Thread: You're not getting older, you're getting better

Are there really any surprises there? I just talked to a new (to the local unit) employee yesterday first time. She didn't land her gov job til age 40 due to competing with Gulf 1 vets, last recession, etc etc, was in the temp workforce until then. I was same way-no longterm job nailed until age 32 for very very similar reasons earlier decade (Nam vets for me. Vets deserve the stable decent jobs with benefits, no question- if qual'd, all the same very frustrating for other young people also entering the job market and waiting for years on end in recessions to get their own decent stable jobs-late entry does mean late retirements.

Originally Posted by alevin

Are there really any surprises there? I just talked to a new (to the local unit) employee yesterday first time. She didn't land her gov job til age 40 due to competing with Gulf 1 vets, last recession, etc etc, was in the temp workforce until then. I was same way-no longterm job nailed until age 32 for very very similar reasons earlier decade (Nam vets for me. Vets deserve the stable decent jobs with benefits, no question- if qual'd, all the same very frustrating for other young people also entering the job market and waiting for years on end in recessions to get their own decent stable jobs-late entry does mean late retirements.

To true. I know two people trying to get jobs in the US gov, one is already a fed (looking to advance) and the other is trying to enter. Both use USA Jobs and have been very good at working that system and have scored in the mid to high 90's for a position, but neither have been advance up due to the extra 10 points given to vets just for being vets (not even sure if there is a time qualifier for who is a vet). It is frustrating as they are both very qualified for the position they apply for. I can see that vets deserve a job as well for their service, but all this is tied to a war (and recruiting) that was illegally started through disinformation and fear mongering and I have a hard time with bribing citizens to serve in the military to fight a bad war by promising them a 10 point leg up on fed jobs. Now don't get me wrong. I believe in service to the country (not the corporations) and understand where this enhanced citizenship idea comes from. Anyone who has read Starship Trooper will also understand the idea that a person only become a citizen after some service in the military. There is a huge downside to that idea just in case anyone thinks otherwise.

I don't think this would be that big of a deal in a normal economy, but we are contracting and people are hurting. I have a hard time with the idea that military service is ones only option to becoming homeless (the military doesn't take everyone). So I'm left with feeling grateful to vets for their service, but wondering if giving them a leg up in fed service over other citizens is the right way to reward them for that service.
P.S. I'm from a military family and came very close to signing up. I followed another path.

Seems where i work that the reason we are getting older is that we are not allowed to fill positions when someone retires.....so instead of an infusion of young preofessional we are just asked to do more with less......therefore the youngest civilian where i work is 40's.....when i came on board there were 3 or 4 of ous in our 20's and we are still the youngsters 20 years later.

Originally Posted by CapeChem

Seems where i work that the reason we are getting older is that we are not allowed to fill positions when someone retires.....so instead of an infusion of young preofessional we are just asked to do more with less......therefore the youngest civilian where i work is 40's.....when i came on board there were 3 or 4 of ous in our 20's and we are still the youngsters 20 years later.

Ditto!!

Originally Posted by alevin

She didn't land her gov job due to competing vets

I was same way-no longterm job nailed until age 32 for very very similar reasons earlier decade (Nam vets for me. Vets deserve the stable decent jobs with benefits, no question- if qual'd

We live in an 'imperfect world' and the System has to be flawed because of this.

The most important thing (from my perspective) is if they Qualify

QUALIFY - boils down to what I said in my recent post to Birch. But that can only be measured by someone like Spaf - who not only showed the example of what 'qualified' is but lived it to the Nth degree.

Anyone who proved themself a Veteran on that Level most certainly deserves whatever recognition the Government can provide.

I would say that simply joining the Service (or being in the Service) should not give anyone an advantage... but 'They are Stuck' because it's too hard to distinguish 'the Few' from 'the Many'

Originally Posted by malyla

but neither have been advance up due to the extra 10 points given to vets just for being vets (not even sure if there is a time qualifier for who is a vet).

Same message applies.

I can see that vets deserve a job as well for their service, but all this is tied to a war (and recruiting) that was illegally started through disinformation and fear mongering and I have a hard time with bribing citizens to serve in the military to fight a bad war by promising them a 10 point leg up on fed jobs.

I understand your feelings and I despise all WARS that are BS driven and go on endlessly when they shouldn't have been started to begin with .

But we are talking about 2 different things all together - all this is not tied to any WAR. It is totally and completely tied to anyone that has committed their life ~~ fully and completely ~~ to 'serve their Country with the greatest level of honor and dignity'

AND IF THAT MEANS WAR - THEN SO BE IT.

But it could involve many others things that no one will ever hear about, read about, or know about for years and years to come. Will probably never know about.

So I'm left with feeling grateful to vets for their service, but wondering if giving them a leg up in fed service over other citizens is the right way to reward them for that service.

I have 'that feeling' almost every day ---- but then again I usually try to guage what kind of Soldier they were.

Busted out as an E1
General under other 'than honorable'
and it goes on and on....

P.S. I'm from a military family and came very close to signing up. I followed another path.

It's not for everyone and maybe we make it to easy to fill the spots

Maybe the problem is we don't take enough time to weed out the Garbage ... but often you don't know until you're on the Battleground or being called to fulfill the Mission.

Plus 'we' need you in NASA and not in the 'jungles'

Just some info to consider. The preference (10 pts) applies to all disabled vets, but only retired vets (non-disabled) who served during the wars or conflicts listed in the vetguide get preferental treatment (5 pts). The 10pts can also be given to spouses and widow/widowers of disabled vets (also mothers of disabled vets). Hurts non-military citizens when both a 'war' and recession are occurring at the same time.

http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.asp#2Why

5-Point Preference (TP)
Five points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a veteran who served:

• During a war; or
• During the period April 28, 1952 through July 1, 1955; or
• For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part of which occurred after January 31, 1955, and before October 15, 1976; or
• During the Gulf War from August 2, 1990, through January 2, 1992; or
• For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part of which occurred during the period beginning September 11, 2001, and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or by law as the last day of Operation Iraqi Freedom; or
• In a campaign or expedition for which a campaign medal has been authorized. Any Armed Forces Expeditionary medal or campaign badge, including El Salvador, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Southwest Asia, Somalia, and Haiti, qualifies for preference.

............
Q. Public Law 105-85 of November 18, 1997, contains a provision (section 1102 of Title XI) which accords Veterans' preference to anyone who served on active duty, anywhere in the world, for any length of time between August 2, 1990, and January 2, 1992, provided the person is "otherwise eligible." What does "otherwise eligible" mean, here?
A. It means the person must have been separated from the service under honorable conditions and have served continuously for a minimum of 24 months or the full period for which called or ordered to active duty. For example, someone who enlisted in the Army and was serving on active duty when the Gulf War broke out on Aug 2, 1990, would have to complete a minimum of 24 months service to be eligible for preference. On the other hand a Reservist who was called to active duty for a month and spent all his time at the Pentagon before being released would also be eligible. What the law did was to add an additional paragraph (C) covering Gulf War veterans to 5 U.S.C. 2108(1) (on who is eligible for preference). But, significantly, the law made no other changes to existing law. In particular, it did not change paragraph (4) of section 2108 (the Dual Compensation Act of 1973), which severely restricts preference entitlement for retired officers at the rank of Major and above. When the Dual Compensation Act was under consideration, there was extensive debate in Congress as to who should be entitled to preference. Congress basically compromised by giving preference in appointment to most retired military members (except for "high-ranking officers" who were not considered to need it), but severely limiting preference in RIF for all retired military because they had already served one career and should not have preference in the event of layoffs.
.........
10-Point Compensable Disability Preference (CP)
Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of:

• A veteran who served at any time and who has a compensable service-connected disability rating of at least 10 percent but less than 30 percent.

10-Point 30 Percent Compensable Disability Preference (CPS)
Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a veteran who served at any time and who has a compensable service-connected disability rating of 30 percent or more.
10-Point Disability Preference (XP)
Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of:

• A veteran who served at any time and has a present service-connected disability or is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension from the military or the Department of Veterans Affairs but does not qualify as a CP or CPS; or
• A veteran who received a Purple Heart.

10-Point Derived Preference (XP)
Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of spouses, widows, widowers, or mothers of veterans as described below. This type of preference is usually referred to as "derived preference" because it is based on service of a veteran who is not able to use the preference.
......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans%27_Preference_Act

Veterans' Preference Act

Buster walked into a jewelry store one Friday
evening with a beautiful young gal at his side.

He told the jeweler he was looking for a special ring for his new
girlfriend. The jeweler looked through his stock and brought out a
$5,000 ring. Buster said, 'No, I'd like to see something more
special.'

At that statement, the jeweler went to his special stock and brought
another ring over.. 'Here's a stunning ring at only $40,000' the
jeweler said.

The young lady's eyes sparkled and her whole body trembled with
excitement. (good sign) Buster seeing this said, 'We'll take it.'

The jeweler asked how payment would be made, Buster stated, 'by check. I know you need to make sure my check is good, so I'll write it now and you can call the bank Monday to verify the funds and I'll pick
the ring up Monday afternoon,' he said.

Monday morning,
the jeweler phoned Buster,

'There's no money in your account.'
I know,' said Buster, 'But let me tell you about my weekend!'

Originally Posted by Buster

Buster walked into a jewelry store one Friday
evening with a beautiful young gal at his side.

He told the jeweler he was looking for a special ring for his new
girlfriend. The jeweler looked through his stock and brought out a
$5,000 ring. Buster said, 'No, I'd like to see something more
special.'

At that statement, the jeweler went to his special stock and brought
another ring over.. 'Here's a stunning ring at only $40,000' the
jeweler said.

The young lady's eyes sparkled and her whole body trembled with
excitement. (good sign) Buster seeing this said, 'We'll take it.'

The jeweler asked how payment would be made, Buster stated, 'by check. I know you need to make sure my check is good, so I'll write it now and you can call the bank Monday to verify the funds and I'll pick
the ring up Monday afternoon,' he said.

Monday morning,
the jeweler phoned Buster,

'There's no money in your account.'
I know,' said Buster, 'But let me tell you about my weekend!'

Whoo wah - LMAO

Originally Posted by malyla

Just some info to consider. The preference (10 pts) applies to all disabled vets, but only retired vets (non-disabled) who served during the wars or conflicts listed in the vetguide get preferental treatment (5 pts). The 10pts can also be given to spouses and widow/widowers of disabled vets (also mothers of disabled vets). Hurts non-military citizens when both a 'war' and recession are occurring at the same time.

http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.asp#2Why

5-Point Preference (TP)

Five points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a veteran who served:

• During a war; or
• During the period April 28, 1952 through July 1, 1955; or
• For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part of which occurred after January 31, 1955, and before October 15, 1976; or
• During the Gulf War from August 2, 1990, through January 2, 1992; or
• For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part of which occurred during the period beginning September 11, 2001, and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or by law as the last day of Operation Iraqi Freedom; or
• In a campaign or expedition for which a campaign medal has been authorized. Any Armed Forces Expeditionary medal or campaign badge, including El Salvador, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Southwest Asia, Somalia, and Haiti, qualifies for preference.

............
Q. Public Law 105-85 of November 18, 1997, contains a provision (section 1102 of Title XI) which accords Veterans' preference to anyone who served on active duty, anywhere in the world, for any length of time between August 2, 1990, and January 2, 1992, provided the person is "otherwise eligible." What does "otherwise eligible" mean, here?
A. It means the person must have been separated from the service under honorable conditions and have served continuously for a minimum of 24 months or the full period for which called or ordered to active duty. For example, someone who enlisted in the Army and was serving on active duty when the Gulf War broke out on Aug 2, 1990, would have to complete a minimum of 24 months service to be eligible for preference. On the other hand a Reservist who was called to active duty for a month and spent all his time at the Pentagon before being released would also be eligible. What the law did was to add an additional paragraph (C) covering Gulf War veterans to 5 U.S.C. 2108(1) (on who is eligible for preference). But, significantly, the law made no other changes to existing law. In particular, it did not change paragraph (4) of section 2108 (the Dual Compensation Act of 1973), which severely restricts preference entitlement for retired officers at the rank of Major and above. When the Dual Compensation Act was under consideration, there was extensive debate in Congress as to who should be entitled to preference. Congress basically compromised by giving preference in appointment to most retired military members (except for "high-ranking officers" who were not considered to need it), but severely limiting preference in RIF for all retired military because they had already served one career and should not have preference in the event of layoffs.
.........
10-Point Compensable Disability Preference (CP)

Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of:

• A veteran who served at any time and who has a compensable service-connected disability rating of at least 10 percent but less than 30 percent.

10-Point 30 Percent Compensable Disability Preference (CPS)
Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a veteran who served at any time and who has a compensable service-connected disability rating of 30 percent or more.
10-Point Disability Preference (XP)

Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of:

• A veteran who served at any time and has a present service-connected disability or is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension from the military or the Department of Veterans Affairs but does not qualify as a CP or CPS; or
• A veteran who received a Purple Heart.

10-Point Derived Preference (XP)
Ten points are added to the passing examination score or rating of spouses, widows, widowers, or mothers of veterans as described below. This type of preference is usually referred to as "derived preference" because it is based on service of a veteran who is not able to use the preference.
......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans%27_Preference_Act

Veterans' Preference Act

Malyla,
Obviously I did not know what I was talking about ~ and screwed up saying the stuff I did.

Here it's so easy for me to see 'The Narrow Minded - totally Limited and Confined Views' others may express...... yet 'When it hits home' I do the very same thing

So I guess our own Life Experiences make some subjects extremely deligate .... when in retrospect ... if we see that 'it doesn't have to be'

Anyway - thanks for the clarification