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Thread: Corn and Ethanol.

  1. #13

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    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    This country boy has been buying farm machinery stocks for the last several years trying to build a substantial position to participate no matter what commodity they use the most of - it requires machinery to gather. Corn is an important factor in the food and beverage industry, and it also influences prices for other foodstuffs such as meat and poultry. That's important because food has a weighting of about 14% in the CPI. That is considerably more than energy's weighting of 8.5% and second only to shelter's weighting of 32%. Shelter is heavily influenced by rents, which face downward pressure as owners of unsold homes put them up for rent. So inflation is ebbing. It was up just 0.5% at an annual rate in the past six months.

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  3. #14

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    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    Farmers start getting profitable they can rotate out the old machinery. Don't forget seed corn, fertilizer, and chemicals.
    Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."

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  5. #15

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    Talking The White Elephant continues.

    Well there you go, the President went to Brazil this week to work out a pact with them for Ethanol. It must be finally soaking in that the U.S. does not have the ability to produce enough Ethanol to do the job and the higher corn prices will start being felt in "food inflation". Not good for the little guy. Now we are dependent on yet another foreign country for our fuel or fuel additive.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for efficient energy, clean energy, and creating jobs for the rural communities. At what price though?

    Now if I am correct this pact hurts the U.S. farmer, by lowering demand and price, but the oil companies still get the tax credit for blending the Ethanol into the fuel. Brilliant!!!

    Ethanol blended fuel is less fuel efficient (mpg) than straight gasoline and more harmful to the environment because we use fossil fuel to make the ethanol. The conversion, in btu, should remain the same unless they improve the process. IMHO the process has already been tweaked to the max by the industry. Now the only way to make it efficient is to have cheaper energy to convert the corn to ethanol or develop a better crop that has more sugar in it. That's all ya got.

    "David Pimental, a leading Cornell University agricultural expert, has calculated that powering the average U.S. automobile for one year on ethanol (blended with gasoline) derived from corn would require 11 acres of farmland, the same space needed to grow a year's supply of food for seven people. Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion into ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make one gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTUS. Thus, 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in it. Every time you make one gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTUs."

    These findings were published in 2001 when fuel and corn were both much cheaper.

    By the evidence I have been reading we are better off burning straight gasoline instead of Ethanol blended gasoline because it is more fuel efficient (mpg) and cost less to make (both in dollars and in harming the environment). Companies are looking for the cheapest fuel they can burn to make their Ethanol...................COAL. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...s/16834568.htm

    In my area there are 4 or 5 ethanol plants operating or laying ground work and they all use NATURAL GAS to cook the mash. We're doomed!
    Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."

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  7. #16

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    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    I think we should try Milk Weed and Crab Grass, they grow everywhere, you don't have to fertilize(if you did oh my gosh), You can't kill them and they come back every year. How about kudzu?



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  9. #17

    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    Quote Originally Posted by moodysj View Post
    From a show on the History channel last night:

    Sugar cane yields 2 times the amount of ethanol per acre compared to corn.
    Switchgrass yields 4 times the amount of ethanol per acre compared to corn.
    Thank God for switchgrass, or everything you eat will double in price....there have been reports that there isn't enough vegetation to produce enough ethanol....hydrogen is the way to go.....or direct solar.....in one form or the other (wind, hydrothermal, hydro)
    The Technician (escapades at times as Carnac)

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  11. #18

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    Post Corn, Ethanol, and now food inflation.

    As this applies to my ethanol rant I will post it here also.


    "Costs have surged for fuel and petroleum-based products and for the corn used to feed dairy cows, a side effect of increases in the production of ethanol. Bower said he now pays about $180 a ton to feed his 500 dairy cows, up from $115 a ton a year ago, an increase of more than 50 percent."

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070330/farm_....v=2&printer=1
    Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."


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  13. #19

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    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    That is really stupid!! Make it out of Milkweed or something, what are they CRAZY!!



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  15. #20

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    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    but they're still pushing the corn...planting most corn this year since 1944

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  17. #21

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    Talking Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    AP
    Ethanol Demand Boosts Corn Planting
    Friday March 30, 10:46 pm ET
    By Nafeesa Syeed and David Pitt, Associated Press Writers

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070330/plant...port.html?.v=8

    Ethanol Demand Boosts Corn Planting 15 Percent in 2007, Biggest Since 1944

    DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- An ethanol-fueled boom in prices will prompt American farmers to plant the most corn since the year the Allies invaded Normandy, but surging demand could mean consumers still may pay more for everything from chicken to cough syrup.
    Farmers are expected to plant 90.5 million acres of corn, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture's annual prospective plantings report released Friday. That would be a 15 percent increase over 2006 and the most corn planted since 1944.
    Mother Nature will play a large part in the actual acreage planted. Muddy fields are already slowing plantings in some states.
    "We're awfully wet out here," said John Scott, a grain farmer in west central Iowa. "Normally by this time of year we're doing quite a bit of field work. There just isn't a wheel turning out here. Illinois is in the same boat."
    Corn should be planted by mid-May for good yields and soybeans can be planted as late as June, which could be a fallback plan for farmers if corn doesn't get planted in time.
    The move to plant corn is in large part due to a rush to produce corn-based ethanol, which is blended with gasoline. There are now 114 ethanol refineries nationwide and another 80 under construction.
    The corn rush was sparked by President Bush's initiative to support flexible-fuel vehicles, which are capable of using gasoline and ethanol blends, and his administration's plan to cut gas consumption by 20 percent in 10 years. Corn prices were already rising when Bush announced the initiative in Washington on Jan. 23 and there has been growing concern that the corn rush could hurt the poor in less-developed nations such as Mexico, where the crop is a staple used in tortillas.
    Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."

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  19. #22

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    Post More on the great white elephant.

    http://technocrat.net/d/2007/4/18/18275

    A Stanford researcher claims that ethanol is more or less as bad as gasoline when it comes to air pollution, and actually worse as regards ozone. He based his study on a computer model comparing normal gasoline and E85 blend, then ran it to year 2020. <LI class=body_text>...""There are alternatives, such as battery-electric, plug-in-hybrid and hydrogen-fuel cell vehicles, whose energy can be derived from wind or solar power," he added. "These vehicles produce virtually no toxic emissions or greenhouse gases and cause very little disruption to the land—unlike ethanol made from corn or switchgrass, which will require millions of acres of farmland to mass-produce. It would seem prudent, therefore, to address climate, health and energy with technologies that have known benefits.""...more there ed; and back in the real world, we have a huge already established liquid fuels transportation sector, both the vehicles and delivery system, where a transition switch to ethanol and biodiesel is *cheap* and *easy* compared to anything else. At a minimum, the plant based fuels are carbon neutral. I also would like to see a variety of pure electric (and affordable, not just exotic sportscars for rich folks toys) vehicles on the market,(with the solar PV carport part of the package) but for extended range, there is no getting it around it right now or for the next X-years, there will still need to be liquid fuel engines (I prefer the tow-behind generator-trailer idea to make "hybrids" from pure electrics). Any pure electrics based on lithium-dang-anything batteries are going to cost a *mint* if you want any normal "tank 0 gas" range. That's just reality now. I wish it was different, but it isn't. For short range commuting and urban delivery-ya, pure electrics are good enough now if some of the majors would just get the dang things on the market and be done with it. the Model A electric, just do it. Average US commute=33 miles. Get them to do 50 and fall into the econobox price range to start with, you'll sell them. For anything else, nope, not good enough, not without them being hybrids of some sort, integral or tow behind for the ICE, which brings you back to liquid fuels necessity, which you can A) import at great expense by exporting cash and with huge political baggage from a variety of dodgy and troublesome areas of the world or B)have your local farmers make it and keep a lot of that loot circulating internally.. And no, hydrogen (which would be option C) is still a long ways away near as I can tell. Option B therefore still looks better to me until Mr. Backyard Fusion powerpacks are at home depot for $299..

    http://www.sitnews.us/0407news/04190...hanolrisk.html

    April 19, 2007
    Thursday

    If ethanol ever gains widespread use as a clean alternative fuel to gasoline, people with respiratory illnesses may be in trouble.
    A new study out of Stanford says pollution from ethanol could end up creating a worse health hazard than gasoline, especially for people with asthma and other respiratory diseases.
    Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."

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  21. #23

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    Post Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    Was talking to some farmer friend yesterday and the prices are going up. Hay ground rent is at a top. Large round bales of hay are fetching a premium price.

    Under normal conditions a large round bale of hay would bring $20-$35 depending on size and quality. Now I am hearing of hay bringing $25-$75 in depleted areas.

    I am also seeing more hay on the road than ever before. Trucker hauling hay to areas hit by drought that are running out now. Those are the $75 bales. My friend is debating feeding livestock or just selling the hay. Just selling the hay would be easier on him because he would not have livestock to care for every day and he lowers his risk of one getting sick or death. Big profit killer.

    I have experience a 25&#37; increase in horse hay from last month. Supply is getting tight. Feeding grain is becoming less of an option.

    Small cattle producers in my area are feeding more hay and less grain or cutting the herd size.

    Just sharing.
    Socrates: "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike."

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  23. #24

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    Default Re: Corn and Ethanol.

    Jun 08 2007 Unintended Consequences of the Ethanol Boom


    While the US government foolishly turns to ethanol as part of the solution to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, the rapidly rising cost of corn is having devastating unintended consequences. A shortage of tequila and pricey tortillas. You may want to stock up on supplies now for next year’s Cinco de Mayo party.

    According to MSNBC “The switch to corn will contribute to an expected scarcity of agave in coming years, with officials predicting that farmers will plant between 25 percent and 35 percent less agave this year to turn the land over to corn. “

    Seriously though, this is just one ripple affect on food prices. The demand for ethanol will undoubtedly lead to inflation across the entire food supply as acreage for other food supplies shrink and feed for animals skyrockets. How bad is it? It has become so expensive to feed their livestock corn based feed that one farmer is feeding his livestock cookies, licorice, cheese curls, candy bars, french fries, frosted wheat cereal and peanut-butter cups! Another farmer in Idaho is feeding them tater tots! See the entire article over at the Wall Street Journal (paid) According to the National Chicken Council (via HPJ.com) “The price of corn has driven the cost of feeding chickens up 40 percent. Chicken is the most popular meat with consumers.”

    Ethanol induced food inflation could potentially have a significant impact on the economy and at worst be the catalyst for a global recession. If that weren’t enough, how about the destruction of our environment which lasts a lifetime? In Southeast Asia, vast areas of tropical forest are being cleared and burned to plant oil palms destined for conversion to biodiesel. Soybeans and especially corn are row crops that contribute to soil erosion and water pollution and require large amounts of fertilizer, pesticides, and fuel to grow, harvest, and dry. They are the major cause of nitrogen runoff — the harmful leakage of nitrogen from fields when it rains — of the type that has created the so-called dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, an ocean area the size of New Jersey that has so little oxygen it can barely support life (via ForeignAffairs.org) Well at least someone is profiting from the destruction - just take a look at the charts of leading fertilizer producers Terra Nitrogen [TNH] and Potash [POT]. It's a lose and lose situation for the environment.

    Granted, to ease the pressure to produce corn, the administration is promoting such biofuels as cellulosic ethanol, which can be made from wood chips, switchgrass and corn-plant parts such as stalks and leaves. But the process of making ethanol from those sources still is still very much in its infancy and not very practical. Biofuels could be made efficiently from a variety of other sources, such as grasses and wood chips, if the government funded the necessary research and development. But in the United States, at least, corn and soybeans have been used as primary inputs for many years thanks in large part to the lobbying efforts of corn and soybean growers and Archer Daniels Midland Company (ADM), the biggest ethanol producer in the U.S. market. ADM owes much of its growth to political connections, especially to key legislators who can earmark special subsidies for its products. Vice President Hubert Humphrey advanced many such measures when he served as a senator from Minnesota. Senator Bob Dole (R-Kans.) advocated tirelessly for the company during his long career. As the conservative critic James Bovard noted over a decade ago, nearly half of ADM's profits have come from products that the U.S. government has either subsidized or protected. - ForeignAffairs.org

    I highly recommend reading the entire article How Biofuels Could Starve the Poor. It really lays out the case against using ethanol (particularly corn based) and how government is protecting inefficient ways of producing ethanol to preserve corporate profits at the risk of the environment and the economy. But what the heck right? After all it would be political suicide to denounce the use of ethanol. Anything for a few votes.

    On a final note, here’s a good piece 20/20 did on the myth of ethanol



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