Thread: TSP Talk Silver Coins / "Rounds"

Originally Posted by tsptalk

Good info.

Just to keep the conversation going: Is the value any less on personalized coins if trying to sell them? I own a couple "regular" sleeves already, so if I had the "regular" coin sleeve, and a TSP Talk coin sleeve, and I needed to sell one so I can buy a shiny new iphone, would selling the personalized coins get me the same amount from a coin dealer as the regular one?

I don't need any info why I should or shouldn't sell the coins once I own them, I am just curious since I don't know enough about them. Like I said, I will probably buy more than anybody so this is just for anyone reading and considering purchasing some.

Thanks!

standard gov eagles or maple leafs go for ~$4 over spot. standard private mint or off-gov coins about $2.50 over. they sell at comparable discounts too. the price of custom mint approaches gov coins because of volume. it is more economical to run 50,000 private mint standards than 500 private mint customs.

there is almost no way to profit buying/selling a few coins at retail unless many years go by. or relative values drastically change, your empty belly calls to you louder than the combination on your safe, or else you need to buy 2 to cover your eyes so the ferryman will get you to the otherside. then they become priceless..

Just posting to change the title to "TSP Talk Silver Coins / "Rounds". I'm not sure how / why it started to say "Re: TSP Talk Mug Shots!".

Carry on...

?

HELLO, AGAIN!!! It's time to talk SILVER based on the new lower price! We STILL need a few more commitments to get the manufacture going....so how about it?! The time to buy is NOW! Anyone else interested in getting on board the SILVER TRAIN?!?!

I am still very much on board the Silver Train. I hope we start steaming soon. The bar is running out of whiskey.

Originally Posted by burrocrat

some general thoughts on buying physical silver... (part a)

owning coins is less about investing than it is about insurance and collecting. if you want to make money investing then there a lot's of etf's your can purchase shares in for cash and then later trade those shares in for more cash if your guess on the price direction of silver is correct.

purchasing physical silver always costs more than spot price because someone has to dig it out of the ground, light the fire, pour it into a mold, and maybe stamp it with a pretty design before it gets to you in shiny coin form. as with any commodity, the closer to the source and the more volume you can move costs less. the u.s. and canadian governments cost about $4 per ounce over spot for their custom silver coins. other governments and private mints cost less over spot because of the value of reputation, among other factors. some governments and private mints have a better reputation than others.

there are always 3 costs above spot price that dictate how much you pay for a coin. 1) the cost for somebody to create a set of dies to stamp a pretty picture on it. 2) the cost to pay folks to switch out and install the dies on machinery that stamps a pretty picture on it. and 3) the cost to have someone deliver a coin with a pretty stamp on it delivered to your hot little hands. 1 is a function of volume (dies cost money to make, the more coins you stamp pretty pictures on with a particular set of dies the less the cost per coin for the dies). 2 is a function of the time (somebody has to pay somebody to stamp pretty pictures on coins and keep their lights on so the coin stamping labor can take home enough to keep their lights on and make it to their job stamping coins tomorrow). 3 is a function of both time and labor (because the truck was going there anyways so might as well have it deliver 5000 coins as 500, unless you need it faster and want to hire a plane instead).

i regularly buy generic happy birthday and holiday coins, sometimes with custom engravings on them, at jewelers, coin stores and pawn shops (mostly pawn shops) for about $1 over spot. i'm not sure how much per coin it takes to engrave plus premium over spot for the custom engraved coin. i am sure the custom engraving means something to the original giver 100% of the time. the frequency of their occurance at pawn shops suggests the percentage of the original recievers appreciation is some what less.

every picture tells a story, don't it?

some general thoughts on buying tsptalk silver (part b):

there will always be a premium over spot price of silver to purchase coins, whether you buy them from the u.s. or canadian mints or from a private mint. this is a separate cost from creating custom dies, shipping, etc. i was looking at "northwest territorial mint" for the job because they are large and well established and have many variations of their own private mint silver, they do a lot of volume. they are also the largest provider of military challenge coins and an approved gov contract supplier. they run ~$4 over spot for custom mint coins which is comparable to premium for eagles or maple leafs.

so there is a fixed cost of $4 over spot for tsptalk silver coins. you can go buy other generic private mint coins for ~$2.50 over spot, but they won't say tsptalk on them. you can go buy u.s. mint eagles at ~$4 over spot, but they won't say tsp talk on them either. if you are looking to nickle and dime a deal on a used toyota this is not the deal for you. if you want a cadillac, then what's it going to take to put you in some tsptalk silver today?

about an extra 2 grand. let me explain.

shipping and handling: the mint will ship a 'monster box' to tsptalk for free. 500 ounces is more than 30 pounds. when was the last time you picked up a 30 pound package at the post office? there is some logistical and security concerns here. now tom has to get it home, part it out into individual orders for maybe 20 different tsptalkers who presumambly don't all live together, package, maybe insure, and ship to your door. what does that cost? i don't know but i estimate it at $1 per coin. that may be light depending on tom's goodwill in exchange for getting tsptalk brand in custom silver out there.

so where does the other $1,500 go? for making the dies. once the dies are made tom owns them, it is his trademark after all, his livelyhood. subsequent runs of 500 coin batches (if there was demand) would not incur this $1,500 die creation expense. so you can see the die creation is but a small part of the overall expense. now maybe we could cheap out and save $500 on some crappy dies, but there will always be some initial expense to create some kind of dies. someone has to help finance this bold expedition, think of yourself as a pioneer, what kind of mark do you wish to leave, what do you hope to discover?

in my initial flyby of the mint, it was $1,500 for a set of both obverse and reverse dies, $750 or less each unless we wanted to recreate venus de milo or the cistine chapel. now we could cheap out and ask if the mint will let us use a generic preexisting die for the reverse but we'd only save $750 on an order of approximately $11,500 order (500 coins x (15 spot + 4 premium + 4 ship/dies). and if i'm paying this much already for a shiny coin, i don't want to be embarrassed when i look at its backside.

so that is the economics of custom mint tsptalk silver coins. if you are not on board with that or prefer to scrounge generic silver then this is not the cadillac for you.

i want 30 ounces. a virgin sleeve of 25 i never touch, and 5 to play with. 1 for my collection to have and hold, 1 for my son's collection, 1 for a ball marker on the greens when i finally learn to golf, 1 for my pocket to carry around and rub for good luck when i make what will probably be a stupid trade in my tsp.gov account, and 1 for i don't know what yet. i might drop it in the salvation army kettle out front of walmart or take up geocaching and leave a shiny little present for the next explorer, who knows?

so put me down for 30 ounces. and i hereby appoint uscfanhawaii to be the keeper of the pledge list.

Originally Posted by burrocrat

some general thoughts on buying tsptalk silver (part b):

there will always be a premium over spot price of silver to purchase coins, whether you buy them from the u.s. or canadian mints or from a private mint. this is a separate cost from creating custom dies, shipping, etc. i was looking at "northwest territorial mint" for the job because they are large and well established and have many variations of their own private mint silver, they do a lot of volume. they are also the largest provider of military challenge coins and an approved gov contract supplier. they run ~$4 over spot for custom mint coins which is comparable to premium for eagles or maple leafs.

so there is a fixed cost of $4 over spot for tsptalk silver coins. you can go buy other generic private mint coins for ~$2.50 over spot, but they won't say tsptalk on them. you can go buy u.s. mint eagles at ~$4 over spot, but they won't say tsp talk on them either. if you are looking to nickle and dime a deal on a used toyota this is not the deal for you. if you want a cadillac, then what's it going to take to put you in some tsptalk silver today?

about an extra 2 grand. let me explain.

shipping and handling: the mint will ship a 'monster box' to tsptalk for free. 500 ounces is more than 30 pounds. when was the last time you picked up a 30 pound package at the post office? there is some logistical and security concerns here. now tom has to get it home, part it out into individual orders for maybe 20 different tsptalkers who presumambly don't all live together, package, maybe insure, and ship to your door. what does that cost? i don't know but i estimate it at $1 per coin. that may be light depending on tom's goodwill in exchange for getting tsptalk brand in custom silver out there.

so where does the other $1,500 go? for making the dies. once the dies are made tom owns them, it is his trademark after all, his livelyhood. subsequent runs of 500 coin batches (if there was demand) would not incur this $1,500 die creation expense. so you can see the die creation is but a small part of the overall expense. now maybe we could cheap out and save $500 on some crappy dies, but there will always be some initial expense to create some kind of dies. someone has to help finance this bold expedition, think of yourself as a pioneer, what kind of mark do you wish to leave, what do you hope to discover?

in my initial flyby of the mint, it was $1,500 for a set of both obverse and reverse dies, $750 or less each unless we wanted to recreate venus de milo or the cistine chapel. now we could cheap out and ask if the mint will let us use a generic preexisting die for the reverse but we'd only save $750 on an order of approximately $11,500 order (500 coins x (15 spot + 4 premium + 4 ship/dies). and if i'm paying this much already for a shiny coin, i don't want to be embarrassed when i look at its backside.

so that is the economics of custom mint tsptalk silver coins. if you are not on board with that or prefer to scrounge generic silver then this is not the cadillac for you.

i want 30 ounces. a virgin sleeve of 25 i never touch, and 5 to play with. 1 for my collection to have and hold, 1 for my son's collection, 1 for a ball marker on the greens when i finally learn to golf, 1 for my pocket to carry around and rub for good luck when i make what will probably be a stupid trade in my tsp.gov account, and 1 for i don't know what yet. i might drop it in the salvation army kettle out front of walmart or take up geocaching and leave a shiny little present for the next explorer, who knows?

so put me down for 30 ounces. and i hereby appoint uscfanhawaii to be the keeper of the pledge list.

some specific thoughts on buying tsptalk silver (part c):

coins have an obverse (heads) and a reverse (tails), it takes a different die for each.

here are some examples:

6262__big.jpg
us gov

6292__big.jpg
canadian gov

1364__big.jpg
private mint 1

2987__big.jpg
private mint 2

i was thinking an obverse with tsptalk logo and the saying "friend's don't let friends buy and hold" scrolled around the edge. maybe with .999 fine silver or 1 oz. added at the top or bottom.

tsptalklogo_mb_dflt.png

maybe just this in the middle

arrow_small.jpg

with this text scrolled around outside

tsptalklogo3.jpg

this probably works better because it gets the 'tsptalk.com' text brand in there too, with 'friends don't let...' still around the outside. that is my vote for heads. what other ideas are out there?

IMG_20141116_063504.jpg

for the reverse we could go a few different ways.

a repeated bland tsptalk.com pattern but on round

1365__big.jpg

or a second option is divisible into quarters, i really like this idea

2987__big.jpg

with ' buy low sell high' one word in each quadrant. and a smaller 1/4 ounce in each quadrant too.

buylowsellhigh.gif

now hurry up silver bugs, pledge your ounces again so we know where we stand. i got xmas cash burning a hole in my pocket and i might just end up buying everyone ugly sweaters on sale with it if we don't purchase silver instead.

My pledge of 5 still stands. I may up it to 10 if spot price drops lower before we hit 500. but for now, sticking to 5. budget for optional purchases is in a major holding pattern, pending resolution of special situation, resolution timing yet to be determined.