Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

[ChemEng]

The short answer is no. But I am amazed that a Union autoworker salary is $40/hour. I would venture that places them at least in the top 10% of government salaries and in a much higher percentage when compared to the US average salaries. Insane!

Scott
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The New York Times debunks the claim (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html?_r=1) that the Big Three auto workers earn $73 an hour. That number came from the car companies themselves during union negotiations, writes David Leonhardt.

But it isn't completely accurate. Yes, the companies do spend about $73 for every hour of unionized work, Leonhardt writes. Not all of that goes to the worker's pocket.

Here's how it breaks down:

Cash: All the basics -- wages, overtime and vacation pay -- add up to $40 an hour.

Extras: Health insurance and pension costs total about $15 an hour.

Retiree benefits: These are fixed costs, and the Big Three have a huge pool of retirees out there, Leonhardt writes. They add up to about $15 an hour.

So the true hourly salary for a union worker is about $55. That's about twice what the typical American worker makes. And it's about $10 more than what a nonunionized worker at Honda or Toyota (http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?symbol=TM&ww=1) makes, Leonhardt writes.

"There is good reason to keep GM (http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=gm&getquote=Get+Quote) and Chrysler from collapsing in 2009. (Ford (http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=f&getquote=Get+Quote) is in slightly better shape.) The economy is in the worst recession in a generation. You can think of the Detroit bailout as a relatively cost-effective form of stimulus. It’s often cheaper to keep workers in their jobs than to create new jobs."
But, he adds, the Big Three will have to get smaller to survive.

[McDuck]

> "Last year’s concessions by the United Automobile Workers (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/united_automobile_workers/index.html?inline=nyt-org), which mostly apply to new workers, will not change that anytime soon."

Two-tier employment system are very bad. "Equal pay for equal work !"

[Bullitt]

Chem,

Fear not, the days of overachievement are soon to come to an end. Shoot, $30 an hour, what's that, the equivalent of a GS13's level of pay for us Fed's? And that's average!

I've always wondered why everyone cares so much about the one or two corporate jets and couple hundred CEO bonuses when you've got thousands of guys making fortunes on the line every day. Let's be honest here.

[ChemEng]

I've always wondered why everyone cares so much about the one or two corporate jets and couple hundred CEO bonuses when you've got thousands of guys making fortunes on the line every day.
I would argue your definition of work also. Most of their jobs now are highly automated requiring very little thought or active involvement. My job pays me more when I do more, not the opposite. :)

[nnuut]

$71 includes benefits!!! Many Government workers get more than that including Benefits so be advised If they can do it to them who's next? :cool:

[roskopfm]

I agree with Senate Republicians. There should be no deal unless UAW employees make major concessions such as get their labor & benefits in line with Toyota and other Japanese companies. What also get me laughing is that people dont realize what a true American car is. Toyota's cars as a whole make 58% of the car in the US, much higher than GM. Toyota has one car that is more than 80%. Now which is the American car?

[Silverbird]

Yes, but Toyota, BMW and the others do the bulk of their Research and Development and have their high level execs outside of the U.S., and their execs and specialists make LESS than the US version. Making GM, Chrysler, and Ford Excecutives and high skilled workers (white collar) to take the same concessions as their overseas counterparts (whisper no health benefits and no big executive pay for you!) is ludicrous. However, that's what the line workers are being asked to do. Not asking the white collar, non-union workers in GM, Chrysler and Ford not to take on concessions as well until they reach whatever "competitive" is when the line guys are supposed cut their wages until they are "competitive" (whatever that means) to makes absolutely no sense. The white collars ARE supposed to be the brains of the operation, after all, and the operation of the Big 3 have been missing in the Vision department of late, so if you want to blame the workers, it needs to be Management, Design Engineering, and the other supposedly "smart guys" (in quotes because some are women).

Assembly plants, bah. That's not much for all those concessions those states gave the foreign companies. Meanwhile the home countries of the non-US companies are all too willing to help "their" companies. And what do we do? Lend out $350 billion to the Fairy Money people, as if their new investment ideas were worth saving.

[James48843]

IN the 2007 contract, UAW assembly skilled workers make $28.12 an hour. New hires make $14 an hour. In addition, UAW assembly skilled workers get health insurance, for which they contribute $600 per year (single), or $1,000 per year (family), plus dental and vision. And GM pays $1 per hour towards their 401(k) plan.



Here is a link to the actual contract. http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/gm/gm02.php

They got a .17 cent raise for 2008, are scheduled to get .20 cents more for 2009, .20 cents more for 2010, and .16 cents more in 2011.

New hires get $14. New hires do not get health insurance until they've worked at the company for one year. They get dental coverage, and a vision exam after three years, and full vision coverage after five years. They get a separate 401(k) style retirement plan that GM contributes 6.4% towards, they do not get any defined benefit pension.

For pensions, current GM employees with more than 30 years of service get $66.70 per year employed. For example, an autoworker who worked 35 years would get a monthly pension check of $2334.50. From that, the retiree has to pay $22 a month towards medical insurance, and retirement is taxable. It is a fixed income- doesn't change with inflation like federal pensions do.

Complete UAW contract is here:

http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/gm/index.php

The figure of $73 an hour is thrown around by company MGT and republicans, who say transplant workers get a lot less. That's true. Toyota and Honda don't have many retirees- most have not yet worked 30 years for Toyota and Honda. And both those companies routinely fire employees between 15 and 20 years of service, so that they don't have to pay retirees. Toyota and Honda also have about a third of their workforce identified as "temporary employees", so they don't qualify for any benefits.

Check out the contract for yourself and see who is telling the truth on those numbers.

[Buster]

What Auto CEOs Should Have Said (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/01/at-witz-end-what-auto-ceos-should-have-said/) (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/01/at-witz-end-what-auto-ceos-should-have-said/)
Did it occur to anyone else that those oh-so-painful auto CEO/government hearings should have been the other way around?

Instead of the heads of America's three remaining automakers groveling, begging and enduring live public floggings trying to sell their case for government loans to get them past the global economic crisis and credit freeze that government greed, corruption and incompetence has created, shouldn't they have been vein-popping outraged and angry? Shouldn't they have pointed accusatory fingers at that sorry collection of arrogant, auto-ignorant Senators and Congressmen who got them into this mess and demanded their assistance?

Shouldn't they have looked those pompous public-trough pinheads straight in the face and demanded to know why investment firms, banks and big insurance get hundreds of billions of taxpayer bailout dollars no questions asked while what's left of America's once-mighty manufacturing muscle begs for loans totaling 1/28 of that initial $700 billion Wall Street bailout? Where were the public humiliation hearings and newly viable business plans for those guys?

Here is what I'll bet those long-suffering auto CEOs wanted to say, but couldn't:

"You ignorant morons! How dare you accuse us of building cars nobody wants? We sold 8.5 million vehicles in the US last year and millions more around the world. GM still handily outsells Toyota here, Ford outsells Honda and Nissan, and Chrysler sells more than Nissan and Hyundai combined. H ow many of our new cars have you driven lately? How many quality surveys and plant productivity reports have you reviewed? Have you bothered to check your own EPA's fuel economy ratings?

"Have you paid any attention in the last several years as we've turned our companies upside down, closed dozens of plants, shed hundreds of thousands of hard-working people who did nothing to deserve it, canceled slow-selling models and spent billions of hard-earned dollars redesigning the rest? Are you idiots even aware that we renegotiated our union contracts last year to make our US labor and health-care costs fully competitive by 2010?

"Would you recognize a good business plan if one smacked you upside the head? Have any of you ever run a business, made a business decision or even held a real job? Is there any more dysfunctional organization on the planet, any that more desperately needs a new business plan, than the US Congress? Let's compare our public approval ratings to yours .

"You scold us for using private aircraft? We run global companies flying people, parts and equipment all over the world every day. We use private planes for security and productivity and cost savings over commercial alternatives. If it were not cost effective, we would not do it, and we've been doing a lot less of it lately. Tell us, Ms. Pelosi, how much does that big private 757-200 of yours cost taxpayers to fly you home and back between your tough 3-day weeks?

"For decades, your national energy policy has been summed up by two words: 'cheap gas.' Now you want to punish us for building the big, capable, comfortable vehicles Americans wanted to take advantage of that policy...and for not building millions more smaller, more fuel-efficient cars that, until recently, almost no one wanted, and that we can't make a buck on if we build them here thanks to the high business costs you've imposed upon us through the years.

"You have blocked every avenue of domestic e xploration and construction that could lead to eventual energy independence, preferring instead to pump hundreds of billions of dollars overseas to purchase the energy Americans need, much of it from countries that are not our friends. You have piled billions of dollars of unrecoverable costs on us with excessive taxation, overkill regulation and relentless litigation that our off-shore competitors do not have to bear. Then you have rolled out the red carpet to predatory, low-cost foreign competitors who come here to take our market and pump hundreds of millions more dollars out of this country.

"Is there any other country fortunate enough to have an automotive industry that does not support, protect and nourish it in every possible way? We are the only nation on earth too blind and stupid to recognize and treasure the enormous economic and national security advantages of having its own healthy, prosperous auto industry and manufacturing base.

"Now you have passed an enormously expensive new regulation requiring 40 percent higher corporate average fuel economy in hopes of someday reducing the less than 0.2 percent of global human-sourced CO2 attributable to US light vehicles. That will cost us an estimated $100 billion, and even if you believe that is really worth doing at such a cost, where are we going to get that kind of money? Talk about unfunded mandates!

"With recent resizings and restructurings and our new labor contracts, we were well on our ways to full financial competitiveness and profitability. We could have survived and the sudden $4 gas explosion - not our fault - that shifted buyer demand overnight from larger, more profitable vehicles to small unprofitable ones. We have millions of highly desirable, much more fuel-efficient small cars and engines in the pipeline for 2010 and beyond.

"Then came your mortgage meltdown and fast-frozen credit crisis, which no one in this credit-driven business can survive un aided for long: not us, not our suppliers, not our many thousands of independent dealers, not even our most cash-rich foreign competitors. They, too, are asking their governments for assistance. Will they get it? Of course! No other nation will stand idly by and watch its auto industry die.

"There was no end of election rhetoric about creating new jobs. How about saving several million of the ones we have? Can any of you begin to understand how this industry is a huge, fragile, interdependent house of cards? If GM should fail, or declare Chapter 11, so will most of its 3,690 suppliers, beginning with the 2,000 in the US that operate 4,550 facilities in 46 states. Since most also supply key components to everyone else, that will bring down all of us, including US transplant production. Don't believe us? Ask Toyota.

"Vehicle assembly, engine, transmission and parts plants nationwide will shut down. Have you seen a plant town whose plant has died? It's a jobless ghos t to wn whose out-of-work residents, including owners and employees of the small businesses that depended on plant workers' incomes, can't afford to move because their homes – like their hopes and dreams – are worthless. How many of those communities will be in your states and districts? US dealers of all brands, with no new cars, credit or credit-worthy customers, will drop like flies. Without once lucrative auto advertising, many media will shrink and some will die? The predicted initial loss of 3 million jobs will be just the beginning. Can you spell depression?

"Yes, we have lost a lot of market share. Where did you think all those millions of cars and trucks our foreign competitors import and assemble here in taxpayer-subsidized plants in cheap-labor states would be sold, and out of whose hides did you think they would come?

"Yes, we have made mistakes, some bad products and bad business decisions in the past. And so has every one of our competitors. We are entir ely d ifferent companies today with new leadership and new priorities. We have wide varieties of high quality, high fuel efficiency, highly desirable new products that Americans, as they get to know them, absolutely do want to buy. Why continue to punish us, and the millions of incredibly dedicated, hard-working people at all levels who still depend on us to feed their families, for the sins of our predecessors?

"Why punish the entire country and millions in other countries as well? If you can think of any good reason, we would like to hear it. And don't come back at us with your usual name-calling, finger-pointing, blame-shifting, uninformed opinions, decades-old perceptions and self-serving, grandstanding rhetoric. We have offered our business plans and all the facts behind how we got here and why we need and deserve to survive and prosper for the good of this country and every citizen in it.

"You know full well that this life-threatening position you have put us in to is entirely your fault, not ours, and that our future viability depends completely on you. We're anxiously awaiting your business plan for guiding this country out of the economic morass you have created, beginning with the bridge loans we desperately need."

[nnuut]

Someone is slowly destroying the MIDDLE CLASS!!!
Say MANFACTURING three times!!! Where did it go, who's at fault?
POLITICATIONS, that's who!!!! :nuts:

[eccougar]

I retired from GM over 8 years ago and was making a little over $21.00 per hour. We had full coverage on health benefits and 401k with no matching funds.
When I retired I received over $2200.00 a month pension. Then I starting receiving Social Security and my pension was cut almost in half, reverting to years of service.
I now pay some toward my health coverage, with a yearly deductible, its not near the coverage I had before. Starting in January my wife(postal worker) is getting her own insurance, because under mine we have to pay full doctor office visits and with the deductible and prescriptions.
I naturally drive GM cars and have good success with them. I had a 99 Buick Regal with over 110,000 and 3 years ago, I gave it to my daughter and she is still driving the car.
I now have Buick Lacrosse with almost 40,000 miles on it with no trouble at all, getting over 31 mile per gallon on the road. GM makes a lot of cars that get 30 mile per gallon and their quality is a lot better than in 80's and 90's.
With all the high price electronics built overseas and much more of everything else, I just hate to see the we have to depend on foreign car makers for all our automobiles and see profits keep going back overseas.
I read an article couple weeks ago, stating that with profit sharing the Toyota employees at Georgetown, Ky. make about the same per hour that GM employees make.
As James stated UAW gave a lot of concessions in 2005.

[nnuut]

That my friend is NOT excessive compensation!!!!!:nuts:

[clester]

These CEO's are liars! You can't trust them, congress, or wall street. Don't fall for the mis-information. Thanks to the ones who found the real truth. I never believed in the $73 number.

[jon]

Congress (mostly Repubs) were right to grill the Big 3 about getting lean and mean. They need to quickly cut product lines, plants and even more salary and possibly retirement benefits. Fortunately our govt hasn't figured out how to replace Fed ees wholesale with foreign workers, like car companies can. But consider all the private contractors in Iraq.

Congress completely folded on the $700 bil bailout. Now one of the most inept administrations in history is trying to repeat that blunder with a Kar czar. Well, maybe if we request the foreign aid of a Karzakstan or Pashtun war lord and his tribal executives to enforce radical change, it might succeed. Mabe they could first rewrite the rules for the 700 bil too.

The retail price was not mentioned but look what's coming down the road from China. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7779261.stm

[James48843]

There is a good explanation of what really happened this week.

It's not about lowering costs of labor. Labor really only accounts for about $800 to $1,000 of the price of a new car, and cutting a few dollars off that is going to make the difference between success and failure of the car companies. It's a lot more than that. Republicans are the party intent on lowering the wages and benefits of the American worker, plain and simple; and most importantly, Republicans want to break American organized labor. They see organized labor as a roadblock to their power- and that is what republicans are all about- gaining and holding power.

This is simply all about breaking organized labor. This explains it:


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[James48843]

Here is UAW's press conference from Friday:

Part 1

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Part 2


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Part 3

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Part 4

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Part 5


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[McDuck]

Autoworker wage and benefit differences

By The Associated Press – 2 days ago

Hourly wages for United Auto Workers laborers at General Motors Corp. factories actually are almost equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.
The difference is in benefits, with the unionized factories having far higher costs.

GM says its total hourly labor costs are now $69 including wages, pensions and health care for active workers, plus the pension and health care costs of more than 432,000 retirees and spouses. Toyota says its total costs are around $48. The Japanese automaker has far fewer retirees and its pension and health care benefits are not as rich as those paid to UAW workers.

The UAW has not been able to organize workers at a Toyota plant in this country; it does represent workers at one joint GM-Toyota plant in Fremont, Calif.

[McDuck]

Autoworker wage and benefit differences

By The Associated Press – 2 days ago

Hourly wages for United Auto Workers laborers at General Motors Corp. factories actually are almost equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.
The difference is in benefits, with the unionized factories having far higher costs.

GM says its total hourly labor costs are now $69 including wages, pensions and health care for active workers, plus the pension and health care costs of more than 432,000 retirees and spouses. Toyota says its total costs are around $48. The Japanese automaker has far fewer retirees and its pension and health care benefits are not as rich as those paid to UAW workers.

The UAW has not been able to organize workers at a Toyota plant in this country; it does represent workers at one joint GM-Toyota plant in Fremont, Calif.

If Toyota pays their workers $30 and GM pays its union workers $29, why are the GM worker paying dues to the union-bosses? huh?

[James48843]

Congress (mostly Repubs) were right to grill the Big 3 about getting lean and mean. They need to quickly cut product lines, plants and even more salary and possibly retirement benefits.

They HAVE been getting lean and mean, cutting product lines, plants, and workers. Lots of workers have been cut over the last few years. This year, for example, GM employs 73,000 UAW workers. That's down from 102,000 in 2005, and 123,000 in 2000.

[McDuck]

http://view.atdmt.com/CLH/view/125512736/direct/01/http://images.clickability.com/partners/3000/mainLogo.gif (http://www.cnn.com/)
What makes a car American?

By Ashley Fantz
CNN

(CNN) -- With the top U.S. automakers in economic survival mode, "Buy American" is a frequent cry among those trying to save jobs at home.
But buying a car to benefit the U.S. economy has become an ambiguous, complicated challenge.

"How you define an American car is one of the great conundrums of this world," said Dutch Mandel, the editor and associate publisher of AutoWeek.
Fewer than half of the parts on some Big Three vehicles are made in the U.S.

Looking at a Ford Fusion? It is assembled in Mexico. The Chrysler 300C is assembled in Canada, but its transmission is from Indiana; the brand's V-8 engine is made in Mexico. Engines in the Chevrolet Equinox sport utility vehicle are from China.

On the other hand, Toyota's Camry is comprised 80 percent of parts made in the United States, and 56 percent of Toyota's vehicles sold in the U.S. also are made here, according to Toyota spokeswoman Sona Iliffe-Moon. The Toyota Sienna and Tundra also have 80 percent of their parts manufactured in the U.S.

"When you have manufacturers from around the world building cars (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Cars_and_Car_Design) in the U.S. with 85 percent domestic content -- engine, transmission, assembly -- is that an American car?" Mandel asked. Or, he asks, is it considered foreign because the profits go back to a foreign country?

"It's truly a global industry," said Thomas Klier, a Chicago, Illinois, economist who co-authored "Who Really Made Your Car?" an encyclopedic analysis of the auto industry melting pot.

"When you think of buying American, you should focus on three points -- its engine, transmission and where it was assembled," Klier said.
To get that information, read a vehicle's window sticker. U.S. automakers are legally required to detail the origin of a car's parts and its final assembly point.

"Unfortunately, there are few people who know about the sticker or even bother to look at it," said Bernard Swiecki, a senior project manager at the nonprofit Center for Automotive Research in Michigan, which follows trends in the industry.

The sticker's details were news to Douglas Sullivan, 43, a truck driver from Snellville, Georgia. Though he prefers foreign brands, believing them to be of higher quality, he said he used to favor U.S. brands because he wanted to support American workers.

"I wanted to keep the jobs right here," Sullivan said.

Swiecki said many people think about image of a brand, rather than the way that brand has evolved over decades as the market has grown more diverse and competitive.

"They will think, 'I'm buying a GM, I'm getting an American car,' " Swiecki said.

Foreign car manufacturers generate billions of dollars in jobs and community infrastructure in the U.S., but there is a difference between Detroit's economic footprint and that of its foreign rivals.

The Center for Automotive Research says Detroit's Big Three employed almost 240,000 people in the U.S. at the end of 2007. Foreign makers had about 113,00 U.S. employees at the time.

The key difference in how the Big Three and foreign brands support jobs in the U.S. comes outside the factories, according to a 2006 study by the Level Field Institute, a group formed by Big Three retirees in Washington.

"What's driving the difference in jobs ... is investment in research, design, engineering and management," Level Field President Jim Doyle said in a statement on the 2006 study.

The Center for Automotive Research said the Big Three had 24,000 engineers on U.S. payrolls in 2007. The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association said its member companies had 3,500 U.S. research and development employees in 2007.

Level Field found that every 1,000 vehicles sold by Detroit's Big Three in the U.S. support more than twice as many jobs as 1,000 vehicles sold by foreign nameplates.

Most Americans consumers understand that the industry is global, Swiecki said, and they are more savvy than ever in purchasing vehicles.

"For the most part, gone are the days of people going to a car lot and paying a buck to take a swing of a hammer at a foreign-made car," Swiecki said.

But there are exceptions.

A Savannah, Georgia, Ford dealer sold 15 cars last weekend after he ran a radio ad blaming Japan for Detroit's financial funk.

While 15 was substantially better than weekends before the ad, dealer O.C. Welch said, it was still about half of the business he did a year ago.

"All you people that buy all your Toyotas and send that money to Japan, you know, when you don't have a job to make your Toyota car payment, don't come crying to me," Welch says in the ad. "All those cars are rice ready. They're not road ready."

Sullivan, who was at an Atlanta, Georgia, dealership Thursday to pick up
his American brand minivan from the service department, said he has had a different experience.

He said the vehicle has given him trouble, and whenever he replaces it, he'll probably go with a foreign brand, regardless of whether any of the parts were made in the United States.

"What I look for is good gas mileage, and when I pay it off in four or five years, it's still running," said Sullivan, who has owned several American and foreign brands. "It seems I get better quality with a foreign car."


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/american.cars

[James48843]

If Toyota pays their workers $30 and GM pays its union workers $29, why are the GM worker paying dues to the union-bosses? huh?

Because GM also pays for the retirement benefits of 419,621 retired members and 120,723 surviving spouses.

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

The reason Toyota is paying their workers $30 an hour is to prevent them from trying to organize labor unions in their plants.

Tell me straight up- if GM was paying $10 an hour, do you think Toyota would be paying $30 an hour?

Think about that for a minute before answering...

[McDuck]

http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/forbes_logo_blue.gif

How Unions Stop The Cars

Shikha Dalmia 12.12.08, 3:20 PM ET

With the late-night demise of legislation containing $14 billion in emergency loans to Detroit's automakers, pressure is once again mounting on President Bush to step in. And he is reportedly thinking of doing just that.

But the very thing that doomed this legislation will also doom any effort to rescue the industry: union intransigence. If Bush cares more about taxpayers than kudos, he should decline.

The legislation, backed by Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican whose state itself is home to GM facilities, was the industry's best hope to return to health. It stripped some of the green baggage of the House bill that would have consigned Detroit to producing not cars that sell but what eco-warriors want. Nor would the legislation have handed quite as expansive powers of micromanagement to a car czar, forcing companies to obtain approval for basic product and capacity decisions.

Instead, it offered the automakers a way to restructure their massive obligations to labor and debtors, much like a bankruptcy court would do but without the stigma. Bondholders would have been required to accept a 70% loss--the remainder paid in stock, not cash. And Big Labor's main concession (besides accepting some stock instead of cash for its health care trust fund) was that it set a definite date for a pay cut next year.

At that time, its wages and benefits would fall in line with those that Nissan, Toyota and other automakers pay their U.S. workers.

But the United Auto Workers reacted as if it had been asked to work in a Third World sweat shop and walked away. Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., decried efforts to "sock it" to American workers. Never mind that labor costs make every car rolling out of Detroit $1,500 more expensive to produce than foreign cars made elsewhere in the U.S. Indeed, last year, GM and Toyota sold the same number of cars worldwide, but Toyota turned a healthy profit--while GM posted a $40 billion loss.

But the fact of the matter is that the wage cuts are a necessary condition to give Detroit a fighting chance for survival, but they're not sufficient. Indeed, that would require far more from unions.

Car sales next year are expected to drop 40%. This means that if auto companies are going to use any bailout money to restore viability, they will have to be able to shed some of its quarter-million-strong workforce.

However, if the UAW was unwilling to accept a pay cut, there is no reason to believe that it would compliantly accept such massive layoffs. More likely, it will use taxpayer money to keep every job alive as long as possible--and then return for more a few months later.

Beyond job cuts, the UAW will also have to agree to eliminate a whole host of exceedingly rigid work rules for its remaining constituents. Such rules, for instance, had historically made it difficult to train auto workers for multiple jobs to fulfill multiple needs. No less than labor's extravagant wage demands, these rules have crimped Detroit's adaptability.

Ford recently built a facility in Brazil where it can produce five different vehicle platforms at the same time, on the same line. What's more, many of its suppliers are housed in the facility as well, something that allows them to move parts to the assembly line at a moment's notice. Not only has this lowered Ford's production costs and boosted productivity, it has also given it flexibility to adjust its product mix to shifting market conditions. This is important at any time but is especially crucial now, when volatile oil prices are likely to produce abrupt shifts in consumer demand.

But union rules, with their featherbedding requirements and crabbed job descriptions, make it much harder for such a factory-of-the-future to operate in the U.S.

The irony is that foreign car makers are profitable in America--and the Detroit Three are profitable in every country but America. Only Big Labor can position Detroit carmakers for success in their own country. Bush shouldn't ask already-strapped taxpayers to make sacrifices to pull Detroit back from the precipice when its own key stakeholder won't.

Shikha Dalmia is a senior analyst at the Los Angeles-based Reason Foundation.

[McDuck]

Because GM also pays for the retirement benefits of 419,621 retired members and 120,723 surviving spouses.


Let those people pay for all the Union Bo$$e$. They are the ones getting the gold-plated benefits.

[McDuck]

Tell me straight up-

Jimbo,

Other than a single letter from NTEU, did the union fat-cats do anything to try to prevent the IFT limitations put on us? Did they?

The union bosses take care of themselves and punish the workers. Being a union bo$$ is where the real money is now days. That's is why Obama's Chicago friend wanted to become one by selling the Senate seat.

[McDuck]

This year, for example, GM employs 73,000 UAW workers. That's down from 102,000 in 2005, and 123,000 in 2000.

Those 50,000 people got paid 95% of their salary for doing nothing being in the "job bank". And the UAW fatcats got their cut.

Like they say in Obamaland (Chicago), cut me in or cut it out.

[James48843]

Those 50,000 people got paid 95% of their salary for doing nothing being in the "job bank". And the UAW fatcats got their cut.

Like they say in Obamaland (Chicago), cut me in or cut it out.

Greg, not so.

What do you know about the job bank? What evidence do you have about UAW "fat cats" getting a cut of anything? You are just plain wrong.

Those 50,000 left, got buyouts or just plain flat out retired. The buyouts ranged from about 20K to about 140K. Many workers simply got a 25K payout and nothing else, after working for 25 years. No pension, no health care, no training opportunity, nothing. Others - particularly white collar salary, got the higher end buyout figures.

None of them are in the job bank- which, by the way, has about 1,000 workers in it now. Job bank was offered up by UAW, but that wasn't enough for Corker. UAW offered to negotiate on wages, but only if Toyota's books were made available to the UAW, and if Republicans would be satisfied if UAW workers made less than Toyota. Republicans refused, insisted that UAW retirees lose their pensions and health care, and killed the deal.

[James48843]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/12/12/why-aig-gets-billions-gm-gets-scorn.html?s_cid=rss:flowchart:why-aig-gets-billions-gm-gets-scorn

AIG gets billions, while GM gets nothing.

[Show-me]

How about no executive should be allowed to make more than the President of the United States, all bonuses or incentive pay are killed, and all other wages frozen until the company is profitable with out taxpayer help. Any further concessions would be based on percentage and distributed across the board to all employees.

[Gumby]

How about no executive should be allowed to make more than the President of the United States, all bonuses or incentive pay are killed, and all other wages frozen until the company is profitable with out taxpayer help. Any further concessions would be based on percentage and distributed across the board to all employees.

Show-me,

You should run for office. Grat idea!:)

[CountryBoy]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/12/12/why-aig-gets-billions-gm-gets-scorn.html?s_cid=rss:flowchart:why-aig-gets-billions-gm-gets-scorn

AIG gets billions, while GM gets nothing.

James,

Neither one should've have gotten anything. If they fail, there is always someone more efficient to step into the vaccuum, if such a vaccuum is really there, because the American people will want the additional product. That's called capitalism, I believe. Supplying someone with a service or product, they want, and making a product. Is it perfect?,,, No, because we having greedy people out there and they should be locked up. But these bailouts gotta stop or we'll continue to mortgage our children's future.

As a personal aside, I'm sick and tired of these bailout rallies. Let the market do it's thing. You screw up, you pay the piper, not get a welfare check from Uncle Sugar, and that's all these bailouts are.. Corporate welfare.

We've got to stop this somewhere. The first state that gets a bailout will officially change us to the United Socialist States of America, because the flood gates will be open. I know my own state of Ohio is very deep in debt, not near as bad as CA or MI, but probably 3rd, but Strickland is standing tall for a Lib and is going to cut services and stop our 5 year tax cut plan. I can live with that. I've had to cut back on my living expenses.

Enough of this.

CB

[McDuck]

What do you know about the job bank?

A.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/10/z1ed10top22745-union-tribune-editorial/?uniontrib

'ludicrous “job bank,” in which 14,000-plus laid-off workers are paid to sit around and do crossword puzzles'

B.

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9514727&nav=menu1362_2
'The job bank would provide laidoff GM workers with an extra two years of pay after the plant closes.'

C.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/folios/dot.gif
Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work

P.S. I'm a due-paying union member and drive a 1993 Chevy everyday !

[McDuck]

Jimbo,

Other than a single letter from NTEU, did the union fat-cats do anything to try to prevent the IFT limitations put on us? Did they?

The union bosses take care of themselves and punish the workers. Being a union bo$$ is where the real money is now days. That's is why Obama's Chicago friend wanted to become one by selling the Senate seat.

Jimbo, Are you going to reply to this ?

[McDuck]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070815/BIZ/708150406

Potter, in his last full year as president of UFCW Local 951, made $305,000.

...

Differences in union hall pay scales are often as glaring as the pay gap between union and non-union shops. Some labor organizations lavish their officers with high salaries and generous benefit packages unavailable to the rank-and-file

...

At most Meijer stores in Michigan, top pay is nearly $20 an hour for a butcher. Most make far less. Meanwhile, Potter has a condo in Grosse Pointe Park and a home on more than seven acres in Grand Haven. He owns four cars, including a Cadillac and a Corvette, according to Michigan Secretary of State records.

...

[McDuck]

Greg, not so.

What evidence do you have about UAW "fat cats" getting a cut of anything? You are just plain wrong.


WHO'S PLAIN WRONG ?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070815/BIZ/708150406

The UFCW's labor bosses are among the highest paid in the United States, with 33 officers making more than $200,000 in base salary in 2006 -- many of whom earned thousands more by drawing additional paychecks from the union's international office. The average UFCW member earns between $25,000 and $30,000 a year, with many at Michigan grocery stores earning less.

...

Ron Gajeski, recording secretary at Utica's Local 400 that has lost 5,000 members since 2001. Gajeski was paid a total of $173,904, including more than $10,000 for expenses.

...

Nearly 700 UAW officers and staff in Michigan alone have a total compensation from the union that exceeds $100,000, according to U.S. Department of Labor data.

[jon]

The last section of the following link posted by James is true yet many will say it is a lie.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/12/12/why-aig-gets-billions-gm-gets-scorn.html?s_cid=rss:flowchart:why-aig-gets-billions-gm-gets-scorn

“Does AIG have unionized workers? Few, if any.
GM has a bunch: 64,000. Ah ha! Maybe that explains it. In fact, Senate Republicans who blocked a $10 billion emergency loan for GM and a $4 billion loan for Chrysler said they wouldn’t approve a Detroit bailout unless the United Auto Workers made much deeper concessions than they’ve already offered, essentially giving up any advantages they have over non-unionized workers in other states.
So here’s one lesson: If you want a government bailout, try to have problems that are too complicated for most people to understand. And make sure your employees are the kind who wear a suit to work every day. Once you’ve satisfied those two requirements, ask for as much as you want: The coffers are open.”

Show-me’s comments on limiting exec compensation is a critical problem in the discussion about America becoming a more mean society further pitting the super rich skillfully manipulating wealth and health from the middle class and poor. As for socialism in America or neo- Fascism, we’ve been there for a long time with outrageous welfare for the wealthy, while they pass social costs of pollution, financial engineering mistakes and wars of pride and greed to the middle class and poor.

[Show-me]

IMO, AIG bailout was about paying off foreign lenders and investors or they were going to punish the U.S. by selling off our bonds and/or not buying any more.

[James48843]

A.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/10/z1ed10top22745-union-tribune-editorial/?uniontrib

'ludicrous “job bank,” in which 14,000-plus laid-off workers are paid to sit around and do crossword puzzles'

B.

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9514727&nav=menu1362_2
'The job bank would provide laidoff GM workers with an extra two years of pay after the plant closes.'

C.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/folios/dot.gif
Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work

P.S. I'm a due-paying union member and drive a 1993 Chevy everyday !


Here are the facts today. There are NOT 14,000 people in the jobs bank-
Currently, Chrysler has 711 workers in the jobs bank, GM has 1,404 and Ford has 1,476.

"It's not gone yet but it's almost gone," Gettelfinger said. "We're on the verge of eliminating that provision." And new language in the 2007 contract stripped it to a "mere shadow of what it used to be."



Source:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081121/AUTO01/811210418/1148


What you seem to be rallying against, are programs that no longer exist as they did three or five years ago. The UAW has ALREADY terminated, compromised, or eliminated most of the things you seem to want them to give up now.

That's the whole point. The 2007 contract did away with most of those things- tens of thousands have already lost jobs, and the downsizing and transformation has already taken place.

[James48843]

A.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/10/z1ed10top22745-union-tribune-editorial/?uniontrib

'ludicrous “job bank,” in which 14,000-plus laid-off workers are paid to sit around and do crossword puzzles'
That job bank ended in the 2005 contract and no longer exists.

Next?


B.

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9514727&nav=menu1362_2
'The job bank would provide laidoff GM workers with an extra two years of pay after the plant closes.'
You didn't print the full quote on that. That article is about Transition Assistance payments- basically 50% of the wage, while you retrain to a different field. The Union has nothing to do with that program- that's a U.S. Dept of Labor program that gives workers 50% of their pay after they lose jobs due to North American Free Trade agreement.

And the full quote was this:
"That's especially important for workers there, since the United Auto Workers offered to eliminate the job bank in order to save the auto industry. The job bank would provide laidoff GM workers with an extra two years of pay after the plant closes."


The point of the quote is that Janesville Wisconsin workers are trying to qualify for Transition Assistance under the NAFTA Transition Assistance Prgram (50% of wages for a short period of time,) which is better than nothing at all, because the UAW offered to eliminate entirely the remaining jobs bank program if that is what would cut the deal for the loan. "That is especially important for the workers there, since the United Auto Workers offered to eliminate the jobs bank in order to save the auto industry."






C.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
http://info.detnews.com/dn/pix/folios/dot.gif
Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work

P.S. I'm a due-paying union member and drive a 1993 Chevy everyday !The 12,000 was how many jobs were cut in 2004, and were in the jobs bank in 2005, the time of that article. Those people are all no longer employed, and no longer in the jobs bank. Today, Chrysler has 711 workers in the jobs bank, GM has 1,404 and Ford has 1,476. Those in the jobs bank get 95% of wages for up to a year, while they try to find other jobs within the big three that come open. During that time, they do not collect unemployment. If a job comes open anywhere in the country, and they turn it down, they lose that jobs bank benefit. And the UAW offered to eliminate the jobs bank, if that is what it would take to close the deal.

I am glad you pay union dues and drive a Chevrolet.

[James48843]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070815/BIZ/708150406

Potter, in his last full year as president of UFCW Local 951, made $305,000.

...

Differences in union hall pay scales are often as glaring as the pay gap between union and non-union shops. Some labor organizations lavish their officers with high salaries and generous benefit packages unavailable to the rank-and-file

...

At most Meijer stores in Michigan, top pay is nearly $20 an hour for a butcher. Most make far less. Meanwhile, Potter has a condo in Grosse Pointe Park and a home on more than seven acres in Grand Haven. He owns four cars, including a Cadillac and a Corvette, according to Michigan Secretary of State records.

...


First, UFCW is not UAW.

Second, what difference does it make to you how much the Union leader makes? It doesn't come from the company, it comes from the workers dues.

In the case of the UAW, as you pointed out, Ron Gettlefinger made $156,000. To head a Union that has over 73,000 members, 400,000 retirees, and 106,000 surviving spouses. The 73,000 members set the pay of the Union leadership through their committees and a vote of the membership (the workers). The members pay 1.15% of their pay to the Union, and what the Union does with that money- i.e. negotiations, arbitrations, travel, phones, light, heat, and yes, officer pay, all come out of that amount- which has no effect at all on the cost to the companies. Companies don't pay that money, members do.

[James48843]

According to the LM-2 for the UAW, last year the UAW had $323 million in income, and paid it's President - Ron Gettelfinger, just $156,000 in base salary, plus he had some reimbursed expenses, for a total of $163,000 in total compensation.

Source: U.S. Labor Department LM-2, # FILE NUMBER 000-149


Which, by the way- is about on par with those U.S. Senators, and FAR BELOW the Executives of the Auto Industry, and far below the Wall Street people.

[Show-me]

Hardly over paid compaired to others.

[McDuck]

These CEO's are liars! You can't trust them, congress, or wall street. Don't fall for the mis-information.

You can't trust the union bo$$es either. They are only interested in lining their own pockets.

[eccougar]

I guess a postal worker making $25.00 an hour, with matching the first 5% of their 401k contributions, insurance, paid vacations, retirement is making over $70.00 an hour.
I don't think so!
The union offered last week to completely do away with the job bank, which is almost mute considering all the buyouts the last couple of years.
New employees start at $14.00 with little or no benefits, no retirement(GM will contribute 6% into the employee's portable retirement account).

[eccougar]

Maybe the GOP senators don't like unions and are taking care of their home states..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aG_dYqEOhly0&refer=home

[eccougar]

Senator Shelby taking care of business.
http://blog.nola.com/nola/2007/08/katrina_aid_goes_toward_posh_c.html

[McDuck]

Maybe the GOP senators don't like unions and are taking care of their home states..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aG_dYqEOhly0&refer=home


Senator Shelby did not vote for the bank bailout this year nor did he vote for the Chrysler bailout back before there were any foreign auto plants in Alabama. He is no hypocrite.

[ezmoney]

A friend of mine sent me a nice little video of Ford manufacuring plant in Brazil. Full of Robotics, all the managers and workers alike take their lunch breaks together, and swapped ideas. They had their own tanker ships so that when they came of the assembly line they were loaded and shipped. I wish I had saved the video clip or the website it was rather interesting. A really modernized Ford Manufacturing Plant in Brazil and a fragile Ford Manufacturing Plant in Detroit that was no were near the modernized plant in Brazil. The're made in Brazil cheaper and they are trying to bailout Detroit. Talk about our jobs; we have given everything to every country and they all despise us now what? Why do they want more money the big companies along with our own government has put us in this mess? Nice going guys.:mad:

[jon]

Have we given everything to other countries, or is that what our brainwashing government and big business wants average Americans and foreigners to believe? From my limited understanding of our foreign aid and investment strategies, more often than not we are lending money or requiring that the money we "give" be spent for very expensive American contracts on projects that often damage or undermine third world counties development to our benefit, not theirs. That may not always be the case, but often is.

[McDuck]

Jimbo,

Other than a single letter from NTEU, did the union fat-cats do anything to try to prevent the IFT limitations put on us? Did they?

The union bosses take care of themselves and punish the workers. Being a union bo$$ is where the real money is now days. That's is why Obama's Chicago friend wanted to become one by selling the Senate seat.

bump

[roskopfm]

What excessive compensation is retiree health insurance, who (besides government workers) gets retire health insurance beyond union employees, must companies have gotten rid of it. Also the Jobs bank is crazy, why pay up to 90% of salaries for employees to play checkers with each other. They should just get their unemployment just like any other person would get. Why does the UAW think they are any better than the rest of American work force.

[roskopfm]

Dont forget a GS-13 usually has a 4 year college degree. UAW employees are only high school graduates (if that). Blue colar jobs dont pay that much unless your union. Thats why jobs are moving out of the US.

[James48843]

Dont forget a GS-13 usually has a 4 year college degree. UAW employees are only high school graduates (if that). Blue colar jobs dont pay that much unless your union. Thats why jobs are moving out of the US.

Hard to compare GS to UAW, but here goes:

Once again, the full time GM assembly person hourly wage is $28.12 per hour this year. Most of those have more than 20, and less than 30 years with GM. There basically is no promotion opportunity, except for possible chance at a plant management type position. Engineering or sales management are much different fields.

On the GS scale- a GS-09, step 7 makes $28.04. Probably a better comparison than a -12 or -13.

UAW person contributes about $1,000 per year towards family health insurance. Federal Employee contributes about $4030 for an HMO plan. Postal people pay slightly less.

UAW person does not get paid during a one-week shutdown in August each year (called plant changeover), and normally gets two less holiday paid than federal workers do (Columbus Day, President's day are not auto holidays).

UAW assembly person is also subject to much harder physical labor than most feds- lifting up to 40 or 50 pounds on a regular basis. More in line with perhaps some of our mail people, guards, or perhaps auto mechanics (WG) in the civil service.

Of course- autoworkers make something really neat- like a Mustang or a Corvette.

Federal workers make........(well, OHSA makes Auto Workers work safer, Homeland security makes borders safer, IRS agents make.....well, I won't comment much more before I get myself in trouble :=) )

[James48843]

Article in my local newspaper tonight- first local area autoparts supplier declares bankruptcy today.


Local auto parts supplier files for bankruptcy

BY KRISTOFER KAROL • DAILY PRESS • December 16, 2008


Auto parts supplier Key Plastics LLC, which runs 25 facilities across the globe — including one in Howell, said today it has filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and submitted a reorganization plan.


Key Plastics plans on converting 100 percent of its $115 million face value of senior notes into 100 percent common stock of the company, which is when Minnesota-based investment firm Wayzata Investment Partners LLC will become the company’s controlling stakeholder. No job losses are expected due to the restructuring.

A call seeking comment from the local facility was directed to corporate,
which issued a statement.

“The global automotive industry is going through a period of historic change, and Key Plastics is taking the necessary steps to position the Company to succeed in the dynamic global business environment,” said Ralph Ralston, the company’s president and chief operating officer of North American operations.

“These steps will strengthen Key Plastics financially and operationally and allow the Company to focus on growing its business worldwide. We thank our employees, customers, suppliers and creditors for their hard work and support and look forward to a successful future for Key Plastics.”

[James48843]

Auto supplier Tenneco laying off up to 100
Associated Press10:03 PM CST,
December 16, 2008 KETTERING, Ohio - Auto parts supplier Tenneco Inc. says it is laying off up to 100 workers at its plant in the Dayton suburb of Kettering.

The layoffs will leave the factory with about 200 workers.

Tenneco spokeswoman Jane Ostrander said Tuesday that the layoffs are the result of production cuts at General Motors Corp. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/economy-business-finance/manufacturing-engineering/automotive-equipment/general-motors-corp.-ORCRP006407.topic), the plant's biggest customer.

Parts maker Delphi (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/economy-business-finance/delphi-corp-ORCRP004420.topic) Corp. owns the plant, but Lake Forest (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/us/illinois/lake-county-%28illinois%29/lake-forest-PLGEO100100501770000.topic), Ill.-based Tenneco leases part of it. Tenneco bought ride-control parts and machinery from Delphi when it moved in earlier this year.

[James48843]

Precision Parts International Holdings announces liquidation plans


By Ryan Beene (rbeene@crain.com) http://www.crainsdetroit.com/graphics/an_spacer.gif
Rochester Hills-based auto supplier Precision Parts International Holdings Inc. plans to liquidate after failing to secure bank financing today needed to reorganize under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

General Electric Capital Corp. is arranging a $2 million line of debtor-in-possession financing for Precision Parts, $700,000 of which will be available to the company until a judge enters a final order. Precision Parts can use the money for expenses related to winding down its operations at eight locations in North America.

The company decided Chapter 11 was the best available option, because of the lack of alternative financing sources, according to a judge’s order authorizing the financing.

The supplier of metal formed components filed for Chapter 11 protection late Friday in a Delaware bankruptcy court. The company said in a motion filed with the court that falling sales to domestic automakers and non-automotive customers, increasing steel costs and global economic woes hampered cash flow and hurt its ability to pay its debt.

Prior to seeking protection on Dec. 12, the company had about $87 million in bank debt, according to a motion filed with the court.

Precision Parts posted more than $197 million in revenue in 2007 and more than $141 million through October of 2008.

The company has six plants in the United States and one plant in Mexico and employs about 1,200 workers.

The supplier of stamped and cold-formed metal parts supplies the Detroit 3 as well as tier-one and tier-two suppliers and non-automotive manufacturers.

Cranes today: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Avis=CD&Dato=20081216&Kategori=FREE&Lopenr=812169973&Ref=AR&template=printart

[James48843]

Moody's downgrades American Axle ratings

Moody's sends American Axle ratings deeper into junk territory on falling auto production

December 16, 2008: 04:06 PM ET


NEW YORK (Associated Press) - Moody's Investors Service sent its ratings on auto parts supplier American Axle & Manufacturing Holdings Inc. deeper into junk status on Tuesday, citing falling automobile production levels and the company's heavy reliance on General Motors Corp. for business.

The credit ratings agency lowered its corporate family rating and probability of default rating two notches to "Caa1" from "B2" and is reviewing the new ratings for another possible downgrade.

Moody's also lowered American Axle's unsecured guaranteed notes to "Caa2" from "B2," its unsecured convertible notes to "Caa2" from "B2" and its speculative-grade liquidity rating to "SGL-4" from "SGL-3."
It affirmed its bank credit facilities at "B2."

Moody's attributed the new ratings to widespread production cuts at the Detroit Three automakers. General Motors, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have been slashing production recently to cope with the collapse in vehicle sales.

In addition, Moody's said American Axle receives a large portion of its business from GM, which could cause operating disruptions for the company if it or another U.S. automaker files for bankruptcy.

GM and Chrysler have warned that they are rapidly burning through cash and are counting on a rescue from the federal government to keep them alive through the end of the year. The Bush White House has said it is open to tapping money from the $700 billion bailout of Wall Street passed in October to help the automakers, but has not said when the money might be made available.

Shares of American Axle rose 18 cents, or 8 percent, to close at $2.43

[James48843]

UPDATE 2-Canada report sees huge job loss if Detroit 3 fail

Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:05pm
(Adds Harper call to Bush, critical DesRosiers reaction)
By John McCrank


TORONTO, Dec 16 (Reuters) - A collapse of the Detroit Three automakers would put nearly 600,000 Canadians out of work within five years, most of them in Ontario, as the impact ripples through the entire economy, a report released on Tuesday said.

The study, commissioned by the Ontario Manufacturing Council, warned that a collapse of General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=GM.N), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=GM.N), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=GM.N), Stock Buzz (http://reuters.socialpicks.com/stock/r/GM)), Ford Motor Co (F.N: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=F.N), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=F.N), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=F.N), Stock Buzz (http://reuters.socialpicks.com/stock/r/F)) and Chrysler Corp [CBS.UL] would spread across the country, hitting creditors, suppliers, parts manufacturers and dealerships.

The report came as the Canadian and U.S. governments debate plans for a possible rescue of the Big Three.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper called President George W. Bush on Saturday to say that if the United States provided aid, Canada would provide its own aid of 20 percent, a U.S. diplomat said on Tuesday. That could amount to several billion dollars from Ottawa.

The manufacturing council, which advises the Ontario government, said that if the Detroit Three were to cease production, 323,000 Canadians would lose their jobs immediately, including 281,800 in Ontario. That would rise to 582,000 nationally and 517,000 in the province by 2014.

"This report says that Canada is better off providing life support to GM and Chrysler because the demise of (the) auto (industry) in Canada is the economic equivalent of a nuclear freeze, with catastrophic effects that would knock us into a deep recession," said Michael Bryant, Ontario's economic development minister.

Under an alternative scenario, if the U.S.-based automakers were to cut production by 50 percent, at least 157,000 jobs would be lost right away, 141,000 of them in Ontario, the study said. By 2014, job losses would rise to 296,000 nationally, including 269,000 in Ontario.


"IRRESPONSIBLE" REPORT

Canadian auto consultant Dennis DesRosiers took sharp issue with the report, saying North Americans would continue to buy cars and someone would fill in the gap even in the unlikely event that all three companies disappeared.

"I don't want to discount the short term (2 to 3 year) disruption and chaos a complete collapse could cause but to write a report that says that 517,000 jobs disappear in Canada is irresponsible to the nth degree," DesRosiers wrote.

"Indeed this extreme fear mongering we see day to day is part of the current problem."

Bryant, who called the job loss estimates in the report conservative, said action by the Canadian and Ontario governments would ensure that neither scenario plays out.

"Transformation of the auto industry? Absolutely. Armageddon? No. Our governments won't let that happen."

Rob Wildeboer, executive chairman of autoparts maker Martinrea International Inc (MRE.TO: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=MRE.TO), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=MRE.TO), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=MRE.TO), Stock Buzz (http://reuters.socialpicks.com/stock/r/MRE)), said GM spends C$14 billion to C$16 billion a year in Ontario on parts.


He said the loss of one or two of the automakers would force about 50 parts makers out of business. And, if the auto manufacturers were to survive, but pull out of Canada, the parts makers would have to follow.

"For a company such as Martinrea, we have to locate, as a parts supplier, where our customers are," said Wildeboer, who is also a member of the Ontario Manufacturing Council.

"We do have plants in Mexico, we do have plants in the United States."
A permanent contraction of the auto industry would hurt the United States and the global economy, in turn reducing demand for all Canadian exports, and depressing prices of commodities such as oil and minerals, the report said.

The housing slump that would follow would kill construction jobs and have an impact on the retail, insurance, real estate and financial services sectors.

Canada's economy would partially recover between 2015 to 2019 due to the depreciation of the currency, lower interest rates and lower production costs, but there would be a permanent dent in terms of jobs and output, the report said.

A similar study in the United States by the Center for Automotive Research said the loss of one or more of the Detroit Three would cut up to 2.5 million U.S. jobs in the first year as industry production ground to a halt. (Additional reporting by Jennifer Kwan; editing by Rob Wilson)

[James48843]

Bosch may cut hundreds of jobs
Dec 16, 2008

German auto parts supplier Robert Bosch (http://www.boschautoparts.com/) may cut hundreds of jobs abroad as the economic crisis deepens, according to management board member Bernd Bohr. Bohr says the cuts could mean hundreds of fewer jobs at its foreign installations


"It could be more depending on how deep the economic falloff will be," Bohr said. The company has auto parts plants in many countries in Asia and the Americas, including major installations in the United States, China and India.


German automakers including BMW AG, Daimler AG and General Motors Corp. subsidiary Adam Opel AG, among others in Europe, have announced production cuts.

[James48843]

Cash-strapped Christmas for staff of Ford supplier

10:53am Tuesday 16th December 2008
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/resources/images/561636/ By Gareth Lewis » (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/biog/2038)

WORKERS for a major supplier of Southampton’s troubled Ford Transit plant face a cash-strapped Christmas after learning they would barely be paid during a four-week winter shutdown.

Staff of seating and upholstery supplier Magna get just £20.40 a day for the first five days and then nothing for the remaining three weeks.

Unions branded the offer – the minimum amount legally allowed – an “absolute disaster” and warned the workforce may look for alternative jobs rather than return. Staff told the Daily Echo they were now “panicking” over how to pay their mortgages.

Because the Ford plant at Swaythling is shutting down for a month over Christmas, so too are dedicated suppliers such as Magna.

But, whereas Ford workers receive basic pay, Magna workers based next door on the site, get next to nothing.

One of the biggest auto parts suppliers in the world, Magna has 243 production and 63 engineering and R&D centres in 24 countries on five continents.
A spokesman said they had tried to minimise the impact of the shutdown on staff by letting them take pay in advance and work it off later.
One Magna worker, who did not want to be named, said: “People are really unhappy about it, as you would be if you weren’t basically going to be paid for December.

“The people who have mortgages are panicking more than anyone. Some of them have been here eight or nine years and many of them are thinking about not going back. They are trying to get a new job over Christmas.

“What we see is that we are the people that made it profitable for the past three or four years.We won awards. And now they just turn around and say you’re not getting paid.”

Ian Woodland of the union Unite said: “This is an absolute disaster for our members. The union approached the company and gave them an opportunity to assist our members with their finances but they said no.

“Other companies on the Ford site are getting payments that mirror the Ford workers’ basic pay but they wouldn’t even consider it. I understand that we are in a depressed situation but at Christmas this is Scrooge-like.

“I warned the company I would be surprised if they had a workforce to come back after Christmas.”

A Magna spokesman said: “These are difficult times and unfortunately we are affected by the economic climate. We gave all employees an opportunity to have ten days’ pay in advance and bring forward up to four days of their 2009 holiday entitlement.

“Employees are also receiving the statutory entitlement in line with our legal obligations.”

[Show-me]

The auto industry is far reaching, another plant with two locations in Illinois shut down last summer to move to Mexico. I think they scraped the move to Mexico and just shut down.



Monroe City Intermet layoffs take effect

Monroe City, MO —
Thirty-six workers at the Intermet plant in Monroe City were laid off Monday.
No reductions are scheduled at the company’s Palmyra facility, but a longer holiday shutdown is planned there.
A spokesman said the layoffs are the result of a drop in demand for metal auto parts made at both facilities, but wouldn’t say if more job reductions are planned.
“We’ll continue to monitor our production and continue to monitor our customers’ requirements,” said the spokesman, Gordon Cole.
The Palmyra plant will close for its normal Christmas shutdown on Dec. 19, but won’t re-open until Jan. 12. That’s two weeks longer than usual.
Intermet had 232 workers in Monroe City and 115 in Palmyra. The Texas-based company in August filed a second time for bankruptcy. In seeking Chapter 11 protection, it cited slumping vehicle sales and high commodity prices.
Cole said the company continues working with financial advisors and expects to emerge from bankruptcy, although a timetable has not been set.


http://www.hannibal.net/news_local/x1720695530/Monroe-City-Intermet-layoffs-take-effect

[James48843]

Here we go. It's the beginning of the end:


Chrysler says to shut down all production for month


DETROIT (Reuters) – Citing a credit crisis and dwindling sales, Chrysler LLC on Wednesday said it would shut down all of its manufacturing operations from the end of this week for at least a month.

The blanket shutdown marked a deepening of the financial crisis for the embattled U.S. auto industry and came as Chrysler and its larger rival General Motors Corp both seek to shore up cash as they seek a federal bailout they say they need to survive.

Chrysler, considered the weakest of the Detroit automakers, made the announcement on its plant shutdown in a letter sent on Wednesday to its employees, suppliers and the United Auto Workers union that was also posted on its website.

Chrysler said its dealers were getting car shoppers into showrooms but losing between 20 percent and 25 percent of those potential sales because of the lack of consumer financing for new car purchases.

"As a result of the financial crisis, the automotive market remains depressed due to the continued lack of consumer credit for potential buyers," the automaker said in a statement.

Separately, Chrysler said its finance arm could be forced to stop making loans dealers use to finance inventory because the dealers have been pulling money out from a fund that helps finance the floorplan loans.

The shutdown by Chrysler will idle plants in the United States, Canada and Mexico producing vehicles for its Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge brands.

The more than 30,000 Chrysler workers in the United States represented by the UAW receive nearly full benefits and wages during plant shutdowns, but labor costs represent only about 10 percent of the total cost of the average vehicle.

By idling plants, Chrysler and other automakers can cut costs on inventory, components and related charges such as utilities for operating large production facilities.
The moves also keep finished vehicle inventories from piling up on dealer lots and increasing the pressure for even greater discounting to consumers.

GM said last week that it was cutting its first-quarter production schedule by 60 percent compared with the same period a year earlier.

Privately held Chrysler is 80-percent owned by private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

Chrysler's sales plunged 47 percent in November and were down almost 28 percent for the first eleven months of 2008.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081217/bs_nm/us_chrysler_shutdown/print;_ylt=AuQA9GiJ_BPKZ_7Si3BimvZu.aF4

[James48843]

France's auto parts supplier Valeo to cut 5,000 jobs

Wed Dec 17,
PARIS (AFP) – French auto parts maker Valeo said Wednesday it would cut around 5,000 jobs worldwide, including 1,600 in France, in response to the slump in global car sales.

Valeo, which employs a total of 54,000 people, said in a statement it was adopting a "plan to adapt its head-count in order to deal with the sharp drop in automobile production."

The company said fourth quarter production was expected to drop by over 20 percent, and that it expected no improvement in 2009.

"Given this situation, and despite the measures already implemented by the Group, Valeo must reduce its permanent head-count in order to maintain its competitiveness," it said.

"A reduction in headcount of around 5,000 employees is planned worldwide, including around 1,600 in France and 1,800 in other European countries," with priority given to voluntary departures, it said.

Valeo said it had transmitted the plan to the European Works Council and would launch consultations with staff representatives.

[James48843]

GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

GM puts brakes on Mich. factory that will build Volt engine as it tries to preserve cash


Wednesday December 17, 2008, 4:54 pm EST

DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Corp., anxiously conserving cash so it can keep operating into 2009, said Wednesday it would halt construction of a plant tied to one of its most important projects while the automaker awaits a Washington bailout.

GM said it is putting the brakes on the construction of a factory in Flint, Mich., set to make 1.4-liter engines for the Chevrolet Cruze and the Chevy Volt plug-in electric car.

It's just one more effort by GM to hold on to every penny possible as it speeds closer to the day when the 100-year-old industrial giant won't be able to pay its bills.

The company has been scaling back just about everywhere -- shutting down vehicle production, ending sports sponsorships, turning off escalators and even cutting back on office supplies -- to stay afloat.

GM is seeking up to $18 billion in government loans as it tries to survive the worst U.S. auto sales environment in 26 years. It says it needs $4 billion before this year runs out.

GM board member Kent Kresa told The Associated Press last week that the company might make it into the early part of the first quarter, depending on auto sales, yet GM has several billion dollars worth of supplier payments due shortly after the first of the year, and analysts have said the company probably doesn't have the cash to pay them.

GM announced plans in September for the new engine plant in Flint, 50 miles northwest of Detroit, and said production would begin in 2010. But the company is delaying the purchase of big-ticket items needed to build the factory, such as structural steel, spokeswoman Sharon Basel said.

The plant's engines will extend the range of the rechargeable Volt, GM's high-profile next-generation vehicle that will be able to travel 40 miles on electricity alone. They will also power the Cruze, GM's new small car that is supposed to get around 40 miles per gallon.
Basel said Volt and Cruze development will continue as scheduled and the company still plans to bring them to showrooms in 2010. The construction delay, she said, may be temporary until the company figures out its cash situation.

"Everything that involves heavy cash outlays obviously is under review," Basel said Wednesday. "Our intent is to still go forward with a new facility bringing that engine to Flint, Mich."

Basel said the delay, which The Flint Journal reported Wednesday on its Web site, is part of GM's overall effort to conserve cash until a decision is made on the government loans. President George W. Bush stepped forward to say he would act to save the domestic auto industry after a bill authorizing $14 billion in loans for GM and Chrysler LLC was thwarted in Congress.
Ford Motor Co. has said it has enough cash to survive 2009.

Bush administration officials said they were still evaluating options and attempting to avoid a disorderly bankruptcy of the companies while suggesting that concessions from all sides would need to accompany any deal. Several lawmakers have pressed for an array of terms and conditions in any deal crafted by the White House, complicating matters.

Meanwhile, GM has held off many large expenditures, such as the steel for the Flint plant, Basel said.
"Those are huge cash outlays, and we don't have the cash," she said.

Basel said there is plenty of time to build the factory, install equipment and get it up and running in time to produce engines for the two new cars. The company already makes the 1.4-liter engine at a plant in Austria, she said, giving it another option for engines.

"We have lots of options. The construction of the new plant is not going to interrupt our plans for the Volt or Cruze," Basel said.

Work will continue as scheduled on the Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant, which will make the Cruze starting in mid-2010, said GM spokesman Chris Lee. The company has not formally announced where the Volt will be built, although the Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant was identified in the 2007 contract with the United Auto Workers. Lee said Volt production remains on schedule for later in 2010.

GM said in September it would invest $370 million in the new factory, which will employ 330 hourly and salaried workers and allow the company to double its global production of smaller engines by 2011. The plant will have 300 flexible work stations that will let GM build different four-cylinder engines without retooling.

The United Auto Workers union agreed that new hires for the plant would be paid $14 per hour, about half the wages of a current UAW worker. It also agreed to a new flexible pact with GM that lets workers do multiple jobs.
The new factory brings the prospect of more jobs to an industrial city hard hit by auto job losses. GM's nearby Flint Engine North plant closed in August.

The state of Michigan approved $132.5 million in tax incentives for the automaker to spend $838 million on the new plant and to upgrade four other facilities.
Shares of GM rose 7 cents, or 1.7 percent, to $4.32 in afternoon trading.

[James48843]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=5251&d=1229570334

[McDuck]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=5251&d=1229570334


Is Uncle Sam slipping him a billfold full of $20s and credit cards?

[McDuck]

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/uaw-pricing-themselves-out-of-market.html

[McDuck]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=5251&d=1229570334


GOP Senators (and Reps) also tried to stop the Bank/Hedge-Fund bailout, but they were out numbered.

[James48843]

Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy

By JENNIFER LOVEN, AP White House Correspondent


WASHINGTON – The Bush administration is looking at "orderly" bankruptcy as a possible way to deal with the desperately ailing U.S. auto industry, the White House said Thursday as carmakers readied more plant closings and a half million new jobless claims underscored the deteriorating national economy.

With General Motors, Chrysler and the rest of Detroit anxiously awaiting a White House decision on billions of dollars in emergency federal loans, press secretary Dana Perino said it wasn't simply a choice between government rescue and the disastrous collapse of a major industry.

"There's an orderly way to do bankruptcies that provides for more of a soft landing," she said. "I think that's what we would be talking about."
President George W. Bush, asked about an auto bailout, said he hadn't decided what he would do but didn't want to leave a mess for Barack Obama who takes office a month from Saturday. A White House decision on helping the troubled automakers could come as early as Friday.

Bush, like Perino, spoke of the idea of bankruptcies orchestrated by the
federal government as a possible way to go — without committing to it.

"Under normal circumstances, no question bankruptcy court is the best way to work through credit and debt and restructuring," he said during a speech and question-and-answer session at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative Washington think tank. "These aren't normal circumstances. That's the problem."

Perino emphasized there were still several possible approaches to assisting the automakers, including short-term loans from the Treasury Department's $700 billion Wall Street bailout program.

The Big Three automakers said anew that bankruptcy wasn't the answer, as did an official of the United Auto Workers who called the idea unworkable and even dangerous. GM said a report that it and Chrysler had restarted talks to combine was untrue.

[James48843]

Note:

Under bankruptcy, the pensions of those 419,000 would roll off the books of GM, Ford and Chrysler, and instead go to the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. PBGC takes over defaulted pension plans, using insurance payments of pension companies. If the insurance is not enough, however, the taxpayer ends up footing the bill of unfunded liability.

G.M. alone had a significant pension liability -- for 2004 it was $89 billion. It has since been reduced significantly, but still is a large number.

They slashed pension plans in 2006, changing to a 401(k) style plan instead of a defined benefit plan for salary workers hired after 2001.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-07-gm-pension-freeze_x.htm

About six months ago they canceled the 4% matching funds for those 401K pension plans.

If they go down now, and PBGC ends up with just the pensions now owed, that alone will bring GM costs under Honda/Toyota, but it will mean the taxpayer will probably foot the bill for a whole lot more than the amounts they are talking about now as a loan.

Think about it.

[McDuck]

They slashed pension plans in 2006, changing to a 401(k) style plan instead of a defined benefit plan for salary workers hired after 2001.
[/URL]

Two-tier systems sucks. The union bosses do nothing for the new workers.


[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-07-gm-pension-freeze_x.htm"] (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-07-gm-pension-freeze_x.htm)
If they go down now, and PBGC ends up with just the pensions now owed, that alone will bring GM costs under Honda/Toyota, but it will mean the taxpayer will probably foot the bill for a whole lot more than the amounts they are talking about now as a loan.


Nobody in their mind is saying that "the amounts they are talking about now as a loan" would save the car company. It's just a temporary band-aid to draw it out. They would need numerous loans of this amount to subsidize making U.S. cars (like the Soviets did).

[Show-me]

James,

Are you sure it goes on the taxpayers? I thought under the PBGC they use the insurance premiums and what ever is left in the pensions, divide it up and that's all ya get folks.

I remember something about airline retires getting 50% or less of their pension because of under funding.



The immediate effect of the decision will be to cut by more than half the pensions of many members of United Airlines' four unions, who have now become wards of the federal government's pension guarantee program. While reducing the maximum United pension benefit from more than $100,000 a year to around $46,000 may not seem like a social disaster, the court's action may well mark the beginning of the end of the system of retirement planning as we know it. Indeed, this decision, more than the predicted shortfall of Social Security decades from now, will have a real impact on the retirement of real people who live in real time.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051400073.html

[James48843]

James,

Are you sure it goes on the taxpayers? I thought under the PBGC they use the insurance premiums and what ever is left in the pensions, divide it up and that's all ya get folks.

I remember something about airline retires getting 50% or less of their pension because of under funding.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051400073.html

1. Divide it up and that's all you get...no. That's not how it works. PBGC operates like this: A. How much does the company have , and how much is it behind where it is fully funded. The difference is paid by PBGC. PBGC is funded mostly by pension insurance. But they already have said that they may run out of money this time around, depending on how bad it gets. And if PBGC runs out of money, then taxpayers end up with the bill.

2. The amount you get is based on a formula. Pensions for those over age 65, are guarenteed a certain amount. Those who are younger are guarenteed a sliding scale payout.
Age Annual Maximum Monthly Maximum Monthly Joint and 50% Survivor Maximum*

65
$ 54,000.00

$ 4,500.00

$ 4,050.00
64
$ 50,220.00

$ 4,185.00

$ 3,766.50
63
$ 46,440.00

$ 3,870.00

$ 3,483.00
62
$ 42,660.00

$ 3,555.00

$ 3,199.50
61
$ 38,880.00

$ 3,240.00

$ 2,916.00
60
$ 35,100.00

$ 2,925.00

$ 2,632.50
59
$ 32,940.00

$ 2,745.00

$ 2,470.50
58
$ 30,780.00

$ 2,565.00

$ 2,308.50
57
$ 28,620.00

$ 2,385.00

$ 2,146.50
56
$ 26,460.00

$ 2,205.00

$ 1,984.50
55
$ 24,300.00

$ 2,025.00

$ 1,822.50
54
$ 23,220.00

$ 1,935.00

$ 1,741.50
53
$ 22,140.00

$ 1,845.00

$ 1,660.50
52
$ 21,060.00

$ 1,755.00

$ 1,579.50
51
$ 19,980.00

$ 1,665.00

$ 1,498.50
50
$ 18,900.00

$ 1,575.00

$ 1,417.50





The article you read about airlines was them saying the airlines owed them a pension based on annual earnings of 100K or so- (pilots WERE well paid). The max they can get under PBGC payouts would be much less than what pilots would have gotten in a fully funded pension program. For example, pilots must retire at age 60. Under United Airlines pension program, a pilot would have made perhaps $160,000 a year in the last three years as a captain on a 747. He would have been entitled to a pension of around 65,000 a year under United's pension plan. Under PBGC, after United went bankrupt, the pilot at age 60 instead would get a payout of $2925 a month.

[James48843]

Sorry, that table didn't work.

Here is a clip from that article you posted about the airlines back in 2005:

"According to Forbes, the PBGC currently faces a $23.3 billion gap between its assets and its liabilities. If other airlines and large corporations seek to shed their pension obligations, its deficit will mushroom. Eventually U.S. taxpayers are going to have to pay for the shortfall. In all likelihood, a PBGC bailout would be more expensive than the savings and loan rescue of the 1980s. If there is a bailout, the winners will be the corporations that created the crisis...".


Here is a link to the PBGC current payout limit tables for 2008:

http://www.pbgc.gov/media/news-archive/news-releases/2008/pr09-03.html

[James48843]

from that 2005 article:



How can the PBGC take on all these expensive obligations? The answer is that it can't -- because it wasn't set up to handle the escalating number of defaults now taking place. The PGBC's origins can be traced back to 1963 and the closing of the Studebaker auto plant in South Bend, Ind. Approximately 7,000 workers lost their pensions. The public outcry was so great that Congress set about to craft legislation to protect private pensioners. After 10 years, it enacted the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA). ERISA created the PBGC, an employer-financed but government-backed program of pension insurance that was loosely modeled on the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., which provides insurance for bank accounts to give depositors some protection against bank failures.


According to Forbes, the PBGC currently faces a $23.3 billion gap between its assets and its liabilities.(in 2005)

[James48843]

And, from the 2008 report released by PBGC just November 7, 2008, they say this:


At year-end, PBGC’s estimate of its exposure from underfunding by plan sponsors whose credit ratings were below investment grade or who met one or more financial distress criteria totaled approximately $47 billion, down from $66 billion in 2007. PBGC classifies these sponsors’ underfunded plans as reasonably possible terminations (see Note 8 and Note 16).

So they are 47 billion in the whole already.

What is even more bizarre is this line:


No new large plans were classified as probable terminations in 2008 although twenty smaller plans were added as new probable terminations with underfunding of $233 million. Probable terminations represent PBGC’s best estimate of claims for plans that are likely to terminate in a future year.

As recently as November 7, they didn't think any more large plans would fail in 2008. Now we are talking about a slew of companies about to hit the skids. And PBGC is already 47 billion in the hole.

Here is the link to PBGC's annual report: http://www.pbgc.gov/docs/2008amr.pdf

[James48843]

No Cash No Parts: Part Suppliers Are Demanding COD For Chrysler Order Deliveries

No Cash No Parts: Part Suppliers Are Demanding COD For Chrysler Order Deliverieshttp://tenzing.fmpub.net/?t=z&n=227&s=Sedan&fleur_de_sel=2210001515692330

Chrysler LLCs suppliers have begun asking for cash on delivery for auto (http://www.autospies.com/news/No-Cash-No-Parts-Part-Suppliers-Are-Demanding-COD-For-Chrysler-Order-Deliveries-38794/#) parts, the Associated Press reported late Thursday, citing an interview with executives. Vice Chairman Tom LaSorda and Chief Financial Officer Ron Kolka said suppliers and other vendors have demanded COD, but the company is "fending them off," the AP said.

When suppliers demand COD from a troubled company such as Chryslerhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif (http://www.autospies.com/news/No-Cash-No-Parts-Part-Suppliers-Are-Demanding-COD-For-Chrysler-Order-Deliveries-38794/#), it can cause chaos in the company's financial structure.
Chrysler's cash will drop to $2.5 billion by Dec. 31, company officials have said. That's the bare minimum the automaker (http://www.autospies.com/news/No-Cash-No-Parts-Part-Suppliers-Are-Demanding-COD-For-Chrysler-Order-Deliveries-38794/#) needs to make payroll and pay suppliers, according to the report. Chrysler pays its suppliers $7 billion every 45 days, Kolka told the AP.


source: http://www.autospies.com/news/No-Cash-No-Parts-Part-Suppliers-Are-Demanding-COD-For-Chrysler-Order-Deliveries-38794/

[roskopfm]

I think Bush Really messed up on this one. Their should have been no bailout without the UAW agree in writting to specific concessions first.

[McDuck]

Autoworkers Union Keeps $6 Million Golf Course for Members (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/9-0&fp=49561eb0070dbe74&ei=4ntWSeX4D5XM8AT3-cifAg&url=http%3A//www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C472304%2C00.html&cid=1284105410&sig2=d4OyUuSglGS6u61VLfG2BQ&usg=AFQjCNFp6dUDYBV4CYLbJMZjsAbtxMTEKg)

[McDuck]

UAW Keeps Talking About Wages, Not Talking About Legacy Costs (http://traffic.outbrain.com/network/redir?key=94957262c11d0b2798a83afa1cc10a50&rdid=12344260&type=MLT&req_id=640d2c30547bbf20da8f4adddde0191f&fp=false&am=get&agent=blog_JS_rec&version=3.7.8&idx=0)

[McDuck]

Jimbo,

Other than a single letter from NTEU, did the union fat-cats do anything to try to prevent the IFT limitations put on us? Did they?

The union bosses take care of themselves and punish the workers. Being a union bo$$ is where the real money is now days. That's is why Obama's Chicago friend wanted to become one by selling the Senate seat.

Bump

[James48843]

Other than a single letter from NTEU, did the union fat-cats do anything to try to prevent the IFT limitations put on us? Did they?

The union bosses take care of themselves and punish the workers. Being a union bo$$ is where the real money is now days.

First of all, how do you think that NTEU letter got there?

I will tell you that I personally flew to Washington, and met with the NTEU's political director, and explained what was happening. NTEU said at the time that no members of NTEU were on the phone telling them it was a problem. When I showed them the numbers, they agreed, and sent in the letter in opposition.

The other Unions never heard from people in the field.

Real money in being a Union boss? Hardly. If you pull the LM2's for most federal unions, you'll find that the pay isn't all that great. It is a fraction of the pay of corporate executives. NTEU has 77,400 members, and has a $33 million budget.

Colleen Kelly, as president, NTEU, earned $222,639 in 2007, according to the LM-2. There are sixteen Executive VP's of NTEU, who each was paid between $1,240 and $6,700. The average was about $3200.

Several of the attorneys in the NTEU national office make around $150K, several others earn in the range of $120K.


The LM-2 for the American Postal Workers Union, AFl-CIO shows William Burrus, President, earned $149,703 in 2007. It also had a large number of "business agents", who earned on average about 85K a year.

The LM-2 for NAGE, the National Association for Government Employees, shows National President David Holway earned $233,654, and national VP Barbara Osgood earned $134,792.

The LM-2 for the National Weather Service Employees Union shows President DANIEL SOBIEN earned $0. However, he was reimbursed $34,389 for expenses over the course of the year.


Just thought you would like to see the facts.

Any Union's LM-2 report is available on-line to look at, at this address: http://kcerds.dol-esa.gov/query/getOrgQry.do


So tell me- is there any other organizations that are required to file all of their expenses as public information, as Unions are required to do?

You won't find Congressional Office expenses broken out like that, nor Corporation earnings statements in that kind of detail all filed in one place.

[McDuck]

I will tell you that I personally flew to Washington, and met with the NTEU's political director, and explained what was happening. NTEU said at the time that no members of NTEU were on the phone telling them it was a problem. When I showed them the numbers, they agreed, and sent in the letter in opposition.


Thanks James for doing that and for answering the question.

I asked my union local president to write a letter and that he request the national write a letter. He said he would, then 3 days before the deadline he asked me to write-up the issues. He sent him a lot the info that you posted here and then wanted more info. He never sent a letter (he's in CSRS so it didn't effect him).

[James48843]

Let's talk for a minute about what a Union is.

It seems many people think "the Union" is some far off entity, who has gobs of staff people, and runs around and fixes things. Greg, you seem to think that they are all "fat cat bosses" sucking up the money of workers.

I'll let you in on a little secret-

YOU are the Union.

A Union works like this- it is the legal entity that allows WORKERS to band together to try and help EACH OTHER.

If it is functioning like it should, then if YOU have a problem or issue, you should be able to raise it first with your local rep. Your rep should ensure it is made known to higher levels, but the first line of action is that each member, at the local level, bands together and helps the member address the issue.

For example, in the TSP problem, what SHOULD have happened, is that at YOUR local level, the Union leadership should have asked each member of the Union to write a letter to the thrift board. If your local has 25 members, there should have been 25 indiviuals who wrote. And then if that is not enough, the next level up should have notified all the locals to each get involved, with phone calls, and letters, so that hundreds, or thousands, of contacts were made with decision makers.

And ALL of the Unions should have gotten involved- so that there were tens of thousands of phone calls and letters mailed.

A good Union "fat cat boss" should have recognized the significance of the issue, and mobilzed the resources they had available to make it an issue.

Now, I will tell you, that "fat cat bosses" don't really always know what the issues are out there. The only way they know, is when someone tells them.

And, unlike many other organizations- the Unions rely on (or are supposed to rely on) the message being passed from the bottom up. Your dues paying money should allow you to pick up the phone, and personally contact an executive of YOUR union. YOU are who they work for.

If your local president didn't follow through, that's poor leadership at the local level. He/She may have had other issues to deal with. Your issue may have seemed small at the time. In cases like that, it is up to YOU to impart the seriousness of the issue, and to raise the issue up, and to make sure it gets "in the face" of the national leadership.

ANd it is up to YOU to motivate others around you to also join you in the seriousness of the task.

IN this case, it was a case where most of the members didn't know, because most of the members weren't moving money around. And didn't understand that the stock market was about to plunge 48%.

You do what you can do.

You try.

The victory goes not to the man who sits on the sidelines, and criticizes the leaders he sees in the fight.

The victory goes to the man who actually enters the ring- who drips sweat from his brow, who raises the fist, and takes the punch. He who actually enters the ring, and leaves bloody and broken. For HE is the one who suffers the results of the punches thrown, and can take pride in having fought the good fight.

[McDuck]

Why Detroit Has an Especially Bad Union Problem (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123060246925441479.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)
Wall Street Journal - Dec 29, 2008

[roskopfm]

They might get paid $73 an hour with benefits, but they dont EARN $73 an hour. Sitting on Job banks, retire health, more vacation days that anyone on the planet. All that without anything more than a high school diploma at most is just insane. They deserve a lot less. I toured the Toyota factory in Kentucky. That is a class act unlike the UAW facilities. Employees work hard, proud of their work and the place is spotless. You will never see that in Detroit.

[James48843]

They might get paid $73 an hour with benefits, but they dont EARN $73 an hour. Sitting on Job banks, retire health, more vacation days that anyone on the planet. All that without anything more than a high school diploma at most is just insane. They deserve a lot less. I toured the Toyota factory in Kentucky. That is a class act unlike the UAW facilities. Employees work hard, proud of their work and the place is spotless. You will never see that in Detroit.


Sorry Ros, but I don't think you've seen the whole picture. I invite you to tour a GM plant and learn more.

First, they don't get paid $73. We already had that discusson. The fact is starting wages at UAW facilities are now $14.50 an hour, with journeyman assembly people making $28 an hour- which is BELOW Toyota, and just $1.50 above Honda. They don't "sit on job banks". Yes, they do have health insurance. Hopefully under the new Congress and Administration we can get equal health care for UAW employees and NON_UAW employees through a national health care program. While you might enjoy making sure the American worker does not have health insurance, I believe the opposite- we should all have it available to us.

Second- have you ever been inside a GM plant?

Here is an article for you to learn more.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20080811/ANA03/71348723/1186


-------------------------------------------------
GM factory a model of sustainable manufacturing


Green ideas take flight at plant near Lansing, Mich.

Andrew Grossman
Automotive News
August 11, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

The lights on the factory floor turn off during breaks.
Cisterns collect rainwater from the roof to use in the toilets.
Workers build bird feeders and hike in the nature preserve that takes up part of the nearly 680 undeveloped acres around the plant.


(http://sec.crain.com/an/QuickOrder.aspx?p=W8ANrsb)


The big General Motors factory near Lansing, Mich., that cranks out crossovers doesn't fit the old, gritty smokestack image. But the scene could become more common. Automakers are realizing that sustainable manufacturing helps their bottom line. After all, eliminating waste is a foundation principle of green and lean manufacturing.

More: http://www.autonews.com/article/20080811/ANA03/71348723/1186

------------------------------------------------------

And GM is not just building cars in the USA. GM is global, providing quality cars and quality jobs for people around the world:

GM opens first Russian factory
Posted 11/7/2008 12:59 PM
By Dmitry Lovetsky, Associated Press Writer

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia — U.S. car giant General Motors Corp. launched its first Russian assembly plant Friday, hoping that sales in this emerging market will bolster its staggering global performance.

GM executives basked in the praise of Russian authorities attending the opening of the $300 million, 70,000-car-a-year factory outside St. Petersburg, just hours before the world's largest car maker announced it lost $2.5 billion in the third quarter and warned that it could run out of cash in 2009.

President Dmitry Medvedev thanked GM "for all the work they have done" and described the new factory as a "good investment project that looks into the future."

More: http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-11-07-694987216_x.htm

[James48843]

Auto Workers Write Open Letter to Non-Union Auto Workers in the South, Plan to Rally Sunday, Jan 11 outside Detroit Auto Show

While organizing for a Jan 11 rally outside the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Midwest auto workers wrote an open letter to workers in non-union “transplants” in the South.

They wanted to reach these sisters and brothers because some Southern Congressmen have been vocal leaders pushing union workers to take concessions, as part of the government’s auto loan package. Non-union auto companies like Nissan, Mercedes, Toyota and Honda are big in the South--and now these lawmakers say UAW auto workers need to drop their wages and change their working conditions to those of workers in their states. In other words, union conditions should be the same as non-union!

UAW members hope to share a vision of solidarity with their non-union brothers and sisters--and to let them know that once cuts go through in the Midwest, Southern wages will be next. The race to the bottom is on!

HOW TO SUPPORT:


If you’re an auto worker or family, please sign the letter, which will be distributed to our sisters and brothers in the auto transplants, by going to www.autoworkercaravan.org (http://www.autoworkercaravan.org/). Please forward this message to your contacts in auto.
Join auto workers and their supporters Jan 11 at 1 PM outside the North American International Auto Show, outside Cobo Hall. www.autoworkerscaravan.org (http://www.autoworkerscaravan.org/)
Plan a solidarity rally, encourage UAW locals in your area to get involved in a fight back, or include talking points about the need to fight concessions as part of your push on Congress and President Obama in upcoming months. Remember--this isn't about auto workers. We can't allow the government to demand deep cuts from working folks while handing out billions to banks and corporations.

[James48843]

(The Open Letter, from MidWest Autoworkers to Southern Autoworkers: )


Dear Brothers and Sisters:

The crisis in the auto industry is being used to pit us against each other – union vs. non-union, north against the south. We rank and file autoworkers would like to speak directly to you as fellow autoworkers. Some of us work at assembly plants, some in the parts industry, while others are retired.

First, we want to say that we are not enemies. Like you, we are everyday, hard-working people who are trying to provide a decent life for our families and hoping for a better life for our children. As working people we have more in common with each other than we do with those that run corporate America.

Some corporations and politicians have developed a great strategy: create a culture where workers are resentful of each other but admire CEOs who make 440 times the average wage. And don’t question the worth of our leaders in Congress, whose salaries start at $172,000 with an annual cost-of-living increase plus excellent health care and pension benefits. (They just gave themselves a raise.)

The media glorifies wealthy people and encourages us to desire the “lifestyles of the rich and famous.” The contradiction is that this same corporate media paints a picture of autoworkers as lazy and greedy. Unfortunately, too many working people buy into the propaganda, which is designed to make one group of workers blame another.

Working people did not create the financial mess we’re in. The real villains are the corporate CEOs and the big shots in banking that made the decisions that destroyed our economy. Yet they are still raking in tens of millions of dollars in bonuses for the little work they do. Talk about being lazy and greedy!

Let’s clear up a popular lie used by those who seek to turn us against each other. We do not make $72 + an hour in wages and benefits. That is the total labor cost per active worker, when the cost of pensions and health care for retirees is added to their wages and benefits. The truth is that a long-time production worker makes $28 an hour and benefits. New hires only make about $14.50 an hour, with far fewer benefits.

In reality, labor costs are only 8-10% of the vehicle cost.

Some Senators, who are against the bridge loan to the automakers, say that the industry has to cut their “legacy costs.“ “Legacy costs” means the pensions and health care for the over 1.5 million retirees and surviving spouses at GM, Ford and Chrysler. It would be criminal to cut out the benefits contractually promised to people who have worked for these carmakers.

Because the U.S. plants of Toyota and other foreign automakers are newer, there are few retirees. Legacy costs at companies like Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Nissan and Hyundai will continue to grow as more of you get older and look to retire. We’re sure you would agree that if they promised you something, you would expect them to honor their promise after you held up your end of the bargain. The same holds true for us.

One of the reasons we have pensions, decent wages and health care is because we belong to a union. In the 1950s and ‘60s we set the bar in wages and benefits to which other workers aspired. And as our wages and benefits increased, it helped to raise wages and benefits for others. Many workers are envious of our wages and benefits, which we receive because we are organized for our mutual support. Because you are some of the highest paid workers in your communities, you have probably experienced some of that same, misplaced resentment.

Over the last several contracts union autoworkers have taken enormous concessions in the name of competition. Those concessions haven’t brought us job security, but have only fueled the demand for more concessions. As the wages and benefits of workers at the Detroit automakers decrease, there will be pressure on you to take cuts.

This is what we call the race to the bottom -- it’s a race in which we are all losers.

Already, Toyota, which lost $1.7 billion in 2008, is planning wage cuts according to reports in the media and is cutting back production at many of its U.S. facilities. Workers in Smyrna, Tennessee are taking days off without pay to keep Nissan going. As the economy continues to unravel, there’ll be even more pressure to cut labor costs.

Even though we have problems with some of the decisions and direction of our union leadership, we still believe that democratic unions are the best way workers can protect themselves. We would welcome you in our union—when we stand together we amplify our voices. Statistics continue to show that, overall, unionized workers make 25% more in wages and benefits than non-unionized workers. That’s the power of unity.

Given the economic crisis, what can we do?

We believe we can work together with you to demand that health care and pensions not be based on jobs, but guaranteed to all workers as they are in other industrialized societies. We need a universal, single-payer health care system and the HR676 health care bill can help us get there. We can tell Congress and the Obama administration that the auto industry—including the workers at Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Subaru, BMW, Kia, Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz,--is at the center of the American economy, employing more than three million jobs and indirectly effecting millions more.

The industry needs to be revitalized with a plan that can produce not only fuel efficient cars but can manufacture light rail and high-speed trains, buses and the wind, water and solar technology needed to meet the needs of the 21st century.

Frankly we don’t think the same old management will be capable of putting together or implementing such a creative proposal; but we feel confident that workers, production and skilled trades, along with a bevy of engineers, consumers and environmental experts have a lot of valuable experience and knowledge and need to find our voices so we can build a future.

We want to put an end to anti-labor laws, to make sure that as autoworkers, we don’t lose our democratic rights when we punch in. We demand the repeal of unfair trade laws like NAFTA. We want a world in which workers are valued because we produce, transport or service products that are needed. We don’t want to be in competition with other workers—we all have the right to a decent job and a life where the next generation has an opportunity.

We ask those of you who are interested in having a dialogue with us to write us at info@autoworkercaravan.org.

Your Union Sisters And Brothers

[eccougar]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINBNG21268820090107?rpc=44Jan 7 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N) has adequate government loans pledged to cover the worst-case scenario it outlined in December to Congress and will not need more unless the economy worsens, a Bloomberg report said.

[eccougar]

James, I really appreciate your posts about the UAW worker. The pension fund
was funded by taking a few cents per each hour an employee worked and a couple years ago the pension fund was almost fully funded. I know lots of people, who have health benefits, who don't belong to unions. If 40 million people are uninsured, that means over 250 million have some kind of insurance.

[roskopfm]

The pension fund has never been fully funded by GM ford or Chrysler. Employees simular to Feds pay just a fraction of the cost. Thats the problem... Their pensions and retiree health, thats all folks. UAW needs to cave to save this industry.

[James48843]

The pension fund has never been fully funded by GM ford or Chrysler. Employees similar to Feds pay just a fraction of the cost. Thats the problem... Their pensions and retiree health, thats all folks. UAW needs to cave to save this industry.


Wrong, Rosko.

GM's pension fund is fully funded. And that money belongs to the workers, not to the company.

See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/25/business/25auto.html

and you'll read that workers have contributed in order to keep the pension plan solvent. It's fully funded now.

"G.M. says it will be paying retirees about $7 billion a year for the next 10 years. The fund’s assets were worth $104 billion at the end of 2007, more than enough to cover its obligations of $85 billion. Since then, the assets have declined and the obligations have grown, each by undisclosed amounts. The company says it does not plan to add any money to the fund for the next three or four years."


See, the pensions of workers is NOT the problem. Why are you insisting that workers have to take pay cuts, or pensions eliminated, in order for GM to survive? It's not the workers who are the cause of the problem.

Workers ALREADY made MAJOR contributions towards fixing the health care problem. They agreed in the 2007 contract to TAKE OVER HEALTH CARE COSTS in 2010. That's right- the UNION will be paying health care costs in 2010, not the company. But the Company, in order to get that concession, agreed to give seed money towards the costs between now and 2010. That seed money is a problem now for GM, but the workers said they would work with the company on this issue. But now the press, the Southern Senators, etc, are all saying that only the workers must pay an additional price.

Before you bash, please learn the FACTS.

"Hourly wages for UAW workers at GM factories already are about equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota — generally viewed as the main competitor of the Detroit Three — says it pays about $30 per hour."
Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jEd-GFu2ItWsA3J_6xEOljY9yLpgD95J7M900

[James48843]

GM, Chrysler offer workers cash, cars to leave

Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:38am GMT


By Poornima Gupta
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N (http://uk.reuters.com/business/quotes/quote?symbol=GM.N)) and Chrysler LLC on Monday began offering a new round of retirement incentives including vouchers for cars as the automakers move to reduce workers and inventory.

GM will offer its U.S. hourly workers $20,000 in cash and a $25,000 voucher to buy a vehicle as an incentive to retire or leave the company, an official with the United Auto Workers union briefed on the plan said.

The No. 1 U.S. automaker declined to comment.

Chrysler's program offers retirement-eligible workers $50,000 in cash and a voucher of $25,000 for a new Chrysler vehicle if they leave, according to a person with direct knowledge of the offers.

Workers who opt to leave Chrysler with no retiree health care benefits would get $75,000 and a $25,000 car voucher, the person said.

Chrysler confirmed that it was offering a new round of buyouts to workers that would be available until February 25.

Both GM and Chrysler are under pressure to cut labor costs further under the terms of a $17.4-billion U.S. bailout extended to the two struggling automakers.

Under the terms of that emergency lending, Chrysler and GM face a February 17 deadline to show how they can cut debt, labor costs and other expenses in order to be viable in a deeply depressed market for new cars and trucks.

As Chrysler's sales have tumbled, the automaker has slashed production, cut models and eliminated jobs. The automaker, controlled by private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management CBS.UL, has cut some 32,000 jobs, $3 billion in costs and about 30 percent of its production capacity.

But sales continue to retreat. Chrysler led a sinking market lower with a 53-percent drop in December sales, and analysts see a chance for a drop near 50 percent when it posts sales results for January this week.

Both GM and Chrysler have offered buyouts to trim factory payrolls in recent years.

But the terms of the current round of offers appeared to be less generous than prior buyout packages.

GM said last May that about 19,000 U.S. factory workers -- just over a quarter of its blue-collar work force at the time - -- had taken buyouts to leave the payroll.

In September, Chrysler had offered some 14,000 factory workers in Michigan lump-sum payments of up to $100,000 plus tuition assistance and some support for moving.

Many UAW workers have been reluctant to take the most recent buyout offers since the deep drop in the housing market has made it almost impossible to sell their homes.

GM and the UAW worked out details of the larger automaker's early retirement offers on Monday, one union official said.


More: http://uk.reuters.com/article/motoringAutoNews/idUKTRE51161920090203?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

[James48843]

End of Chrysler job bank affects 21 in Kenosha
Action comes in the wake of the federal bailout package
BY DENEEN SMITH
dsmith@kenoshanews.com (http://www.kenoshanews.com/contact_us/index.php?to=dsmith)
and THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Chrysler’s “job bank” program ended this week, closing in response to criticism that preceded the federal bailout package for automakers.


The program gave union workers at Chrysler, General Motors and Ford most of their pay and benefits while they were laid off, sometimes for years. It was a controversial program, one singled out for criticism by lawmakers when auto industry leaders went before Congress seeking a $17.4 billion loan.


The United Auto Workers agreed to end the program as part of an effort to meet government demands for the United States auto industry to become more competitive. General Motors announced Wednesday it would end its job bank program next week.



According to UAW Local 72 President Glenn Stark, there were 711 Chrysler employees in job banks nationwide. “It’s about 1.2 percent of our total Chrysler employees in the U.S.” Stark said.


In Kenosha, he said, there were 21 people in the program.
Stark said in recent years, so many Kenosha workers retired there were only a small percentage of people who became eligible for the program.


The job bank program began about 25 years ago. After laid off workers

were on unemployment for 48 weeks, they could be eligible for the job bank, which would pay them nearly full pay and benefits in exchange for reporting to the factory, where they could be assigned tasks around the plant or to community service projects.


In Kenosha, those in the job bank were assigned to community service programs like working at Bong Recreation Area, the Racine Zoo or the Kenosha Achievement Center.


According to Stark, the program was designed to promote job security for union members, and to help the company keep workers who would likely find jobs elsewhere on extended layoff.


But, over time, the program became a focus of critics who saw it as a symbol of excess by the UAW and wasteful spending by the automakers.


In December, UAW President Rob Gettelfinger said the union would suspend the job bank after members of Congress criticized the program. It was one of a series of concessions made by the union, including earlier agreements to cut new workers’ pay in half and reductions in retiree benefits.


More: http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/end_of_chrysler_job_bank_affects_21_in_kenosha_427 8416.html

[James48843]

GM Tonawanda lays off 65; job bank ends



Workers at the General Motors Corp. (http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/related_content.html?topic=General%20Motors%20Corp ) Tonawanda engine plant have learned the impact on them of the recently announced production cutbacks at GM’s U.S. assembly plants.

The plant disclosed today that 65 additional hourly employees will be placed on indefinite layoff as of Jan. 30.

As with earlier layoffs, blame was placed on a slowdown in orders caused by slumping new vehicle sales.

GM (NYSE: GM) announced on Jan. 26 that it will cut 2,000 jobs at plants in Michigan and Ohio, including Lordstown, Ohio, that receives Tonawanda-built 4-cylinder engines for the Chevrolet Cobalt.

The impact on salaried employees at the local plant is still being determined, spokeswoman Nina Price said in a statement.

In the Jan. 26 announcement, the Detroit automaker said it will halt production for several weeks at nine plants over the next six months and alternate schedules at its Lordstown plant starting Feb. 9 and end the second shift on April 6.

A second shift at GM’s Lansing, Mich., plant will be eliminated on March 30.
Currently about one-third of the 1,165-member workforce at Tonawanda are on indefinite layoff. The plant also has about 260 salaried workers.
GM also announced today that on Feb. 2 it will end its jobs-bank program, which provides hourly workers with most of their pay and benefits during layoff.

Chrysler LLC (http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/related_content.html?topic=Chrysler%20LLC) ended its own jobs bank recently.

The moves help satisfy conditions of the federal government imposed when it lent the automakers $17.4 billion late last year.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2009/01/26/daily40.html

[James48843]

GM Jobs Bank Closes After 25 Years

Chrysler Dropped Its Job Bank Last Week, Ford Negotiating With UAW To End Program

UPDATED: 6:46 pm EST February 2, 2009

SAGINAW, Mich. -- For more than two decades, General Motors union workers have been able to rely on a paycheck, even when there wasn’t enough work.But tough economic times are hitting the Big Three hard and GM cannot afford to be generous anymore.Monday marked the end of an era as the Jobs Bank program was forced to end under an agreement with the federal government.For GM to get the bailout loan, it had to agree to terminate the jobs bank.

The move has sent hundreds of people to the unemployment line.Monday Tony Saunders went to the unemployment office in Saginaw.Last week he received a letter from GM alerting him to the upcoming jobs bank closure.

The jobs bank has been a part of the UAW workforce and the auto industry for 25 years.Saunders had been in the jobs bank since 2007, and now he’s not sure what he’s going to do.For 35 years, Saunders worked at Saginaw’s Malleable Iron. The plant closed in 2007 and instead of sitting around his Westside Saginaw union hall, or sitting at home, Saunders volunteered his time by working for Saginaw’s United Way.With the closure of the jobs bank, Saunders health care benefits and his volunteer work at the United Way came to an end.He is now looking for a job in a struggling economy, hoping for the best.

Around 1,600 workers are in the program and all will need to file for unemployment.Chrysler ended its jobs bank last week and Ford is in talks with the UAW to eliminate its program as well.The UAW also announced Monday that GM is working to reduce its factory workforce by offering early retirement and buyout packages to all hourly union workers.The company is offering $20,000 cash and a $25,000 voucher towards a new vehicle.

[James48843]

Jobs bank's demise sets end for some Saginaw GM workers

by Bree Fowler | The Associated Press and Jean Spenner | The Saginaw News Thursday January 29, 2009, 7:07 AM


http://blog.mlive.com/sagbusiness_impact/2008/11/medium_GMlogo.jpg
NEW YORK -- General Motors Corp. said it will end its "jobs bank" Monday, following a similar move at Chrysler.

The move, which the company announced Wednesday, helps satisfy conditions the government imposed when it lent the automakers $17.4 billion late last year.


Workers in the jobs bank receive most of their pay and benefits while laid off -- sometimes for years. It was the target of much ire during the companies' requests for a federal bailout.


United Auto Workers Amalgamated Local 455 union leader Paul Madejek was peeved that he first saw the news on the Internet.


"I found out on Yahoo," said Madejek, 55, bargaining chairman for workers at Saginaw Malleable Iron Plant, 77 W. Center in Saginaw which closed in May 2007. "No one from the international or regional union office called me."


Union leaders promised that the 50 or so workers that remained when the Powertrain Division foundry closed its doors would eventually have work at a GM plant, Madejek said. Thirty-three of those workers remain in the jobs bank.


"They said we would be going to (Saginaw Metal Casting Operations)," he said. Metal Casting, 1629 N. Washington in Saginaw, is a sister Powertrain Division foundry.


Madejek said he doesn't know what he or the other workers will do.


"That's 33 more people in Saginaw taking a pay cut," he said. At 55, Madejek added he doesn't want to retire.


The 1,600 GM workers in the jobs bank will go on layoff and need to file for unemployment, GM spokesman Tony Sapienza said. They'll receive about 72 percent of their salaries, which state unemployment benefits and GM subsidies will pay for.


Christine Moroski, a UAW spokeswoman, declined to comment.


While in the jobs bank, workers often did volunteer work or community service jobs. In Saginaw, workers helped at the United Way and at the Castle Museum, Madejek said.


The move will allow cash-strapped GM to use state unemployment benefits to help cover some of the costs of paying the workers, Sapienza said.
Union officials said late last week that Chrysler was eliminating its jobs bank effective Jan. 26. Like at Detroit-based GM, Chrysler's affected workers will receive supplemental pay to make up much of their wages after unemployment compensation.


Auburn Hills-based Chrysler also had to eliminate its jobs bank as a condition of its $4 billion in Treasury Department loans. GM was granted $13.4 billion and has received $9.4 billion of those funds.


Both automakers must submit plans by Feb. 17 showing that they can become viable. If the Treasury isn't satisfied with the plans, the government could call in the loans at the end of March.


Ford Motor Co. didn't take any government money, but company officials and UAW president Ron Gettelfinger have said they expect the Dearborn-based automaker to get the same concessions as the other companies so it's not disadvantaged.



Source: http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-michigan/index.ssf/2009/01/jobs_banks_demise_sets_end_for.html

[James48843]

Unemployment hits 24.2% in one michigan county:

"It's a very humbling experience to have to collect unemployment, and it looks like I might even have to go on food stamps. It's embarrassing," said McCormick, who said she and her two daughters will likely have to move into her parents home in Drayton Plains. "My girls don't want to leave their school and their friends, but I may not have a choice if I can't make my house payment."

The numbers were equally bleak in counties neighboring Lapeer County in December.

In Sanilac County the jobless rate jumped to 15.5%, in Tuscola County 13.7% of the workforce was out of a job, 13.5% in St. Clair County, 12.3% in Genesee County, 10.9% in Macomb County, and 8.6% in Oakland County.

Elsewhere in the region, Huron County recorded a jobless rate of 12.4%, Saginaw County 10.4%, while to the south in Wayne County the unemployment rate in December was 11.7%.

The state's lowest unemployment rate for December was in Washtenaw County (Ann Arbor) with 6.9%, while Mackinac County in the Upper Peninsula had the highest jobless rate with 24.2%.

In December, around three-quarters of Michigan's counties (63) reported jobless rates of 10% or above.

Source: http://www.countypress.com/stories/020109/loc_20090201147.shtml

[James48843]

GM SALES DOWN 49% IN JANUARY

Detroit-based GM sold 128,198 light vehicles in January, while Ford's sales totaled 93,060. Toyota sold 117,287 cars and trucks.

GM said its fleet sales fell 80 percent to just over 13,000 vehicles in January, marking their lowest sales level since 1975. GM's retail sales fell 38 percent.

Dearborn-based Ford said January's drop in sales of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles included a 27 percent drop in retail sales and a 65 percent decline in fleet sales.

U.S. sales at Ford's Sweden-based Volvo division fell 64 percent to 2,910 vehicles in January, from 8,036 a year earlier. The company is exploring a possible sale of the unit.

Toyota Motor Corp.'s sales of light trucks fell 35 percent on about equal declines in SUV and pickup truck demand, while its car sales dropped 29 percent. Sales of its Prius hybrid slid 29 percent.

Honda Motor Co.'s car sales fell 27 percent and its truck sales dropped 29 percent, but the Japanese automaker saw a 6 percent increase in sales of its Fit subcompact, and sales of the updated Acura TSX sports sedan rose 16 percent.

[McDuck]

rdrp8vIoofA

[McDuck]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_021809/content/01125111.guest.html

Automakers Must Regain Swagger and Sell Cars That Americans Want February 18, 2009
(http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/Rush247.guest.html)

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/spc.gif
RUSH: The automobile companies are next in line with their hands out. General Motors and Chrysler are asking for, what is it, the number being bandied about is $16 billion for General Motors, but I've seen a total of 30 mentioned elsewhere. Let me find it here in the stack. Yeah, GM needs up to $30 billion. Yes, and, by the way, we've got official news, both Obama and the Congress are calling for a second stimulus package. I'll have the details in just a second. First I want to tell you about the automobile dealers. "General Motors Corp said on Tuesday it could need a total of up to $30 billion in U.S. government aid -- more than doubling its original aid -- and would run out of cash as soon as March without new federal funding." Now, GM and Chrysler, back in the fall, said they would run out of cash when, if they didn't get the first bailout? January or something like that? My point is, regardless how much money they're given, at some point they're going to run out. The focal point here is that people need to buy cars. If General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, if they're going to rebound, people need to buy their cars.

"The request for additional aid from the top U.S. automaker came in a restructuring plan GM submitted to U.S. officials on Tuesday. The GM restructuring plan of more than 100 pages was posted on the U.S. Treasury website." Now, here's the dilemma about this. The first thing you have to understand, these automobile dealers are located in Michigan. There are no jobs in Michigan. So here's the question. Do we the taxpayers bail out the auto companies, which is essentially bailing out the unions, I mean when you strip it down to bare facts, we are talking about bailing out employees, or not bailing out employees. If we bail out the car companies, the theory is that at least their people will be employed in the state of Michigan, where there are no jobs. And then General Motors and Chrysler can go about continuing to try to make cars that people want to buy, theoretically. Or, we don't bail 'em out and they run out of money and they have to file capital 11 or just plain go out of business, at which case all the autoworkers are unemployed and you know what will happen then. We will subsidize their unemployment with unemployment benefits.

Now, we will not subsidize their unemployment at their current salaries, their annual salaries and benefits and all that. But that's the dilemma, and there's a third option here. Filing Chapter 11, which the automobile companies say they don't want to do because people aren't going to buy anything made by a company in bankruptcy, the question has to be asked, are they buying anything now? Are they buying enough product from Ford, General Motor, and Chrysler, to stave off any crisis that they're facing? It doesn't appear so because they keep coming back and asking for more money. So if we let 'em go Chapter 11, they can reorganize and at least start to run the company, reorganize in a way that they can run responsibly. That would put the unions out and this is all about saving the unions. I want to prepare you for the argument, "Well, we've gotta protect these jobs." There are no jobs in Michigan. So if the auto companies go belly up, if they go out of business, all these union workers, the United Auto Workers employees, the subsidiaries, where are they going to go to get work? They won't and that's bad for all of us, it's bad for the economy, so the pressure to continue to provide bailout money for the autoworkers is going to be to keep people employed because that helps all of us.

Now, I want to make one last comment on all of this and then I'm going to get off of this because it really bothers me. A business plan that focuses on cuts and reductions only, which is what we're dealing with, I mean, they're gonna cut Saturn, they're gonna eliminate Saturn, they're gonna basically have four brands with Pontiac as a special order. Going to do Buick, GMC, Cadillac, and Chevrolet, get rid of Saturn and so forth, they're going to keep the Hummer. They're going to get rid of the small cars that Saturn makes. A business plan that focuses on cuts and reductions, I mean, it must be done, obviously, but it frightens me a little bit. Bankers and creditors are an important part of any budget going forward, but so are customers. A business has to be relentless in how it markets itself. It's always talking to its customers, its future customers, it's always building confidence in the future, and not just by promising cutbacks. Right now, the auto companies are not even concerned about talking primarily to customers. They are concerned with persuading Washington. The automobile companies are forced into a situation here where they have to sell whatever they have to sell, and it isn't cars in this case, to Washington.

Governments are better by being smaller. Private companies are at their best when they're expanding, efficient spending is supposed to be a given. A business plan does not exist in a vacuum, is my point. Customers are going to watch how this is marketed as closely as how the cars are marketed. See, the thing is, we all want General Motors to succeed. General Motors is a legacy in this country. It's a tradition. We want Ford to succeed, Chrysler. We want these companies to succeed. They say they can't take bankruptcy because some studies indicate people won't buy cars from a bankrupt company. Now, I think that if a company can tell the world why they have never been more excited about the future post-bankruptcy, they can inspire confidence. Trump understands this. Trump, regardless what's going on, is always confident, he's always positive, he is enthusiastic, and you have to be. That's part of the job. Selling is always part of the job. The car companies have lost their swagger. I wish they could get it back. The American people want to support General Motors and Ford and Chrysler. The American people are rooting for those companies. But we want to feel like we're rooting for people who refuse to fail.

We want people to lead, who are fearless, promise to make products we'll absolutely fall in love with. That's not going to happen as long as these companies are cowering in the corner in fear of Congress. The American people want to see courage; they want to see leadership, independence. We want to see out of those executives exactly what we want out of the cars that they are selling. I see a totally defensive, negative posture, and who can blame 'em. They're totally prisoners now to Washington. What's happening to the automobile companies is a microcosm of what's going to happen to anybody who becomes totally dependent on Washington, when you live in constant fear. You can't make a move without their approval. They don't know what to approve or what not to approve because they're not experts and their motivation for approving things is going to be based on satisfying constituencies that have nothing to do with selling cars. This is a vicious cycle.

Cessna, on the other hand, set the standard. Here is an industry that's under assault by the federal government, the Cessna CEO runs a full-page ad telling CEOs to buck up, to grow a pair, in essence, and remember what it was like to dream big things. That's how you market yourself, boldness, strength, independence, be your product. You got a car that goes zero to 60 in 4.5 seconds, be an executive that can do it, too. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/spc.gif
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/spc.gif
END TRANSCRIPT

[James48843]

RUSH:

Cessna, on the other hand, set the standard. Here is an industry that's under assault by the federal government, the Cessna CEO runs a full-page ad telling CEOs to buck up, to grow a pair, in essence, and remember what it was like to dream big things. That's how you market yourself, boldness, strength, independence, be your product. You got a car that goes zero to 60 in 4.5 seconds, be an executive that can do it, too. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/spc.gif
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/spc.gif
END TRANSCRIPT


"Cessna CEO runs a full-page ad telling CEOs to buck up, to grow a pair, in essence, and remember what it was like to dream big things".

Cessna CEO Jack Pelton recognizes that his customer base is cancelling their jet orders. Of course Jack will run a full page ad telling his customers to thumb their noses at everyone, and go ahead and buy a Cessna. What else would you expect him to do?


http://www.flyingmag.com/news/1350/cessna-hawker-beechcraft-announce-new-rounds-of-layoffs.html


Cessna Wichita:
Cessna, Hawker Beechcraft Announce New Rounds of Layoffs

By Mark Phelps
2/6/2009
The general aviation manufacturing segment continues to be pummeled by the current economic crisis. Last week, Cessna announced another 2,000 pink slips will be distributed, bringing the total to 4,600 since the country's financial downturn began. Most of the new layoffs will be in Wichita. Cessna has suffered mightily from canceled orders, with a reported $64 million drop in fourth-quarter 2008 revenues compared with the same period in 2007. Across town, Hawker Beechcraft Corp. (HBC) announced an additional 2,300 layoffs are imminent, adding to the 490 job losses announced earlier. The new layoffs represent a quarter of HBC's overall workforce.

[James48843]

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX),Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, “If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.”


In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating:

If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash........
twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation'warning light.



7. The airbag system would ask 'Are you sure?' before deploying.



8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again be cause none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10. You'd have to press the 'Start' button to turn the engine off.



PS - I'd like to add that when all else fails, you could call 'customer service' in some foreign country and be instructed in some foreign language how to fix your car yourself!!!!

[ChemEng]

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating
...published in a full double sized ad published in one of the Nation's largest newspapers paid with money taken from the taxpayers.

[McDuck]

Auto bailout tab could top $130 billion (http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/18/news/companies/auto_bailout/index.htm)

[McDuck]

Obama auto team drives imports; Task force has few new American cars (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090223/AUTO01/902230327)

[James48843]

If You’re a ‘Little Guy,’ a Contract Means Nothing




Posted on Mar 19, 2009

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090318_the_more_things_stay_the_same/


By Marie Cocco (http://www.truthdig.com/about/staff/65)

(http://www.truthdig.com/about/staff/65)
With due deference to George Orwell, all contracts are equal. But some contracts are more equal than others.

Contracts entered into by the hotshots at American International Group for $165 million in bonuses, signed just months before their web of financial cunning unraveled, are inviolate. Contracts entered into by shop-floor workers at auto plants must be renegotiated, so that the taxpayers who bail out the industry don’t coddle supposedly overpaid union members.

Contracts that secured “retention” bonuses for the same wizards who engineered the flimsy financial products that helped bring down the world economy went to 73 individuals who received $1 million or more—with the top honcho getting $6.4 million. Contracts that secured retiree health benefits for autoworkers with creation of a special trust are being rewritten so that carmakers can use their own cut-rate stocks, not cash, to help fund their obligation to elderly people who once worked on assembly lines.

Contracts that were crafted at AIG early in 2008—a few months before taxpayers sent their first installment of bailout money to the insatiable insurance giant—must stand. The deals guaranteed that some bonus recipients would lock in as much money as they had received in 2007, before the company’s downward spiral.

Contracts agreed to by the United Auto Workers in 2007 trimmed wages and created the controversial trust for retiree health benefits that allowed the automakers to effectively remove some costs of the promised benefits from their own balance sheets. That contract does not stand.

As just renegotiated by Ford—which didn’t take federal bailout money—and the UAW, workers gave up cost-of-living adjustments, two years of “bonuses” they’d been promised instead of wage hikes, vacation days, break time and other benefits. Rules are to be changed so that workers can stay on the job more than eight hours in variable shifts, without being paid overtime.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger told Congress in December that workers and retirees both were ready “to make further sacrifices” to ensure the industry’s viability in the wake of the credit crisis—a crisis caused in part by AIG’s exotic financial instruments. “We are willing to do our part,” Gettelfinger told the Senate Banking Committee.

AIG chief Edward Liddy told a House subcommittee Wednesday that though he runs a company now 80 percent owned by the taxpayers, it still must operate as a business that takes account of the “cold realities” of competition for customers, revenue and, yes, employees. Because of this and “certain legal obligations,” the big bonus payouts went into the pockets of some of the people who messed up the credit markets so badly that average Americans now have trouble getting car loans and auto dealers struggle to keep operating.

AIG has thus far received $170 billion in taxpayer money. General Motors, the car company considered to be in the deepest trouble, got $13.4 billion. GM is currently in negotiations with the UAW that are likely to result in more concessions from the union.

Larry Summers, the chief White House economic adviser, said on Sunday that AIG’s bonuses had to go through because “there are contracts. The government cannot just abrogate contracts.” Summers made the comments to ABC News three days after President Barack Obama learned of the bonus payments but uttered not a word publicly about them.

Now the White House and Congress are ablaze with indignation and vow to try to recoup every penny.

New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, quicker and more sure-footed than the lethargic Obama administration, got an accounting of how the millions were doled out. It shows, among other things, that 11 of those who received “retention” bonuses of $1 million or more—including an employee who pocketed $4.6 million—no longer work at the firm. The top seven bonus recipients received more than $4 million each.

The top-tier wage for production workers at UAW plants is about $28 an hour. New hires are paid $14 an hour.

Cuomo conveyed the preliminary results of his AIG probe in a letter to Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. “Something is deeply wrong with this outcome,” Cuomo wrote.
Something, indeed.

Marie Cocco’s e-mail address is mariecocco(at)washpost.com.
© 2009, Washington Post Writers Group

[McDuck]

GM unlikely to meet restructuring deadline (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/03/28/GM_unlikely_to_meet_restructuring_deadline/UPI-25661238244496/)
United Press International - ‎4 hours ago‎

[McDuck]

Card Check Process Used by Union Organizers Ignites Fury (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_13_0_t&usg=AFQjCNG_6zQIBomc-PieHVrlUyW2eUOrFA&cid=1316088641&ei=KGPOSdjcHcqPmAfCs_Mi&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.foxnews.com%2F%7Er%2Ffoxnew s%2Fpolitics%2F%7E3%2FZ-SPZMG1blk%2Fcard-check-process-used-union-organizers-ignites-fury-indiana-plant)
FOXNews - ‎Mar 25, 2009‎

[McDuck]

Ford Says UAW Pact Closes Wage Gap With Rivals (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_54_0_t&usg=AFQjCNFijXT58AWTxhJT1vUa0AZyt0fn6Q&cid=0&ei=KGPOSdjcHcqPmAfCs_Mi&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FBT-CO-20090311-714298.html)
Wall Street Journal - ‎Mar 11, 2009‎

[McDuck]

Time to let GM go?
(http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_23_0_t&usg=AFQjCNH7_jrg4hlrMQpsqXu-nlqkSirgiw&cid=0&ei=b2XOSfCqK8qPmAfCs_Mi&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcaps.fool.com%2Fblogs%2Fviewpost. aspx%3Fbpid%3D158983%26t%3D01008346235243063449)Mo tley Fool - ‎Mar 8, 2009‎

[James48843]

Card Check Process Used by Union Organizers Ignites Fury (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_13_0_t&usg=AFQjCNG_6zQIBomc-PieHVrlUyW2eUOrFA&cid=1316088641&ei=KGPOSdjcHcqPmAfCs_Mi&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.foxnews.com%2F%7Er%2Ffoxnew s%2Fpolitics%2F%7E3%2FZ-SPZMG1blk%2Fcard-check-process-used-union-organizers-ignites-fury-indiana-plant)
FOXNews - ‎Mar 25, 2009‎

ANd you know who gave that story to FOX news?

The Albion, Indiana vote to terminate the Union was organized by the anti-Union "National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation" organization:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOJEXi8YH2Q


That organization is funded by corporations for the express purpose of breaking unions.


What they DIDN'T say in the Fox News Story, is that workers at
10 OTHER DANA Corp plants also voted to GET a Union.

See the REAL story here:
http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/08/0208/feature03.php

[McDuck]

Unions. A thing of the past, aka a dinosaur that is lying dying on the ground, but IBEW's and Autoworkers keep it on life support. Unions have far far outlived their usefulness, and are merely a vehicle for corruption.

They are nothing more than legitimized bootthugs, like attorneys. They have ruined productivity, quality and integrity of American products in our country in the last 25 years!

[BULLonPARADE]

Are those darn unions are getting in the way? SORRY. I guess we should do away with USC 5 also? Dismantle the FLRA and the NLRB, would that make you happy? How about OSHA and EEO, they must have caused trouble. Should they also go? Management always does the right thing, even when no one is looking...right?

"A thing of the past" - No, I think labor unions and collective bargaining will around for a while. BTW, It's kind of funny you quote Hillary in your signature with your adamant anti-union stance.

[McDuck]

Obama demands deeper cuts in auto workers’ jobs, wages, benefits
(http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_0_0_t&usg=AFQjCNG0RVTBGLQ5FGUp6KMNtjsWTgeBlw&cid=0&ei=Y5fRSYiCNs2fmAf4gNXEAQ&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsws.org%2Farticles%2F2009%2F mar2009%2Fauto-m31.shtml)World Socialist Web Site - ‎6 minutes ago‎

Obama declares war on auto workers
(http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_1_0_t&usg=AFQjCNEZQSpmw2xUe6EZ3VCirAtYZxeROw&cid=0&ei=Y5fRSYiCNs2fmAf4gNXEAQ&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsws.org%2Farticles%2F2009%2F mar2009%2Fpers-m31.shtml)World Socialist Web Site - ‎6 minutes ago‎

[McDuck]

Op-Ed Contributor One Roadblock Too Many for GM (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_15_0_t&usg=AFQjCNGKCyLb1ccQJ1b1Yo8ddXygER5ylw&cid=1322646144&ei=Y5fRSYiCNs2fmAf4gNXEAQ&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2009%2F03%2F31% 2Fopinion%2F31holstein.html)
New York Times - ‎1 hour ago‎

[McDuck]

Pastor Manning has a new message for us today.
He mentions that Hitler had his Volkswagen and that Obama will have his own people's car.

NGi4bEuiHVE

[McDuck]

Labor Unions Don’t Serve the Workers, They Help Themselves (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/11200)

[McDuck]

They Can Build Them; Why Can't We? (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_9_0_t&usg=AFQjCNFwm3qoAHhzFGGWmvGQTWMakeogtg&cid=1249365881&ei=ihsfSoisKKaw8gSvo6JJ&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2F2009%2F05%2F27%2 Fauto-manufacturing-detroit-business-unions.html)

Forbes - ‎1 hour ago‎


http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/forbes_logo_blue.gif


They Can Build Them; Why Can't We?

Jerry Flint, 05.28.09, 6:00 PM ETChrysler is bankrupt and General
Motors may be next. Both those companies and Ford Motor--which is neither bankrupt nor on the dole from the federal government--are shutting plants. In contrast, the non-U.S. automakers are still building U.S. factories. Volkswagen is erecting an assembly plant in Tennessee, Kia Motors has a plant going up in Georgia, and Toyota Motor is putting one up in Mississippi, although it has delayed opening there because of the slump in auto sales.

Foreign auto manufacturers and suppliers already have a massive presence in the U.S. Many of these new transplant factories are in the Sun Belt: South Carolina (BMW), Mississippi (Nissan), Tennessee (Nissan), Alabama (Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai), Texas (Toyota), and Kentucky (Toyota).

The foreigners do have a few plants in the North, too: Honda in Ohio and Indiana, and Toyota and Subaru-Toyota in Indiana.

Most of the foreign-owned plants are non-union, with a few exceptions. Mitsubishi has a unionized plant in Illinois, though the future of that factory is uncertain. Mazda builds cars in a Ford-run plant in Michigan, and there is a unionized Toyota-GM joint venture in Fremont, Calif. Italy's Fiat plans to build its vehicles in one or more Chrysler facilities (all of Chrysler's plants are unionized).

This transplant industry is replacing Detroit's manufacturing. Through mid May, all North American assembly plants (including Canada and Mexico) have built 2.77 million cars and light trucks, half the production level of the year-earlier period. Of these, Detroit's Big Three have built only 1.5 million of these vehicles, just 268,000 more than the transplants.

It may only be weeks or a few months before the transplants will be building more vehicles here than our old Big Three. The foreign producers have reduced production in this downturn, but they have not permanently closed plants. Except for the Mitsubishi factory in Illinois, the others all seem safe.

When times are good, these American transplants are quite profitable--in fact, they are the greatest earning centers for Toyota and Honda. But it wasn't always this way: A while back, I recall the chief financial officer of Toyota (he later became chief executive) coming to America and telling me: "General Motors makes money manufacturing cars in the U.S. Ford makes money building cars in the U.S. I'm here to find out why we aren't making money building cars in the U.S."

Toyota solved its problems, while the Detroit automakers collapsed. One reason: the unions.

The Detroit auto plants are all unionized (United Auto Workers), and union stewards are on the company payroll at every car plant, at a cost of millions of dollars. The UAW works to keep the production pace down. One "transplant" plant manager who used to work for Detroit figures his people were working 10% faster that at a Detroit plant. If Detroit workers did 50 jobs an hour, his people did 55.

Detroit pay and benefits ran about $55 an hour, vs. an average of $45 for the transplants, with Korean automakers paying less. Those "legacy" costs--health care and pension payments to retirees--add another $16 an hour to the domestics' costs. So Detroit's total labor runs about $70 to $75 an hour, vs. $49 for Japanese transplants.

[McDuck]

continued

In the current crisis, the union has been making big concessions, but it's too late. The transplant workers are new, young and country-style.

Suddenly, they had real jobs and futures--instead of pumping gas or growing old working at burger joints. The Big Three workers are older, tired and often from urban environments. Doing less was always the goal, and they bragged about it, too, which is why auto workers may not be particularly popular, even in their own towns. Foreign manufacturers, with American plant managers, won over their factory workers with a new culture: uniforms for everyone, democracy in the parking lot and no executive dining rooms.

The foreign culture was about more than parking spaces. Its real focus was on eliminating class warfare from the factory floor. The Japanese and the Germans, too, put particular emphasis on teamwork and quality. Detroit talked a lot about quality but did not always deliver on its promises. Quality means everything from poor fit and finish, gaps between exterior and interior parts, hard plastic that looks cheap and transmissions that break down at 50,000 miles. My favorite Detroit expression was "perceived quality." That meant if you paid $30,000 for a car and found a scratch in the door, it wasn't a quality issue. Why? The car still ran, so it was "perceived quality."

Listen to Robert Dewar, who worked at Ford's Sharonville, Ohio, transmission plant in the late 1970s: "Final quality fluctuated with the amount of power granted to the Quality Control Department. When sales were strong and growing, QC was treated like an annoyance that was getting in the way of making the numbers. If a QC supervisor tried to be a hero, and made a stand, production simply went to engineering and got an 'engineering deviation,' which allowed the use of defective parts in the interests of production. So much for control of quality."

As quality complaints piled up, Detroit tried to imitate the foreigners, and we heard a lot about quality programs, quality circles and quality gurus. Why didn't they succeed? Robert Dewer's book, A Savage Factory (http://www.authorhouse.com/Bookstore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=58146), describes the factory floor like a constant war between rival street gangs, management vs. the union and workers. His book is well worth a read.
Toyota took over a badly managed GM plant in California; it was a joint venture, but the Japanese ran the plant. GM sent young executives to work there and learn Toyota's manufacturing and quality techniques. They learned, but when they came back to GM, the GM bureaucracy would not change its ways.

Under former Chief Executive Roger Smith, GM set up the new Saturn factory with a new type of work-together atmosphere with the UAW: no time clocks, annual pay and teams. The company and the union both hated the new ideas, and when Roger was gone and the UAW got a new president, they worked at--and eventually succeeded in--destroying the Saturn brand.

Even the good car people--like Robert Lutz, who saved Chrysler and led the product revival at GM before its fall--did not believe there was a quality gap between Detroit's cars and the transplants. But mechanics working on cars knew better, when they kept finding failures in sub-assemblies such as the heating and air conditioning systems, which are hard to get at and expensive to repair.

Detroit's problems go beyond the factory floor; Washington also deserves blame for the catastrophe. Our politicians refused to defend the auto industry, allowing the Japanese to develop their car business here with imports paid for with undervalued currency. Our government never insisted on realistic currency exchange, or that foreign countries, including Japan and Korea, allow our companies to manufacture on their soil and sell in their markets.

Why wasn't our government more demanding? The Pentagon and the State Department were more interested in seeing Japan and South Korea with strong capitalistic economies and as bastions against communism. They never really cared about Midwestern metal-benders.

Asian nations were not overt, but instead used subtle means to discourage U.S. companies from making strong inroads into their markets. Ford, for example, once announced it would build an assembly plant in Yokohama, Japan. Then the authorities condemned the site for the construction of a sewage plant. At one time, the South Korean equivalent of the IRS investigated anyone who bought a foreign car. The exception: If a foreign company was going down, foreign governments allowed the Americans to come in and save it, as the Koreans allowed GM to take over and rescue Daewoo.

Then there are government rules and regulations: the Environmental Protection Agency, Occupational Safety and Health Administration and others. This is not to say that all those rules on worker safety, on pollution and everything else are not good, but they do push up costs. We know the same rules do not exist in China, Mexico and South Korea.

State governments have also done their share to help cripple the home team. They heavily subsidized the building of new plants by foreign car makers. Such aid included paying for roads, water and sewage, worker training and tax relief. A $500 million subsidy per plant was not unusual. Foreigners have been building cars in new, modern factories, built for flexible production, with tax abatements, while Detroit companies were stuck in less efficient plants.

At one time, General Motors considered a Southern strategy--building new plants in areas where workers were unlikely to vote in a union. The United Auto Workers made it clear it would fight, legally or illegally--meaning strikes, slowdowns and chaos in GM's more northern plants. GM gave up on the idea.

What about Detroit's managers? Exports from America were never important to them: GM and Ford believed in building the cars that people wanted, but building them in their respective markets. Thus, they had operations in Europe that built cars the Europeans liked, and the same in South America and China. That was fine, but American executives also had a prejudice against small cars and small engines. In the Midwest, bigger is better.

The truth is that a smaller car costs nearly as much to build as a bigger car, and our execs could not see how they could sell a smaller car unless its sticker price was considerably below that of a bigger car. This enormous mistake opened the market here to the foreign automakers, which developed a growing market for smaller cars, and then moved up-market to bigger, more expensive and higher-margined vehicles.

It has not helped that the modern leaders of Detroit were preoccupied with Wall Street, the stock price, quarterly projections and stockholder values. In contrast, the Japanese focused on product quality and engineering, and continuously improving their factory systems.

One more thing: Car plants become profitable when running full and with overtime. To do that, the car companies must build vehicles the customers want. Detroit's managers not only didn't care about the factories, they didn't care about the products or understand American car buyers.
Times have changed. The worker-management battles in Detroit's factories may have ended. The union and companies may embrace each other, and the quality may be as good as the foreign competition. Unfortunately, Detroit may have already damaged its reputation beyond repair.

Yes, Washington's lack of interest and support, state subsidies of foreign manufacturing, high union wages and inflexible work rules all hurt domestic car companies. But the failure of American managers to build better cars is what really has led to the crisis in Detroit.

[James48843]

They Can Build Them; Why Can't We? (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_9_0_t&usg=AFQjCNFwm3qoAHhzFGGWmvGQTWMakeogtg&cid=1249365881&ei=ihsfSoisKKaw8gSvo6JJ&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2F2009%2F05%2F27%2 Fauto-manufacturing-detroit-business-unions.html)
...
When times are good, these American transplants are quite profitable--in fact, they are the greatest earning centers for Toyota and Honda. But it wasn't always this way: A while back, I recall the chief financial officer of Toyota (he later became chief executive) coming to America and telling me: "General Motors makes money manufacturing cars in the U.S. Ford makes money building cars in the U.S. I'm here to find out why we aren't making money building cars in the U.S."

Toyota solved its problems, while the Detroit automakers collapsed. One reason: the unions.

.

I disagree. So easy to blame Unions- when that simply fits your preconceived notions about how things are.

If you want to know the heart of the problem, take a look at this master's thesis from 1991, which outlined many of the issues:

http://epi.3cdn.net/30067e5f476cedcaf2_76m6bgb75.pdf

Transplant companies don't have legacy costs like retirement costs, because, first of all, they haven't been here long enough to have a significant retirement debt load- plus they fire employees routinely just before they qualify for any retirement plan.

Add to that tax breaks given by states and localities to transplant plants, outright gifts of money by units of government to bring jobs - and the overhead disappears for the transplant companies.

Add to that the business model that Ford, Chrysler and GM have now adopted- that of having suppliers build the parts at wages 40% to 60% of company employees, and then only become "final assembly" companies, yet have the legacy health care costs and pension costs from a century of being an entire production company (54,000 employees now having to shoulder the burden of 400,000 retirees, for example), and you have a really bad situation to start with.

It's easy to blame it on the Unions.

It's simply not true that it would be significantly different cost wise if Unions weren't in place. GM would STILL have significant legacy costs that Toyota and Honda don't have, simply because Toyota and Honda weren't here building cars and racking up retirement costs in the 1950s and 1960s. They were still enjoying their American foreign aid --and rebuilding brand new plants and facilities in Japan- aid given to them in large part - by the U.S. taxpayer, to recover their shattered economy after WWII.

[James48843]

Here you go Buster-

The Chinese are buying Hummer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_bi_ge/us_automakers

GM to sell Hummer to Chinese company

By TOM KRISHER and BREE FOWLER, AP Auto Writers Tom Krisher And Bree Fowler, Ap Auto Writers 1 hr 8 mins ago
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. took a key step toward its downsizing on Tuesday, striking a tentative deal to sell its Hummer brand to a Chinese manufacturer, while also revealing that it has potential buyers for its Saturn and Saab brands.
China's Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. said Tuesday afternoon that it reached an agreement to acquire the brand from GM for an undisclosed ammount. The Detroit automaker had announced Tuesday morning that it had a memorandum of understanding to sell the brand of rugged SUVs, but it didn't identify the buyer.
Sichuan Tengzhong deals in road construction, plastics, resins and other industrial products, but Hummer would be its first step into the automotive business.
GM said the sale will likely save more than 3,000 U.S. jobs in manufacturing, engineering and at various Hummer dealerships. Tengzhong said it will assume GM's existing agreements with Hummer dealers.
"We will be investing in the Hummer brand and its research and development capabilities, which will allow Hummer to better meet demand for new products such as more fuel-efficient vehicles in the U.S," Chief Executive Yang Yi said in a statement.
As part of the proposed transaction, Hummer will continue to contract vehicle manufacturing and business services from GM during a transitional period. For example, GM's Shreveport, La., assembly plant would continue to contract to assemble the H3 and H3T through at least 2010, GM said. AM General LLC in Mishawaka, Ind., makes the larger H2 under contract for GM.
Hummer will keep its existing management team and remain based in the United States, the companies said. Tengzhong said it expects to expand the brand's dealer network worldwide, including to China.
"GM is close to a sale of its Hummer brand, which is good news for the 3,000 Americans who will be able to keep their jobs, the two American plants that will remain open and the more than 100 Hummer dealers that should be able to stay in business all around the country," White House spokesman Bill Burton said earlier in the day.

[James48843]

So....you know, there was a German Company that was interested in bidding- (here comes the jokes...)

Bavarian Auto Holdings was interested in doing a joint venture with Volkswagon to buy Hummer.

The car was going to be called....(get ready for it...)


the BAH-HUM-BUG.


But now a Chinese Company - Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery - has signed a deal to buy it.

No word yet on the new name, but one source said they were considering naming the new entity after the former Chairman of the Communist Party in Vietnam- Ho Chi Mihn.

So the resulting company would be called....


HO-HUM.


(aaaahhhhhrrrgggg)

[Bullitt]

I disagree. So easy to blame Unions- when that simply fits your preconceived notions about how things are.

I agree. Let's not forget that management agreed to all Union grievances that became policy.

What's Wall Street know what it's like to be part in a Union? I bet they wish they had a Union after all the fraud hit the fan.

[McDuck]

6/9/2009
China Car Sales Jump on Gov't Stimulus (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&sid=aYJ3MyMZbA2k&refer=china)
- Bloomberg

[James48843]

6/9/2009
China Car Sales Jump on Gov't Stimulus (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&sid=aYJ3MyMZbA2k&refer=china)
- Bloomberg


And you wonder why Chinese car sales are going up?

Let me give you a hint-

Take a look at the company website ad for the model being sold on the #1 car company in China- SACI Motors-


http://www.roewe.com.cn/09autoshow/images/index6.gif (http://www.saicmotor.com/english/index.shtml)

Heck, you don't even need to see the car itself. Just the ad sells it.




And then look at GM's offering:



http://dacdac.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/redneck-pool.PNG



Any questions?

We're in big, big trouble.

[wwwtractor]

I do not see what you mean. After all, the American model comes with a swimming pool included!

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/album.php?albumid=16
A few neat looking potential car model pictures.

For more, look at the following:
http://delicious.com/wwwtractor/electricar

[Viva_La_Migra]

And then look at GM's offering:



http://dacdac.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/redneck-pool.PNG



Any questions?

We're in big, big trouble.
That there's a portable swimmin hole! Does the confederate flag come standard, or is it an option?

[OBGibby]

I'm not sure what is more the technical marvel: the mobile "swimmin' hole" or that the property has what appears to be running water.

[Thunderhorse]

That there is what is called a live well. Load them shiners up boys.

Just wait til the GM ad for the CA model comes out with Pelosi sittin' up in there wearing one of them thong bikinis. Y'all ever seen a hound dog puke?:nuts:

[Silverbird]

If unions are so bad, why is Ford not involved in this fiasco? Hint, maybe they weren't trying to sell super HEMIs? I think GM and Chrysler's marketing gurus got a flunk on their product line - how can you have a broad line and still not have a nice smaller car? And the design and marketing departments *aren't* the union line guys.

Product line mistakes are not union mistakes.

[Viva_La_Migra]

If unions are so bad, why is Ford not involved in this fiasco? Hint, maybe they weren't trying to sell super HEMIs? I think GM and Chrysler's marketing gurus got a flunk on their product line - how can you have a broad line and still not have a nice smaller car? And the design and marketing departments *aren't* the union line guys.

Product line mistakes are not union mistakes.
Agreed. I've ranted previously about a Chevy Cavalier that I was most unfortunate to own for a time. GM just made poor quality cars. Chrysler did the same, though I liked many of their body designs better than Ford or GM.

I'll never go back to a modern GM car, unless they give me one as my G-ride! I still want to get my hands on a 1978 Trans Am Special Edition, though!

[McDuck]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/tmdsu09061120090612091754.jpg

[McDuck]

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090616-19963.html

BHO's Government Motors should buy the manufacturing dies for these cars and produce them as their new 2011 model lines.

[Viva_La_Migra]

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090616-19963.html

BHO's Government Motors should buy the manufacturing dies for these cars and produce them as their new 2011 model lines.
:laugh::nuts::blink::suspicious: DON'T GIVE HIM ANY IDEAS!!!

[OBGibby]

Interesting information about some upstart American car companies trying to break into the business while the big dogs are laid low. New technologies and new business models. Could be some interesting times ahead for the industry.



The Next Detroit

Joann Muller (http://search.forbes.com/search/colArchiveSearch?author=joann+and+muller&aname=Joann+Muller), 05.20.09, 06:00 PM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated June 08, 2009
http://images.forbes.com/media/magazines/forbes/2009/0608/forbes_0608_p070.jpg Henrik Fisker is designing more than just a beautiful car.

In the gloomy basement cafeteria of New York's Jacob Javits Center, Henrik Fisker is choking down a chicken sandwich and imagining a new kind of American car company. Almost everything is outsourced--engineering, components, the electric power train, manufacturing. No messy work rules to worry about, no postretirement health care. Only design and marketing remain in-house......

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-fisker-karmas-the-next-detroit.html

[James48843]

Interesting information about some upstart American car companies trying to break into the business while the big dogs are laid low. New technologies and new business models. Could be some interesting times ahead for the industry.



The Next Detroit

Joann Muller (http://search.forbes.com/search/colArchiveSearch?author=joann+and+muller&aname=Joann+Muller), 05.20.09, 06:00 PM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated June 08, 2009
http://images.forbes.com/media/magazines/forbes/2009/0608/forbes_0608_p070.jpg Henrik Fisker is designing more than just a beautiful car.

In the gloomy basement cafeteria of New York's Jacob Javits Center, Henrik Fisker is choking down a chicken sandwich and imagining a new kind of American car company. Almost everything is outsourced--engineering, components, the electric power train, manufacturing. No messy work rules to worry about, no postretirement health care. Only design and marketing remain in-house......

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-fisker-karmas-the-next-detroit.html



Sure- and you can buy one for only $88,000, and wait a year for delivery. Maybe. If they have a factory to produce them by then. Because so far, all they have is one display model made. And it uses a GM produced 2.0 Liter engine. The 100 MPG figure isn't really the mileage- see, it's a plug in hybred, and goes for the first 50 miles on a battery, and then uses the gasoline engine after that. He's saying that the 20 MPG on the gasoline engine, combined with the electric, gives you the equivilent of 100 MPG.

But it isn't available just yet.

$88,000, and it's not yet available. I would venture to hazard a guess, and say that the price will creep up yet again before it actually makes it to market. See, it hasn't yet been through U.S. EPA or Crash testing. That's still to come. We'll see.

I wish him luck, but that won't be the answer to the American auto market.

Yep- that ought to beat the socks off them.

[OBGibby]

Sure- and you can buy one for only $88,000, and wait a year for delivery. Maybe. If they have a factory to produce them by then. Because so far, all they have is one display model made. And it uses a GM produced 2.0 Liter engine. The 100 MPG figure isn't really the mileage- see, it's a plug in hybred, and goes for the first 50 miles on a battery, and then uses the gasoline engine after that. He's saying that the 20 MPG on the gasoline engine, combined with the electric, gives you the equivilent of 100 MPG.

But it isn't available just yet.

$88,000, and it's not yet available. I would venture to hazard a guess, and say that the price will creep up yet again before it actually makes it to market. See, it hasn't yet been through U.S. EPA or Crash testing. That's still to come. We'll see.

I wish him luck, but that won't be the answer to the American auto market.

Yep- that ought to beat the socks off them.

To quote Sergeant Hulka:


www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=C6cxNR9ML8k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=C6cxNR9ML8k)


Maybe all of the companies (http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-tesla-aptera-smelling-opportunity.html (http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-tesla-aptera-smelling-opportunity.html)) profiled won't be around in a few years; or maybe one of two will punch through and be productive and profitable. Time will tell. I'm all for some new ideas in auto design and production. Fisker, Tesla, Carbon Motors, Bright Automotive, and Aptera Motors are willing to take some risks. Maybe out of their successes and failures, auto manufacturing of the future will be better off.

[nnuut]

that there is what is called a live well. Load them shiners up boys.

just wait til the gm ad for the ca model comes out with pelosi sittin' up in there wearing one of them thong bikinis. y'all ever seen a hound dog puke?:nuts:

lol lol!!!! 6460

[James48843]

Incredible.

Now that GM and Chrysler have declared bankruptcy, and shed a large number of their dealers, in an attempt to "right size" themselves to become profitable, Congress is now on the verge of un-doing it.

There are now 221 co-sponsors in the House, for a bill to reopen all those dealerships that GM and Chrysler executives said they had to get rid of in order to become profitable.

---------------
Automobile Dealer Economic Rights Restoration Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)
HR 2743 IH
111th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 2743
To restore the economic rights of automobile dealers, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
June 8, 2009

Mr. MAFFEI (for himself, Mr. KRATOVIL, Mr. VAN HOLLEN, Mr. HOYER, Mr. MCMAHON, Ms. SUTTON, Mr. BARTLETT, Mr. HALL of New York, Mr. POSEY, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. PAULSEN, Ms. SHEA-PORTER, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr. DEFAZIO, and Mr. DAVIS of Alabama) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services (221 co-sponsors).

A BILL
To restore the economic rights of automobile dealers, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.


This Act may be cited as the `Automobile Dealer Economic Rights Restoration Act of 2009'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.


The Congress finds the following:



(1) Automobile dealers are an asset to automobile manufacturers that make it possible to serve communities and sell automobiles nationally.




(2) Forcing the closure of automobile dealers would have an especially devastating economic impact in rural communities, where dealers play an integral role in the community, provide essential services and serve as a critical economic engine.




(3) The manufacturers obtain the benefits from having a national dealer network at no material cost to the manufacturers.




(4) Historically, automobile dealers have had franchise agreement protections under State law.


SEC. 3. RESTORATION OF ECONOMIC RIGHTS.


(a) In order to protect assets of the Federal Government and better assure the viability of automobile manufacturers in which the Federal Government has an ownership interest, or to which it is a lender, an automobile manufacturer in which the Federal Government has an ownership interest, or which receives loans from the Federal Government, may not deprive an automobile dealer of its economic rights and shall honor those rights as they existed, for Chrysler LLC dealers, prior to the commencement of the bankruptcy case by Chrysler LLC on April 30, 2009, and for General Motors Corp. dealers, prior to the commencement of the bankruptcy case by General Motors Corp. on June 1, 2009, including the dealer's rights to recourse under State law.


(b) In order to preserve economic rights pursuant to subsection (a), at the request of an automobile dealer, an automobile manufacturer covered under this Act shall restore the franchise agreement between that automobile dealer and Chrysler LLC or General Motors Corp. that was in effect prior to the commencement of their respective bankruptcy cases and take assignment of such agreements.


(c) Except as set forth herein, nothing in this Act is intended to make null and void:



(1) the court approved transfer of substantially all the assets of Chrysler LLC to New CarCo Acquisition LLC; or




(2) a transfer of substantially all the assets of General Motors Corp. that could be approved by a court after the date of introduction of this Act.



------------------------------------

What do you think about that?

[alevin]

Not sure what to think. In dry country where it's 50-180 miles between communities with dealerships, it would be a good thing, especially for smaller communities where a dealership can be an anchor business. Where you have dealerships spaced closer than that....:confused:. If the dealerships go down, the independent mechanics would get a lot more business, but would have to invest in a lot more specialty training too, maybe. Not sure what more implications there would be-if the manufacturers can't turn a profit unless the dealerships get dumped...everyone keels over?

[CapeChem]

sounds to me like having a limb removed because it was gangrenous and then the doctor comes back and wants to re- attach it

[Viva_La_Migra]

Incredible.

Now that GM and Chrysler have declared bankruptcy, and shed a large number of their dealers, in an attempt to "right size" themselves to become profitable, Congress is now on the verge of un-doing it.

There are now 221 co-sponsors in the House, for a bill to reopen all those dealerships that GM and Chrysler executives said they had to get rid of in order to become profitable...

What do you think about that?
What do you expect when the government takes over "ownership" of a company? It becomes a federal agency, making no profit and spending money unnecessarily. What I want to know is, are the car salespeople on FERS now?:notrust:

[Gumby]

What I want to know is, are the car salespeople on FERS now?:notrust:

Yes, their title is automotive specialist, GS-15 :nuts:

[McDuck]

1hhJ_49leBw

[McDuck]

The "Job Banks" still requiring manufacturers to pay for non-work.

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/04/post_271.html

[McDuck]

It's not about lowering costs of labor. Labor really only accounts for about $800 to $1,000 of the price of a new car


I was rereading this thread. James, where in heck did you get that figure ??????

[James48843]

The "Job Banks" still requiring manufacturers to pay for non-work.

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/04/post_271.html

Not quite sure what falsehood you are alleging there, McDuck.

You mean you think the Union Jobs Banks is doing this? "Requiring manufacturers to pay for non-work"?

Is that your belief?

Or are you just stirring the pot again?

[James48843]

I was rereading this thread. James, where in heck did you get that figure ??????

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html

http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_02_08auto1.cfm

[McDuck]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html

http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_02_08auto1.cfm

I see the biased source for the $ numbers.

BUT THAT WOULD MEAN THAT IT ONLY TAKES 20 HOURS OF LABOR TOTAL TO MAKE A CAR. Liberals have to be bad at the truth and math. :nuts::nuts::nuts:

[James48843]

I see the biased source for the $ numbers.

BUT THAT WOULD MEAN THAT IT ONLY TAKES 20 HOURS OF LABOR TOTAL TO MAKE A CAR. Liberals have to be bad at the truth and math. :nuts::nuts::nuts:


You would be surprised at how efficient we have become. The productivity gains over the last 20 years have been nothing less than amazing.

Yes, it only takes 20 hours of labor to assemble an automobile.

In 1990, it took 245,000 workers to assemble 4.5 million cars per year at the big 3.

In 2008 it took about 53,000 to assemble 4.5 million cars.

The cost of labor is no longer the major factor in automobile production. The cost of labor is a part- but there is far more cost in component parts, in steel, in electronics, and other things. Automation does now what assembly line workers used to do for a great deal of the assembly.

If you don't believe the numbers, perhaps you have a source you would like to cite for the number of hours it takes to produce an automobile. I would have thought the New York Times would be sufficient for you. But since you seem to think those numbers are biased, by all means, show me your figures.

[72Zorad]

As a hobby I do miniature machine work. I have a small lathe and a mill I've converted over to Computer Numeric Control (CNC). So, I know a little bit about making parts and the manufacturing process. For example the dies that are used to make production parts can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and it obviously takes many of them for production runs. Every time they change even the smallest design element they have to design it, engineer it, test it, retool.... The list goes on. This can be seen in the several million dollar price tag of prototypes. And, that's just to build the car, not the infrastructure to build more. I think a lot of the reason cars cost so much is our fault. We all want to drive the latest snazzy model. They change the model every couple of years to keep it 'sexy' for the consumer.

I've often wondered if you could start a branch where you had a completely different philosophy. Start with the principle that you will sell this exact model for 10-15 years minimum. No changes unless required by safety. Kind of like the original volkswagon beetle. They all look the same for decades. Then sell it initially at a loss knowing once you break even the future sales have a higher profit margin. I'll bet they could sell them for $6-$7k and still end up making money. I'm a car guy and love 'sexy' cars, I have one. But I'd pay $7k for my commuter any day.

72Zorad