9-9-9 Tax Plan - Impacts

[Birchtree]

All parasites should pay some tax.

[RealMoneyIssues]

How about everyone who is employed by the USG(mil, civ, ctr) not pay any taxes on their salary. Their salary would have to be reduced of course to compensate for the elimination of the payroll tax, but it would save a lot of expense of the government giving the money, then taking it away as payroll taxes...

Just a thought.

[Viva_La_Migra]

Interesting thought.
But then what? A few years later, some group (heritage, CPAC) will say "Hey, why aren't these guys paying any income tax"?
The public will get roiled up...and then you'll be in the tax pool again...along with the lower salary.:(

I've seen this with local fire agencies...in order to get better wildfire living quarters (cheap motels vs sleeping outside) some fire agencies agreed to a 2-3 year pay freeze to pay the costs. Then about 10 years later, the public (and some politicians) forgot about this and are going after their living quartes arrangement that was initially taken care of with several years of pay freeze a decade or more ago.

Memories run short in political times.:rolleyes:
Let the record reflect that, on the twentieth day of October, in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, I, Viva La Migra, actually agreed with FireWeatherMet on an issue pertaining to politics.:nuts:

It's a nice thought, but you know some politician is going to look at us down the road and complain that we aren't contributing to the cause.

[Kaufmanrider]

Under Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax reform plan, 84% of U.S. households would pay more than they do under current tax policies, according to a report released Tuesday by a nonpartisan research group. And the impact would be felt most heavily by the lowest income groups.

The Tax Policy Center study says its in overall tax increase on most...except those making over 200K/yr where its a tax cut.
Not a good strategy for winning an election...for either party.

Since about half of all Americans paying little or nothing in taxes, I would assume 84% would pay more than they do is accurate. Is it perfect, no, but at least it opens the door to talk about reforming the tax codes. We can't cut spending enough to balance the budget, we need to increase revenue.

In the same light, the President, Democrats, and Republicans are talking about changing the tax code, which in essence will do the same thing, i.e., make us all pay more in taxes then we do under current policies.

Tough times call for tough ideas. It's a start, let's debate it, tweak it, and put something in place before our kids have no future. Or have a future like Greece?????http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/icons/icon9.png

[Birchtree]

If you are still living here you should pay a tax for that privilege especially if your only contribution to society is to have illegitimate children.

[Bquat]

I'll likely post a more "partisan" topic on the beltway...

So why not just post this on the beltway. Why even stir the pot. Or post how this will effect the market. Why does each issue have to be posted here anyway? Can't they just be done on the beltway or does nobody reads it there.I just open this thread because there was something that would affect the market. Why, why, why.:)

[tsptalk]

I assume that there is no way in hell 9-9-9 will be implemented as originally designed, but it is a start.

I don't like the idea of a national sales tax, but having a way to collect some tax from those doing business 'under the table' is intriguing.

I like a flat tax idea and 9% sounds reasonable, assuming the other 2 legs are also collecting.

A 9% corporate tax could have the effect of businesses running back to the USA, and even some foriegn business coming over here.

It is certainly not perfect, but it's a good place to start.

Will the stock market like it? That's the question. :)

[Viva_La_Migra]

I'll likely post a more "partisan" topic on the beltway...

So why not just post this on the beltway. Why even stir the pot. Or post how this will effect the market. Why does each issue have to be posted here anyway? Can't they just be done on the beltway or does nobody reads it there.I just open this thread because there was something that would affect the market. Why, why, why.:)
Taxes are political. They also impact the market. Kudos to FWM for not posting his political view on the thread more forcefully than he did. I need a little more practice at that, I admit.:embarrest:

[Bquat]

Will the future TSP retirement lump sums be 9% taxed and the monthly withdrawls? Would be easier to figure your W4's not worring about a higher bracket.

[nnuut]

I assume that there is no way in hell 9-9-9 will be implemented as originally designed, but it is a start.

I don't like the idea of a national sales tax, but having a way to collect some tax from those doing business 'under the table' is intriguing.

I like a flat tax idea and 9% sounds reasonable, assuming the other 2 legs are also collecting.

A 9% corporate tax could have the effect of businesses running back to the USA, and even some foriegn business coming over here.

It is certainly not perfect, but it's a good place to start.

Will the stock market like it? That's the question. :)
Yes it needs revision but is one hell of a good start. I really don't like Starting a VAT without permanent limitations.

[nasa1974]

I always thought a flat tax would be the way to go, it seems so simple. But if a flat tax would be good for all of us why has it been so hard to implement? I know one problem with a flat tax is that no one wants to give up their deductions. I sure don't want to give up my mortgage and property tax deductions.

[nasa1974]

Just a reminder to keep things civil or your post may end up in purgatory or this thread could be closed. OK so I have on the bad hat.:notrust:

[Bquat]

Taxes are political. They also impact the market. Kudos to FWM for not posting his political view on the thread more forcefully than he did. I need a little more practice at that, I admit.:embarrest:

Oh, as I stated on the other thread, a moment of weakness. Maybe it will keep people visiting. I have noticed a big drop in the old members postings about the market anyway. Maybe it's just market burn out. There used to be a lot more after market posts from members describing what they thought was comming up the next day. Even a lot of regulars have stoped posting. I hope the short term negative
pulse of this message board improves as we enter the coming Bull market and the political part subsides as the money starts flowing in.:)

[tsptalk]

Will the future TSP retirement lump sums be 9% taxed and the monthly withdrawls? Would be easier to figure your W4's not worring about a higher bracket.
Good point. I always hoped they would some day tax IRA withdrawals as capital gains (15%) instead of ordinary income - at least the earnings portion, but this (9%) would be even better.

[KevinD]

My simple mind figures it will just about double my taxes paid. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Front page of the 1040 is for your income with a few "adjustments" toward the bottom to arrive at your "adjusted gross income" (AGI). On the second page is a line called "tax" The tax is figured on your "taxable income" after deductions and exemptions. My tax usually ends up being about 9 to 10% of my adjusted gross income before deductions and exemptions. That offsets one of the 9's...and I'm supposed to pay another 9% sales tax?

Again...please tell me I'm mistaken.

[tsptalk]

When I figure it, my total tax goes from 15% of AGI, to 9%. Of course then I'd pay 9% sales tax on purchases. Seems like my total would be reduced but I'm not 100% sure.

[rcknfrewld]

If you are still living here you should pay a tax for that privilege especially if your only contribution to society is to have illegitimate children.

It's about time everyone pays some sort of their fair share to compensate for the rich overpaying theirs

[alevin]

My simple mind figures it will just about double my taxes paid. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Front page of the 1040 is for your income with a few "adjustments" toward the bottom to arrive at your "adjusted gross income" (AGI). On the second page is a line called "tax" The tax is figured on your "taxable income" after deductions and exemptions. My tax usually ends up being about 9 to 10% of my adjusted gross income before deductions and exemptions. That offsets one of the 9's...and I'm supposed to pay another 9% sales tax?

Again...please tell me I'm mistaken.

Kev, more than likely you are NOT mistaken. I read another analysis the other day, forget where, most of us middle-class types would end up paying higher taxes. the logic trail in that analysis connected dots for me. will see if can relocate that article I read.

[Buster]

My simple mind figures it will just about double my taxes paid. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Front page of the 1040 is for your income with a few "adjustments" toward the bottom to arrive at your "adjusted gross income" (AGI). On the second page is a line called "tax" The tax is figured on your "taxable income" after deductions and exemptions. My tax usually ends up being about 9 to 10% of my adjusted gross income before deductions and exemptions. That offsets one of the 9's...and I'm supposed to pay another 9% sales tax?

Again...please tell me I'm mistaken.I think you might be right in some respects to your sistuation....But I really think there will be some major adjustments to the 1040's...

But what I think would really make all this work, would be to stop the April 15th filings all together for non business or in other words, personal/family filings would be abolished

[Viva_La_Migra]

I think tax returns should be filed on election day! :cool:

[Frixxxx]

When I figure it, my total tax goes from 15% of AGI, to 9%. Of course then I'd pay 9% sales tax on purchases. Seems like my total would be reduced but I'm not 100% sure.The Problem with a flat tax is that it is a consumer tax. When market fluctuates and consumerism falls, it automatically costs the government. Less jobs, less earners, less taxes, less government revenue. Also, when the government needs to operate above it's revenue stream I agree it will cause the government to increase the levels and thus, taxation above the promise. Progressive tax works but distribution of the levels needs to address progressively, and not layered like a cake. But that means that it has to be lowered to reach the levels of those who are currently not paying...And hence, not fair. And no, do not pay taxes on election day...Then it's too late.....Taxes should be an honor to pay, not a burden......

[nasa1974]

My understanding of a flat tax is that there are no deductions. So if you earn $100,000.00 you will pay $9,000.00.

[Bquat]

I think you might be right in some respects to your sistuation....But I really think there will be some major adjustments to the 1040's...

But what I think would really make all this work, would be to stop the April 15th filings all together for non business or in other words, personal/family filings would be abolished

With a flat tax why would you have to file. Matter of fact the goverment can automatically take out your tax and there would be no delenquent tax payers. I don't know why they don't automatically take tax out of your pay and have you file for your deductions in a return. Then everyone would file to get their part back. Don't know about the ones who work for cash and don't claim income, like maids, car washers, auto detail and lawn and garden businesses and so on.

[SteelSaving]

A national sales tax is an awful idea. It is a brand new tax to raise along with income tax. Why not get by the way we did for the first 150 years. No sales tax, no income tax. Tax booze.

[Bquat]

A national sales tax is an awful idea. It is a brand new tax to raise along with income tax. Why not get by the way we did for the first 150 years. No sales tax, no income tax. Tax booze.

Tax booze, cigaretts, soda, sugar, candy, icecream, donuts, mary jane, prositutes and anything else that can be legalized and taxed with a sells tax.:D Maybe not donuts. Just make them $16.00 each for congress.

[Viva_La_Migra]

The Problem with a flat tax is that it is a consumer tax. When market fluctuates and consumerism falls, it automatically costs the government. Less jobs, less earners, less taxes, less government revenue. Also, when the government needs to operate above it's revenue stream I agree it will cause the government to increase the levels and thus, taxation above the promise. Progressive tax works but distribution of the levels needs to address progressively, and not layered like a cake. But that means that it has to be lowered to reach the levels of those who are currently not paying...And hence, not fair. And no, do not pay taxes on election day...Then it's too late.....Taxes should be an honor to pay, not a burden......
The people will remember who is causing the increase in their taxes if returns are filed on election day.;)

[nnuut]

A national sales tax is an awful idea. It is a brand new tax to raise along with income tax. Why not get by the way we did for the first 150 years. No sales tax, no income tax. Tax booze.
HEY!!! Watch that Buddy! 15842

[ILoveTDs]

I'm confused on the 9% corporate tax. My understanding is by reducing the corporate tax to 9% would make America a more desireable location to move or create a corporation. Therefore, infusing the economy and creating job growth which turns into more tax revenue overall (trickly down economics). If this is in fact the theory, as I understand it, then in theory wouldn't a 8%, 7%, ....., 1%, 0% corporate tax rate make America even more competative (then 9%) in the global economy and creating job growth which turns into more tax revenue overall.

[WorkFE]

As a business owner I like the way you're thinking but taxes must be collected by all segments. (Class and Business).

[nnuut]

I think if we want our own companies to start moving back to the USA 0% corporiate taxes and other incentives would probably do the trick.:cool:

[James48843]

A national sales tax is an awful idea. It is a brand new tax to raise along with income tax. Why not get by the way we did for the first 150 years. No sales tax, no income tax. Tax booze.

They taxed imports then. Everything that came from outside the U.S. was subject to an import duty. Amazing how well that worked. Average rate was between 20% and 35% over more than 100 years. and that funded almost everything we needed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_United_States_history

[nasa1974]

I think corporate tax had very little to do with it. Why stay here and pay an American worker $20/hr when you can go oversees and pay less than $20/day.

[Viva_La_Migra]

I think corporate tax had very little to do with it. Why stay here and pay an American worker $20/hr when you can go oversees and pay less than $20/day.
Is it just the hourly rate, or is it payroll, taxes, and unfriendly business regulations? I think they'd deal with payroll if they didn't have so much regulatory red tape and high corporate taxes.

[ILoveTDs]

If labor costs of $20 an hour can't compete with the likes of let’s say the Chinese yen and their hourly rate. Then wouldn't it make sense to print say $14 Trillion, demonetizing our dollar, pay off china, and have comparable wages?