Free at Last, Free at Last......

**The HalfBreed** · 06-25-2009, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Steadygain

Nothing is 100% efficient. Many houses today are more than 100% Effecient - and can actually sell the excess energy to the Power Companies. Not only that but houses can actually be designed to be in 'perfect harmony' with the Planet - an art mainly utilized in China.

Efficiency is based upon input vs output. Now, Nothing can produce 100% output....based on the % of input. SOME form of energy is lost, hence "LESS than 100% efficient". Now, a Photovoltaic cell can produce energy efficiency along the order of 20% up to (I read about) 60%, 30% being the norm at best. The homes you refer to just produce more energy than they consume. For instance, if 25% is the norm for energy conversion, and a home accepts 100 Kilowatts input (photocells), and 25% is converted into Usable energy, the home has 25 Kilowatts at it's disposal, and the photocells have "USED" 75 Kilowatts (75%) due to the conversion process. If that home only required 20 Kilowatts of energy for it's needs, it stands to reason the other 5 KW is "Extra" and can be sent to the energy co. However, looking at the math, that home's Solar cells are only 25% efficient.

Also.....Handballer, I didn't say you would shove your family into an econobox that does 35mph. LOL ! I said it would make good sense for everyday commuting, and such. Although, you could take your family to the movies...I go to movie theaters that are 3-10miles from here, and the max speed limit is 30-35 mph. Under those circumstances, that would be the ideal car....for some. Maybe not you, but, we're talking about "Everyone"....not specifically what YOU would do.

And Viva La Migra........I'm sure most folks that work and live in the city do 65-75 mph on any side street there.

Naturally, one could have MORE than one vehicle.....and BTW, I've seen CA traffic. 10-25 mph may BE considered the norm. LOL !!!

**PessOptimist** · 06-25-2009, 03:35 AM

Let the expirements continue but stop saying they are the one true answer.

You get no free energy, you gotta pay someone. You just move your carbon footprint somewhere else.

Some houses can be above 100% efficiency for a few hours at certain times of the day. I am in the investigative stage of installing rooftop PV to reduce my electricity consumption. Fortunately for me a coworker has installed a PV system at cost of about 50k. I am waiting and watching his results. He still pays an electric bill. He yells at his family about conserving. He has never had a less than zero bill. He figures that with out of pocket expenses after tax rebates (which ain't exactly money in your pocket) he will amorticize this in about 15 years. So, true, sometimes some houses for a while can produce electricity. Show me one that has a net profit over a year. One that has people living in it that use lights, computers, washer, dryers, dishwashers etc. One that the people living in it paid for.

If you go 75 you are obviously not on 405 around LA

**Viva_La_Migra** · 06-25-2009, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by nnuut

Yep I've got a 60 gal 5 HP Air Compressor in my garage. Just a little careful when someone tells me that a car can run on compressed air and generate enough air while driving to continue driving forever. All you have to do is give it one spin and it will go forever!!

I want one, you pay the Air TAX!!

Speaking of compressed air, I wonder how long it will take until someone gets the idea to capture bovine farts and use it in their vehicles. If it's polluting the environment anyway we may as well get some use out of it!

**The HalfBreed** · 06-25-2009, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by PessOptimist

Let the expirements continue but stop saying they are the one true answer.

You get no free energy, you gotta pay someone. You just move your carbon footprint somewhere else.

Some houses can be above 100% efficiency for a few hours at certain times of the day.

I beg to differ......A House CANNOT produce energy. Period.
Energy Producing products CAN produce energy, but; at LESS than 100% efficiency.

I stand by my statements........sorry.

Otherwise, that, in and of itself, would be the Perpetual Motion/Energy machine. One hasn't been created yet. By Man.

**Viva_La_Migra** · 06-25-2009, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by The HalfBreed

I stand by my statements........sorry.

Well, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything!

**Frixxxx** · 06-25-2009, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by The HalfBreed

I beg to differ......A House CANNOT produce energy. Period.
Energy Producing products CAN produce energy, but; at LESS than 100% efficiency.

I stand by my statements........sorry.

Otherwise, that, in and of itself, would be the Perpetual Motion/Energy machine. One hasn't been created yet. By Man.

Halfbreed, you're a "whole" engineer.

Is it 100% efficient or self-sufficient?

Or is my question gasoline on the fire?????

**PessOptimist** · 06-26-2009, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by The HalfBreed

I beg to differ......A House CANNOT produce energy. Period.
Energy Producing products CAN produce energy, but; at LESS than 100% efficiency.

I stand by my statements........sorry.

Otherwise, that, in and of itself, would be the Perpetual Motion/Energy machine. One hasn't been created yet. By Man.

I should have said that some PV systems on some houses can produce more electricity than they are consuming at a certain point in time. That certainly does not make them more than 100% efficient or self sufficient.

You are absolutely correct, nothing produces more energy than it consumes. The good thing about PV, energy wise, is that the sunlight is free (so far) so efficiency of the panel is not really a factor.

My choice of words about efficiency was only considering Kw in vs kW out at a given point in time. Shoulda been more careful knowing theres engineers out there. I work with them every day

And, don't be sorry about standing. I stand by my (edited and qualified) statement.

PO

**The HalfBreed** · 06-26-2009, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by Frixxxx

Halfbreed, you're a "whole" engineer.

Is it 100% efficient or self-sufficient?

Or is my question gasoline on the fire?????

If the system produces as much as, or more than, the home needs for it's requirements, it's Self Sufficient, in that regard....strictly looking at it from an energy standpoint....

The system that Produces the power is not 100% efficient.

Your choice of words in being A "Whole" engineer leaves some interpretation to the imagination, n'est pas ?