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Thread: Government Motors

  1. #133

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by James48843 View Post
    Sorry- you are correct- I cited Corolla, not Camry.
    Would it kill you to address ME directly when you admit you are wrong and I am right? I extend the same courtesy to you on a semi-regular basis.
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  3. #134

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapper View Post
    I can't comprehend how anyone (anyone in the "generic" sense, not pointing at particular person here or otherwise) in their right mind can complain about a government not focusing on domestic jobs AND suggest that supporting GM was a mistake? See my previous post to James about Ford. We did not bail out the auto manufacturer we bailed out the financial institution that happened to make cars.Do GM workers and affiliated corporations in the US not pay taxes? Workers pay taxes, true. Companies do not -- they collect them and then pass the costs on to you the consumer via the price in the product. That's the way that works. Would that loss of revenue not have an effect on our debt? Revenue has nothing to do with debt, it relates to deficits. You are either deliberately or inadvertently confusing the terms, so the short answer is "no." Would those lost jobs not increase unemployment? Would those lost jobs not impact the housing market? Would those lost jobs not impact additional household spending? morale? etc? You are going a little off topic talking about morale and secondary spending but I see your point. So, if a job is a job is a job, then I might get behind infrastructure spending to put these folks to work, but I just don't like making our manufacturing industry and its companies nothing more than Government Sponsored Entities like Fannie and Freddie -- just something wrong with that in my mind.

    Again, your mileage may vary.
    Which one of you nuts has got any guts? -- Randle P. McMurphy
    ... stupidity will always find a way. -- Nnuut

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  5. #135

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnow View Post
    Would it kill you to address ME directly when you admit you are wrong and I am right? I extend the same courtesy to you on a semi-regular basis.
    Sorry. Yep, I saw Camry and thought Corolla. My mistake. Sorry.


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  7. #136

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Would that loss of revenue not have an effect on our debt? Revenue has nothing to do with debt, it relates to deficits. You are either deliberately or inadvertently confusing the terms, so the short answer is "no."


    Deficits have EVERYTHING to do with debt. If we had tax income equal to government spending outflow, we would have no deficit. If we had no deficit, then we would accumulate no debt.

    If revenues are cut off, as in what happens when U.S. manufacturing disappears and no longer pays taxes, then the revenues of the government are reduced, and the deficit goes up. Deficit goes up, and the debt mounts. Debt mounts, and we all suffer long-term.

    Companies survive, and taxes get paid. Taxes get paid, and the deficit is smaller. And that's better for the debt, and for the country as a whole. No?


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  9. #137

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Would those lost jobs not increase unemployment? Would those lost jobs not impact the housing market? Would those lost jobs not impact additional household spending? morale? etc? You are going a little off topic talking about morale and secondary spending but I see your point. So, if a job is a job is a job, then I might get behind infrastructure spending to put these folks to work, but I just don't like making our manufacturing industry and its companies nothing more than Government Sponsored Entities like Fannie and Freddie -- just something wrong with that in my mind.
    So....you would get behind infratucture spending to help jobs, but not manufacturing spending? If we built roads or dams instead of cars, that would be o.k.? But from your point of view- the fact that there is a product that moves instead of a product that stands still, that's what makes the difference in your book ?


    Just wondering...

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  11. #138

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by James48843 View Post
    Deficits have EVERYTHING to do with debt. If we had tax income equal to government spending outflow, we would have no deficit. If we had no deficit, then we would accumulate no debt.[/B]
    How about we reduce spending instead of asking for more money to spend?
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  13. #139

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by RealMoneyIssues View Post
    How about we reduce spending instead of asking for more money to spend?
    Ok. Sure. Where would you reduce the spending to the point where the budget would balance under current revenues. What would you suggest we cut?

    Not just a little slice here or there, mind you - but what would you cut to make up the entire difference between what we take in, and what goes out, today?

    Personally, I think we need to work at both ends of the problem. But in your suggested world, if all is going to be gained by cuts, what would you cut?

    P.S. here is a chart which shows that revenues have collapsed as a result of the Bush tax cuts, at the same time spending has gone up as a result of two wars:

    GDP.jpg

    Source:

    http://www.thestreet.com/stock-marke...-spending.html
    U.S. GDP vs. Revenue vs. Spending

    Charting the United States’ GDP growth against spending and revenue growth paints a very telling picture; revenue (tax receipts) has collapsed in conjunction with the ‘Bush tax cuts’ and deficit spending has rapidly accelerated in the last three years of Democratic leadership. These numbers suggest that ‘far-left’ and ‘far-right’ ideologies are ripping America apart at the seams.

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  15. #140

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    By the way- government helping ease economic problems of business is not unique to the U.S., or to only in our economic struggles. Governments help their own economies all the time.

    Here is what China is doing right now- to help their suddenly struggling housing markets, and the downturn in Chinese export growth:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204740904577197033941536866.html

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  17. #141

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by James48843 View Post
    Ok. Sure. Where would you reduce the spending to the point where the budget would balance under current revenues. What would you suggest we cut?

    Not just a little slice here or there, mind you - but what would you cut to make up the entire difference between what we take in, and what goes out, today?

    Personally, I think we need to work at both ends of the problem. But in your suggested world, if all is going to be gained by cuts, what would you cut?
    Everything, and we should repeal what ever law allows for base line budgeting. No one should get an automatic increase in their budget unless they can prove they need it.

    Get rid of the IRS and put this in it's place.

    Income x 0.20 = Tax
    send it the the Treasury, done...

    Simple, just not popular.
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  19. #142

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by James48843 View Post
    By the way- government helping ease economic problems of business is not unique to the U.S., or to only in our economic struggles. Governments help their own economies all the time.

    Here is what China is doing right now- to help their suddenly struggling housing markets, and the downturn in Chinese export growth:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204740904577197033941536866.html
    Just cause China limits their citizens (oops, comrades) to one child doesn't make it right... just ask any new born GIRL in China...

    This is the US, please keep it relevant to us...
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  21. #143

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by RealMoneyIssues View Post
    Get rid of the IRS and put this in it's place.

    Income x 0.20 = Tax
    send it the the Treasury, done...

    Simple, just not popular.
    Ok., Fine. IRS budget is $13 billion dollars.

    So we slash the IRS completely and totally, and save $ 13 billion dollars.
    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...235959,00.html

    Of course, we have no one left to go after those who would owe taxes then, now would we. Do you think we'd still be able to achieve high rates of voluntary tax collection if we eliminate the entire IRS?

    $13 billion saved.
    That's a start ,to be sure.

    Here is where it all comes from, and where it all goes:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...l-budget-2012/


    We still have a deficit of $1.1 TRILLION dollars. That means $13 billion cut is less than 1% of the difference.

    Where will you get the other 99% of cuts?

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  23. #144

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    Default Re: Government Motors

    Wow, you can't see the forest for the trees...

    Never mind, I won't let you take me down that rabbit hole. Which, BTW, is why I don't go to your political website... Sorry

    I agree that we disagree

    Have a great day.
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