VP Debate Thread

[fabijo]

Anybody watching it right now and on the internet? thoughts?

[Buster]

Yeah..Sarah is kickin Joe's a$$

[wv-girl]

Biden is lying through his teeth. Go Sarah.

[Miss_Piggy]

Hi, I couldn’t resist to come back on the board. Though at this early stage I don’t have any profound thoughts – if ever.

Well I don’t agree with you Buster, but that’s nothing new – lol

I’m watching on CNN and they have this graph that shows the male and female opinions of the Ohio uncommitted voters from second to second as each of the candidates speak.
It seems so far male opinions are higher for Palin and female opinions are more in favor of Biden.

Now do you think that is a result of the obvious common denominator (if I'm expressing myself correctly)?

[Miss_Piggy]

I do agree Palin is holding her own, but in general I'm impressed with Palin as a woman just not as a VP candidate.

[Show-me]

I'm impressed with her due to the fact that Bidden has much more experience debating and dealing with public speaking and she is holding her own and getting in some good dig on the old guy.

[fabijo]

I'm surprised to see Palin holding her own, especially after seeing some of those other interviews.

But they're both just going with the system. Sure, they'll debate how to handle "issues," but whether the issues really exist are not debated. An assumption is being made with most of those debate questions. It is those assumptions that will guide America. It doesn't matter who is in office, since they all agree that the "issues" are the real issues.

[Miss_Piggy]

Oh I think you are depressed now, fabijo. And depressing.

PS But I think you're right!

[ChemEng]

Its clear what Palin's strategy going into this was--rehearse 2 or 3 blocks of line and always keep on the script. She's not answering the questions that are even slightly off those tracks. Early in the debate the question was about Pakistan. Palin's response was solely about Energy policy, huh?

Shes talking much better than her Curic interview, but she's not debating at all.

Anyone won Palin Bingo (http://www.palinbingo.com/) yet?

[McDuck]

Anyone won Palin Bingo (http://www.palinbingo.com/) yet?

That's mean spirited.

The drive-by media would call that sexist if it is Hillary Bingo.

[McDuck]

I'm surprised to see Palin holding her own, especially after seeing some of those other interviews.


I didn't see the katy thing. But Harry Smith was just trying hit on the head with questions. He never let her finish answer before he was asking another one.

[McDuck]

The important thing is the PBS moderator will get rich with her Osama-praising book.

[Tempest]

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Well I guess the Republican party got CENTCOM to dig up and send General MClellan to Afghanistan (that may explain why General McCllean didn't say anything about the surge ;)) or she got the name of the General wrong.
Hope that's it's the latter cuz somebody needs to put their foot down on the Republicans digging up Lincoln.

For a moment it was touch and go if she'd run out of 3 x 5 cards before her hour was up.


She didn't implode so I guess that's a victory. :laugh:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Lincoln_and_McClellan_1862-10-03.jpg

Lincoln & McClellan

[James48843]

I LOVE Palin Bingo.

Printed out all four cards- my wife and I sat down during the debate and played.

It was great.

[nnuut]

Palin Won, I watched the WHOLE thing. I wouldn't vote for Biden to be Vicerooster of my Chicken Pen!:laugh:4783

[ChemEng]

Palin Won, I watched the WHOLE thing. I wouldn't vote for Biden to be Vicerooster of my Chicken Pen!:laugh:We must have watched a different debate then. There is no way that Palin won by the traditional debate metrics--things like substantive answers, actually answering the questions et al. If anything, the only way that Palin 'won' is by not imploding (again) but that is hardly winning the debate.

[Mike]

If the debates actually mattered, then people would be applying the following idiotic logic to their votes:

"Well, I don't agree with ____'s policy on energy, but he's a fine debater. So he's got my vote!"

[Steadygain]

Joe addressed the questions specifically - was concise and expressed himself in a very clear manner that demonstated not only a thorough knowledge of the subject matter; but equally transmitted an understanding of how to correct it. Listening to him you heard a message with distinct thoughts and could easily follow what he was projecting.

When challenged - or specific allegations were directed against him - he bought that back and gave incredibly accurate details that not only verifed his true stand (but equally important - as far as what would be considered a TRUE DEBATE) was very much the winner.

Sarah (bless her heart) who brought me to watch the debate carried herself very well - especially considering her circumstances. She sounded like a strong woman who could hold her ground and was able to clearly acknowledge how she was able to stand against the huge powerful Oil Corporations and 'put her State First'.

So for her the GOAL of showing she is not thoroughly DITTZY was accomplished. Her message, however, was much harder to follow because she was so wound up. Clearly 'when she DID NOT KNOW how to deal with a question (or all the more a challenge) she would circle back to ENERGY and say the same thing over and over.

I was also a bit disappointed in her "hailing of the Maverick" and almost obsession with 'McCain thinks, believes, wants..." because I wanted HER VIEWS - HER THOUGHTS - HER HEART AND MIND not his.

She did her very best when she brought her distinct beliefs to light. She stressed her view of marriage...that she had her own views...and that McCain was open to hearing her views (even if they differed from him).

From a purely objective point of view - having no attachment to either one - I believe Joe was the winner. From strictly a Republican Party point of view I believe Sarah was 'a winner' in that people now know she IS NOT a blundering ditz - airhead. She is solid.

[XL-entLady]

Sarah (bless her heart) ... is not thoroughly DITTZY
When I was growing up, the common phrase that was used if you couldn't figure out something nice to say about someone was, "bless his/her heart."

I agree with Steady. Sarah Palin, bless her heart, remembered the sound bites she had been prepped with for most of the topics that were presented to her. She might be ready for the national stage in four years for the next election.

Joe Biden was articulate and spoke to the issues, he remembered most of the time that he needs to take care not to sound condescending, and he didn't jam his foot too far down his throat.

There wasn't a clear-cut, no question about it winner that everyone will agree with. I think Biden won, but that's because he's who I was hoping would do better. If someone was hoping that Palin would win, then she probably did in their eyes.

Lady

[Intrepid_Timer]

No one I've talked to or have listened to on the news has brought up Biden's comment about being in the political eye for 30 years and NEVER changed. Isn't the democratic platform all about change? Just thought it was funny. GO RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!!

[Silverbird]

My fiscal conservative husband was fustrated that he could not make heads or tails out of some of Palin's answers, because he doesn't know anything about Alaskan politics, oil revenues, etc. I knew in general what she was referring to, thanks to watching oil (*nod to Nnut for his help in this.*) and renewable energy/energy security issues, but not everyone watches that. I wonder how many others were in that boat?

[tsptalk]

News flash! Those who support Palin think Palin won the debate. Those who support Biden believe he won. Read all about it! :D

[Minnow]

I think the moderator won... $$$$$

[CountryBoy]

That's mean spirited.

The drive-by media would call that sexist if it is Hillary Bingo.


I thought that only Republicans were mean spirited and sexist. :laugh: I'm really shocked and dissappointed by the obvious hatred some folks have for Palin and the name calling. I thought it was pretty much a draw and was not the least bit suprised at the answers from each. Biden's experience helped him, but he's the same old thing, (what happened to change?) we've got now and Palin was a breath of fresh air and more of the common person. Personally I don't want the same old thing we've had since the Carter Days, look where it's gotten us.

It's all what you believe the government should be. A Socialistic country or a Democratic Country and if you can set your hatred aside and honestly look, at what each side stands for and wants to do and compare it to what socialism and democracy are, it's clearly obvious what they are. It's all public record and the debates really peg my BS meter. I'll not watch the Prez debates because simple research will tell you what they stand for, just by just looking at their respective voting records and who they surround themselves with.

I'm a black or white, good and evil type person and don't believe in nuances. To me nuances are just BS and an excuse for not taking personal responsiblility or having a lack of stong beliefs and principles. I'm actually dissappointed in the choices we have, but I'll hold my nose and vote anyway.

Well back outside to work on the woodpile for the winter. Nice cool day for cutting and splitting. Nice 3 day weekend. :D

CB

[Davehop21]

How many were not surprised that the mantra for this election has been we need to change. So when it came time for the vote here they went all voting yes for a bill full of pork Biden, Clinton, McCain and Obama. Talking about we need a change and voting yes for the same old pork barrel spending that has gotten us into this tax and spend freely problem.
Dave at VA

[nnuut]

I really don't care the reasons or the logic for supporting Biden. I planely like and trust Palin more than I do Biden and I think her and McCain are going to make life miserable for the CROOKS in DC! How can trust Obama?:suspicious:

[2EASY]

Palin was well rehearsed. Sounded like she was standing in front of a bunch of Sergeants Major at a E6 board. No substance...just souding off what she learned during her rehersals.

[Buster]

Ditto Norm..

So all ya all can just quit the hair splitting and suck it up.. Sarah Won and sounded like someone that can support the best interests of this country...


And coming for Christmas <----(note the correct spelling)


http://americancarol.com/

[Frixxxx]

OK everyone, I've self-regulated to one political post on this MB a week. Here goes:

1. Vice-presidential debates never impress me.
2. Advisors are ALL our leaders can rely on when moving to and obtaining office.
3. The advisors are supposed "Experts" in their field. If they "train, coach, instruct, educate" their candidate properly, then the candidate should be able to repeat the main points with confidence.
4. This also pertains to presidential candidates.
5. Joe Biden and Sarah Palin stood up and took positions. Deal with it.
6. I always start my rebuttals with "Why don't you run if you can do better?"
7. I can't do a lot better than most when it comes to talking off the cuff so I don't run. But I could be an advisor in a technical capacity. Why? Because like 99.99% of the American public, I have time to think about my answer based on the facts I receive.
8. Sometimes, our politicians have MORE information than we do on certain topics and their decision on certain topics may have ramifications on other areas of the political realm. It may sound stupid from one perspective but it makes perfect sense from another.

My name is Frixxxx, and I approve this message.

As far as who wins in a debate: I don't care. As far as who wins in November:I really hope its me! Have a great weekend all!:cool:

[fabijo]

If the debates actually mattered, then people would be applying the following idiotic logic to their votes:

"Well, I don't agree with ____'s policy on energy, but he's a fine debater. So he's got my vote!"

too true. All we do is discuss who answers best or is better on their feet. We don't even care what the answers are or what actions will take place based off those answers.

[Silverbird]

Well, actually, now that you can get a transcript online, you can read what they have to say instead of relying on what you heard (or saw) right away. With the VP debate, I didn't know what Govenor Palin's policies were on some of the subjects (or wasn't sure). On the Presidential debate, it also was important to get the transcript, I often got the candidate's view through a media, or much worse, campaign ad filter.

Some of us do care what the substance was, and want some inkling of answers on issues frankly not discussed on the campaign trail. A moderator can bring up those type of issues.

[nnuut]

"Say it ain't so Joe":D:D:laugh::laugh:
http://www.drudgereport.com/

[Birchtree]

I was going to mention the Joe reference which is actually a throw back to the Reagan and Carter meeting - I thought it was great and well planned. She asked Biden before they began could she call him Joe. All the criticism that was thrown at McCain by Biden will be answered in the next debate with Nobama. Joe just wasted all the ammo for no result - most people know better than to believe him regardless of his attacks. Let's free up Fannie and Freddie to commit more damage Bill would be proud.

[nnuut]

Well Birch, that is what I call a fine Post!:D:D:D:D

[Steadygain]

How can trust Obama?

Well trust is a very delicate issue.

Over the years I've found that open communication is essential to developing trust. Many of our deep roots are very in synch with others we encounter and as we allow those roots to grow and blend into deeper bonds that bring us together (and keep us together) a TRUE SENSE of TRUST develops.

In time we go beyond casual (and non-committal) acquaintances into more deeper and hugely committed friendships that become significant relationships. This is where TRUST is mostly acknowledged and appreciated. This TRUST is the evidence of real love, of being understood, and knowing beyond the shadow of any doubt that you can depend on the one who has proved themselve. It's more a spiritual thing - something that you just know - something that wonderfully fills you.

There is no way possible you can trust Obama without a sense of BLIND FAITH. The funny thing is: 'this is equally true of all the others'. There is only our perception of how a woman (or man) appears and makes us feel. We are often swayed by our view of what it means to be a Republician or a Democrat and this view is totally reinforced by what others say and feel. But we can never TRUST any POLITICIAN in the sense of knowing REAL TRUST; but because TRUST is so crucial to our sense of comfort we have to in essence BLINDLY THROW OUT TRUST upon him (or her) and hope we are not disappointed.

So that is how to trust him...just do it...make a leap of faith and hold on to your new found hope.

[nnuut]

Great analysis Steady, but I really just don't trust him, trust me on this one!!:laugh:

[CountryBoy]

Sorry Steady,

But obama hasn't done anything, that I my morals, principle and ethics would allow me to give my trust. I haven't agreed with what lgislation he has supported and his close friends leave a lot to be desired, at least by the standards I was raised by. He just hasn't done anything to earn my trust and as for blind faith, only one person will I give my blind faith to... well 2, gotta include my wife or she'd skin me alive. :nuts:

Have a good weekend,
CB

[Steadygain]

Sorry Steady,

But obama hasn't done anything, that I my morals, principle and ethics would allow me to give my trust. I haven't agreed with what lgislation he has supported and his close friends leave a lot to be desired, at least by the standards I was raised by. He just hasn't done anything to earn my trust and as for blind faith, only one person will I give my blind faith to... well 2, gotta include my wife or she'd skin me alive. :nuts:

Have a good weekend,
CB

CB,
Please don't say 'Sorry Steady' - I was merely reflecting on one simple question; "How can we trust" ??

So I am not telling anyone to put their trust in Obama - or anyone else - I am simply saying how it would be possible to do it.

My thinking is all of us largely put our TRUST in false hopes with essentially any politician. When it comes time to vote GO WITH YOUR HEART - no matter who you pick it makes no difference to me.

[budnipper1]

I really don't care the reasons or the logic for supporting Biden. I planely like and trust Palin more than I do Biden and I think her and McCain are going to make life miserable for the CROOKS in DC! How can trust Obama?:suspicious:

Me too, nnuut...my feelings exactly. Fresh, non-insider meat is needed in Washington and Palin fits the bill. I hope she starts a trend in replacing a bunch more of the good-ol'-boys there. Obama is just another John Kerry or Ted Kennedy nightmare waiting to happpen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

[ChemEng]

Did everyone catch the part where she wants to continue Cheney's insanity in thinking that the VP isn't part of the executive branch?

[ChemEng]

YgDPxi4bJMs
Here is an interesting video from the weekend. Ifill talks about the debates from her perspective as the debate moderator.

[Buster]

me too, nnuut...my feelings exactly. Fresh, non-insider meat is needed in washington and palin fits the bill. I hope she starts a trend in replacing a bunch more of the good-ol'-boys there. Obama is just another john kerry or ted kennedy nightmare waiting to happpen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvg-s_ssb0
ditto