Question- need sourced facts

[James48843]

Someone asked me the other day about the huge sums federal employees make in retirement. I tried to tell them that the average retirement payout was not huge at all, but I have been unable to locate specific facts on either the OPM website, or other websites.

Can anyone point me to a published data of how much the AVERAGE payout for a CSRS retirement is, and what is the AVERAGE payout for a FERS retirement these days?

I found some rough estimates dating back to 2002, but nothing more recent.

If you know of a source for this kind of factual information, I would be interested in the link.

Thanks in advance

[James48843]

The closest thing I could find is this chart- from an OPM fact book dated 2006, which showed the average payout in retirement payment of COMBINED CSRS and FERS. I was hoping to get a more recent data, and separate out CSRS and FERS to show the average payout of each these days.

16161

Anybody know where I can find more recent data, and data specifically to FERS?

[James48843]

Ok-only tidbit of data I have been able to gather is...here is the data on the relation of current CSRS employees still working, to FERS retirement plan still working, as of 2010:



Retirement Plan11.9% Civil Service Retirement
82.56% Federal Employees Retirement System and Social Security,

[clester]

An average pay wouldn't tell the story. Pay ranges are so varied. Maybe look at percentages of pay. Plus fers has tsp component that would be hard to gauge.

[alevin]

An average pay wouldn't tell the story. Pay ranges are so varied. Maybe look at percentages of pay. Plus fers has tsp component that would be hard to gauge.

Agreed, the tsp element would be hard to gauge, especially since its entirely dependent on ability to manage the funds pre-retirement, and ability to put enough away into it before retirement too. Apples to apples, I'd just compare the "pension" component. after all, if going to include the tsp component, might as well throw in the SS component too-which aint going to be there for us later boomers in anything like the amounts they prognosticate on the annual earnings statement. wish I'd known that a whole lot sooner than I did. so 2 legged stool not too steady. and if it does manage to have 3 legs, they're not going to all be equal length-lopsided stool not too steady either.

[James48843]

I am only looking for the defined benefit FERS pension payout data. Not the TSP or SS.

[tsptalk]

~ 1.0 to 1.1 percent of your high-3 average salary for each year of service

http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/computation.asp

[clester]

~ 1.0 to 1.1 percent of your high-3 average salary for each year of service

http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/computation.asp
Unless you are atc, police, firefighter and then it's 1.7%

[James48843]

My question isn't "how much do you earn in a FERS retirement".

My question is - how much is paid out by the goverment in the average FERS retirement for the last year available? the data above from the FACTBOOK (Last published in 2006), says the average monthly annuity for a retiree was $ 2,239 per month. That was average of BOTH CSRS and FERS. (One can presume that the CSRS number would be much larger than any FERS number). OPN quit publishing the FACTBOOK because of Section 508 problems (Section 508- make it accessable to the blind).

So I was looking for date more recent than 2006, AND was hoping to split out the average payout made for a FERS person.

The intent is to have facts at hand to counter those who seem to think federal employees make huge bloated pensions. (Some are saying fed employees make $100K per year in retirement money...simply not true for the vast majority of us).

[tsptalk]

I don't see it broken out by FERS but I found this...

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/retire/NSFTP_Retirements_00-10.asp

[James48843]

I don't see it broken out by FERS but I found this...

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/retire/NSFTP_Retirements_00-10.asp

Yes, that's number of people who have retired. But not how much retirement pay they are getting . that's what I am trying to find. A source for how much the average retirement check is.

[tsptalk]

Doh! I'm guessing that if YOU can't find it, it isn't out there. :)

[k0nkuzh0n]

I don't see it broken out by FERS but I found this...

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/retire/NSFTP_Retirements_00-10.asp

Something at the bottom of that page might help tho:


Previous versions of this table extended back to 1990. Due to 508 compliance matters, those columns had to be dropped. The data is available by sending a request to fedstats@opm.gov.

Maybe try contacting that email for additional information. Or there is other stuff at the bottom that might help too.

[Boghie]

James,

It is odd that such a statistic isn't available. Just odd, not suspicious! It might be rather difficult to attain - or, more likely, really doesn't mean much.

The following calculator might offer some assistance (although I don’t think it counts as a pure numbers cruncher source): http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/taxes/tax-receipt?utm_source=sidebar&utm_medium=image&utm_campaign=tout

Under ‘Job and Family Security’:

Spending of Federal Military and Civilian Retirement and Disability: $177 Billion
Railroad Retirement and Additional Income Security: $20 Billion

You might be able to simply divide the total number of people taking retirement by the budgeted amount. Not certain.

Regardless, my projected retirement at age 62 will be 30% FERS Pension and 70% TSP Distributions. I'm not counting Social Security because it will likely be jiggered between now and then. Now that I think about it, the FERS pension calculations will likely be jiggered as well - or, maybe we will have to contribute more.

[nnuut]

Why do you have to have those numbers Jim, on another Crusade or something?:D

[James48843]

Why do you have to have those numbers Jim, on another Crusade or something?:D

Yeh - you know me pretty well by now.

I'm having a discussion with a neighbor to claims that us federal employees all get these huge pensions that need to be cut down to size. My argument is that there are no "huge pensions" for federal employees.

But hey- I'm always tilting at windmills, aren't I?


16180

[nnuut]

I agree with you on this one, it seems that most folks think that.

[Boghie]

Yeah Jim, I have the same battle with friends and neighbors.

Nobody seems aware that the vast majority of our retirement comes from 401(k) distributions. And, that percentage increases rapidly as retirement age goes up. My TSP distributions could easily be 80% of the TSP/FERS split.

And, you know I am a bombastic right-winger:p. But when I hear Roger Hedgecook yakking it up about my amazingly generous retirement I know he doesn't understand the changes made in 1987. Anyone on FERS doesn't really get the benefits from the Defined Benefit Plan that the ignits think we do. We also pay full price (albiet, a nice full price because of the government pricing) of our health care insurance. The <sarcasm>hugely generous</sarcasm> part of our retirement is a small part of our retirement - and we know that it can be jiggered by politicians. I, personally would rather get some of the FERS employer contribution to put toward my TSP. I don't trust politicians.:D

[PessOptimist]

Yeh - you know me pretty well by now.

I'm having a discussion with a neighbor to claims that us federal employees all get these huge pensions that need to be cut down to size. My argument is that there are no "huge pensions" for federal employees.

But hey- I'm always tilting at windmills, aren't I?

James

You might try poking around on some of the internal .gov web sites you can get to at work. Often there is public domain information that doesn't show up on web searches.

Make sure it is public domain info. I'm sure I didn't need to say that.

Good luck on the discussion with the neighbor. His/her/it's beliefs likely won't be changed by any facts you find. The MSM all ready stated the "truth" and someone can always find a CSRS type who worked 42+ years and had a high 3 of $123K or so. Some of my acquaintances think I get free groceries and medical care because I'm a military annuitant.

I found an old post on this MB that has some 2007 info.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/archive/index.php/t-5035.html

You might be able to find out where this old info came from.

Maybe we should call you donkey-yote. Sounds like the punch line to a bad joke. A burro was wandering around the desert drinking one night when he spied a coyote...

Good luck with the search. I will be interested in the results.

PO

[Boghie]

It's too bad the public employees of Detroit (http://www.freep.com/article/20111115/NEWS01/111150398/Without-cuts-Detroit-runs-out-cash-by-April?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE) do not have a defined contribution retirement plan like TSP/401(k).

Today’s politicians will be forced to renege on former political promises.

Too bad public service Detroiters are dependent on politicians for their retirement.

That is why I much prefer my Defined Contribution Plan - that is, TSP/401(k). That is why I do not trust the FERS pension.

Oh well...

[Buster]

Thing is, these yak-abouts are lame brains and if they had half the smarts they think they have, they would of, or should of joined into Federal service too..Perhaps they tried, but were turned down due there own ineptness or ignorance..so now they are resentful and complain about someones pension, who put in 2/3's of their life into being a loyal dedicated servant of their country....Just tell them to get a life or get out of the one they're in, because they suck!...But don't look down on the work force that really served and earned their retiremnt honestly.....bastards!:mad:

[James48843]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZQlbtlErLo

[KevinD]

Doh! I'm guessing that if YOU can't find it, it isn't out there. :)

Agreed!

[James48843]

It's too bad the public employees of Detroit (http://www.freep.com/article/20111115/NEWS01/111150398/Without-cuts-Detroit-runs-out-cash-by-April?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE) do not have a defined contribution retirement plan like TSP/401(k).

Today’s politicians will be forced to renege on former political promises.

Too bad public service Detroiters are dependent on politicians for their retirement.

That is why I much prefer my Defined Contribution Plan - that is, TSP/401(k). That is why I do not trust the FERS pension.

Oh well...

Yes, but you can buy a house for less than 10K in many areas around Detroit.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Indiana-Detroit-MI-48221/2123861763_zpid/

Such a deal....

[nasa1974]

Yeh - you know me pretty well by now.

I'm having a discussion with a neighbor to claims that us federal employees all get these huge pensions that need to be cut down to size. My argument is that there are no "huge pensions" for federal employees.

But hey- I'm always tilting at windmills, aren't I?


16180

I had neighbor's that really thought as a Federal Employee I didn't pay income tax. Good luck James.

[Mapper]

I'm a newer Fed employee and everyone wonders why I don't have weeks & weeks of vacation (like many of them do, private industry professionals). I'm still on the 4hrs/pay period plan. Perceptions of our benefits are certainly interesting.

A friend of mine just accepted a Fed job and I overheard her talking about a 2-3 week vacation she was planning for the coming spring! I had to gingerly tell her that she may want to hold off on those reservations.

[Frixxxx]

I'm a newer Fed employee and everyone wonders why I don't have weeks & weeks of vacation (like many of them do, private industry professionals). I'm still on the 4hrs/pay period plan. Perceptions of our benefits are certainly interesting.

A friend of mine just accepted a Fed job and I overheard her talking about a 2-3 week vacation she was planning for the coming spring! I had to gingerly tell her that she may want to hold off on those reservations.

Nice thing about Gov't work....Boss can authorize leave without pay or advance an employee leave or.....gasp... use sick leave....But then it's all about who you work for.