01-12-2014, 12:39 PM
It is his goal since childhood to put one in the oven, so it all goes back to that.

hey now, i was breast fed as a baby, it's been a struggle to get home ever since. but i'm not complaining.

law87
01-12-2014, 03:05 PM
Hi Law87,
Congratulations on the baby!! Just kiddin...
As you know, Burro is very talented in special ways and can always be counted on to correlate every topic to sex or scandal! :toung: It is his goal since childhood to put one in the oven, so it all goes back to that.:rolleyes:

Sadly, I did not know where Cameroon was. It's very nice of you to help her...but bottom line...you can't support her (without worthwhile compensation) when it's cutting into your livelihood. So as there is no relation now, you need to let the management company take action to evict. If she is a nurse (RN) she should be making enough money to care for self and kids. RNs get paid well. If she is an LVN, she needs to move into an inexpensive apartment. Tell management company to release her from lease as she is not making full payments and is now in breach of contract, and sell the house.

As for appraisal, the real estate management company should be able to give you a good informal estimate soo you can figure out how much you'll make on sale. I would not refinance.


I'm afraid its not that simple. Maryland Law dictate that the renter have 3 strikes. Basically my property manager have to go to court 3 times filing for unpaid payment, well she been late for every month. Every time we set to go to court, she would pay right as we file (it takes a week for court date, another week for them to send out the notices) she currently have 1 strike on her.

I want to be a nice guy, greed is not in my interest as I believe karma will F*** you over in the long run. I'm OK with the amount she pay because I know she has a big family to feed but she NEVER does it on time.

RealMoneyIssues
01-12-2014, 03:12 PM
I'm afraid its not that simple. Maryland Law dictate that the renter have 3 strikes. Basically my property manager have to go to court 3 times filing for unpaid payment, well she been late for every month. Every time we set to go to court, she would pay right as we file (it takes a week for court date, another week for them to send out the notices) she currently have 1 strike on her.

I want to be a nice guy, greed is not in my interest as I believe karma will F*** you over in the long run. I'm OK with the amount she pay because I know she has a big family to feed but she NEVER does it on time.

Another good reason to not rent property in the Socialist Republic of Maryland. I am not sure why past late payments are made good when she pays one time on time... Sounds like you are getting screwed by Wells Fargo (like many of us have over the decades).

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Something that makes military life more difficult, you can't take of stuff like this personally.

Good luck!!

law87
01-12-2014, 09:25 PM
Another good reason to not rent property in the Socialist Republic of Maryland. I am not sure why past late payments are made good when she pays one time on time... Sounds like you are getting screwed by Wells Fargo (like many of us have over the decades).

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Something that makes military life more difficult, you can't take of stuff like this personally.

Good luck!!

actually Wells Fargo is pretty good, I was reccomended by an Army chief warrant officer. He has 13 houses and he say they are all manage by Wells Fargo. The 10% fee is pretty average from what I been researching and the guy that manage my place is good with keeping in contact and knowing what to do.

Yea I was in deep trouble in October, Hawaii commands are really messed up about reimbursement and filing for BAH. I was paying for Rent, mortgage and 2 car payments with just my E-5 pay, no BAH. I was going out of my mind.

GUCHI
01-13-2014, 08:45 AM
law87
sounds like your gonna give your current renter the boot when lease agreement is up? i also have a couple rentals and found that a good rentee is a must. i had a rentee who had a couple break-ins and wanted a security system installed at my exspense. i was willing to split it with her , but she did not want to split and was willing to move out. i decided to get and pay it all since the yearly monitoring fee of $450 was less than half a months mortgage. i had adt install and she is there still 3 months later. that issue made her feel safe and sound and that matters to both of us. but when i get a new tenant the security will be included in the monthly. just wanted to warn you to look at the big picture. i did not want to loose a goood tenant and possibly have to pay a month or two mortgage payment just to find a good new tenant. FYI i also kick in a little extra to cover the mortgage but will also up the rent when i do have to get another tenant. i dont want to scare her off.


ahah its not like what you think at all. Shes from Cameroon, have 2-3 kids and her occupation is nursing that is the reason why I want to help her out by lowering the rent. When we live together she was always on time with rent but now she is constantly late, I cant wait for July till her contract is over.

I cant move back because I am now station in Hawaii, my house is in Maryland. the house is being manage by wells fargo property management.

LTInvestor
10-27-2022, 09:09 AM
Hi Law87, you can always talk to a broker, and say you're considering your options to sell. They'll give you an opinion of value for free and it will be closer to fair value than an appraisal (though likely an optimistic value, whereas an appraisal is usually the pessimistic valuation). You're property value has probably increased a lot in the interim, so that's great.

Generally you don't want negative cash flow in your rental assets, because it's tougher to fund the big repairs. Once rates are lower, I'd recommend switching to a longer term mortgage, say 30 years instead of 15, or using the higher value to swap the property into a duplex or triplex with higher cash flow.

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