Thread: Home Networking (Griffins')

I appreciate the help. I have an extremely busy day ahead of me to clear my desk before I head to California tomorrow morning. Once, I get checked in out there I will get back to you on the network design. You have already touched on every major point/concern I have. You hit the nail on the head with where I am trying to go with this. Basically, I want to recreate exactly what you've done.

I am flexibile about going with cable as opposed to DSL (if the packaging/price is not cost prohibitive). I want to build in the capability/flexibility to go which ever direction becomes popular. I will install at least 2 cat 5 lines per station and install an extra cable run from the basement to the attic in case I ever switch from satellite to cable so I can keep the distribution point in the attic but run the feed in from the basement. I already have satellite, which I am happy with (and I have a considerable amount of money tied up in) so I hesitate to make the switch. My goal is to reduce my total monthly telecom bill without losing the entertainment flexibility and I am willing to lay down some upfront money to make that happen.

Right now I am paying close to $60 for telephone, $80 for satellite and $10 for dial up. Verizon just layed fiber through my neighborhood the last couple of months so I can finally consider going DSL (I'm not sure if Cable is an option yet, it wasn't last year when i first started looking into this).

Obviously, I've got some questions to answer, before moving on with designing the system.

Thanks again.

Should you switch to VOIP, I would recommend Sunrocket as a provider. Their unlimited plan is $200/year and they run regular specials that let you renew for $99/year afterwards. It doesnt get any cheaper than that for the same quality on par with Vonage. Highly recommended.

If anyone is interested in Sunrocket, drop me a PM with your email address. I believe there are incentive programs for new members.

I agree that Sunrocket is a good choice. I've had it for 5 months, good service at a good price. Had little glitches at first, poor quality comunications, but has been great for the last 3 months. They have been upgrading their service lately.
Norman

The learning curve on this one has been steep.....here's an update on to what I have found.

Telecommunications used to be so easy; TV: satellite, cable, antennae...easy; Phone: 2-4 choices, easy; Internet dial-up, cable modem, dsl....easy.

Now with all the bundling of packages and the introduction of VOIP, it makes it very confusing to come up with the right combination that is both cost effective and serves the purpose. I have concluded that VOIP is going to be more difficult to deal with then analog but is much cheaper, there is definitely a trade off if you are dealing with "systems" in your house that are dependant upon your phone (example - monitored security systems, and satellite boxes which use the phone for pay-per view).

Here are the options I explored:

Cable - (I was dealing with Comcast) - They have the "triple play" which is all three for $100.00 a month, until you add on $9 per box, and another $12 a month if you want a DVR/High Def and another $30 a month for premium channels/ an expanded list. For me, that was pushing $169 a month - which gets you VOIP phone unlimited long distance, 3 boxes with one box of digital high def cable w/DVR, and cable modem speeds (2-4 Mbps).

Cavalier Telephone/Satellite Package - This would be unlimited long distance Analog phone, DSL (expected 1.5Mbps) for $55 a month plus satallite for about $75.00 month. Total about $130.00 a month with my existing satellite system (4 boxes through Dishnetwork which includes a DVR and a High Def box which I purchased - each TV is equivalent to full gold/premium digital cable packages).

A combination of seperate DSL providers (approximately $30 a month - (<1Mbps speed), VOIP Phone (example - Sunrocket $20 a month), and my existing satellite which comes out to about $125.00 a month.

Finally - the package I decided to go with: Fiber Optic/VOIP through Verizon with my existing Satellite provider. The Fiber Optic (FIOS) is about $40 a month plus $25 for the VOIP (I could have used any VOIP provider and I had to order the services seperately, but I decided to stick with Verizon so they would be forced to sort out any compatability issues). With the Satellite, I am looking at about $140.00 a month but the Fiber Optic is supposedly faster and cleaner then cable with a steady 5Mbps speed. The thing about this set up is that it is set up to use a single expandable cordless phone with one base. I'm not real thrilled about this because I'm not a fan of wireless anything (for security reasons). However, I will be setting up a hard line internal network eventually (can use your help on this one 350z or whoever has experience) but the system comes with a wireless home network package.

I concluded that: the Cable system is expensive but has the convienience of single billing, the various combination of DSL providers and VOIP services was the least expensive, but you end up with limited DSL speed which is going to effect the quality of your telephone service (a serious issue for my chatterbox wife). Ultimately, I made my decision to go with the Fiber Optic because I seriously see it as the wave of the future, eventually antiquating everything else.

If your contemplating a similar decision, I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Griffin

Finally - the package I decided to go with: Fiber Optic/VOIP through Verizon with my existing Satellite provider. The Fiber Optic (FIOS) is about $40 a month plus $25 for the VOIP (I could have used any VOIP provider and I had to order the services seperately, but I decided to stick with Verizon so they would be forced to sort out any compatability issues). With the Satellite, I am looking at about $140.00 a month but the Fiber Optic is supposedly faster and cleaner then cable with a steady 5Mbps speed. The thing about this set up is that it is set up to use a single expandable cordless phone with one base. I'm not real thrilled about this because I'm not a fan of wireless anything (for security reasons). However, I will be setting up a hard line internal network eventually (can use your help on this one 350z or whoever has experience) but the system comes with a wireless home network package.

Griffin,

You made a excellent choice. If I had the option to get FIOS, I would have done the same. As for Verizon's VOIP cordless phone system, is it all in one box? There should be a J11(telephone output jack) on the VOIP box. The output should be bridged in with the rest of your 4-wire telephone portion of the your 8-wire CAT5s, in the basement. This will allow you to use your existing phones anywhere in the house that has a telephone jack.

As for their wireless home network package, it's not a problem. I'm guessing they gave you a modem with a built-in wireless router? You can either disable the wireless router part completely or use encryption keys and MAC address filtering for security. Both are easy to do. Their modem/router should have atleast one J45 CAT5 that you can hookup to a computer, proxy server, gateway, a switch, etc...

350Z,

It's good to hear your approval, that definitely helps my confidence that I made the right choice. The installers are set to come next week to install the fiber optic line, modem and router. I have not recieved the VOIP system either so I can't give you a definite answer.

Let's assume the VOIP system has a J11 port (I would think it must since the wireless system would have to hook into it), when I suggested putting a hard line system into the VOIP system, the Verizon operator indicated that would create problems due to fragmenting the signal. I thought that was kind of odd, because I don't see that much of a difference between a signal coming out of an expandable wireless base unit and a hardwired network of phone lines. Would all the extra wire create that much distortion?

I definitely need a solution to the hardwire dilemma because of my security system and satellite boxes.

Is there any advantage to using cat5 line for the phone runs? Rather then running cat5 for the phones, I could just use standard 4 wire (is that cat3?) line for those runs and tie it into the existing system. I could then tie all that to a single standard phone plug by running a line from where exterior phone box is currently back inside the house to the VOIP modem. Would that work?

At my work we use Cat5 lines for data and phone and I was using our IT system as a template for building this system, maybe that is overkill and I only need one Cat5 port for the data network.

By the way, how was your trip?

Originally Posted by Griffin

Let's assume the VOIP system has a J11 port (I would think it must since the wireless system would have to hook into it), when I suggested putting a hard line system into the VOIP system, the Verizon operator indicated that would create problems due to fragmenting the signal. I thought that was kind of odd, because I don't see that much of a difference between a signal coming out of an expandable wireless base unit and a hardwired network of phone lines. Would all the extra wire create that much distortion?

No, he doesn't know what he's talking about. You're only going to be using one phone at any one time anyway. In fact, I've used two phones at the same time before, while handing off calls, and I didn't notice any problems.

Is there any advantage to using cat5 line for the phone runs?

Since you are running new wires to each room, you want to run Cat5. As I mentioned in a the past, 1 Cat5 can support both telephone and Lan. 4 wires for telephone and the remaining 4 wires for 100mb Lan. You'll then use dual outlet, phone/Cat5, wall plates. But for Gigabit Lan, you'll need a separate Cat5 because Gigabit Lan uses all 8 wires.

Rather then running cat5 for the phones, I could just use standard 4 wire (is that cat3?) line for those runs and tie it into the existing system. I could then tie all that to a single standard phone plug by running a line from where exterior phone box is currently back inside the house to the VOIP modem. Would that work?

Yes, that would work. You can save some time and money by using the existing telephone wiring. But keep in mind that if you're going to use the exterior phone box, you will essentially be sending the signal from the VOIP outside and then back in to the house to be connected to the existing wiring. This is not really a big deal since the signal from the VOIP will have to go into your security system first and the output(or input) of it gets connected to the exterior box, which is then connected to the existing wiring. But then again, the first thing the bad guys will do is cut that wire in the exterior box.

At my work we use Cat5 lines for data and phone and I was using our IT system as a template for building this system, maybe that is overkill and I only need one Cat5 port for the data network.

If you haven't already, I would suggest you visit Home Depot and take a look at their home infrastructure/network boxes. They have just about everything you need. The punch down blocks for telephone and Cat5 will make you job easier.

By the way, how was your trip?

I'm actually still in OKC. It seems like there's a tornado with every storm and the streets get flooded when ever it rains. I've only been able to play golf twice but it was enjoyable both times. Other than that, I can't wait to get back home.

I just wired our place before I put up sheetrock and went ahead and ran
CAT6 cable everywhere. You never know what's going to happen in the
future and running wire now is easier and cheaper than doing it later.
Don't forget to wire for outside security, future appliances, thermostats, etc.
Check out Monoprice.com for cables.

350Z,

Thanks again. That is a part of the country I don't get to. I was stationed in Fort Leonard Wood MO, all the locals had tornado stories and the local news covered the tornado events through Kansas and Oklahoma. I vaguely recall being very suprised by the frequency of them. Fort Lost-In-The-Woods had a nice golf course or so it appeared when we were circling it for the third time on our morning runs...never actually got to play it. I was happy to leave when my time came, but I have always found that you can have fun anywhere, if you got a good crew. I hope your trip gets better.

I will run cat5e for the phone lines and abandon what I can and run cat 6 (thanks Paul) for the network. I think I can get to the phone lines before they get out of the house (I'll probably leave what's left of the exterior phone in place as a decoy).

I guess the next step is to pick up a server. You mentioned that you are using a windows 2000 advance server. Is that "advance server" software running off a windows 2000 platform, or is it a seperate operating system?

Originally Posted by Griffin

I guess the next step is to pick up a server. You mentioned that you are using a windows 2000 advance server. Is that "advance server" software running off a windows 2000 platform, or is it a seperate operating system?

The Windows 2000 "advance server" is the operating system. It has many built-in server programs such as DNS and DHCP. You don't need a lot of horse power for this, unless you're planning on running a game server or web server. I'm currently running it on a P3 733mhz with 1 GB of ram. You'll probably want expansion capability for lots of harddrives and most motherboards now include support for RAID.

If you want to run a network like mine, you'll also need a Linux server to run the proxy server program and firewall program. I would recommend atleast a 1.2Ghz(with 1 GB ram) machine. Most computers today are overkills for most home network servers. Do you have a Fry's electronic in your area?

I hope you weren't thinking about going to the store and buying a "server". That's going to cost you a lot of money.

I realized I needed to get smarter about this whole process so I did a little research (I worked all weekend again so let me stress "little").

I need to compare the cost/benefits of a client/server network to a peer-to-peer network using Windows XP home (which I already own).

It seems to me, I would be looking at close to $1000 for a windows server license and a desktop to run it on. Does that sound right? I could use a keyboard port selector to save on the monitor/peripherals.

Alternatively, I could go with a peer to peer (P2P) system with windows XP. I would loose security going that route, but by using the administrator/user accounts available on XP, wouldn't I be able to set my internet security levels to max for a non-password protected general purpose account. From what I have gathered, you can share printers and scanners on a P2P network.

This is probably a ridiculous question but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask (I hope) What do I really gain by using a client/server network over a P2P system?