Thread: He was NOT Pardoned

It seems to be a common response. Bush supporters can no longer support him by saying that he doesn't lie or that he is a good president, they just start attacking Clinton. I for one consider Clinton's gravest crime to be that he screwed up enough to make a nice bullseye for Bush supporters so that they don't have to deal with their own more serious problem of sponsoring a dimwit who started a war by lying and deceiving the American public..a war that is turning out to be the worst foreign policy decision in the history of the U.S.

Originally Posted by VirginiaBob

If you think releasing sex offenders and murderers out in the streets did not cause any harm or death, you are naive. If you think passing up the chance to get Osama handed to you on a silver platter did not cause any deaths, you are naive. If you think bombing a country to keep the attention off your infidelity caused no deaths, you are naive.

There is plenty of blame to go around...

Congress went along with both presidents Clinton and Bush, no use trying to pretend otherwise. In either case, for congress to try to take refuge in ignorance just makes them pitiful, as it is their job to be informed.

That's why congress has lower approval ratings than the president.

Originally Posted by ayla

It seems to be a common response. Bush supporters can no longer support him by saying that he doesn't lie or that he is a good president, they just start attacking Clinton. I for one consider Clinton's gravest crime to be that he screwed up enough to make a nice bullseye for Bush supporters so that they don't have to deal with their own more serious problem of sponsoring a dimwit who started a war by lying and deceiving the American public..a war that is turning out to be the worst foreign policy decision in the history of the U.S.

Wrong on all counts. Bush supporter? Wrong. Personally, I am more of an issue supporter. I agree with issues, not people. I support some things Bush has done, but disagree with a larger number of other things he has done. I'm really too conservative for Bush. He's a lib. But what I do enjoy doing a lot is exposing hypocrites. And if somebody criticizes Bush for commuting this guy's sentence for this fabricated crime but fully defends Clinton's pardon of 140 felons, I'd say that is a hypocrite. Thanks for making my day!

Originally Posted by VirginiaBob

Wrong on all counts. Bush supporter? Wrong. Personally, I am more of an issue supporter. I agree with issues, not people. I support some things Bush has done, but disagree with a larger number of other things he has done. I'm really too conservative for Bush. He's a lib. But what I do enjoy doing a lot is exposing hypocrites. And if somebody criticizes Bush for commuting this guy's sentence for this fabricated crime but fully defends Clinton's pardon of 140 felons, I'd say that is a hypocrite. Thanks for making my day!

Point to VirginiaBob. True thought.

Originally Posted by VirginiaBob

If you think releasing sex offenders and murderers out in the streets did not cause any harm or death, you are naive.

Clinton pardoned/commuted 396 people. Ronald Reagan granted clemency to 393 convicted criminals. The average number of clemency approvals per administration since Truman is 655. President Bush has only granted 113 petitions for clemency. While Bush was governor, Texas executed 152 people. Bush is tough on criminals, except when they work in the White House. http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/actions_administration.htm

You stated that Clinton released sex offenders and murderers into the streets. That statement appears to be unsupported by the facts.

Bush was in office when 911 happened. Richard Clarke tried, unsuccessfully, for eight months to get someone in the Bush administration to pay attention to Bin Laden and the terrorist threat. Consequently, to lay the whole 911 fiasco at Clinton's feet and absolve Bush of any responsibility ignores the facts. Another instance of this administration's non-accountability policy.

Finally, Republicans, and particularly conservative Republicans, made a huge deal of Clinton's alleged perjury to a grand jury. However, Clinton was not convicted of perjury!

Now, when a conservative Republican is convicted of perjury, the Republicans cry entrapment. How was Libby entrapped? Entrapped by a Republican prosecutor? Didn't he just lie to investigators and the grand jury? Didn't a jury convict him of multiple counts of lying under oath? Didn't the sentence conform to the sentencing guidelines? Shouldn't he be punished? After all, investigations are hard to pursue if the people being questioned can lie with impunity. Of course, if we use stress positions and water boarding....

Originally Posted by VirginiaBob

When your country attacks another, it is good form to show solidarity.

Not, if your country is wrong. I made that mistake during Vietnam. I won't make it again.

Finally, what are the odds that Bush pardons Libby before he leaves office? I'd say about 100:1.

Having read this diatribe, I do have a comment. Clinton pardoned on his way out of office -- a time honored Presidential right. They all do it and W. Bush will do it as well. Libby's pardon should not have been unexpected. Libby was privey to a lot of secrets. Bush doesn't want Libby to write his inevitable book until he gets out of office. I'm sure Vegas has odds on Libby being eventually pardoned and I would not take that bet no matter how favorable the odds.

You guys are all right IMO. Democrat, Republican, or what ever it is the way the game is played. They are all crooks paid by lobbyist to help the highest bidder. I would suggest quit beating each other up and find us a honest politician..........................damn that's a oxymoron. LOL I'm just being cynical.

Originally Posted by FundSurfer

Having read this diatribe...

Diatribe, what do you mean diatribe? Well, I'll, I'll...

Hope you all had a nice holiday!

To paraphrase Show-me's signature: Always remember you're right, just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by FundSurfer

I'm sure Vegas has odds on Libby being eventually pardoned and I would not take that bet no matter how favorable the odds.

Current asking price on the Libby bets according to intrade.com:

Pardon by Dec07 - 20% chance (get 4 to 1 on your money)
Pardon by end of term - 57% chance (less than even money)

I think the President should have stepped in and commuted Paris' sentence. He can't seriously believe that driving on a suspended license (a misdemeanor) is worthy of jail time whereas committing perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to federal agents (4 felony convictions) is not. What was he thinking?

Only got one thing to say....about any president....it's good to have friends in high places.