Not done with Immagration?

[Buster]

This is from CNN news: http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv (http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv)

[nnuut]

This is from CNN news: http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv (http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv)


Buster your link isn't working. I tried to find it on CNN but no luck, try that again, with a good link I can fix it!!:worried:

[Buster]

Hmm..works for me:confused:..It immediately opens Windows Media player for me..

Here it is on Youtube..

hYO6UHUX0no

[Birchtree]

It's working for me - great points.

[nnuut]

Internet Explorer cannot connect with the web site? Vista 64, IE Ver 8, let me check my settings? HHUUMMMM I never have this kind of problem?:worried:

[phil]

Good to see someone taking on the immigration issue. It's been ignored for many many years. The end result has been almost a zero sum game for the economy.

[nnuut]

Who wrote this POS?? What Country are these Legislators from, Mexico? I don't know what's happening to our Country, the Leaders can't lead, what are they thinking? There's NO CURE FOR STUPID!! FIRE THEM ALL!! 7203

[phil]

Don't get upset. The huge interest groups that help to write this legislation are around, and will still be around in 20 years. The fact is that a big chunk of this is written by pro-business groups whose major goal in the past has been to keep wages low.

[JTH]

This is more about pandering to the fastest breeding demographic in the United States. Future "suck on the gov tittie" liberals...

[phil]

Then, I would have thought that the Republican controlled Congress would have taken the initiative and passed a reform act during the past 15 years at some point. Did we also mention that they controlled the Presidency for 8 of those years?

The fact remains that they could have passed any bill they wanted to pass, particularly after 9/11. Instead, they did nothing. In fact, immigration for labor categories increased during that timeframe. Go figure.

The title for this one should have been "Not started with Immigration" because it was a non-starter.

[James48843]

This is more about pandering to the fastest breeding demographic in the United States. Future "suck on the gov tittie" liberals...

This video dates from May 2007. Boehner was criticizing Bush's immigration bill-known at the time as the McCain/Kennedy Bill-- and titled "The Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act" . This has nothing to do with Obama.


It was Senate Bill S. 1033 when it was first proposed in 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_America_and_Orderly_Immigration_Act

The legislation died in the 2007 Congress.

[phil]

This is more about pandering to the fastest breeding demographic in the United States. Future "suck on the gov tittie" liberals...

Actually, the only ones who seem to fit into this category are most of us here. Replace "liberals" with whatever adjective you need. The vast majority of immigrants coming into our country aren't taking our "suck on the gov tittie" gummint jobs, but are gainfully employed in the private sector and paying our salaries.

If the Republicans wanted to halt immigration, they had a window of opportunity of about 10 years to do it. Why didn't they? I actually favor immigration reform, but 10 years of doing nothing except waving the flag and engaging in wasteful foreign adventures really didn't seem to solve anything.

[JTH]

So you're saying the vast majority of immigrants are legal?

[Buster]

I had to laugh, the other day a friend of mine who drives around in his Federal position in a GOV, was telling me that he drove through a housing development that was 90% under construction with new homes going up..and as soon as he drove through, he saw at least a 100 brown skinned individuals scrambling to get out of sight like their asses were on fire....wonder why they were running for?:rolleyes:

[phil]

Unless you're a native American, I'd say that just about everyone in the country is an alien. No, the vast majority of immigrants to the US are not illegal. What's strange here is that no one really knows how much of the work is done today by illegal aliens. In fact, employers who hire illegals don't pay healthcare costs, nor do the aliens pay taxes or social security.


So you're saying the vast majority of immigrants are legal?

[Buster]

Unless you're a native American, I'd say that just about everyone in the country is an alien. No, the vast majority of immigrants to the US are not illegal.
Don't be coy Phil, I think we all know that this country was made up of peoples that came by way of Ellis Island (legally)..I can almost assure you he was speaking of the Rio Grande swimmer type aliens.:rolleyes:

BTW, the so-called Native Americans, were also aliens that crossed over the Ice bridge of the Bering Straits many moons ago...You don't need to be a State Dept employee to know this.

[phil]

I'm the first to agree that something needs to be done about the border. It actually began during the Reagan years when immigration enforcement was both unfunded and ignored.

[JTH]

No, the vast majority of immigrants to the US are not illegal.

I call BS, for one thing DHS puts legal immigrants at 12.6 million (2008) and illegal at 11.6 million (2008) but let's be serious here that's just the ones they know about. If you know you're not supposed to be here are you going to admit it? No you're not because after all you're already breaking the law and don't wish to get deported.

I live in a boarder state just 4 miles from the BP station. I went to school in a predominantly Spanish speaking school, hell my English was even taught in Spanish. Do illegal immigrants use federal state and local services? Do they avoid paying federal and state taxes? Do they live 10-20 in a single house and send most of their money back home therefore not helping the local economy? And those are just the nice one's I'm not even worried about. The drug cartel and breeding gang bangers will kill you without blinking an eye...

Rant off, I've made my peace :cool:

[nnuut]

That's not pretty but true. Who's in charge of our edcuational system?:cool:

[phil]

Wrong-o, buddy. You're only quoting green-card holders vs. estimates of illegal aliens from DHS, and that is only an estimate.
In summary, an estimated 12.6 million LPRs lived in the United States on January 1, 2008. One-half obtained LPR status in 2000 or later; one-quarter became LPRs during 2005-2007.
http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/immigration.shtm

This figure in no way includes the larger number of people who have US citizenship now, including people who immigrated all the way back from the 1930's. Personally, my own forebears only arrived in the 60's to Virginia. That would of course be the 1660's.:laugh:

So, other than native Americans, maybe I see a whole country full of immigrants. Call BS all you want. :cheesy:

Who's boarding in your state?


I call BS, for one thing DHS puts legal immigrants at 12.6 million (2008) and illegal at 11.6 million (2008) but let's be serious here that's just the ones they know about. If you know you're not supposed to be here are you going to admit it? No you're not because after all you're already breaking the law and don't wish to get deported.

I live in a boarder state just 4 miles from the BP station. I went to school in a predominantly Spanish speaking school, hell my English was even taught in Spanish. Do illegal immigrants use federal state and local services? Do they avoid paying federal and state taxes? Do they live 10-20 in a single house and send most of their money back home therefore not helping the local economy? And those are just the nice one's I'm not even worried about. The drug cartel and breeding gang bangers will kill you without blinking an eye...

Rant off, I've made my peace :cool:

[phil]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_en_ot/us_tv_lou_dobbs

I'm actually sad that Lou Dobbs is leaving CNN. I agree with a good deal of what he has had to say about immigration in the US.

[Buster]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_en_ot/us_tv_lou_dobbs

I'm actually sad that Lou Dobbs is leaving CNN. I agree with a good deal of what he has had to say about immigration in the US.


We can only hope he's going to FOX:)

[JTH]

Who's boarding in your state?

We lost one of our own Airman last week. The drug cartel does not care about boarders or laws. They even killed 4 men in broad daylight just outside an elementary school. No shame, these guys need daisy cutters...
http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_13716695

[phil]

So we should probably redeploy all the troops out of Iraq to the border, 7 years ago.

[grandma]

Good to see someone taking on the immigration issue. It's been ignored for many many years. The end result has been almost a zero sum game for the economy.

The fact remains that they could have passed any bill they wanted to pass, particularly after 9/11. Instead, they did nothing. In fact, immigration for labor categories increased during that timeframe. Go figure.

The huge interest groups that help to write this legislation are around, and will still be around in 20 years. The fact is that a big chunk of this is written by pro-business groups whose major goal in the past has been to keep wages low.

I'm the first to agree that something needs to be done about the border. It actually began during the Reagan years when immigration enforcement was both unfunded and ignored.


So we should probably redeploy all the troops out of Iraq to the border, 7 years ago.

I gather that since the last 15 years, I believe you said 15 years, and then the past 8 years Adminstration have caused such undue difficulties with undocumented visitors to the U.S. that the current administration is unable to attend to it? Each post has referenced a past Administration; and each has left the impression that therefore, d/t the past administration causing the problem, that the current one is unable to make even babysteps to rectify it; and because of that, the current administration will not only give in to this undocumented horde, but will also give them the keys to our cars, our houses, along with the passwords to our financial holdings. See the Amnesty Bill as revealed by Dobbs !!!
Why not bring the troops home & deploy at the border? That was suggested quite some time ago, and fell through then - why doesn't the current Administration take it on?
When a reminder of past administrations actions are included with each response, it only serves to make me think `well, why the heck isn't Pres Obama dealing with it now? ..'cuz he can't? No, 'cuz this is the way he wants to leave it, & apparently had planned it this way 18 months ago..."

[phil]

It's quite possible that it will come on the agenda. What is disturbing is that, after 15 years, suddenly this appears to be an issue? When the Republicans came into power with the contract for America, they also made term limits one of their main points.

What happened to that, you ask? Well, it appears to have gone nowhere. But NOW it's being revived all of a sudden, just like the immigration issues.

So, the question remains: What WERE they DOING for the past years in power, if not fulfilling this contract? Were they all asleep?

Yes, I remember now, they were getting us involved in wars. Wait.....that wasn't a part of the contract, was it?

I call BS on the idea of the Republicans even trying to make term limits or immigration an issue now. They had their chance.


I gather that since the last 15 years, I believe you said 15 years, and then the past 8 years Adminstration have caused such undue difficulties with undocumented visitors to the U.S. that the current administration is unable to attend to it? Each post has referenced a past Administration; and each has left the impression that therefore, d/t the past administration causing the problem, that the current one is unable to make even babysteps to rectify it; and because of that, the current administration will not only give in to this undocumented horde, but will also give them the keys to our cars, our houses, along with the passwords to our financial holdings. See the Amnesty Bill as revealed by Dobbs !!!
Why not bring the troops home & deploy at the border? That was suggested quite some time ago, and fell through then - why doesn't the current Administration take it on?
When a reminder of past administrations actions are included with each response, it only serves to make me think `well, why the heck isn't Pres Obama dealing with it now? ..'cuz he can't? No, 'cuz this is the way he wants to leave it, & apparently had planned it this way 18 months ago..."

[phil]

I would be disappointed if he ended up there. He had a lot of independence at CNN, and FOX is just a flack news service.


We can only hope he's going to FOX:)

[grandma]

It's quite possible that it will come on the agenda. .
....I call BS on the idea of the Republicans even trying to make term limits or immigration an issue now. They had their chance.

Okay - I've got it now:
...with the Liberals, the Ultra Liberals in control, what [reform] is quite possible to come on the agenda is what has now been presented via the Amnesty Bill.
...And that the phrase: "They had their chance," is the indicator, then, that since the problem wasn't decisively addressed & followed through before the election, the Sovereignty of these United States, now takes last place in any consideration of citizen rights by Rights of the Ones in control at this time.
You know, I do think I had most of that figured out from the campaign speeches last summer; but it is nice to have it out here in writing!

By the way, since women had to have a special amendment to be allowed to vote, is Congress getting a special amendment written up to allow anyone who is in the U.S. in time to register to vote (if that is still a necessity,) & to cast a vote in whichever school, county, state, fed gov election they are particularly interest in?

[Viva La Migra]

So we should probably redeploy all the troops out of Iraq to the border, 7 years ago.
Can't...Posse Comitatus prevents it.

[JTH]

Nobody here is defending the worthless republican party, but your MSNBC slanted hate is obvious here. The coin has two sides and you've flipped it over, but let's not kid ourselves, it's still the same dirty worn coin passed between the same power hungry hands. I can admire the fact you are the minority here and you're standing up and representing yourself. But if all you've got is this "republicans suck" shtick you're not going to win anyone over with your ideas.

And just for the record I don't want our military actively touring our boarder. What I do want is to give the border patrol the tools they need to effectively do their job even if that means cutting the military's budget.

[Viva La Migra]

It's quite possible that it will come on the agenda. What is disturbing is that, after 15 years, suddenly this appears to be an issue? When the Republicans came into power with the contract for America, they also made term limits one of their main points.

What happened to that, you ask? Well, it appears to have gone nowhere. But NOW it's being revived all of a sudden, just like the immigration issues.

So, the question remains: What WERE they DOING for the past years in power, if not fulfilling this contract? Were they all asleep?

Yes, I remember now, they were getting us involved in wars. Wait.....that wasn't a part of the contract, was it?

I call BS on the idea of the Republicans even trying to make term limits or immigration an issue now. They had their chance.
They did pass a bill in the mid 90s about immigration. It was called the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. It was a good start on eliminating the illegal immigration problem, but it didn't go nearly far enough.

Giving illegals the chance to become citizens isn't going to stop illegal immigration. It will increase it. By the same token, allowing businesses to claim that they didn't know they were hiring illegals and are therefore not culpable for a crime isn't helping either. I say make it illegal to hire illegal immigrants period. Take the word "knowingly" out of the law making it illegal to knowingly hire illegal immigrants, then enforce the law, and illegal immigration will stop. If the business owners and managers face real jail time for hiring illegals, they will be less inclined to do so. Much like business owners and individuals are held accountable for their taxes even if they didn't fill out the forms, they should be held accountable for hiring illegals even if they aren't experts at immigration law.

[grandma]

Can't...Posse Comitatus prevents it.
thank you for the reminder - that was what happened when a certain city called in for the National Guard, wasn't it? That is somewhere here in tsptalk, not sure which thread.
VLM, would `possee comitatus in reverse' be what is happening where the Sheriff has been told he can no longer guard his particular borders, nor confront any suspected illegal crossers?

[alevin]

Grandma, that's what the Border Patrol was created to do. Two different missions. What VLM said.

[WorkFE]

Can't...Posse Comitatus prevents it.

Posse Comitatus does not prevent the military from working the Border if in the eyes of the supreme court it is a national defense issue. Chasing illegal immagrants, drug runners and human smugglers is a law enforcement function where our Military could not be involved do to Posse Comitatus. If you convince them they are invading terrorist it would not apply. Slippery Slope.

[Buster]

I would be disappointed if he ended up there. He had a lot of independence at CNN, and FOX is just a flack news service.
I beg to differ..:cool:

[Viva La Migra]

thank you for the reminder - that was what happened when a certain city called in for the National Guard, wasn't it? That is somewhere here in tsptalk, not sure which thread.
VLM, would `possee comitatus in reverse' be what is happening where the Sheriff has been told he can no longer guard his particular borders, nor confront any suspected illegal crossers?
National Guard is a different matter. If I am not mistaken, the Governor can call out the National Guard in riot and law enforcement situations.

The Sheriff you refer to was working under section 287g of the Immigration & Nationality Act, as amended. This section, by the way, was put in by the Republicans in the law I referenced earlier. I suspect the current administration forcibly withdrew that County's participation in 287g for partisan political purposes.

[Viva La Migra]

Posse Comitatus does not prevent the military from working the Border if in the eyes of the supreme court it is a national defense issue. Chasing illegal immagrants, drug runners and human smugglers is a law enforcement function where our Military could not be involved do to Posse Comitatus. If you convince them they are invading terrorist it would not apply. Slippery Slope.
True, if it was considered a military action, then Posse Comitatus would not apply.

[CountryBoy]

By the way, since women had to have a special amendment to be allowed to vote, is Congress getting a special amendment written up to allow anyone who is in the U.S. in time to register to vote (if that is still a necessity,) & to cast a vote in whichever school, county, state, fed gov election they are particularly interest in?

I got a good laugh outa that one Grandma, :D but it seems law breakers get special compensation now from the soft on crime crowd and most of them seem to be our elected politicians.

And it's nice that we have the responsibility for the illegals staigthen out also.

[Steadygain]

Okay - I've got it now:...

This is for everyone except for Grandma -- cause she's got spunk !!

Perhaps the easiest and most practical solution in dealing with 'Immigration' is:

Open our borders to everyone and call ourselves 'The Melting Pot' ;)

[grandma]

Maybe since we are in the mode of being forced, we could get laws enacted to force voters show documentation that they HAVE voted in their local elections before being allowed to vote in the Nationals? That will make sure that the Ultimate Goal is worked into the American Fabric at the very source of the political field!
And how about all college... regardless of name or branch... all college students with anything above a 3.8 gpa being forced to share part of that point average with several of the 2.5'ers? ...cuz they will have to share whatever income they may get that is based on their excellance anyway... And if they end up also having to share their drafting equipment, their actual drafts - so be it!
Just a thought........:)

[Buster]

This is for everyone except for Grandma -- cause she's got spunk !!

Perhaps the easiest and most practical solution in dealing with 'Immigration' is:

Open our borders to everyone and call ourselves 'The Melting Pot' ;)
Just to enlighten you too Steady

Originally Posted by phil http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?p=239326#post239326)
Unless you're a native American, I'd say that just about everyone in the country is an alien. No, the vast majority of immigrants to the US are not illegal.


Don't be coy Phil, I think we all know that this country was made up of peoples that came by way of Ellis Island (legally)..I can almost assure you he was speaking of the Rio Grande swimmer type aliens.:rolleyes:

BTW, the so-called Native Americans, were also aliens that crossed over the Ice bridge of the Bering Straits many moons ago...You don't need to be a State Dept employee to know this.

[Steadygain]

Just to enlighten you too Steady


Moderators --- if you could delete Buster's Post I'd appreciate it.

I don't want to be associated with )U@$#)@i0i=0d


BTW - Buster -- a Beautiful Ativar ;):D

[Buster]

Moderators --- if you could delete Buster's Post I'd appreciate it.

I don't want to be associated with )U@$#)@i0i=0d


BTW - Buster -- a Beautiful Ativar
:D:D:D:cool:

[phil]

????????


Okay - I've got it now:
...with the Liberals, the Ultra Liberals in control, what [reform] is quite possible to come on the agenda is what has now been presented via the Amnesty Bill.
...And that the phrase: "They had their chance," is the indicator, then, that since the problem wasn't decisively addressed & followed through before the election, the Sovereignty of these United States, now takes last place in any consideration of citizen rights by Rights of the Ones in control at this time.
You know, I do think I had most of that figured out from the campaign speeches last summer; but it is nice to have it out here in writing!

By the way, since women had to have a special amendment to be allowed to vote, is Congress getting a special amendment written up to allow anyone who is in the U.S. in time to register to vote (if that is still a necessity,) & to cast a vote in whichever school, county, state, fed gov election they are particularly interest in?

[phil]

When did a major part of the immigration occur, and when did real enforcement stop? I would say that it was during the economic expansion of the Reagan years, and the lack of enforcement of a lot of the laws. We can pass any law we want, but the real issue still remains the total lack of enforcement of the laws that were passed, and continually changed/grandfathered during the Reagan/Bush years. To lay this on the current administration is a bit absurd.

[phil]

Pravda had the same ideas that Fox has now. Faking video is just rookie league.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091111/ts_ynews/ynews_ts977_4

This is simply attempted propaganda. We really need to look at these "fair and balanced" news services with a jaundiced eye.

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly...it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

- Joseph Goebbels

I beg to differ..:cool:

[Viva La Migra]

Pravda had the same ideas that Fox has now. Faking video is just rookie league.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091111/ts_ynews/ynews_ts977_4

This is simply attempted propaganda. We really need to look at these "fair and balanced" news services with a jaundiced eye.

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly...it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

- Joseph Goebbels
They acknowledged it was an inadvertent mistake. That doesn't make it propaganda. Obama, Pelosi, and Reed stating repeatedly that there are 45 million uninsured people in the United States who need healthcare, when the number is much lower, is a much better example of propaganda.:D

[Viva La Migra]

When did a major part of the immigration occur, and when did real enforcement stop? I would say that it was during the economic expansion of the Reagan years, and the lack of enforcement of a lot of the laws. We can pass any law we want, but the real issue still remains the total lack of enforcement of the laws that were passed, and continually changed/grandfathered during the Reagan/Bush years. To lay this on the current administration is a bit absurd.
Who was in control of the House and Senate during this timeframe? The Democrats. They initiated the first amnesty legislation and the only reason Reagan didn't veto it was because he thought he had an agreement that future illegals would be deported and there would be no future amnesty. The reason illegal immigration increased in the 90s was because of the amnesty legislation! That whole amnesty program was plagued by fraud and the Republican controlled Congress finally let the program die while they were in power.

I do agree with the lack of enforcement. Neither side of the aisle is perfect with regard to the immigration problem. Special interests on both sides make it nearly impossible to get the problem solved.

[phil]

Reagan didn't veto it? He really wasn't afraid to veto anything, so I think he found it acceptable. So then, you're saying that under the Republicans we DIDN'T have 11 million illegals in the US. I guess that they all showed up after February, when President Obama took office.


Who was in control of the House and Senate during this timeframe? The Democrats. They initiated the first amnesty legislation and the only reason Reagan didn't veto it was because he thought he had an agreement that future illegals would be deported and there would be no future amnesty. The reason illegal immigration increased in the 90s was because of the amnesty legislation! That whole amnesty program was plagued by fraud and the Republican controlled Congress finally let the program die while they were in power.

I do agree with the lack of enforcement. Neither side of the aisle is perfect with regard to the immigration problem. Special interests on both sides make it nearly impossible to get the problem solved.

[phil]

They admitted it only because they were caught by.....get this....Comedy Central.

They acknowledged it was an inadvertent mistake. That doesn't make it propaganda. Obama, Pelosi, and Reed stating repeatedly that there are 45 million uninsured people in the United States who need healthcare, when the number is much lower, is a much better example of propaganda.:D

[Steadygain]

OK -- time to shift gears...:rolleyes:

Immigration can only be viewed in a narrow light.

Let's look at it from the bigger picture...:) .... if we strip away all the geopolitical boundries enacted since time began....

.... and everyone viewed themselves as Earthlings then this kind of issue could not exist.

So I'm for the 'Conservatives' -- as they would push every political representative on Earth --- to make us 'Earthlings' :blink:

[Buster]

OK -- time to shift gears...:rolleyes:


So I'm for the 'Conservatives' -- as they would push every political representative on Earth --- to make us 'Earthlings' :blink:
Earthlings yes, if looked at us from Mars...What you have suggested is everyone's worst nightmare in the free democratic world...and that is "Global Socialism"..http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/blackstangs281/Avatars/ekk.gif

[Steadygain]

Earthlings yes, if looked at us from Mars...

Am really not trying to sound like you know who....;)

But surely everyone of us is equally an inhabitant of this planet...

What you have suggested is everyone's worst nightmare in the free democratic world...

Not at all my friend -- I suggesting totally the opposite

and that is "Global Socialism"..

I have a dream -- that all women will no longer be protrayed to sell products by 'sex appeal'

that women around the world will be granted equal rights with men and that our goverments and businesses around the world will not only give them equal opportunity to succeed but that they will be given equal pay and priviledges and that in all manners they will be fairly rewarded for their endeavors....

that the color of our skin... or where we are born ... will no longer be the basis of who has excessive abundance and who has nothing but that all will be given equal opportunity to succeed.

So I am in NO WAY pushing for Global Socialism -- instead I am advocating that those with ambition and drive... that those that are willing to work ... and show themselves approved.... that they be allowed to reap in the benefits ....

and those who do not want to work ... simply do without..

[Viva La Migra]

Reagan didn't veto it? He really wasn't afraid to veto anything, so I think he found it acceptable. So then, you're saying that under the Republicans we DIDN'T have 11 million illegals in the US. I guess that they all showed up after February, when President Obama took office.
Reagan didn't veto the amnesty bill, because he had made a deal with the Democrats as I stated previously. Personally, I think it was a mistake in an otherwise excellent presidency.

Where did you get the idea that I thought the illegals came in after Obama took office? The reason the Republicans passed IIRIRA in 1996 was because of the illegal immigration problem. I thought I was somewhat critical of the Act, because I didn't think it went far enough. The Republicans are only slightly more enforcement minded when it comes to illegal immigration than the Democrats are, but by no means do I think they are perfect on this issue.

[phil]

The huge influx of illegal aliens actually came during the Reagan years. The Federal government simply didn't allot anything to border enforcement. I know this for a fact. It's still largely true.

Okay. I'll buy into the notion that Reagan didn't have the guts to veto a bill.

What I don't like now about the calls on the right for immigration reform is that they've had YEARS to solve the problem. Just like they had years to solve the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's only NOW that they seem to be pushing both.

[grandma]

[QUOTE=phil;239748]
.... they've had YEARS to solve the problem.
Just like they had years to solve the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. QUOTE]
............:)..........

[phil]

To use immigration the immigration issue and the wars now seems highly suspect to me.

They had their chance for a looooong time to do something about it.

[Viva La Migra]

The huge influx of illegal aliens actually came during the Reagan years. The Federal government simply didn't allot anything to border enforcement. I know this for a fact. It's still largely true.

Okay. I'll buy into the notion that Reagan didn't have the guts to veto a bill.

What I don't like now about the calls on the right for immigration reform is that they've had YEARS to solve the problem. Just like they had years to solve the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's only NOW that they seem to be pushing both.
Wrong Phil, a majority of illegal aliens came in AFTER the amnesty bill went into law. Those that were here when that law went into effect, and met the requirements to "adjust their status," became legal permanent residents. The people that came in after 1989, and those that didn't meet the guidelines in the previous amnesty, came in hoping that a new amnesty bill would be passed by Congress.

The problem isn't so much lack of funding of border enforcement, it is a lack of will on the politicians part to conduct enforcement operations. The Democrats don't like us to arrest illegal aliens we encounter within the U.S. and the Republicans don't like us to raid businesses that are suspected of hiring illegal aliens. The only thing they halfway like us to do is get people out of the prison system that are here illegally, or remove legal immigrants that have committed crimes that make them removable. Until the politicians get serious about tackling the illegal immigration problem, there will always be more illegals coming in hoping for another amnesty. We already tried the amnesty route and it failed miserably. We need to lock down the borders, prosecute businesses that hire illegal aliens, and arrest and remove the illegals that are here now. I don't mind an expansion of a guest worker program, but I do oppose granting a "path to citizenship" to people who commit crimes by coming here illegally.

[phil]

Reagan signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. The act made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants, required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status, and granted amnesty to approximately 3 million illegal immigrants who entered the United States prior to January 1, 1982 and had lived in the country continuously. Critics argue that its contention subjecting employers to sanctions were without teeth and that it failed to stem illegal immigration.

Actually, many of these people that were brought in were able to petition for their families that arrived later. This was the beginning of the neverending immigration chain that exists now. Sure, AFTER Reagan made everyone legal....magically they weren't illegal, were they?

[Viva La Migra]

Reagan signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. The act made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants, required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status, and granted amnesty to approximately 3 million illegal immigrants who entered the United States prior to January 1, 1982 and had lived in the country continuously. Critics argue that its contention subjecting employers to sanctions were without teeth and that it failed to stem illegal immigration.

Actually, many of these people that were brought in were able to petition for their families that arrived later. This was the beginning of the neverending immigration chain that exists now. Sure, AFTER Reagan made everyone legal....magically they weren't illegal, were they?
Chain migration is one of many problems with the current law, but you ignore the illegal immigrants that entered AFTER the amnesty legislation went into effect hoping for ANOTHER amnesty! We did it once and it was obviously an abysmal failure! Why would doing another amnesty end up with a different result?

Employer sanctions were without funding, not teeth. The former Immigration and Naturalization Service had the authority to stop the hiring of illegals, but they lacked funding and were pressured politically by BOTH sides of the aisle to back off their enforcement. The other problem was the court's application of the "knowingly" aspect of hiring illegals. If a company manager stated he didn't know the people he hired were illegal, he walked. That is why I advocate taking the word knowingly out of the law and hold employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. It's like taxes. Though you might not know the tax laws, you are held responsible for paying your share of the tax burden. The same should be true for hiring illegals.

[phil]

I know all of this, but until we take up the idea of economic crime, we'll go nowhere. So, where've we been for the last 8 years on this? As I mentioned before, the other side of the aisle had their chance for 8 or more years to do something, but willingly ignored it........until after the last election. Then, suddenly out of the seeming blue, it became an issue.

No, I don't ignore the illegals coming after the amnesty. The first amnesty is what really caused it. So many people knew that they'd be accepted after Reagan let them all in.

Chain migration is one of many problems with the current law, but you ignore the illegal immigrants that entered AFTER the amnesty legislation went into effect hoping for ANOTHER amnesty! We did it once and it was obviously an abysmal failure! Why would doing another amnesty end up with a different result?

Employer sanctions were without funding, not teeth. The former Immigration and Naturalization Service had the authority to stop the hiring of illegals, but they lacked funding and were pressured politically by BOTH sides of the aisle to back off their enforcement. The other problem was the court's application of the "knowingly" aspect of hiring illegals. If a company manager stated he didn't know the people he hired were illegal, he walked. That is why I advocate taking the word knowingly out of the law and hold employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. It's like taxes. Though you might not know the tax laws, you are held responsible for paying your share of the tax burden. The same should be true for hiring illegals.

[alevin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/world/americas/16mexico.html

Wow, not all illegals that are losing their jobs are going back home. The families they were sending money back home to-are instead now sending money to the unemployed illegals here, to help them stay here illegally and outwait the employment situation. Just wow.

[The HalfBreed]

Good to see someone taking on the immigration issue. It's been ignored for many many years. The end result has been almost a zero sum game for the economy.


Not really. The farmers get to hire folks at minimum wage who don't complain, the factories get to hire folks at minimum wage who don't complain, construction gets to hire folks at minimum wage who don't complain, lawn service gets a boost, housing manufacturers get cheap labor, meat packing plants get cheap labor......

IMHO, it's usually the hiring authorities that want cheap labor, thereby increasing their bottom line.....i.e. PROFITS.
Let's look at those who are HIRING them. And, also, why don't they use the mechanism in place to determine if the new hire IS a US Citizen>? WHY is there a major backlash against that by big business???

[phil]

Enforcement mechanisms are crippled for a good reason. Businesses don't want to pay for it. During the Reagan years, the immigration enforcement issue simply wasn't funded at all, and Congress never bothered to see it received any money at all.......no constituency at the time.

[grandma]

President Obama's aunt grants an interview with AP in Boston.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/vidPlayer.aspx?videoId=17797