Thread: Government Motors

Originally Posted by James48843

You're kidding, right?

The Volt discussion has gone political. Right-wingers are bad-mouthing it, causing the production of this to become a punching bag. How do you think any Union can counter the right-wing politicization of the Volt?

""We did not develop the Chevy Volt to be a political punching bag," General Motors CEO Daniel Akerson testified before Congress in the same January hearing. "We engineered the Volt to be a technological wonder."

Dang James, settle down. I was asking about why the GM auto workers union, that owns a large portion of the company, would allow the laying off of it's employees. That's it, nothing more.

Wow, breathe...

arg-roadster.gif

Originally Posted by RealMoneyIssues

Dang James, settle down. I was asking about why the GM auto workers union, that owns a large portion of the company, would allow the laying off of it's employees. That's it, nothing more.

Wow, breathe...

The United Auto Workers (UAW) does not "own a large portion of the company." That is a myth.

The UAW's Medical trust fund owns a 10 percent share in the company. That doesn't even get the medical trust fund a seat on the board of directors. That is simply some shares of stock, which GM kicked in to help pay the pension medical benefits promised to workers in many years of contracts. Since GM could not pay what they owed, they gave the trust fund new company shares of stock for that fund. It's not the UAW who owns those shares- it's the GM retiree medical trust fund.


The United Auto Workers do not have any say in the day-to-day management of the company. The UAW workers build cars. Management plans, directs, forecasts, decides which models to build, and which factories the cars will be built in. While the UAW can voice it's opinion, it has no power to directly influence any decision.

See Fact check: Politicians make artful swerves on auto bailout - DailyHerald.com

It's absolutely irrelevant that Trumka visits the White House staff 2-3 times per week and speaks with them daily. It was not noticed by management that Waggoner was sacked, bondholders were told about the IRS, Henderson moved out, Whitacre moved on after ill chosen words....come on....the world knows the truth....

It is with great trepidation that I post this, since I like the Volt. But I was actually hoping that it's production was over. Then my Volt would be worth a $$$$FORTUNE$$$$!

I alway thought that the Volt was the most promising Electric/GAS car any maker had come up with, and it's really fast in the electric mode, but probably really weak in the gas mode, wing wing! Now the battery problem has disappointed everyone and that applies to all of the copycats. They have to assure that this tremendous bank of batteries is safe, and I don't think that has happened, remember the exploding laptops, can you imagine. ZAP!!!!!!!!!

Got to cure that battery problem!
March 2, 2012, 4:40 p.m. EST
GM to halt Volt production for five weeks: WSJ
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-...wsj-2012-03-02

Originally Posted by nnuut

GM to halt Volt production for five weeks: WSJ

That's so 30 seconds ago.

Originally Posted by James48843

The United Auto Workers (UAW) does not "own a large portion of the company." That is a myth.

The UAW's Medical trust fund owns a 10 percent share in the company. That doesn't even get the medical trust fund a seat on the board of directors. That is simply some shares of stock, which GM kicked in to help pay the pension medical benefits promised to workers in many years of contracts. Since GM could not pay what they owed, they gave the trust fund new company shares of stock for that fund. It's not the UAW who owns those shares- it's the GM retiree medical trust fund.

Leadership Overview

Fiduciary oversight of the Trust is provided by an 11-member Committee consisting of six (6) independent members and five (5) members appointed by the UAW. The Committee has the responsibility for designing and delivering medical benefits to eligible UAW retirees, surviving spouses and dependents. To provide these benefits, the Committee can use only the assets available in the Trust Fund. The Trust Fund has three separate accounts for each UAW retiree population of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler

Committee Biographies
I think I see the UAW leadership there... my eyesight is a little blurry...

Originally Posted by James48843

The United Auto Workers do not have any say in the day-to-day management of the company. The UAW workers build cars. Management plans, directs, forecasts, decides which models to build, and which factories the cars will be built in.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by James48843

While the UAW can voice it's opinion, it has no power to directly influence any decision.

Are you really that naive? You can say that publicly all you want, but I have personal experience in the manufacturing, auto, and energy industry that shows that to be untrue...

GM chief: "We got a second chance" - CBS News

U.S. taxpayers have recovered nearly half of their $50 billion investment in GM when the U.S. Treasury took a majority stake in the company back in 2009. The government still owns 500 million shares. And if it wants to sell and just break even, GM's stock will have to double in value from where it is today.

Can you imagine how long it would take to offload 500 million shares even if GM stock got to $54.34???
Look at what happens as Bill Gates offloads 20 million each quarter of his MS stock... 500 million, wow... We will be holding that "bag" for decades...

GM Close on 2/17/2012 - $27.17, double $54.34 => $27.17 Billion owed to the US Taxpayers

Originally Posted by nnuut

I alway thought that the Volt was the most promising Electric/GAS car any maker had come up with, and it's really fast in the electric mode, but probably really weak in the gas mode, wing wing! Now the battery problem has disappointed everyone and that applies to all of the copycats. They have to assure that this tremendous bank of batteries is safe, and I don't think that has happened, remember the exploding laptops, can you imagine. ZAP!!!!!!!!!

There's not enough time in life to address all criticisms, but at least the battery issue is an interesting one.

The Volt uses lithium-ion batteries.
1). Pure lithium has a problem with water:
2Li + 2H2O --> 2LiOH + H2 + heat
Not good.
2). Lithium-ion batteries have a problem of going into thermal runaway around 350F. Not good.

Lithium batteries were first pioneered as early as 1912; by 1970?, non-rechargables; and by 1991, Sony's first rechargable.
That's 100 years of development going into making these batteries safe; still, however, additional lessens were learned when there was a battery fire. This stuff fills books.

Anyway, back to the Volt. There were 2 battery fires as the result of NHTSA tests simulating a side impact and rollover. The fires did not break out until several hours to several days after the test and unattended. The reports I've read generally said that the coolant leaked and eventually created a short circuit. Maybe somewhat questionable, because lithium-ion batteries are circuit protected from external shorts (an internal fuse blows). Maybe it was just a weak short, enough to slowly heat things up, but not enough to blow the fuse. I think it took time for the coolant to form crystals which formed the short circuit.

Should I be concerned by this? Not really. The Volt's computers monitor the batteries temperature at all times, even when it's turned off. Coolant and fans are operated by computer whether you're driving, charging or leaving it set unattended. Maintenance issues are reported on displays and also go to "On-Star" who will notify you, or in the event of an accident, notify the emergency response teams. Chevy has provided the public fire department emergency response teams with procedures in how to discharge the batteries. Chevy will also respond to a Volt accident with its own team to make sure the batteries are discharged. To satisfy NHTSA, additional reinforcement is added in the battery tunnel. All this for a hazard that is extremely rare in the first place. I'm not sure if gasoline is as safe as this. Of course, if it happens to me, I'll sing a different tune.