Comparisons to private funds

**James48843** · 12-14-2007, 07:35 PM

The Thrift Board's presentation talked about comparisons to private funds, saying that most private funds limit trades.

So I started checking into it.

Vangard, on their website, does not list any limits at all. They DO have some funds with associated transaction fees- mostly the foreign funds (as we talked about elsewhere), where redemtion fees of up to 2% are charged. However, this only applies to a small number of the individual funds. Some are at 2% redemption fee, others at 1% redemption fees, but the vast majority have no fees at all.

Here is the list of Vanguard's products:

Vanguard® Funds by Asset Class Prices and performance

Expense ratio information can be found on the Overview page.
Click a fund name to view standardized returns, after-tax returns, and expense ratio information.
Important fund performance information

Money market funds | Bond funds | Balanced funds | Stock funds
Change share class Investor Shares Admiral Shares Institutional Shares All

Money Market Funds
A money market mutual fund investment is not insured or guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government agency. Although a money market mutual fund seeks to preserve the value of your investment at $1 per share, it is possible to lose money by investing in such a fund.
Taxable Money Market
NameFund
No.Price as of 12/13/2007YTD Returns
as of
12/13/2007Average Annual Total
Returns as of 11/30/2007PriceChangeYield1 Year5 Year10 YearSince InceptionAdmiral Trsy Money Mkt0011$1.00$0.000.00%3.90%C4.58%4.87%2.86%3.63%3.96%12/14/1992Federal Money Mkt Fund0033$1.00$0.000.00%4.56%C4.84%5.12%2.89%3.70%5.75%07/13/1981Prime Money Mkt Fund0030$1.00$0.000.00%4.67%C4.90%5.18%2.93%3.74%6.46%06/04/1975Treasury Money Mkt Fund0050$1.00$0.000.00%3.78%C4.45%4.74%2.70%3.46%5.08%03/09/1983Return to top

</DIV>Bond Funds
Taxable Short-Term Bond
NameFund
No.Price as of 12/13/2007YTD Returns
as of
12/13/2007Average Annual Total
Returns as of 11/30/2007PriceChangeYield1 Year5 Year10 YearSince InceptionShort-Term Bond Index Inv0132$10.10–$0.02–0.20%3.79%A6.67%6.80%3.79%5.13%5.40%03/01/1994Short-Term Federal Inv0049$10.52–$0.01–0.09%4.05%A6.79%6.80%3.48%5.12%6.23%12/31/1987Short-Term Invest-Gr Inv0039$10.63–$0.01–0.09%4.84%A5.41%5.95%4.13%5.13%7.36%10/29/1982Short-Term Treasury Inv0032$10.59–$0.02–0.19%3.17%A7.37%7.40%3.59%5.07%5.48%10/28/1991Return to top

(more)
© 1995–2007 The Vanguard Group, Inc. All rights reserved. Vanguard Marketing Corp.,
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**James48843** · 12-14-2007, 08:24 PM

Vanguard's policies:

Vangard has about 120 funds to choose from, and only 24 of them have any kind of redemption fees or fees if you sell early. Some, as noted above, require a redemption fee if you hold it less than 60 days. the redemption fee is either .25%, 1% , or, in the case of about 5 foreign funds, 2%.

However, for the other 90+ funds, there is no fee.
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Here is their policy on trading retirement accouts at Vanguard: As you can see, it DOES NOT apply to EFT funds- those which try to mimic indexes.

Here is the link to the list of EFT's that Vanguard allows unlimited free trading in 401(k) style plans:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/con...RSharesJSP.jsp

__________________________________________________ ________

Frequent-trading policy

If you sell or exchange shares of a Vanguard fund, you will not be permitted to buy or exchange back into the same fund, in the same account, within 60 calendar days. However, this rule does not apply to:

Vanguard money market and short-term bond funds.
Vanguard ETF™ Shares.
Transaction requests submitted by mail to Vanguard by shareholders who hold their accounts directly with us. Please note that transaction requests submitted by fax or wire are subject to the policy.
Purchases of shares with fund dividends or capital gains distributions. For example, if you reinvest dividends or capital gains, these purchases will not be blocked even if shares in the fund were sold or exchanged within the previous 60 days.
Transactions made through Vanguard’s Automatic Investment Plan, Automatic Exchange Service, Direct Deposit Service, Automatic Withdrawal Plan, Required Minimum Distribution Service, and Vanguard Small Business Online®.
Sales of shares by Vanguard to pay fund or account fees.
Transfers and re-registrations of shares within the same fund.
Purchases of shares by asset transfer or rollover.
Conversions of shares from one share class to another in the same fund.
Sales of shares through checkwriting.
Section 529 college savings plans, certain approved institutional portfolios and asset allocation programs, as well as trades made by Vanguard funds that invest in other Vanguard funds. (Please note that shareholders of Vanguard's funds of funds are subject to this policy.)

For information about the Vanguard Variable Insurance Funds’ frequent-trading policy, see the funds’ prospectus. A separate policy applies to participants in employer-sponsored retirement plans administered by Vanguard.

© 1995–2007 The Vanguard Group, Inc. All rights reserved. Vanguard Marketing Corp.,

**James48843** · 12-14-2007, 08:26 PM

Vanguard's list of U.S. Stock index EFT's which can be traded without restriction in a 401(k) :
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

stock index funds:

ETF share class
Fund (Trading symbol) Target index

Vanguard Total Stock Vanguard Total Stock MSCI

® US Broad
Market Index Fund Market ETF (VTI) Market Index
Vanguard Extended Vanguard Extended S&P Completion
Market Index Fund Market ETF (VXF) Index
Vanguard Large-Cap Vanguard Large-Cap MSCI US Prime
Index Fund ETF (VV) Market 750 Index
Vanguard Mid-Cap Vanguard Mid-Cap MSCI US Mid
Value Index Fund Value ETF (VOE) Cap Value Index
Vanguard Mid-Cap Vanguard Mid-Cap MSCI US Mid
Index Fund ETF (VO) Cap 450 Index
Vanguard Mid-Cap Vanguard Mid-Cap MSCI US Mid
Growth Index Fund Growth ETF (VOT) Cap Growth Index
Vanguard Small-Cap Vanguard Small-Cap MSCI US Small
Index Fund ETF (VB) Cap 1750 Index
Vanguard Value Vanguard Value MSCI US Prime
Index Fund ETF (VTV) Market Value Index
Vanguard Small-Cap Vanguard Small-Cap MSCI US Small
Value Index Fund Value ETF (VBR) Cap Value Index
Vanguard Growth Vanguard Growth MSCI US Prime
Index Fund ETF (VUG) Market Growth Index
Vanguard Small-Cap Vanguard Small-Cap MSCI US Small
Growth Index Fund Growth ETF (VBK) Cap Growth Index
Vanguard Dividend Vanguard Dividend Dividend Achievers
Appreciation Appreciation Select Index*
Index Fund ETF (VIG)
Vanguard High Vanguard High FTSE® High
Dividend Yield Dividend Yield Dividend Yield
Index Fund ETF (VYM) Index

**James48843** · 12-14-2007, 08:28 PM

They also have a bunch of Bond funds, and international stock fund choices that allow free movement, without sales fees, limits, or redemption fees.

**TRAFFIC_DOG** · 12-14-2007, 08:50 PM

Nice work James, with this and all your efforts.

It's clear that the 2 headed beast is:

1. The complexities and risk of managing the I fund as opposed to a simple ETF as in EFA.
2. The clear mindless irritation of certain TSP board members in thinking some of us are "beating the system".