Sick leave

[poolman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturneptune http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?p=120925#post120925)
There is one question that comes to mind in response to this post. If you are perfectionist in your grammer and spelling, why are you working for the Federal government?

Now pay attention while we congegate the verb phrase "to take coffee breaks."

I take coffee breaks.
You take coffee breaks.
He takes coffee breaks.
We take coffee breaks.
You take coffee breaks.
They take coffee breaks.

OK, now for your assignment. Your assignment is to congegate the verb phrase "to call in sick."


LOL! Rolling on the floor, too! :D





"to call in sick" "Real World" --- I've missed 3 day's in the last seven year's and that was 5 year's ago..... I'm not allowed to miss a day seeing as I am the forman of a crew of 4. Those 3 day's were because my Wife's mother died. Her father died this July 11. Did I miss a day. No. Not allowed to..practically impossible... I appreciate the federal goverment seeing as I am married to one in it.

Damn glad my Wife is a High up 14....

I should have also gone into the federal goverment...

Be gratefull to have a goverment position.... :)

[saturneptune]

"to call in sick" "Real World" --- I've missed 3 day's in the last seven year's and that was 5 year's ago..... I'm not allowed to miss a day seeing as I am the forman of a crew of 4. Those 3 day's were because my Wife's mother died. Her father died this July 11. Did I miss a day. No. Not allowed to..practically impossible... I appreciate the federal goverment seeing as I am married to one in it.

Damn glad my Wife is a High up 14....

I should have also gone into the federal goverment...

Be gratefull to have a goverment position.... :)
Call ins are more of a myth than a reality. I have 2200 hours of sick leave which I will forfeit in less than a year at retirement. The paper work is too much hassle and glad I had the good health not to use it.

[airlift]

You have reason to be happy with your good health (I would feel as you do too!). Suggestion: If you are going to forfeit over 2000 hours of sick leave, perhaps you are already considering making arrangements with your agency so that this leave may be used for other Federal employees who are truly sick and can show medical evidence to that effect. Some people do have critical or end-stage disease and could really appreciate using this sick leave. :)

Call ins are more of a myth than a reality. I have 2200 hours of sick leave which I will forfeit in less than a year at retirement. The paper work is too much hassle and glad I had the good health not to use it.

[poolman]

You have reason to be happy with your good health (I would feel as you do too!). Suggestion: If you are going to forfeit over 2000 hours of sick leave, perhaps you are already considering making arrangements with you agency so that this leave may be used for other Federal employees who are truly sick and can show medical evidence to that effect. Some people do have critical or end-stage disease and could really use this sick leave. :)


Wow, now we are cooking. Thanks for you input Airlift. This is what other goverment employees did for my wife when our first and only child was born 10 years ago. My wife was on her back with "placentia privia" in the hospital for 6 weeks. Daughter was born 6 weeks premature but thankfully is well today. Goverment Friend employee's donated there sick leave hour's to help us and that meant the world to me and my wife. We have forefitted (SP) in kind since then 75 hours to others in need. God bless this system.

[airlift]

This is not my original idea, but I hope these things continue to happen. Acts of kindness! Glad you are ok too.

[nnuut]

You have reason to be happy with your good health (I would feel as you do too!). Suggestion: If you are going to forfeit over 2000 hours of sick leave, perhaps you are already considering making arrangements with your agency so that this leave may be used for other Federal employees who are truly sick and can show medical evidence to that effect. Some people do have critical or end-stage disease and could really appreciate using this sick leave. :)

I really don't know what the regulations are where you work, but in the DOD USAF you can only donate Annual Leave. I know because I donated 104 hours to a friend of mine about 2 months ago. There are also limits on the amount you can donate, normally 1/2 of the amount of leave that you would accrue for the year. There may be a way to donate Sick Leave but I don't know of any. I was told that only Annual leave could be donated. :confused:

[Show-me]

I really don't know what the regulations are where you work, but in the DOD USAF you can only donate Annual Leave. I know because I donated 104 hours to a friend of mine about 2 months ago. There are also limits on the amount you can donate, normally 1/2 of the amount of leave that you would accrue for the year. There may be a way to donate Sick Leave but I don't know of any. I was told that only Annual leave could be donated. :confused:


Yep, A/L only here too. They really don't want you to use you S/L even if you are sick. I understand some people do abuse, but it is a benefit and I should not have to jump through hoops to use it.

[ChemEng]

Call ins are more of a myth than a reality. I have 2200 hours of sick leave which I will forfeit in less than a year at retirement. The paper work is too much hassle and glad I had the good health not to use it.

Theres practically no paperwork with our timecards. I either call into my 14 prior to work or drop an email saying Im going to be out if I dont know beforehand. Thats it. If fire mission comes up, then I work it at home. That arrangement has worked well the year Ive been in this office.

[airlift]

I don't really understand these limitations, so I spoke impulsively. Frankly, however, there should not be any difference between annual leave and sick leave; provided, that the illness is legitimate and medically documented.

[Birchtree]

Most private sector employers have what is known as PTO - paid time off, where all types of leave are combined into one source. When you leave employment you are paid dollar for dollar for any accumulated time. The time is yours to do as you like including gifting.

[Grizzly]

I work for the Post Office and only earned annual leave may be donated. No sick leave. There's a guy I know who hasn't called in sick since 1985.
Me? I've got 20 hours left. Heart problems will do that. Glad I had it. Following Ebb is easy on the stress.

[SkyPilot]

Sick leave is use or lose...

CSRS gets cashed out, but FERS get hosed if it is left on the books. It is an entitlement benefit that should be depleted.

I get chafed at the notion it can be "abused".

Also, in DOJ you cannot donate it either, only annual leave. There are many options to deplete it, so study up so you can make sure not to leave too much on the books. You don't get an award for coming to work and making everyone else sick :)

And they don't appreciate it when you retire and leave hours hanging...

[wv-girl]

Don't some agencies add time in service in trade for un-used sl when retiring? I know ours does. They also cash out al.

[squalebear]

Justice (BOP) takes your S/L with no incentives
or benefit to carry a balance prior to retirement.
Use of it during your career (justified or not) is
looked down upon as simple abuse.:blink:

[Griffin]

Don't some agencies add time in service in trade for un-used sl when retiring? I know ours does. They also cash out al.

In DoD, SL for CSRS can be used as you indicated but not for FERS. We had a reserve Command Sergeant Major retire from his full time technician job with a years worth of SL and cash out 240 hours of AL.

[RamesesTG]

I'm not sure if it's all of DOT or just the FAA, but we can donate sl to people in the leave share program. I believe that you can donate as much as you want as long as you keep a balance of 80 hours.

[Show-me]

I'm not sure if it's all of DOT or just the FAA, but we can donate sl to people in the leave share program. I believe that you can donate as much as you want as long as you keep a balance of 80 hours.

You guys got a better contract. ;) Welcome to the message board!

[Show-me]

S/L is a passion of mine. Here is how I look at it.

Lets say I make $50k and I have 2080 hrs of S/L on the books, nice numbers. For those who may not know there are 2080 work hours in a year. Ten of those are holidays.

Now I write in generalities. If I retire under CSRS and get a year added to my service time which equates to approx. 2% of my high three, but they don't adjust for the 10 holidays. That is a additional $1,000 per year gain or $83.33 per month or $41.66 per pay period.

$1000 dollars a year, big whoop. Take the S/L you get the full $50k and the holidays.

Lets see, at a grand a year it would take me 50 years to get the full amount of my base S/L pay. :notrust: Take the S/L you deserve it.

Also, if I use a year of sick leave I only need 2000 hours because of the 10 holidays.



FERS is much simpler. We got screwed. USE IT OR LOOSE IT! :mad:

[Wildboar53]

Dod Navy here. We have same rules as Show-me outlined. The managers are encouraging workers to not "abuse" their sick leave, i.e. to use SL instead of annual leave. That way workers will have enough time on the books to cover a 'major' illness. On the other hand though, those that are approaching retirement under FERS are given much leeway in reducing amount of SL that they would forfit.

[Show-me]

I will clean Ebb's Account Talk thread later tonight and put the S/L stuff in a separate thread.

[nnuut]

I'm not sure if it's all of DOT or just the FAA, but we can donate sl to people in the leave share program. I believe that you can donate as much as you want as long as you keep a balance of 80 hours.

I looked up the FAA policy on donation of SL! Looks like it is the same is all the Govt. Service?:worried:

Sick Leave

Federal employees earn 104 hours (13 days) of sick leave each year, and there is no limit on the amount of sick leave they can accumulate throughout their Federal career. Sick leave may be used for physical or mental illness, injury, pregnancy or childbirth, or medical, dental, or optical examination and treatment. Sick leave may also be used for purposes related to the adoption of child. Additionally, employees may use up to 13 days of sick leave each year to care for a family member or to arrange for or attend the funeral of a family member.
Federal Employees' Family Friendly Leave Act (FEFFLA)

Provides that Federal employees may use up to 12 weeks of sick leave each year to care for a family with a serious health condition.
The Family & Medical Leave Act

Provides Federal employees with a total of 12 administrative workweeks of unpaid leave during any 12-month period for (a) the birth of a son or daughter and care of the newborn; (b) the placement of a son or daughter with the employee for adoption or foster care; (c) the care of a spouse, son, daughter, or parent with a serious health condition; or (d) a serious health condition of the employee that makes the employee unable to perform the duties of his or her position. Employees retain their health benefits coverage during the entire period they are on family and medical leave.
The Federal Leave Sharing Program

Includes a leave transfer program. The leave transfer program allows Federal employees to donate annual leave to other Federal employees who have medical emergencies and who have exhausted their own paid leave.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ahr/jobs_careers/exec_opportunities/benefits/index.cfm?print=go

[Show-me]

Discuss sick leave here.

[Show-me]

All right now, I think everything sick leave is moved out of Ebb's account talk. Thanks for the discussion.

[nnuut]

I'm CSRS and feel that the government really laid one on the FERS folks, now they are sticking the NSPS CRAP down our throats. All of this is with the predetermined desire, to reduce the cost of the retirement of government employees. The sick leave thing is just a small part of their ultimate goal!! Yes this is a sick leave topic and I feel like using about a weeks worth right now! All I have to say is, 2 years 2 Months and 25 days!:nuts:

[Show-me]

You watch nnuut, some day they will do away with FERS too. All we will have is TSP.

[nnuut]

Right on!! If I were to list all that they have taken away from Government employees sense I have been employed by the DOD it would be obvious what's happening.:nuts: They can kiss my butt, and that's sad, I have always been an excellent employee. Always thought I was doing a service for my COUNTRY and proud of it, now look how are we rewarded? Who would have thunk it!!!:worried:

[JOVARN]

VA has it where Nurses can put their SL toward their retirement
AL is cashed out upon retirement dollar and they can carry 750 plus may be 780 hrs on the books. I am using my AL for my retirement poontoon boat

[nnuut]

DOD can only carry over 240 LA + the last years leave which is 208 that = 448, must be a Union thing? You ever go a year without taking any Annual leave?:worried:

[Sunnyskies]

My DH (FERS) used only 4 days of SL in 21 years of service. He became fully disabled due to a work injury -- spinal cord injury. The brand new manager he had at the time tried to get him fired for SL abuse while we were waiting for the doctors to determine the extent of his injury. She went so far as to have a wheelchair delivered to the office and wanted him to come sit at his desk! While DH was in the hospital recovering from spinal surgery I called the head of personnel and asked him if this is how they treat people who saved their SL and then had a serious injury? I wasn't very nice and he knew he needed to get the manager in line. Ultimately, we had to give a doctor's excuse/update every payday. His doctors couldn't believe it, but were very cooperative.

DH was able to remain on the payroll for 18 months with his sick leave. As it was coming to the end, personnel notified us he would be let go when his SL ran out. Ultimately, the head of personnel recognized this as a worker's comp issue and helped us file. He even wrote to DOL and took the blame that we weren't able to file in time because management hadn't properly filed the required reports. We got the full benefit of his SL, and were mighty glad he had it.

[nnuut]

That is a really sad story. How can a manager treat another employee that way?
Save all the sick leave you can, it's like an insurance policy, but if you are sick ---TAKE IT!!!:cool:

[Show-me]

VA has it where Nurses can put their SL toward their retirement
AL is cashed out upon retirement dollar and they can carry 750 plus may be 780 hrs on the books. I am using my AL for my retirement poontoon boat

That is sweet! I wish our contract has that one. We can bank 440 at the USPS. I have 4 week of A/L coming in Nov. and Dec. and I will roll close to the 440 over next year. :D

[Show-me]

It is amazing how some would rather hurt a employee instead of help.

[charmed855]

A retiring employee just got done taking 8 months of sick leave. 2+2 months off for each of his mothers knee replacement surgeries then 2+2 more for each of his own foot operations (removed corns or something). He took that time to flip three houses which he's using to augment his retirement income. He has 45 years of government service and I don't blame him for using the system to his advantage. On the other side of things, I've had some people that burn sick leave as quickly as they earn it - not very dependable.

[Show-me]

That is right charmed, get yourself fixed before you retire. Physicals, colonoscopy, hearing , eyes, knees, and hip. Fix it all before you get off of the active rolls. Use your benefits and live well.

[SkyPilot]

On the other side of things, I've had some people that burn sick leave as quickly as they earn it - not very dependable.

It's their's to burn... OPM could fix that if they wanted to, and modify the policies so that people could use s/l as well days like much of private industry... but I don't think they really want it fixed.

We just had a ret. HRM who contracts with BOP to provide retirement seminars. He spoke of several other agengies that were actually asking employees to schedule sick leave so as to burn off excess before they were retired. His advice to us was use it in every creative way possible.

And, I fully expect there to be a FERSlight for the next generation of Fed employees.

[Show-me]

My experience with the private sector is that they don't care if you use your s/l. I hear my family talk about it all the time and when I was in private sector I did the same thing. Private sector must have accepted that it is a benefit that people will use.

Each s/l call is a "occurrence" and anything over 3 days need documentation. We have a automated call in and I always call in for a minimum of 24 hours and you HAVE to get a conformation number or some management will try to burn you by saying you did not call in at all or AWOL.:mad:

My reason is simple. If I call in sick for one day, 8 hrs, and I'm sick the next day too. Then I have to call in again and get another conformation number. Now the is two "occurrences" and if I am sick the third day, I have to call in yet again and get a third conformation number. Now you have three "occurrences" over three day and a week later your sick again and now local management will get a message from a bean counter telling them to give you a official discussion about time and attendance. :sick: lol

Call in for 3 days and if you feel better before the end of the three days go to work ........................or not. Alway be well rested before you return to work, even though you think your feeling better. You would not want to get your co-worker sick. :nuts::D

[Boxholder]

The local postmaster at my wife's office felt like one of his employees was taking unfair advantage of sick leave, so now he has a policy that any employee that uses sick leave must have documentation for that day before coming back to work. That has made it rough on those employees like my wife who rarely use sick leave. There are lot's of times when an employee may get a cold and doesn't feel well enough to go to work, but also doesn't feel bad enough to go to the doctor, having to sit in a doctors office for hours without an appointment. The local rural carrier union says that the postmaster has the right to enforce that policy if he chooses to. Just doesn't seem right!

[SkyPilot]

The local postmaster at my wife's office felt like one of his employees was taking unfair advantage of sick leave, so now he has a policy that any employee that uses sick leave must have documentation for that day before coming back to work. That has made it rough on those employees like my wife who rarely use sick leave. There are lot's of times when an employee may get a cold and doesn't feel well enough to go to work, but also doesn't feel bad enough to go to the doctor, having to sit in a doctors office for hours without an appointment. The local rural carrier union says that the postmaster has the right to enforce that policy if he chooses to. Just doesn't seem right!

Maybe she should bypass the local union and have a conversation with some one higher up. I can't believe that at some level the union would not want to challenge this, if nothing else to avoid establishing a "past practice"... Usually a local manager cannot compose and implement policy of this nature without it going to negotiations.. also, sometimes local reps can have their own agendas (not always in the best interest of the bargaining unit).

[Show-me]

Boxholder,

NRLCA contract and APWU contract are the same in this area and we both are governed by the ELM.

Your postmaster can not require documentation for a absence of 3 days or less unless: that person is on restricted sick leave and has had a quarterly time and attendance review prior to that and a official discussion prior to that.

APWU national hq just sent a letter to USPS HR to clarify this and USPS HQ was in agreement. That does not mean that local management will comply. It does mean you wife has a good grievance and this is how you set it up.

First you can not be on restricted s/l, that is the only case that I am aware of that you HAVE to provide documentation every time you call in. Second you need a steward that will go the extra mile.

When and if you call in sick and the automated system does NOT ask you for documentation, you do NOT provide it. When you get to work and they ask for documentation you make a appointment with you family doctor and explain the situation. You keep track of your time, mileage, and the doctors complete bill including what the insurance paid. You MUST provide the documentation if ordered to get it.

Then you file your grievance that you are improperly required to provide documentation for s/l and you have never had a discussion and you are not on restricted s/l. Your remedy is that you be compensated for you time, mileage, and the full doctors bill.

I know it is a pain in the ass, but that is why they get away with it. They won't like paying that one and will not do it to YOU again.

Here is a small clip of the letter from out National Union.

Naturally, whether local management is improperly requiring medical documentation for 3 days or less is based as local fact circumstances. However, pursuant to the correspondences (APWU-August 27th and USPS-September 10th Letters)there is no disagreement between the parties at the national level to the conditions under which an employee may or may not be required to submit medical documentation for absences of 3 days or less. On those occasions when local management improperly required an employee to submit medical evidence for 3 days or less, the correspondences in question should be used in support of the union's position.

Here is a link to the APWU site that explains the letters.

USPS Responds to Inquiry Regarding Medical Evidence for Absences of Three Days or Less
(09/19/07) The APWU received a response (http://www.apwu.org/dept/ind-rel/step4/091007irrespmedevid3daysless.pdf) to a letter sent to the Postal Service (http://www.apwu.org/dept/ind-rel/step4/090607irmedevid3daysless.pdf) seeking to determine if there is a disagreement between the parties at the national level regarding the conditions under which an employee may be required to submit medical documentation or other acceptable evidence for periods of absence of three days or less. The union clearly laid out our position and asked the Postal Service if they disagreed. Their response was that "there is no dispute or disagreement regarding the conditions under which an employee may be required to submit medical documentation or other acceptable evidence for periods of 3 days or less." Further, they write, "the eRMS application does not change Postal Service policy concerning medical documentation for absences when employees call in sick."

http://www.apwu.org/dept/ind-rel/index.htm

[Show-me]

Maybe she should bypass the local union and have a conversation with some one higher up. I can't believe that at some level the union would not want to challenge this, if nothing else to avoid establishing a "past practice"... Usually a local manager cannot compose and implement policy of this nature without it going to negotiations.. also, sometimes local reps can have their own agendas (not always in the best interest of the bargaining unit).

:blink: Stranger things have happened.

[JOVARN]

Sky Pilot this issue is a no brainer for the union and it would be unlikely that there would be an agenda for not wanting to process.

At this VA this issue is a major problem as we work compressed work tours and the rule states that SL abuse can be linked with days off.

I am presently processing a case now where the employee was on SL restriction and she complied with the SL Restrictions rules and provided a MD note when she was out, AND YET management and HR want to continue with her SL restrictions status.

It is what it is and the rules are clear for SL and Abuse the union is not going to suffer bad press over this issue. There are always two sides to every story.

[SkyPilot]

JOVARN, while it should be a no-brainer, the situation Boxholder described indicates that there is likely a problem as described.

Therefore, the individual must be vigilent to advocate for themselves. If the local cannot or will not perform (for any variety of reasons i.e., personality conflicts, competing interest, obligated to management in other ways for other reasons) then the member is obliged to seek a hearing from a higher level.

This is actually quite common, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes the local is intimidated or otherwise compromised by the management and is impaired in it's ability to represent in an effective manner the employee. This of course is often management's goal. And managers will do whatever they feel that they can get away with.

I have been on all three sides (personal, union member and management) of this equation, and have seen this issue played out many times in both the government and private sector. Ultimately, this is why there are Labor Boards, Labor Lawyers and even the EEOC. As far as "it is what it is", these issues can be aggressively pursued in LMR sessions, and can be referred to mediation if neccessary. The Master Agreement for any agency is a living document that must be contested and defended, as well as the local supplement.

As far as "the Union" suffering bad press is largely secondary or irrelevent to the well being and advocacy of the bargaining unit member. In this case, as Boxholder describes it, it has already failed the "no brainer" test IMO...

No Brainer? Hardly... :)

[pogo]

The local postmaster at my wife's office felt like one of his employees was taking unfair advantage of sick leave, so now he has a policy that any employee that uses sick leave must have documentation for that day before coming back to work. That has made it rough on those employees like my wife who rarely use sick leave. There are lot's of times when an employee may get a cold and doesn't feel well enough to go to work, but also doesn't feel bad enough to go to the doctor, having to sit in a doctors office for hours without an appointment. The local rural carrier union says that the postmaster has the right to enforce that policy if he chooses to. Just doesn't seem right!sounds like local contract sucks==pittsburgh area you get three days without doctor note and if management ask for one you say sure they pay for gas and doctor bill

[SkyPilot]

We get three days as well... and most times management will not ask after that unless there seems to be a problem emerging.

Ultimately, there is not really much management can do here, as there is so much "past practice", as well as active and agressive union representation, who holds management accountable in nearly every circumstance. This then is helpful to mid-level managers as well, because executive staff is loath to impose such draconian measures after they have had to allow sick leave in such a manner to line staff. :p

[saturneptune]

Is there any move in Congress to change SL for credit like CSRS?

[ChemEng]

Is there any move in Congress to change SL for credit like CSRS?

There has been discussion about this. But I doubt anything will be discussed seriously until a majority of CSRS folk have retired in the next 3-5 years.

[SkyPilot]

There has been discussion about this. But I doubt anything will be discussed seriously until a majority of CSRS folk have retired in the next 3-5 years.

Our retirement guru says he doubts that the Fed will cash us out now, as so many agencies are adopting a more generous attitude towards leave. As a result, there will be fewer retirees with ample balances, thus less pressure to compensate.

I think OPM would rather let people have the time off than pay them for it...

[Bullishreturn]

Is there any move in Congress to change SL for credit like CSRS?


It was the subject of an OPM report last year, where they recommended changes be made. However, it has not yet risen to the attention of lawmakers to actually do anything about it. The gist of it is that statistically, those who are FERS with less than 5 years to retirement burn sick leave at a much higher rate than CSRS with less than 5 till retirement. OPM recommended it be addressed, but so far, no joy.

[nnuut]

Who are these @#&^%$%^s? :nuts: And nobody likes the union!!:confused:

[ChemEng]

Wow.

Im not going to complain much about my office policies anymore. I was told it was ok to take sick leave off for the following day if I was sick the previous night. I kind of figured that kind of leniency was the norm.

[clester]

This is a true story (and the best ones always start..."this is a true story". )


In the FAA, MGT decided that from now on, they were going to reduce sick leave usage by employees. You see, a Congressman noted in a hearing that FAA employees use sick leave at a rate higher than other federal employees (No kidding- I wonder why THAT is...)

Anyway, it USED to be anyone with a doctor's appointment would take the day off with sick leave.

Now, it has become a "business plan item" to reduce the amount of sick leave taken. One of the "pay for performance" items.

Now, the managers are saying that if you only have ONE doctor's appointment, you can only get up to four hours off with sick leave. Anything more than that, and you have to take half a day of annual, and half a day of sick leave.

In one office, the manager has decided that you only get sick leave for the ACTUAL TIME you are sitting in the doctor's office. Doctor's appointment at 10:30? You get to take from 10:30 till 11:30 for sick leave for the doctor's appointment, and all the rest of the day must be annual if you are not working.

I love our employer!
They'd rather pay you the 40% I guess. Suits me fine. Nice retirement bonus.

[Rustynutt]

Guess being a low paid DOD employee isn't all that bad, some real horror stories here.
Over 24 years of service, and don't think S/L balance has ever been over 100 hours. In short, hired in Jan 3rd, 1984. Could have signed in before, but no one had the mind to help out about the CSRS/FERS change over in personnel. Was a few years later I learned what that pain in my butt was.

Been a single parent since the boy was 3, had to take off every time he got a jew jew bead stuck in his nose. Single parent=lots of sick leave.

I race motorcycles off road. Since 1983 I've had 11 surgeries anywhere from 100 stitches to close up small lacerations, torn shoulders and knees, tendon reattachment, hernia, compound fractures and a couple of small amputations (no, not that!).

I've came into work in splints, wraps, cast, crutches, wheelchairs, and even once with my ulna sticking an inch out of my arm because it was too swollen to do surgery on. I have spinal stonosis, a couple of compressed disk, arthritis, sciatica, and severe tinitas. Recently half my left hand went almost completely numb, been that way since early May now.

I spend a lot of time modeling at work, keyboard, cranking handles and turning wrenches. Management wants me to document what I do so they can make a decision if it’s work related. Guess my work leaves a good impression, but only when it bails their arse out of an impossible situation, or puts project funds into the DPA.

Surprisingly, it's the tinitas that is the worst, drives me near insanity at times, at least I need my space, especially at work. I live for vicodine, but rum and an inversion table have to do the job most of the time, after hours of course, and never driving. I know that most will say it's my own doing, but am proud of pulling through this far in a vicinity that only has a small medical clinic, where cutting of any kind must be performed a hundred miles away, with a healthy percentage of the cost coming out of pocket as available FEHB in this area is extremely poor, and few medical professionals being actual providers.

Yes, I could just get a desk job, but where is the fun in that. I've given a huge portion of my career to the government, worked through both great and terrible managers. I fix coffee pots, free gyros, CCD's, can make you a tail hook for your Jump Jet, exploit assets, properly document the work, manage moderate sized projects and personnel, design prescription optics and get to blow crap up. I even make parts for the branch heads Harley, under duress of course. I am however opinionated against stupidity (racing aside), and a pain in the ass. I'm not narrowly scoped, so to speak. Wouldn’t make a good FAA or DC employee. I don't fit into any one category, over paid according to management (GS 11/12, actually DEMO project DT-3).

I am sure to burn every hour of use or loose sick leave OPM puts into my account. I've never been tied to the "3 day rule", sometimes get around to calling in, sometimes not. I'm lucky in that respect in that I manage most of my own time and work load with the golden “lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part” rule. Be it annual or sick leave, it does however always go on my time card, something that can't be said for most of the local managers, I'm quite sure.

I don't see any big change coming here before retirement. My current manager just got his DP-4 (GS-14?), and has become increasing more anal about my disposition as it reflects on him I guess. All I can say is, they will be glad to be rid of me I'm sure, make room for the hundreds of GS-5's and 8’s their hiring in right out of 4 to 6 year tenures of college, promising them the world if they stay. I look at them and think, was I ever that gullible. When they look at me, I have no idea what they wonder. Two-thirds speak little or broken English, so likely we wouldn’t understand each other anyway.

But this is about sick leave use and abuse. Some of the crap I've had to do is similar to a mine hunt with a piece of rebar. I'm crazy enough to try some stuff, and get this, it's because I don't want anyone else to get hurt. Honestly. I seriously doubt that the facility director, sitting in his office not 50 feet away would walk out the door if the laboratory roof blew off because some dimwit range employee brought too much explosive into the building. Wow, I was about to get too personal here. But what the heck, are they going to fire me? Don't get me wrong, I love the work I do, but not all the sheep are running in the same direction here, some get a better price for their wool than others, and some, well, you know what else sheep are good for, and there are lots of wolves upstairs.

Abuse sick leave? Never, can't do it. It's a benefit for as long as you live, or if you’re lucky enough to reach retirement.

Been off since September 7th on vacation. Two weeks comp time, two weeks annual leave. Girl friend from Holland stayed the whole time. We spent two weeks in the Sierras, one week on the beach, and the other around the house. I’m now officially engaged after 20 years of being single. I guess that might make me a little bias here having to report back to duty after such a time. I haven't even looked at the 20 emails forwarded to my account the entire time. Life this month has been good, and it's going to get a whole lot better in about 5 years.

Retirement is going to be awesome!

[FundSurfer]

I'm FERS and look at S/L as cheap long term care insurance. I'll usually take A/L instead of S/L. Because I'm FERS, I expect to change that behavior as I get closer to retirement. I expect that as more FERS folks begin getting closer to retirement it will become more obvious that the government should make changes to keep people from burning a lot of S/L the last couple years of work. I expect this will be a BIG problem for the government since it isn't uncommon to have 2000 plus hours by retirement. It really would not cost the government as much to let FERS employees put S/L toward retirement time in service since the annuity is 1/3 of civil service retirement. I'd expect them to make that switch in the next 5-10 years but not till it is really becomming a problem.

The funny thing is that if you take the time as sick leave, you get paid full time equivalent plus you get the time towards time in service. Yes, you will need to do some documentation but government employees get the best training in the world on how to work the system. Job stress is fairly easy to document and hassling me about S/L will add to the stress level. It is just a matter of finding the right shrink. Might take months of time on the beach to fully recover from the stress....

[Bullitt]

Couldn't agree more Surfer. The writing is on the wall. This is going to be an enormous problem for the Gov't when the FERS employees begin to get closer to retirement. Some Oldtimers in my agency have retired a year early by cashing in sick time. Another guy retired a few months ago with military years and managed to use up ALL of his sick leave. I'm strongly against using up all sick leave because it's just not right. But then again it's also not right to reward the righteous in the end.

[PonyBoy]

My Dad retired from the Treasury Dept w/3000+ hours of sick leave. After making the calculations for the added 1.7% per year he would have to live for another 60 years past retirement to collect the worth of the total amount.
He gave me the advice to get about 1040 or the equivalent to 6 months saved up. He figured if you ever do need to use more than the six months of sick leave you probably wont be back. And remember the whole time you are using your leave you are still accruing LS and LA.

[Show-me]

I'm FERS and look at S/L as cheap long term care insurance. I'll usually take A/L instead of S/L. Because I'm FERS, I expect to change that behavior as I get closer to retirement. I expect that as more FERS folks begin getting closer to retirement it will become more obvious that the government should make changes to keep people from burning a lot of S/L the last couple years of work. I expect this will be a BIG problem for the government since it isn't uncommon to have 2000 plus hours by retirement. It really would not cost the government as much to let FERS employees put S/L toward retirement time in service since the annuity is 1/3 of civil service retirement. I'd expect them to make that switch in the next 5-10 years but not till it is really becomming a problem.

The funny thing is that if you take the time as sick leave, you get paid full time equivalent plus you get the time towards time in service. Yes, you will need to do some documentation but government employees get the best training in the world on how to work the system. Job stress is fairly easy to document and hassling me about S/L will add to the stress level. It is just a matter of finding the right shrink. Might take months of time on the beach to fully recover from the stress....

Very well said. Thank you!

[SkyPilot]

Couldn't agree more Surfer. The writing is on the wall. This is going to be an enormous problem for the Gov't when the FERS employees begin to get closer to retirement. Some Oldtimers in my agency have retired a year early by cashing in sick time. Another guy retired a few months ago with military years and managed to use up ALL of his sick leave. I'm strongly against using up all sick leave because it's just not right. But then again it's also not right to reward the righteous in the end.

I'll leave an hour on the books out of respect for your feelings :D.

[Bullishreturn]

Here is the 2004 study done by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) that shows that FERS employees use considerably more sick leave going into retirement eligible years than CSRS, and offering recommendations to make changes to the program.

http://www.opencrs.cdt.org/rpts/RL32596_20040922.pdf

Unfortunately, Congress didn't do anything about it.

I understand OPM is now working on another, similar report, that is due out sometime in 2008.

All you FERS employees who are close to being retirement eligible, please feel free to burn that up to make the numbers show why they should pay us for sick leave balances, ok?

[camper65]

Here is the 2004 study done by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) that shows that FERS employees use considerably more sick leave going into retirement eligible years than CSRS, and offering recommendations to make changes to the program.

http://www.opencrs.cdt.org/rpts/RL32596_20040922.pdf

Unfortunately, Congress didn't do anything about it.

I understand OPM is now working on another, similar report, that is due out sometime in 2008.

All you FERS employees who are close to being retirement eligible, please feel free to burn that up to make the numbers show why they should pay us for sick leave balances, ok?

I'll try my BEST!

[pogo]

I'll try my BEST! or maybe bet they will give us cash back on our sick leave and start to save it--NAH

[Bullishreturn]

From today's "Federal Times":

(Who says they don't read TSPTALK?)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Get paid for unused sick leave?
By AMY DOOLITTLE
October 29, 2007

One lawmaker is readying a bill that would compensate employees covered under the Federal Employees Retirement System for their unused sick leave.

How much would be paid for unused sick leave is not yet clear. But federal managers hope the change will keep employees from taking excessive sick leave as they approach retirement.

Such sick leave abuse cost the government $68 million in lost productivity in the year ended March 30, 2006, an August Congressional Research Service report says.

“It just doesn’t make sense to carry this on where you’re having your most senior employees taking large swaths of time off at the end of their careers,” said Rep. James Moran, D-VA., who is drafting the bill. “It’s a waste of valuable talent.”

Moran said he hopes to introduce a bill by Thanksgiving that would pay FERS retirees for some percentage of their unused sick leave. He says the bill will attract broad support in Congress and will save the government millions in lost productivity.

One favored option, according to Moran’s staff, would pay 10 percent of the hourly rate of a retiree’s high-three salary — the average of the employee’s highest salaries over three consecutive years — for any accumulated sick leave balance above 500 hours.

Heath Bumgardner, a Moran staff member, said no decision had been reached, however, on the exact formula for the proposed legislation.

“Our next step is to sit down with experts at OPM and give them a couple of proposals and see how they would project out based on current demographics and future demographics,” Bumgardner said. “In the end, we think there’s a way that this can save the government money.”

The benefit will likely include a cap on individual payments and it would not be retroactive, he said.
Employees covered by FERS get no benefit for unused sick leave once they retire. In contrast, employees covered by the old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) apply unused sick leave to their length of service calculations, increasing the value of their retirement annuity.

Not surprisingly FERS-covered employees typically have only half as much accumulated sick leave as CSRS-covered employees.

And the problem of lost productivity will get worse with time as more FERS-covered employees approach retirement. As of March, more than 1.2 million federal employees were covered by FERS, and 352,000 by CSRS, the Congressional Research Service report says. Officials estimate all federal employees will be in FERS by 2014. Employees who started working in 1984 or later are covered by FERS.

Dean Johnson, who manages the Social Security Administration office in Missoula, Mont., supports Moran’s proposal. He told of one employee who, after 30 healthy and reliable years on the job, began calling in sick at least once a week. Shortly after Johnson asked for an explanation, the employee announced her retirement. There had been no illness.

“After realizing she was going to lose all of the well-earned sick leave, she decided to burn as much as she could get away with before leaving,” Johnson said. “She felt she was being shortchanged.”

Another Social Security Administration manager, who asked that her name not be used, said she plans to retire next year. Despite 400 hours of unused sick leave, however, she will not be calling in sick.

“My work ethic and job duties keep me from abusing my sick leave, although it is very frustrating knowing I’ve worked hard to save leave but won’t be compensated for it,” she said.

Tom Burger, president of the Professional Managers Association, said members will likely be happy with Moran’s plan.

“Many of my members have expressed their frustration with the current system,” he said. “The bottom line is if you don’t use it, you lose it, and many people just won’t do that.”

Five federal manager groups — called the Government Managers Coalition — are working with Moran to make sure the fix is satisfactory to feds. That coalition — made up of the Senior Executives Association, Federal Managers Association, Federal Aviation Administration Managers Association, National Council of Social Security Management Associations and Professional Managers Association — advocated a plan in 2006 that would allow FERS employees to apply a portion of their unused leave toward a discount on their post-retirement health insurance premiums.

The coalition supports the Moran proposal, depending on what maximum cap is placed on the payments, said Rick Warsinskey, president of the Social Security council.

“We thought [the proposal] had a lot of potential,” he said. “We have some questions about the cap and how attractive it would be. … Our general feeling is that it has to be something that people would actually be willing to use to start saving their sick leave.”

When contacted, OPM had no comment on the proposal.

Source: http://www.federaltimes.com

[charmed855]

I'm glad I haven't "abused" it over the years. That might be another $10k-$20k in my pocket at retirement, God willing.

[Show-me]

10%, I don't think so. Quit trying to low ball us.

[The Great Pumpkin]

Most corporations have lumped annual and sick leave together into personal leave. Also many will automatically cash out the employee for accumulated leave over a certain amount. They do not want employees accumulating 6 months of leave and the taking it off during major projects. If you think sick leave is not guaranteed then you need to work for a company that values production and project completion deadlines. If they could afford to do without them that long they wouldn't have hired them. The fact is that the govt expects supervisors to take the hit and operate without the employee while they are off. Any leave they do not take prior to retirement is gravy for them. They never enact rules that positively impact employees. If you tell me you want to pay me .10 on the dollar for time I have earned I will laugh at you. I work hard for all my leave. If they don't want to pay me for it then I will take it off. I am already saving them money by not leaving the project I am working on to take leave or be sick. Many times that I am sick I do not call in because of my work ethic or projects that I am working on. I save my time for a catastrophic illness that may or may not ever come. This directly benefits the gov't and places a burden on me and my family. I don't see the benefit to taking a 900% devaluation of my services and smiling. i think it is better to take aid time off towards the end of my career to get things settled over taking prison wages for the time I worked hard for.

[Show-me]

Twenty-four hours of sick leave equal one occurrence. I'll take the 100% until they figure it out. :)

[vic]

I gave back over a years worth of SL.

[Show-me]

I gave back over a years worth of SL.

I am very sorry and it makes me sick to my stomach to hear it. :(

[Intrepid_Investor]

I had anal glaucoma this morning. I just couldn't see my a** going to work today.

[Cortez]

I had anal glaucoma this morning. I just couldn't see my a** going to work today.

I have ARS from time to time - Alcohol Recovery Sickness.

I also schedule my doctor and dentist appts earlier in the afternoon to give me a couple hours off afterwards.

[vic]

then maybe you should take a sick day if it makes you sick. It makes me sick when people abuse it

[ATCJeff]

I'm glad I haven't "abused" it over the years. That might be another $10k-$20k in my pocket at retirement, God willing.

Did you read? 10 cents on the dollar. Wow, where do I sign up?

Let's see...I can goto the doctor and get a long term leave or I can stay at work and the Gov't will pay 10 cents on the dollar. Hmmm

I guess I'm lucky. The FAA forces us to take sick leave if we take any medication they determine might cause a risk while working planes. About the only thing we can take and still work is asprin.

[nnuut]

I think it should count as longevity just like CSRS! Why not, cost them too much money? Crooks!:nuts:

[FundSurfer]

Example payout from the Federal Times article:

Janet has a high-three salary of $100,000 and 1000 hours of unused sick leave. Dividing $100,000 by a 2087-hour work year translates to an hourly rate of $47.92. Ten percent of that would be $4.79. The number of hours she would be compensated for is 1000 minus 500, or 500. Her payout would be $4.79 multiplied by 500 hours, which equals $2,395.

....

I seriously doubt this will provide the altered behavior that they are hoping for. Especially since they are going to likely put a cap on the amount.

This amount is even less than adding the accumulated time to your time in service calculation. Even though FERS annuity is 2-3 times less than CSRS.

[Frixxxx]

Example payout from the Federal Times article:

Janet has a high-three salary of $100,000 and 1000 hours of unused sick leave. Dividing $100,000 by a 2087-hour work year translates to an hourly rate of $47.92. Ten percent of that would be $4.79. The number of hours she would be compensated for is 1000 minus 500, or 500. Her payout would be $4.79 multiplied by 500 hours, which equals $2,395.

....

I seriously doubt this will provide the altered behavior that they are hoping for. Especially since they are going to likely put a cap on the amount.

This amount is even less than adding the accumulated time to your time in service calculation. Even though FERS annuity is 2-3 times less than CSRS.

Dead on Fundsurfer..We FERS employees are confounded by the out-going CSRS employees....But, to tell you the truth, I've seen a few CSRS guys come in when they should've been at home. I think that with the current system, the sick will stay home and be sick.:cool:

[Show-me]

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?sid=1308836&nid=22

December 13, 2007 - 2:00am


Had your flu shot this year? Are you exercising regularly, eating healthy? Well that's great -- but it may not help if you are in the majority Federal Retirement System and are even thinking about retiring.

Great minds who track socioligical trends, monitor possible epidemics, that sort of thing, are busy trying to connect the dots on what appears to be a growing problem.

Call it the FERS Flu.

The issue: Sick leave use among many previously disgustingly healthy civil servants appears to jump dramatically in the 12 month period before they retire.

There are a number of possible reasons for this. They include the natural aging process -- new viruses in the workplace -- a pre-retirement form of depression that lowers immunity. Some even think that once it is known someone is retiring that individual becomes a lame duck at the office. He or she is no longer in the loop. Or is not considered for promotion or training because they are self-proclaimed short-timers.

There is one other clue.

Most of the suddenly-sick employees are under the newer Federal Employees Retirement System. FERS covers virtually everybody hired after December 31st, 1983. FERS was designed to replace the old Civil Service Retirement System. CSRS is the best retirement plan in the nation for people who spend a full career (30 or more years) with the same employer -- Uncle Sam.

But most people who come to work for the government (2/3rds) do not make it a full career. They spend time with a federal agency, then move to a job in the private sector. Or work in the private sector and join government later in their working life.

FERS was designed to be portable by giving employees a very generous 401(k) plan, with a 5 percent government match. Those who leave government can transfer their money out of the Thrift Savings Plan into a new company's 401(k) plan if they like. And FERS employees get full Social Security coverage. Their civil service benefit (for which they pay less than CSRS employees) is not as generous as the CSRS formula.

There is one other significant difference between CSRS and FERS.

At the end of their careers, CSRS workers can apply the accumulated unused sick leave toward retirement. That can give them months, in some cases years, of "extra" service. That extra service time can boost their civil service annuity (which is fully indexed to inflation) for life. It's a good deal and Congress did that to cut down on what investigators said was something similar to what is happening now. It appeared that many long-time, previously healthy employees were using their sick leave rather than losing it. So the system was changed.

While medical and scientific types pursue the possible biological or psychological causes of FERS Flu, pragmatists are looking at another cause and another potential cure. Coud it be, they wonder, that because they are under a use-it-or-lose it sick leave system, FERS employees decide to use it before they lose it? Could it be that simple? And if so, is there a cure?

Maybe.

There are a number of ideas being considered. Some think the solution would be for Congress to authorize some kind of compensation -- a lump sum payment or credit toward retirement. Once the proposal is finalized (next year) it will then have to go through the regular legislaltive process.

Postal Buyout Rumor Postal clerks in the Los Angeles area are being given the option to retire early. But the American Postal Workers Union says no financial incentives, such as a buyout or an enhanced retirement formula, go with the deal. This may be the source, at least this year, of the SuperBuyout Rumor in yesterday's column. To check it out, click here (http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=7).

[Show-me]

Cough, cough, cough. :D

[Silverbird]

:p Dr., I have this eye problem. I can't see why I can't carry over my sick leave into retirement, or even donate it to someone who needs it. I think this condition is known as "FERS". Can you write me a note?

[Show-me]

http://federaltimes.com/index.php?S=3255567

Sick leave plan falls short, manager groups say
By AMY DOOLITTLE
December 17, 2007

How much money is enough to persuade a federal employee not to abuse his sick leave benefit? Five thousand dollars? Ten thousand?
That’s the question in play now as federal manager groups, congressional staffs and the administration try to fashion a bill aimed at preventing feds who are approaching retirement from taking unused sick leave when they are not sick.

After two months of wrangling, Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va., floated a draft bill that would pay up to $5,000 to feds for their unused sick leave. The benefit would help only those in the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), who currently get no compensation for their unused sick leave when they retire. Employees under the older Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) are compensated for unused sick leave, and as a result, have far more unused sick leave accumulated when they retire.

But last week several management groups criticized the draft bill, saying it doesn’t compensate FERS-covered employees enough. They called on Moran to raise the cap to $10,000 and to pay a higher rate of compensation — 15 percent of hourly pay instead of the current 10 percent — for unused sick leave that exceeds 1,000 hours.

“Does $5,000 present enough of an incentive for employees to conserve their sick leave? I’m not sure it does,” said Jessica Klement, government affairs director at the Federal Managers Association, speaking on behalf of a coalition of government managers groups.

The legislation Moran proposed would compensate FERS employees 10 percent of the hourly rate of their high-three salary — the average of the employee’s highest salaries over three consecutive years — for accumulated sick leave in excess of 500 hours, with a $5,000 pay cap. As drafted, the benefit would not be retroactive.

“This is a good government management issue — your employee is not there and they are not getting their work done and, without an incentive, they have no reason to stay,” Klement said.

Sick leave abuse cost the government an estimated $68 million in lost productivity in the year ended March 30, 2006, an August Congressional Research.

more at link

[Show-me]

Deal reached on bill to compensate feds for unused sick leave

By STEPHEN LOSEY
January 29, 2008

A draft bill that would compensate some retiring federal employees for unused sick leave is getting sweetened.

Retiring employees under the Federal Employees Retirement System would get up to $10,000 in compensation under the latest version of a bill drafted by Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va., the Federal Managers Association said Monday. Moran’s previous draft bill had capped that at $5,000.

Moran spokesman Austin Durrer confirmed that the latest draft of the bill contained the $10,000 provision, and said that it likely will be introduced in February or March.

Employees under the Federal Employees Retirement System currently receive no compensation for their unused sick leave when they retire. The bill is meant to discourage them from abusing their sick leave benefits as they near the end of their careers. The Congressional Research Service has said sick leave abuse costs the federal government about $68 million a year.

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Employees under the older Civil Service Retirement System are compensated for unused sick leave, and as a result have far more unused sick leave when they retire.

FMA and other management organizations urged Moran to raise the compensation limit, saying $5,000 would not be enough to discourage sick leave abuse. The groups also wanted employees to receive 15 percent of the hourly rate of their three highest salaries — more than the 10 percent Moran’s bill would provide — but that rate will remain unchanged.

FMA government affairs director Jessica Klement said her organization is happy with the compromise.

“This should provide employees enough incentive to conserve their sick leave,” Klement said. “But we hope the cost of the payout doesn’t exceed the cost of the problem.”

Klement said the Congressional Budget Office cannot analyze the bill’s costs until it is formally introduced.

[nnuut]

Why not let it count on there service years towards retirement like the CSRS? If they can cash it in, CSRS should be able to cash in their unused Sick Leave also.:nuts:

[Silverbird]

We've got a different version of the phenomena at my Agency. Got one person I know about who needs multiple bypass type surgeries still working in order to use up his sick leave since he's not going to get compensation for it if he retires. It's nice to have an experienced guy still here BUT not good for him to still be working! Hope this doesn't get to be a trend.

[Idaho Dave]

By the time I retire, $10,000 will be the cost of a new pair of shoes. For those who got in in '87 or '88, it could make a little difference, but I have 25 years before I'm eligible for full retirement---that is if they don't change it on me before then.

[Callme_CO]

I've read every post on this tread and i'm confused how abusing sick leave (if you can do that) makes people sick. I guess it's the the place i work for.

Most people in other departments, branches, or whatever can schedule an A/L day here or there. Not I. I mean I should but then that would mean more work for the admin LT. and we couldn't have that. I've tried scheduling a day of A/L anywhere from one month to six months ahead of time. Did i get denied...no..i'd have to get a response to get denied. So then comes S/L The one assured leave i have that they really can't say no to at the time.

Now don't get me wrong i've never taken sick leave for a day that should have been A/L. I went my whole first year with only taking 2 days of A/L infact i've been there a year and a half and only 2 days of A/L. My son was born 6 months ago and since then i've burned about all my sick leave saved on him excluding two days i've been in the hospital for myself. And what do i come back to???? Lt's and the captain looking at me like i abused S/L I worked so much over time the first year my base pay was 37k and i cleared 55K but i take two days off for a sickness and i look bad. You can't abuse sick leave especially where i work. (BOP). I finally am scheduled 2 weeks of annual leave in august which means i will have been with the BOP 2 years before i had any annual leave.

With all that anybody who thinks i should feel bad for taking sick-leave when i deserve to take it is full of S**t.

::steps off soapbox::

[JOVARN]

Under FERS VA Nurses can take their un-used SL and put that toward their retirement to reduce the number of days they spend on the job. That was initiated as a result of addressing the nursing shortage. I don’t know about you but I want my co-worker to call in when sick, and if you offer this plan to all, many will take advantage of it and come to work sick. Again they try to solve a problem by creating one. The deal with the Nurses has not reduced the end of Gov life leave abuse. Some of the Nurses feel empowered at the end of their career as you often hear what can they do to me?

[JOVARN]

I am a Union official and on my job they thing nothing of placing employees on SL restriction. You cant have it both ways

[JOVARN]

typo k

[JOVARN]

use it now use it later they will use it

[Show-me]

http://federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=22&sid=1352927

[roskopfm]

Why not let it count on their service years towards retirement like the CSRS? If they can cash it in, CSRS should be able to cash in their unused Sick Leave also.:nuts:

yeah, lets see you guyes get twice the pension we get, what do we get in return a small 5% TSP, and a lower inflation increase in retirement. I would take your postion anytime. Let us FERS got something in return that CERS does, why are we always second class employees?

[Aggie76]

below copied from Government Executive:

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=40602&dcn=todaysnews

"House backs new FERS sick leave policyJuly 31, 2008
The House passed a measure Wednesday giving federal employees hired since 1984 the opportunity to get credit for unused sick leave in their pension calculations.
Currently, employees covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (generally those hired in 1984 or later) do not earn no credit toward retirement for unused sick leave. Those under the older Civil Service Retirement System do receive such credit.
The difference has led to a situation in which, according to Congressional Research Service reports issued last year and in 2004, FERS employees use substantially more sick leave than those in CSRS as they approach retirement.
The measure that passed the House was included in a larger bill (H.R. 1108) called the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act.
Federal employees' and managers' organizations have long backed the sick leave measure.
"This is a very welcome and important step toward correcting some of the disparity in treatment of employees who often work side-by-side," said Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union.
Federal employees in both FERS and CSRS receive 13 days of sick leave annually and may carry over unlimited amounts of leave from year to year. It's only in retirement that the differences between the two systems come to light."

[Show-me]

Still get the full amount for sick leave taken. They are low balling us.

[pogo]

I think you have to have 250hrs of sick leave before you get your money for your sick leave(when you retire) and then you only get around 25% of the pay. not to sure on the %. i never look into it but the rumor is, it better to buy ins. to cover your sick pay,my thoughts are you're only on this earth once, use your sick leave i am a fers with 5yrs to go

[luv2read]

I have 20 years in and 18 hrs sick leave due to an extended illness and caring for relatives. Use it when you get closer to retirement, when you leave, you lose it. I doubt if any new sick leave legislation is going to pass for at least 4 years, it costs too much and the government is broke. It looks for ways to suck us dry, not give us more. Accumulate the annual, at least you get a lump sum for it or the newest thing, "terminal leave". More agencies are going with that to keep experienced people on as long as they can.

[squalebear]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=173654&postcount=960

I BELIEVE YOU'LL FIND THE LOWER PORTION OF THIS TOBACCO BILL
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. "UNUSED SICK LEAVE BENEFITS FOR FER
RETIRIES

[luv2read]

SB,

Do you have a link to the bill? TIA.:)

[squalebear]

SB,

Do you have a link to the bill? TIA.:)

yES,,,GO TO MY THREAD

[pogo]

http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php?S=3652146 here is the article, my comments was about the old bill not this new bill.

[James48843]

For a copy of the bill, go to http://www.thomas.gov, then search for

H.R.1108

Here is what is says:

H.R.1108

Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)
SEC. 407. CREDIT FOR UNUSED SICK LEAVE.


(a) In General- Section 8415 of title 5, United States Code, is amended--



(1) by redesignating the second subsection (k) and subsection (l) as subsections (l) and (m), respectively; and




(2) in subsection (l) (as so redesignated by paragraph (1))--





(A) by striking `(l) In computing' and inserting `(l)(1) In computing'; and






(B) by adding at the end the following:




`(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1), in computing an annuity under this subchapter, the total service of an employee who retires on an immediate annuity or who dies leaving a survivor or survivors entitled to annuity includes--



`(A) for an employee who retires within 3 years after the date of enactment of this paragraph, 3/4 of the days, and




`(B) for an employee who retires after 3 years after the date of enactment of this paragraph, the days



of unused sick leave to his credit under a formal leave system, except that these days will not be counted in determining average pay or annuity eligibility under this subchapter. For purposes of this subsection, in the case of any such employee who is excepted from subchapter I of chapter 63 under section 6301(2)(x)-(xiii), the days of unused sick leave to his credit include any unused sick leave standing to his credit when he was excepted from such subchapter.'.


(b) Exception From Deposit Requirement- Section 8422(d)(2) of title 5, United States Code, is amended by striking `section 8415(k)' and inserting `paragraph (1) or (2) of section 8415(l)'.


(c) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply with respect to annuities computed based on separations occurring on or after the date of the enactment of this Act.

Passed the House of Representatives July 30, 2008.
Attest:
Clerk.
110th CONGRESS 2d Session H. R. 1108
AN ACT
To protect the public health by providing the Food and Drug Administration with certain authority to regulate tobacco products.

[luv2read]

Check squalebear's thread today...we discussed it most of this morning.:D