Virginia Tech Shootings

[Griffin]

From what I have gathered, a disgruntled boyfriend managed to shoot two kids at Virginia Tech, then proceeded to go on a suicide slaughter a couple hours later resulting in 31 more deaths and an additional 15 wounded. According to the articles I have read, this was accomplished with a couple of handguns.

The human casulty is enormous and I don't want to be callous by discussing the politics of this event, my prayers go out those families. I'm curious as to what you all think about the fact that this was done with handguns.

My personal feeling is that these incidents are extrememly rare and don't justify a society armed to the teeth, but in light of the terrorist threat and the growing gang violence in this country, this presents a real quandry. We have seen that a person who wants to kill lots of people does not really need the time and skills necessary to make a crude bomb. One man (and it's always a young man, DC snipers, Amish school houses etc. in the London bombings, they are young terrorists but the motivation is the same - it's angry young men) with a couple of small weapons can do as much damage as a suicide bomber. I live in a part of the country where gun violence has reached an epic proportions and even in the suburbs, most robberies are committed at gun point. The problem being that once a person commits one murder, they become more inclined "to go out in blaze of glory".

Do we react to this? and how?

[SkyPilot]

Will prohibiting guns keep criminals or terrorists from having them?

[Spaf]

Do we react to this? and how?

Practices and policies are available from the government to mitigate the problem. However, they are on the back burner.

Over 20 years ago I transfered to Oklahoma City//Edmond, Oklahoma.... where a disgruntled post office worker went on a rampage, anyone remember???

Well our agency came out with guidelines for "Violence in the Workplace"! Same, same schools, etc.


http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/workplaceviolence/index.html

Government wants to know how many violations were given out, not how many lectures were made about violence in the workplace.

(Tongue in cheek) Griffin...Not important to the folks we elected!

PS: Controversial..Yes!

[wv-girl]

Yes, I remember that. I have family in Edmond and elsewhere in OK. Scary times when kids get their hands on guns. Don't know the answers tho, just say a lot of prayers for the victims.

[Griffin]

Will prohibiting guns keep criminals or terrorists from having them?

I don't think so. On the other hand, considering the argument for everyone carrying a gun - if someone is not smart enough to meet the requirements to obtain a gun permit , then I don't want their dumb butt trying to save me either. Also, I fear armed road rage almost as much as the gangs.

Lets say we going to arm a certain percentage of the population (say a target of 5%) that would give a high enough density that someone would likely be armed in any given group if something like this occurrs. Do we arm teachers, lawyers, doctors, military, fireman? etc....men (or women)over the age of 40 with no history of felonies...this is starting to sound like Michael Criteon's single male theory. Is this a reasonable approach?

[Birchtree]

Texas has a no limit or restriction carry law. This came about because someone drove a truck through a restraunt window and started shooting people. If some one in the restaurant was carrying fewer people would have died. So the criminal element in Texas is very careful when they pull heat because they could be meeting heat in return. Whenever I go to Tampa I always take heat with me - you never know when you may be called upon to save your own life or someone elses. Florida has even changed their laws to be more victim friendly - you can now stand and fight without fear of stupid liberal prosecution. I don't know the full situation in the Virginia shootings but I would surmise that if some of the men had rushed the freak 22 would probably be alive. Instead they all died because of inaction.

[rokid]

Texas has a no limit or restriction carry law. This came about because someone drove a truck through a restraunt window and started shooting people. If some one in the restaurant was carrying fewer people would have died. So the criminal element in Texas is very careful when they pull heat because they could be meeting heat in return. Whenever I go to Tampa I always take heat with me - you never know when you may be called upon to save your own life or someone elses. Florida has even changed their laws to be more victim friendly - you can now stand and fight without fear of stupid liberal prosecution. I don't know the full situation in the Virginia shootings but I would surmise that if some of the men had rushed the freak 22 would probably be alive. Instead they all died because of inaction.

You'll be happy to know you can openly carry a gun in Virginia. You can also get a permit to carry a concealed weapon for $10.

Consequently, Mr. Seung-Hui could have walked into the classrom carrying both guns and no one could have done anything until he opened fire - at least based on Virginia law. Hopefully, VTech has a code of conduct to prevent "packing" in the classroom.

[Spaf]

What should have been done!

All universities, schools and even day care centers should have an emergency action plan. The plan should cover all recognized emergencies i.e., tornados, fires, violence, etc. Though the law may not specifically require one, as laws are generally minimum and behind times. The hazard is real, we have a history of these incidents that will extend into the future.

Safety laws in Virginia are administered by the state, see http://www.osha.gov/oshdir/va.html

A regulation for an emergency action plan can be found at http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9726

The FBI and OSHA have plenty of documents and readings that cover workplace violence.

The initial warning goes to a trained duty person, who activates the plan.

Was the plan in Virginia any good..No it wasn't.

Question: If a tornado is approaching your home. Do you dial 911 first?

[SkyPilot]

Virginia Tech's Emergency Action Plan

http://www.ehss.vt.edu/Programs/OSD/Emergency%20Planning/01_introduction.htm

[Spaf]

Virginia Tech's Emergency Action Plan

http://www.ehss.vt.edu/Programs/OSD/Emergency%20Planning/01_introduction.htm

That just makes me more suspicious!.........:suspicious:

[VirginiaBob]

You'll be happy to know you can openly carry a gun in Virginia. You can also get a permit to carry a concealed weapon for $10.

Consequently, Mr. Seung-Hui could have walked into the classrom carrying both guns and no one could have done anything until he opened fire - at least based on Virginia law. Hopefully, VTech has a code of conduct to prevent "packing" in the classroom.

Since these guns were obtained illegally (the serial numbers were chiseled off), this is all a mute point.

Maybe the reason why this ended in so many deaths is because of the fact that the VT campus is a gun-free zone. Would he have attacked if the whole campus was packing?

[SkyPilot]

Notice he did not choose the ROTC building...

[Show-me]

Before you outlaw MY guns you better outlaw tobacco and alcohol. Compare the numbers there. It’s like having a seatbelt law in a state with no helmet law.

[Wrngway]

Would he have attacked if the whole campus was packing?

Quite frankly, I would feel even less safe if that were the case. He was a smart guy, but obviously nuts and out of touch with reality. I doubt this person would have even cared.

[VirginiaBob]

Quite frankly, I would feel even less safe if that were the case. He was a smart guy, but obviously nuts and out of touch with reality. I doubt this person would have even cared.

Whether he would have cared or not - no matter. The fact is he would have likely been taken down earlier.

[rokid]

Since these guns were obtained illegally (the serial numbers were chiseled off), this is all a mute point.
Maybe the reason why this ended in so many deaths is because of the fact that the VT campus is a gun-free zone. Would he have attacked if the whole campus was packing?

Actually, he bought both guns legally in Roanoke, Virginia. He filed off the serial numbers, but had the gun receipt in his wallet. Weird.


Maybe the reason why this ended in so many deaths is because of the fact that the VT campus is a gun-free zone. Would he have attacked if the whole campus was packing?

Are you kidding? Drunk/high college students packing guns? Guns in the classroom? Professors packing guns to protect themselves from the students? I wouldn't send my son to a university where everyone was packing.:cool:

[SkyPilot]

Mayor of Japanese city dies after being shot.

No one is "allowed" to pack in Japan... So much for gun laws...

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2007/04/17/japan_nagasaki_mayor_dies_after_being_shot_by_gang/

[Griffin]

Rokid, I think your absolutely correct, any place that attracts young people is always going to invite explosive situations, the last thing we need to do is add more fuel by arming the students (however, the professors?...that may not be such a bad idea - even if it is only with a rubber bullets, a tazer gun or something non-lethal). I live near a college town and get e-mail alerts from the University (which is a very good school in the suburbs) On average, I get an alert about some college kid getting robbed at gun-point (usually at night) about every three or four days. I remember college...I was broke...we got people running amuck with guns praying on college kids for ray-bans, a twenty dollar bill and bottle opener...and a lot of them do turn out to be college kids themselves. I think the universities football & basketball teams are responsible for the largest chunk of the violent crime - they get arrested about once a month. I bet the enrollment rate for Virginia Tech is down next year.


Are you kidding? Drunk/high college students packing guns? Guns in the classroom? Professors packing guns to protect themselves from the students? I wouldn't send my son to a university where everyone was packing.:cool:

[weatherweenie]

Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks

By Associated Press

BOULDER, Colo. - A University of Colorado student was arrested after making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.
During a class discussion of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, the student "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.
Several witnesses told investigators the student said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report. Witnesses "said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him," Wiesley said.
The student, identified by police as Max Karson of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution. He had a court appearance set for Wednesday afternoon.
His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son's free speech rights had been violated.
"I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to," he said.
University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about the student.
At Oregon's Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was "a fashion accessory" made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.

[rokid]

I bet the enrollment rate for Virginia Tech is down next year.

Griffin,

I hope not. VTech is a tremendous engineering school. Liberal Arts students may look elsewhere, e.g. University of Virginia, William and Mary, James Madison and George Mason. However, the best engineering students go to VTech.

This is like the third incident in the last 100 years in Montgomery County VA (Blacksburg, Radford, Roanoke). Unfortunately two of them took place this school year. In August, an escaped convict killed one or two law enforcement people.

Finally, I read in the Washington Post that the Korean community in Northern Virginia (52,000) is really upset about this incident. They've already offered support to the victim's families.

Terrible incident for everyone.:(