How does interfund re-distribute? [Archive]

Mike

07-26-2005, 03:21 AM

UofM_Matt wrote:
Question: Say I have 30% C 40% S and 30% I, then I submit an interfund transfer to become 42% C, 42% S and 16% I. How does it get rebalanced? Does TSP liquidate what I have and rebuy, or sell enough of one or the other to make up what it needs?

- Matt

BTW, this site ROCKS! I just found it and am very glad.

TSP does not liquidate all your fund holdings to rebuy at the new prices and achieve the new percentage. Instead, it simply sells shares in the fund that you are cutting your allocation to and buying shares in the other fund(s)in whichyou are increasing your allocation. In this particular case, you would be selling nearly 1/2 of your I fund holdings to add a little to S and a considerable amount to C.

tsptalk

07-26-2005, 09:44 AM

Thanks for joining us Matt!

Mike -
Where did you find that info? On the tsp.gov site?

Thanks,
Tom

Mike

07-27-2005, 04:11 AM

I didn't have to look for it - I've known this is true based on past participant statements. Any interfund transfer will show up and you'll see a minus sign in front of however many shares you sold in each fund, and you'll see another transaction in whichever fund(s) that shares were bought. The dollar amount bought will cancel out the amount sold, of course.

jwlane

07-27-2005, 04:21 PM

UofM_Matt wrote:
Does TSP liquidate what I have and rebuy

Does it matter? Could they have implemented a system that could be more unwieldy?

That's the problem with using a % based accounting system, rather than share based. Anyone out there ever call you IRA custodian and tell them to "reallocate" your holdings into funds based on percentages? No, you tell them to sell X shares or X dollars worth and purchase the new funds.

Mike

08-03-2005, 02:12 AM

I don't call anyone - I just handle it all online. :P

KAPLOWD

12-08-2005, 11:12 AM

How did they decide on the noon deadline for IFT's ?

tsptalk

12-08-2005, 01:16 PM

It's been that way since the beginning. I don't remember hearing why.

KAPLOWD

12-08-2005, 01:28 PM

I didn't hear anything either.Would think that it could be latter then noon, with electronic transactions. What about the folks in Hawaii, they have to wakeup at 5am to make an IFT.

There doesn't seem to be any way to make suggestions to the governing board. They created these L#### funds, but nobody asked the participants what they might want, such as a fund which might short the market.

Wolverine

01-24-2007, 07:03 PM

I think this is where I want to ask this question, so I can clear this up in my brain.

I have never done the IFT stuff. I have been G 15% F 15% C 70% the entire time I have been in the TSP. Before I start this IFT stuff I need to understand my question here.

Lets say as an example here, that I take everything out of the F and C and put it in the G. I have a current balance already and a current ammount of shares.

With the total of shares I have already between the F and C, would these shares now increase in order to keep the current balance I had before I put them into the G?

What I am asking here is, will the balance in my account before IFT to G correct and still be the same balance after the IFT? Or will it show that I have less of a balance now, since the G share prices are lower than the C share prices? Will my total shares go up?

Hope I did not confuse. But I need to get it straight to make sure I am seeing things properly.

Thanks for any help.

Buckeye

01-24-2007, 08:29 PM

Wolverine

01-25-2007, 11:34 AM

For the sake of simplicity, lets say your account balance is $1,000.00. We will use the current fund prices so you can get an accurate grasp at this.

G Fund - 15% allocation @ $11.75 = 12.7659 shares ($150.00)

F Fund - 15% allocation @ $11.14 = 13.4649 shares ($150.00)

C Fund - 70% allocation @ $15.95 = 43.8871 shares ($700.00)

Now lets say that you requested an IFT before noon today. You would sell all F and C shares at today's cob prices, and buy G at today's cob price. Your account balance would be:

G Fund - 100% allocation @ 15.95 = 62.6959 shares ($1,000.00)

Hope this helps you.

Ok got one thing straight, that the total balance going into a different fund stays the same, correct? That is until any changes during the markets for that day? Of course then this works the same going the other way into a fund with higher share prices, correct?

But, not clear on some other things here yet.

Between the 3 funds here you have a total of 70.1179 shares to begin with. At the final tally in the G fund you now show 62.6959 shares. Would you not have more shares now, since the G fund share price is lower cost?

Now you are showing the G fund share prices @ 15.95 which is where it bends my brain cells a bit. lol How is this? That price was the C fund share price.

Also, what is this COB and all?

Just a couple things to clear up is all and I will have it down.

Yes this helps.

Thank you

Buckeye

01-25-2007, 09:16 PM

Ok got one thing straight, that the total balance going into a different fund stays the same, correct? That is until any changes during the markets for that day? Of course then this works the same going the other way into a fund with higher share prices, correct?

But, not clear on some other things here yet.

Between the 3 funds here you have a total of 70.1179 shares to begin with. At the final tally in the G fund you now show 62.6959 shares. Would you not have more shares now, since the G fund share price is lower cost?

Now you are showing the G fund share prices @ 15.95 which is where it bends my brain cells a bit. lol How is this? That price was the C fund share price.

Also, what is this COB and all?

Just a couple things to clear up is all and I will have it down.

Yes this helps.

Thank you

Wolverine,

Sorry for confusing you even more. These 12-14 hr shifts are starting to catch up to me. The correct account balance would be:

G Fund - 100% allocation @ $11.75 = 85.1063 shares ($1,000.00)

Sorry again about the bad info. Also, COB is close of business. COB fund prices are found by going to tsp.gov and clicking on share prices located halfway down on the right side. The share prices are usually posted before/at 8:00 pm Eastern.

Wolverine

01-26-2007, 06:03 PM

Wolverine,

Sorry for confusing you even more. These 12-14 hr shifts are starting to catch up to me. The correct account balance would be:

G Fund - 100% allocation @ $11.75 = 85.1063 shares ($1,000.00)

Sorry again about the bad info. Also, COB is close of business. COB fund prices are found by going to tsp.gov and clicking on share prices located halfway down on the right side. The share prices are usually posted before/at 8:00 pm Eastern.

Buckeye,

No problem, been there done that with working those kinds of hours and then some. Gets old.

At least my brain cells were working and I did see it properly. lol

Your help with this matter has got me straightened out with this issue now, I do believe.

While I am here though, another couple questions if you don't mind.

1....When doing the IFT, is there a better time over any other time to make the IFT? Meaning, from COB until noon the next day, is there any period within that time frame that is better or worse to make this move?

2....Also when doing an IFT, how fast or slow is the confirmation? Can I get it all done within 30 minutes as an example? I see many here that do their IFT within about two hrs of noon. For me I would have to do it earlier because of my schedule and all.

3....Other than the S&P chart, where are there charts that correspond to the G,F,S and I funds? Where can I find these in order to follow these funds better in this manner?

Just a few more loose ends with some of this to get me straight with all this.

I do appreciate your help. This is an incredible site with so much info to digest and all the people who give it so freely.

Thank you again.

Buckeye

01-26-2007, 08:20 PM

1....When doing the IFT, is there a better time over any other time to make the IFT? Meaning, from COB until noon the next day, is there any period within that time frame that is better or worse to make this move?

That is completely determined by you. Most prefer to wait until that last half hour before performing their IFT. These members take in all the market info and related world events that they can before making their decision. Others are comfortable requesting their IFT the day before it will take effect. Get the information you need to make the IFTs you are comfortable with, and then execute before noon.

2....Also when doing an IFT, how fast or slow is the confirmation? Can I get it all done within 30 minutes as an example? I see many here that do their IFT within about two hrs of noon. For me I would have to do it earlier because of my schedule and all.

You can do an IFT within a minute(depending on your typing skills). I normally will not wait past 11:55, just in case the tsp server is experiencing heavy volume. The conformation is almost instant. After you submit your IFT, you will see a confirmation message. You will also recieve an email where all the details are spelled out.

3....Other than the S&P chart, where are there charts that correspond to the G,F,S and I funds? Where can I find these in order to follow these funds better in this manner?

Again, different members are comfortable with different info. Not trying to shrug you off, but the "regulars" who post in the market talk threads could answer this question better than I.

I do appreciate your help. This is an incredible site with so much info to digest and all the people who give it so freely.

Not a problem. We all start somewhere, and this is how we all learn. Take your time and settle in.... and welcome aboard.

tsptalk

01-27-2007, 11:06 AM

3....Other than the S&P chart, where are there charts that correspond to the G,F,S and I funds? Where can I find these in order to follow these funds better in this manner?
I follow these indices/ ETF's. They are in C, S, I, F fund order...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^gspc,^dwcpf,EFA,agg&d=t

Wolverine

01-27-2007, 09:01 PM

That is completely determined by you. Most prefer to wait until that last half hour before performing their IFT. These members take in all the market info and related world events that they can before making their decision. Others are comfortable requesting their IFT the day before it will take effect. Get the information you need to make the IFTs you are comfortable with, and then execute before noon.

You can do an IFT within a minute(depending on your typing skills). I normally will not wait past 11:55, just in case the tsp server is experiencing heavy volume. The conformation is almost instant. After you submit your IFT, you will see a confirmation message. You will also recieve an email where all the details are spelled out.

Again, different members are comfortable with different info. Not trying to shrug you off, but the "regulars" who post in the market talk threads could answer this question better than I.

Not a problem. We all start somewhere, and this is how we all learn. Take your time and settle in.... and welcome aboard.

Ok, thanks much for all your help.

Wolverine

01-27-2007, 09:05 PM

I follow these indices/ ETF's. They are in C, S, I, F fund order...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^gspc,^dwcpf,EFA,agg&d=t

Ok, thanks, I will take a look see.

mailmanusa

01-28-2007, 05:36 AM

If given a chance, Im sure all of us would vote for a later IFT deadline. Thats a no brainer. Good question though, why not later?

SkyPilot

01-28-2007, 07:37 AM

They are already working their abacus as fast as they can now... they need all the lead time they can get! Lowest bidder gets the contract.

If given a chance, Im sure all of us would vote for a later IFT deadline. Thats a no brainer. Good question though, why not later?

Wolverine

01-28-2007, 11:16 AM

They are already working their abacus as fast as they can now... they need all the lead time they can get! Lowest bidder gets the contract.

My concern wasn't the 12 noon deadline.

It is that I work full time yet and from the time I get to work until noon I do not have the time to do any further research.

If I was retired it would be different.

I need to know what I am going to do for an IFT before I go to work in the morning and be done with it.

I would like the luxury of being home/retired now but not yet.

The way this is set up though is that you have to be looking further ahead than just the day you are doing the IFT.

If you could do an IFT on a Monday and have it be in effect for a Monday, that would be good also.

Anyhoo, I will be doing any IFT before 6:30am and if that isn't good enough for what I see than so be it.

SkyPilot

01-28-2007, 11:39 AM

Some of us have monkeys and a dart board. We can turn the monkeys loose the night before, collect the results and make the IFT well ahead of the deadline. :D :nuts: :cheesy: :blink:

My concern wasn't the 12 noon deadline.

It is that I work full time yet and from the time I get to work until noon I do not have the time to do any further research.

If I was retired it would be different.

I need to know what I am going to do for an IFT before I go to work in the morning and be done with it.

I would like the luxury of being home/retired now but not yet.

The way this is set up though is that you have to be looking further ahead than just the day you are doing the IFT.

If you could do an IFT on a Monday and have it be in effect for a Monday, that would be good also.

Anyhoo, I will be doing any IFT before 6:30am and if that isn't good enough for what I see than so be it.

Wolverine

01-28-2007, 03:57 PM

I follow these indices/ ETF's. They are in C, S, I, F fund order...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^gspc,^dwcpf,EFA,agg&d=t

Ok, I took a look see at these.

What does ETF stand for?

You have to click on the chart itself to get a bigger one so I see also.

So, these are in decending order tracking the C,S,I,F then?

Just by chance are you aware of any better charts that can be bigger yet anywhere out there that covers these particular funds of ours? I guess also what I mean is, what exact symbol corresponding to each of these funds could you put into a stock site and maybe get bigger better charts?

Too bad the TSP site could not add some good charts to their site for us to use along with everything else there.

Thank you for you help with this.

Wolverine

01-28-2007, 04:18 PM

Some of us have monkeys and a dart board. We can turn the monkeys loose the night before, collect the results and make the IFT well ahead of the deadline. :D :nuts: :cheesy: :blink:

I need a new dart board and maybe some more monkeys to make this work better possibly. lol

Some can over analyze things and that is not for me. Analyze, research and prepare, yes, I will do that and make my decision and go with it and learn from it. Whatever happens then will happen. Live and learn and go on the next day and start again.

Now that I am at this incredible site, I do not want to make the mistakes I have in the past with the TSP. I will do what it takes to prevent those kinds of things happening again. My mistake in the past with the TSP was never monitoring it properly in order to prevent big losses like it did a few years back now. This is what I hope to correct by being a part of this site.

Thanks To All

Show-me

01-28-2007, 04:26 PM

ETF = Exchange Traded Fund

A fund that trades like a stock.

Show-me

01-28-2007, 04:28 PM

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SPX&p=D&yr=0&mn=6&dy=0&id=p51972347693

Use $SPX for C fund, $EMW for S fund, EFA for I fund, and AGG for F fund.

Wolverine

01-28-2007, 05:20 PM

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SPX&p=D&yr=0&mn=6&dy=0&id=p51972347693

Use $SPX for C fund, $EMW for S fund, EFA for I fund, and AGG for F fund.

Thank you so much for this site and its charts. Looks to be what I have been looking for. I will have to play with those adjustments and all to see how I like them best. I did punch in the symbols you gave me for these funds and all is good.

Is there a chart for the G fund that I can punch in also here?

Thanks also for the definition of ETF in your other post.

Y'all are awesome here.

Wolverine

01-30-2007, 07:55 PM

How long does it take after you do an IFT to get the e-mail from them with all the info?

Spaf

01-30-2007, 08:09 PM

If I do a IFT in the AM. Generally after 10:00 PM is when I get a e-mail confirmation.

Wolverine

01-30-2007, 08:31 PM

If I do a IFT in the AM. Generally after 10:00 PM is when I get a e-mail confirmation.

Ok then, since I did an IFT tonight, I should get it tomorrow sometime?

I just wanted to get a general time frame of how long it takes to get these.

Thank you

Wolverine

01-31-2007, 07:58 PM

Ok then, since I did an IFT tonight, I should get it tomorrow sometime?

I just wanted to get a general time frame of how long it takes to get these.

Thank you

It has now been 24hrs since I put in my IFT and I still haven't gotten my email conformation.

Just wondering.

Spaf

01-31-2007, 08:01 PM

If you did one last night. It goes into effect after todays closing. They crunch the numbers, and you should get a e-mail confirmation around 10PM tonight.

Sorry, I'm in the Central Time zone

FUTURESTRADER

01-31-2007, 08:03 PM

Since you IFT'd after noon yesterday, it's essentially an IFT this morning before noon. So I would expect it as Spaf does after 10 pm. I don't know what time zone Spaf is in, however

Wolverine

01-31-2007, 08:32 PM

Spaf & FUTURESTRADER

Ok, I see, they don't crunch the numbers until after the close. That would make more sense now that I think about it.

Yes, I will probably be doing most of my IFT stuff the night before because of my schedule. If I have the next day off though, I will probably do it then.

Since this is my first IFT I just want to make sure I got all the time frames down and know what to expect. Once I get through this first one I will feel better and all. LOL

Made money the last two days, so now I want to keep it. Time to get serious with all this.

Thanks to both of you for your input.