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Thread: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

  1. #121

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    Quote Originally Posted by McDuck View Post
    They Can Build Them; Why Can't We?
    ...
    When times are good, these American transplants are quite profitable--in fact, they are the greatest earning centers for Toyota and Honda. But it wasn't always this way: A while back, I recall the chief financial officer of Toyota (he later became chief executive) coming to America and telling me: "General Motors makes money manufacturing cars in the U.S. Ford makes money building cars in the U.S. I'm here to find out why we aren't making money building cars in the U.S."

    Toyota solved its problems, while the Detroit automakers collapsed. One reason: the unions.

    .
    I disagree. So easy to blame Unions- when that simply fits your preconceived notions about how things are.

    If you want to know the heart of the problem, take a look at this master's thesis from 1991, which outlined many of the issues:

    http://epi.3cdn.net/30067e5f476cedcaf2_76m6bgb75.pdf

    Transplant companies don't have legacy costs like retirement costs, because, first of all, they haven't been here long enough to have a significant retirement debt load- plus they fire employees routinely just before they qualify for any retirement plan.

    Add to that tax breaks given by states and localities to transplant plants, outright gifts of money by units of government to bring jobs - and the overhead disappears for the transplant companies.

    Add to that the business model that Ford, Chrysler and GM have now adopted- that of having suppliers build the parts at wages 40% to 60% of company employees, and then only become "final assembly" companies, yet have the legacy health care costs and pension costs from a century of being an entire production company (54,000 employees now having to shoulder the burden of 400,000 retirees, for example), and you have a really bad situation to start with.

    It's easy to blame it on the Unions.

    It's simply not true that it would be significantly different cost wise if Unions weren't in place. GM would STILL have significant legacy costs that Toyota and Honda don't have, simply because Toyota and Honda weren't here building cars and racking up retirement costs in the 1950s and 1960s. They were still enjoying their American foreign aid --and rebuilding brand new plants and facilities in Japan- aid given to them in large part - by the U.S. taxpayer, to recover their shattered economy after WWII.

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  3. #122

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    Here you go Buster-

    The Chinese are buying Hummer.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/.../us_automakers

    GM to sell Hummer to Chinese company

    By TOM KRISHER and BREE FOWLER, AP Auto Writers Tom Krisher And Bree Fowler, Ap Auto Writers 1 hr 8 mins ago
    DETROIT – General Motors Corp. took a key step toward its downsizing on Tuesday, striking a tentative deal to sell its Hummer brand to a Chinese manufacturer, while also revealing that it has potential buyers for its Saturn and Saab brands.
    China's Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. said Tuesday afternoon that it reached an agreement to acquire the brand from GM for an undisclosed ammount. The Detroit automaker had announced Tuesday morning that it had a memorandum of understanding to sell the brand of rugged SUVs, but it didn't identify the buyer.
    Sichuan Tengzhong deals in road construction, plastics, resins and other industrial products, but Hummer would be its first step into the automotive business.
    GM said the sale will likely save more than 3,000 U.S. jobs in manufacturing, engineering and at various Hummer dealerships. Tengzhong said it will assume GM's existing agreements with Hummer dealers.
    "We will be investing in the Hummer brand and its research and development capabilities, which will allow Hummer to better meet demand for new products such as more fuel-efficient vehicles in the U.S," Chief Executive Yang Yi said in a statement.
    As part of the proposed transaction, Hummer will continue to contract vehicle manufacturing and business services from GM during a transitional period. For example, GM's Shreveport, La., assembly plant would continue to contract to assemble the H3 and H3T through at least 2010, GM said. AM General LLC in Mishawaka, Ind., makes the larger H2 under contract for GM.
    Hummer will keep its existing management team and remain based in the United States, the companies said. Tengzhong said it expects to expand the brand's dealer network worldwide, including to China.
    "GM is close to a sale of its Hummer brand, which is good news for the 3,000 Americans who will be able to keep their jobs, the two American plants that will remain open and the more than 100 Hummer dealers that should be able to stay in business all around the country," White House spokesman Bill Burton said earlier in the day.

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  5. #123

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    So....you know, there was a German Company that was interested in bidding- (here comes the jokes...)

    Bavarian Auto Holdings was interested in doing a joint venture with Volkswagon to buy Hummer.

    The car was going to be called....(get ready for it...)


    the BAH-HUM-BUG.


    But now a Chinese Company - Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery - has signed a deal to buy it.

    No word yet on the new name, but one source said they were considering naming the new entity after the former Chairman of the Communist Party in Vietnam- Ho Chi Mihn.

    So the resulting company would be called....


    HO-HUM.


    (aaaahhhhhrrrgggg)

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  7. #124

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullishreturn View Post
    I disagree. So easy to blame Unions- when that simply fits your preconceived notions about how things are.
    I agree. Let's not forget that management agreed to all Union grievances that became policy.

    What's Wall Street know what it's like to be part in a Union? I bet they wish they had a Union after all the fraud hit the fan.

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  9. #125

    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?


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  11. #126

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    Quote Originally Posted by McDuck View Post

    And you wonder why Chinese car sales are going up?

    Let me give you a hint-

    Take a look at the company website ad for the model being sold on the #1 car company in China- SACI Motors-




    Heck, you don't even need to see the car itself. Just the ad sells it.




    And then look at GM's offering:





    Any questions?

    We're in big, big trouble.


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  13. #127

    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    I do not see what you mean. After all, the American model comes with a swimming pool included!

    http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/album.php?albumid=16
    A few neat looking potential car model pictures.

    For more, look at the following:
    http://delicious.com/wwwtractor/electricar
    Retired 2018:Time is the only non-renewable resource. Knowledge is the only sustainable competitive advantage. 60% C, 20% S & 20% I Fund. https://share.robinhood.com/cliffow

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  15. #128

    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    Quote Originally Posted by James48843 View Post
    And then look at GM's offering:





    Any questions?

    We're in big, big trouble.
    That there's a portable swimmin hole! Does the confederate flag come standard, or is it an option?
    God bless the United States of America!

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  17. #129

    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    I'm not sure what is more the technical marvel: the mobile "swimmin' hole" or that the property has what appears to be running water.

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  19. #130

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    That there is what is called a live well. Load them shiners up boys.

    Just wait til the GM ad for the CA model comes out with Pelosi sittin' up in there wearing one of them thong bikinis. Y'all ever seen a hound dog puke?
    Venison Stew

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  21. #131

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    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    If unions are so bad, why is Ford not involved in this fiasco? Hint, maybe they weren't trying to sell super HEMIs? I think GM and Chrysler's marketing gurus got a flunk on their product line - how can you have a broad line and still not have a nice smaller car? And the design and marketing departments *aren't* the union line guys.

    Product line mistakes are not union mistakes.
    "All the prophets of Doom, Can always find room, In a world full of worry and fear..." - Protest Song, Monty Python

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  23. #132

    Default Re: Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbird View Post
    If unions are so bad, why is Ford not involved in this fiasco? Hint, maybe they weren't trying to sell super HEMIs? I think GM and Chrysler's marketing gurus got a flunk on their product line - how can you have a broad line and still not have a nice smaller car? And the design and marketing departments *aren't* the union line guys.

    Product line mistakes are not union mistakes.
    Agreed. I've ranted previously about a Chevy Cavalier that I was most unfortunate to own for a time. GM just made poor quality cars. Chrysler did the same, though I liked many of their body designs better than Ford or GM.

    I'll never go back to a modern GM car, unless they give me one as my G-ride! I still want to get my hands on a 1978 Trans Am Special Edition, though!
    God bless the United States of America!

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