Virginia Tech Shootings

**Griffin** · 04-17-2007, 03:10 PM

From what I have gathered, a disgruntled boyfriend managed to shoot two kids at Virginia Tech, then proceeded to go on a suicide slaughter a couple hours later resulting in 31 more deaths and an additional 15 wounded. According to the articles I have read, this was accomplished with a couple of handguns.

The human casulty is enormous and I don't want to be callous by discussing the politics of this event, my prayers go out those families. I'm curious as to what you all think about the fact that this was done with handguns.

My personal feeling is that these incidents are extrememly rare and don't justify a society armed to the teeth, but in light of the terrorist threat and the growing gang violence in this country, this presents a real quandry. We have seen that a person who wants to kill lots of people does not really need the time and skills necessary to make a crude bomb. One man (and it's always a young man, DC snipers, Amish school houses etc. in the London bombings, they are young terrorists but the motivation is the same - it's angry young men) with a couple of small weapons can do as much damage as a suicide bomber. I live in a part of the country where gun violence has reached an epic proportions and even in the suburbs, most robberies are committed at gun point. The problem being that once a person commits one murder, they become more inclined "to go out in blaze of glory".

Do we react to this? and how?

**SkyPilot** · 04-17-2007, 03:23 PM

Will prohibiting guns keep criminals or terrorists from having them?

**Spaf** · 04-17-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Griffin

Do we react to this? and how?

Practices and policies are available from the government to mitigate the problem. However, they are on the back burner.

Over 20 years ago I transfered to Oklahoma City//Edmond, Oklahoma.... where a disgruntled post office worker went on a rampage, anyone remember???

Well our agency came out with guidelines for "Violence in the Workplace"! Same, same schools, etc.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/workplaceviolence/index.html

Government wants to know how many violations were given out, not how many lectures were made about violence in the workplace.

(Tongue in cheek) Griffin...Not important to the folks we elected!

PS: Controversial..Yes!

**wv-girl** · 04-17-2007, 05:23 PM

Yes, I remember that. I have family in Edmond and elsewhere in OK. Scary times when kids get their hands on guns. Don't know the answers tho, just say a lot of prayers for the victims.

**Griffin** · 04-17-2007, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by SkyPilot

Will prohibiting guns keep criminals or terrorists from having them?

I don't think so. On the other hand, considering the argument for everyone carrying a gun - if someone is not smart enough to meet the requirements to obtain a gun permit , then I don't want their dumb butt trying to save me either. Also, I fear armed road rage almost as much as the gangs.

Lets say we going to arm a certain percentage of the population (say a target of 5%) that would give a high enough density that someone would likely be armed in any given group if something like this occurrs. Do we arm teachers, lawyers, doctors, military, fireman? etc....men (or women)over the age of 40 with no history of felonies...this is starting to sound like Michael Criteon's single male theory. Is this a reasonable approach?

**Birchtree** · 04-17-2007, 07:01 PM

Texas has a no limit or restriction carry law. This came about because someone drove a truck through a restraunt window and started shooting people. If some one in the restaurant was carrying fewer people would have died. So the criminal element in Texas is very careful when they pull heat because they could be meeting heat in return. Whenever I go to Tampa I always take heat with me - you never know when you may be called upon to save your own life or someone elses. Florida has even changed their laws to be more victim friendly - you can now stand and fight without fear of stupid liberal prosecution. I don't know the full situation in the Virginia shootings but I would surmise that if some of the men had rushed the freak 22 would probably be alive. Instead they all died because of inaction.

**rokid** · 04-17-2007, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Birchtree

Texas has a no limit or restriction carry law. This came about because someone drove a truck through a restraunt window and started shooting people. If some one in the restaurant was carrying fewer people would have died. So the criminal element in Texas is very careful when they pull heat because they could be meeting heat in return. Whenever I go to Tampa I always take heat with me - you never know when you may be called upon to save your own life or someone elses. Florida has even changed their laws to be more victim friendly - you can now stand and fight without fear of stupid liberal prosecution. I don't know the full situation in the Virginia shootings but I would surmise that if some of the men had rushed the freak 22 would probably be alive. Instead they all died because of inaction.

You'll be happy to know you can openly carry a gun in Virginia. You can also get a permit to carry a concealed weapon for $10.

Consequently, Mr. Seung-Hui could have walked into the classrom carrying both guns and no one could have done anything until he opened fire - at least based on Virginia law. Hopefully, VTech has a code of conduct to prevent "packing" in the classroom.

**Spaf** · 04-17-2007, 07:52 PM

What should have been done!

All universities, schools and even day care centers should have an emergency action plan. The plan should cover all recognized emergencies i.e., tornados, fires, violence, etc. Though the law may not specifically require one, as laws are generally minimum and behind times. The hazard is real, we have a history of these incidents that will extend into the future.

Safety laws in Virginia are administered by the state, see http://www.osha.gov/oshdir/va.html

A regulation for an emergency action plan can be found at http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9726

The FBI and OSHA have plenty of documents and readings that cover workplace violence.

The initial warning goes to a trained duty person, who activates the plan.

Was the plan in Virginia any good..No it wasn't.

Question: If a tornado is approaching your home. Do you dial 911 first?

**SkyPilot** · 04-17-2007, 08:19 PM

Virginia Tech's Emergency Action Plan

http://www.ehss.vt.edu/Programs/OSD/...troduction.htm

**Spaf** · 04-17-2007, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by SkyPilot

Virginia Tech's Emergency Action Plan

http://www.ehss.vt.edu/Programs/OSD/...troduction.htm

That just makes me more suspicious!.........

**VirginiaBob** · 04-17-2007, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by rokid

You'll be happy to know you can openly carry a gun in Virginia. You can also get a permit to carry a concealed weapon for $10.

Consequently, Mr. Seung-Hui could have walked into the classrom carrying both guns and no one could have done anything until he opened fire - at least based on Virginia law. Hopefully, VTech has a code of conduct to prevent "packing" in the classroom.

Since these guns were obtained illegally (the serial numbers were chiseled off), this is all a mute point.

Maybe the reason why this ended in so many deaths is because of the fact that the VT campus is a gun-free zone. Would he have attacked if the whole campus was packing?