Thread: Georgian/Russian War

"U.S. and European friendship toward Georgia is considered critical to efforts to break Russia's control over export channels for the rich oil and gas resources of the Caspian Sea region. Other former Soviet states are watching the Georgia crisis with a careful eye. Russian officials have in recent months stepped up their rhetoric about possible claims on Crimea, a historically Russian region that is now Ukrainian territory. Ukrainian officials said they might block Russia's Black Sea fleet from returning to its leased naval base in Crimea, after Russian ships began a blockade of Georgia's ports."

http://online.wsj.com/public/us

Just like Iraq. It's all about OIL.

Germany, Opps, I mean Russia, has invades Austria, Opps, I mean Georgia, will our Pres, Chamberlain, opps, I mean Bush enjoys the Olympics. There, I think I got it right?

luv2read,

This conflict is about the future of freedom in Europe. And yes this does involve energy - the use of an alternate route of distribution that is not yet under Russian control. The conflict is also about the independence and future of Georgia - a strong supporter of democracy and an ally of this country. This invasion, which echoes Afghanistan in 1979 and the Prague Spring of 1968, threatens to undermine the stability of the international security system. This conflict is about the values of liberty and democracy - the right of a small country to have self determination and live in freedom without Russian oppression. I surely hope President Bush steps up to the task and provides some substantial support. Obama would already be on his bony knees and McCain would be emptying Germany of all the heavy armor ready to deploy against the possum butt Russians.

Are we going to move our troops out of Iraq or out of Afganastan?

Originally Posted by Birchtree

- the right of a small country to have self determination

So it's OK for the USA to invade and occupy a sovereign country (Iraq)....but it's not OK for Russia to do it. I smell a double standard. Except...it's all about OIL - the great equalizer.

Must you always bring partisan politics into every discussion, Birch? Can we please stay on topic without bringing the election, candidates, etc. into it?

What they really need are missile interceptor technology and bombs that can destroy tanks. We can easily provide those armaments like the patriot systems and support with wart hog planes that are tank killers - I don't think we'll let the Russians appropriate Georgia by force. It goes against all our stated rhetoric and values in support of freedom throughout the world. Go Bush here's your chance to leave a legacy.

Luv2read,

No disrespect but I think you need to read up on the current topic - right now you are demonstrating that you are essentially clueless. The Georgian people freely elected their government and want democracy - no comparison what so ever to the invasion of Iraq. There have been two separatist territories that have been backed by the Russians because they want to go back to totalitarianism and be annexed by Russia. Georgia has done everything possible to bring these two sepratist territories into the main government giving them essentially independence. The conflict is about oppression rather than self determination by a small country to follow its own future. Energy is involved because of the pipeline that supplies Europe and is an alternate distribution route away from control of the Soviets. The Russians always abuse their power. I have to face the fact that most Europeans are simply whimps and would probably not want to endure a cold winter without Russian gas. It'll be up to Poland and the Ukraine to send troops to act as a buffer and then pull in the U.S.

Checking Financial Times on this one, get the European angle:

Russia rejects ceasefire as conflict escalates

By By Roman Olearchyk and Charles Clover in Tbilisi and Catherine Belton and Isabel Gorst in Moscow and Harvey Morris at the United Nations
Published: August 11 2008 18:06 | Last updated: August 11 2008 18:46

Financial Times

Russia defied mounting international pressure and opened a new front in its five-day-old war with Georgia on Monday, sending tanks and troops deeper into the territory of its small southern neighbour.
As the dispute that erupted last week over the pro-Russian separatist enclave of South Ossetia showed little sign of easing, Russia said it had seized a Georgian military base in the west of the country near the border with Abkhazia, a second breakaway republic.



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/95c4df26-6...0779fd18c.html

Russia is doing the same thing USA did for the same reason. Oil.

As I recall, the "reason" given for invading Iraq was for WMD's, not democracy. When they didn't find them, the "reason" for overthrowing a sovereign government (which was not being contested by its people, btw) changed to "free a people and spread democracy."

The people in North and South Ossetia are primarily of an ethnic minority that is neither Russian nor Georgian. The area was split in two when the border was drawn between Russia and Georgia. The Southern Ossetians voted to secede to Russia recently, in order to join North and South again, and the Georgian reaction was unfavorable (the scope of the reaction is in dispute). I would agree that Russia is taking advantage of this and probably has lots of motives to make this one volitile. It's especially bad with Georgia not in NATO yet, and us really busy in Iraq and Afganistan - which is why the Russians were willing to take the risk now, I think.

I agree with both Birch and Luv. It's the Russians pushing their weight around trying to get territory back. And it also is to ensure their power over European oil.