Thread: Stimulus Package

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Re: The Visa Spicket

Politics is a moot point, a disclaimer, a way to point the finger. Guys, no form of politics could ever fix the world we've created.

When I mentioned the Visa's I don't mean simple Mexican border crossing Visa's that enable a worker to do blue collar labor on a field all day. It's going to happen, there's pressure everywhere already to open up immigration quotas to engineers from India and China. I'm talking engineers who are ready and waiting for the papers so they can contribute to things that will make a long term difference to the US in areas such energy independence.

As for the cheap labor, hey it's the world we created. Demographically, we're a dieing nation. When the baby boom generation became the yuppy generation- wining and dining on wall street and jumping for joy in the artificial wealth created from both the tech and housing bubbles- what was the point in having kids? Just party, be wealthy, spend, keep up with the Joneses and you'll be able to retire and live a life in Shangri La in 20 years.... So now we have had a second triple waterfall CRASH in 10 years in the markets just in time for the biggest generation in history to go into retirement. Now that wealth has been wiped off the board in multiple aspects- everyone, including corporations, will continue reverting to the mean in finding ways to cut back on spending. Health care is an enormous burden on the US economy, why pay a US Citizen when you can hire some foreign national thru NAFTA and not have to worry about paying benefits? Better yet, they slack off- Goodbye. Fired. Try firing a US citizen who's a member of a union- forget about it.

I go past the local high school and kids are outside talking on cellphones. Who can they be talking to, their friends on the other side of the school? Who do you think is going to be more productive in 10 years- that foreign national fighting his way to get to the US or the US Citizen who's more concerned about seding text messages about last night's episode of American Idol?

This post has nothing to do with politics, it's simply a fact of life that people continue to turn the other cheek to and take for granted. The world we've created is similar to that of a giant ponzi scheme. There is not enough money flowing in to support the spending in the years ahead. Some day it's all going to come to a head and blow, but it's probably going to be later in my life or my kid's lives. Just like the hedge funds that based their investment models on the housing market going up forever, our government and our pension funds have based their models for future cash flow on the idea that population will continue to grow at the rabid pace of the past. The US had it's population growth bubble with the baby boom generation and is not likely to see another population growth boom like that ever again.

Bulitt - this is fancinating - and very much a subject I've love to explore and elaborate on.

Sorry my friend, I didn't mean to turn it into a 'Political Thing' but only came on for a few minutes and noticed several things Alevin had mentioned that deeply reflected my heart and life in both her comments here and on her thread in regards to her neighbor and her incredible understanding of Mental Illness.

The main thing that caught my attention was CB - and the need to reinforce him. If Birchtree had made a comment like, "Maybe I should just stop proclaiming Bullish sentiments and stop talking altogether" - TRUST ME - I would have responded the same way.

Anyway - I'll come back to this and probably sound like a communist and be perceived as 'anti-American' - BUT reflecting on your amazingly accurate perceptions I think it will be very easy to prove that the USA is largely responsible for what has been created. First in the Mindset that dominates US Mentality (and how this Mindset has spread globally). How the USA works in union with England - Formed the Japanese Economy/German Economy and highly inflenced Europe - and undoubtedly took control of Central and South America and formed the basis for Canada's, India's, and China's Exports and Income. Last but not least - how 'we' bankrupt Russia.

Well 3 complicated admissions just arrived. But my underlying message would not be what has become of our world - but who are we as individuals and how can our life independently respond to the chaos and bring order and harmony?

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Politics is a moot point, a disclaimer, a way to point the finger. Guys, no form of politics could ever fix the world we've created.

Bulitt - I deeply respect you - so just bear with me and think about this.

There are 4 Types of Civilizations (O,I, II, III)

0 - is like a spoiled child, unable to control its self-destructive temper tamtrums and outbursts. Its history is haunted by the brutal sectarian, fundamentalist, nationalist, and racial hatreds of the past. It is still split along deep fracture lines created thousands of years in the past.

I - A Plantary Civilization
Of the transitions - perhaps the most perilous one is the transition from 0 to I.

By the time we have reached (I) - we have achieved a rare political stability. This civilization is necessarily a planetary one. Only a planetary civilization can truely make the decisions that affect the planetary flow of energy and resources.


As time goes on a type I civilization will develop a planetary communication system, a planetary culture, and a planetary economy. There will be instanteous communication linking society, which will tend to gradually ERASE long-standing cultural and national barriers which previously lead to war. The divisions and scars that afflict a type 0 civilization will fade into history with the abundant material wealth and energy resources of a type I society.

So if you limit Civilization to Type 0 - then you are right.

I believe we are capable of Type I (and better).

Type II - Invulnerable to Any Natural Disaster

Type III - Conquering the Galaxy

Taken from Michio Kaku's book Visions (1997) - chapter 15 Towards a Planetary Civilization.

From my perspective I have always believed a Type I Civilization has been possible - since 1997 when I first read this book.

Until Type I is achieved then we will remain in Type 0 - and your message above is the BOTTOM LINE TRUTH.

Geithner's Plan: Loopholes Galore
Here are five ways hedge funds and investment banks may exploit Treasury's toxic-assets plan

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...s+%2B+analysis

It's a little over my head, but I can get the gist of it. The comments are also enlightening.

CB

Interesting video that puts the spending in stimulus package in prespective.



CB

Originally Posted by James48843

How the stimulus plan breaks down







Infrastructure
•$46 billion for transportation projects, including $27 billion for highway and bridge construction and repair; $8.4 billion for mass transit; $8 billion for construction of high-speed railways and $1.3 billion for Amtrak; $4.6 billion for the Army Corps of Engineers; $4 billion for public housing improvements; $6.4 billion for clean- and drinking-water projects; $7 billion to bring broadband Internet service to underserved areas.

twice as much on AMT tax break, business tax breaks, and auto sales tax breaks, as there is on infrastructure spending.

Well, since I personally submitted $2MM worth of highway infrastructure and bridge construction projects to agency higherups a few months ago-(part of an agencywide whirlwind job-creation collection of prioritized proposals-mine was determined to be high priority by local managers) on behalf of state highway department I've been collaborating with over the past 3 years, I was deeply disappointed not to see some of those funds come this direction, but nonetheless they didn't. Here is where those funds apparently went-county by county.

The county I hoped would get something out of the deal, got virtually nothing, despite being one of the most economically depressed counties in the state. Only problem is, it was depressed before the Depression hit, and priority counties were only id'd as those currently being impacted by current economic downfall.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/s...O&SECTION=HOME

7 Months After Stimulus 49 of 50 States Have Lost Jobs
America Now Over 6 Million Jobs Shy of Administration's Projections


http://www.republicans.waysandmeans....umentID=150826

6.1 million job gain by Dec 2010?

Romer: Impact of stimulus will level off

WASHINGTON — A top White House economist says spending from the $787 billion economic stimulus has already had its biggest impact on economic growth and will likely not contribute to significant expansion next year.

Christina Romer, the chair of President Barack Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, said Thursday that the $194 billion already spent gave a jolt to the economy that contributed to growth in the second and third quarters of the year. She told a congressional panel that by the middle of next year, the impact of the stimulus will level off. Romer said spending so far has saved or created 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs but warned that unemployment will remain high, above 9.5 percent, through the end of 2010.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/aptops...y/945027.html#

CB

Originally Posted by CountryBoy

Romer: Impact of stimulus will level off

WASHINGTON — A top White House economist says spending from the $787 billion economic stimulus has already had its biggest impact on economic growth and will likely not contribute to significant expansion next year.

Christina Romer, the chair of President Barack Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, said Thursday that the $194 billion already spent gave a jolt to the economy that contributed to growth in the second and third quarters of the year. She told a congressional panel that by the middle of next year, the impact of the stimulus will level off. Romer said spending so far has saved or created 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs but warned that unemployment will remain high, above 9.5 percent, through the end of 2010.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/aptops...y/945027.html#

CB

I'm usually not very good with numbers..but this article seems defeatist, that if only $194B of the $787B is all that has been spent/used..then the $593B remaining of the balance should make a bigger impression than the $194B has...or am I missing something?

Originally Posted by Buster

I'm usually not very good with numbers..but this article seems defeatist, that if only $194B of the $787B is all that has been spent/used..then the $593B remaining of the balance should make a bigger impression than the $194B has...or am I missing something?

If you missed it I did also. I got the same defeatist feel from her comments also and the numbers are pretty straight forward.